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Dungeoneering: Skill or Minigame?


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18 replies to this topic

#1
MCsq2
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From RSWiki:

Around release, there was debate about whether the skill was really a skill or rather just a minigame (Activites). Many players felt that Dungeoneering did not meet certain requirements to fulfill the definition of being a skill. The reasons argued for this include the inability to take any items outside of the dungeons, the skill revolving around other skills and not integrating any game concepts outside of itself, or simply unmet expectations. Since Dungeoneering was in development for a long time - with the players aware of its development for many years of that time - much hype was built up (usually in the form of threads in the Future Updates forum). When Dungeoneering was finally released, it may not have been what some people had hoped for. This debate is still quite lively.


So, what do you think? Do you consider Dungeoneering to be a skill or minigame?

I personally consider this a minigame, due to the following reasons:
- It is near useless outside of Daemonheim.
- It gives reward tokens to trade in for rewards.
- It uses all skills, like Stealing Creation.
- You must join a party to start dungeoning.
- In the party interface, you must set up your dungeon.
- Items in the dungeon cannot be brought out.
- Similarly, you cannot bring items into the dungeon itself.
- On Complexity 6, there are puzzles you must solve, similar to most minigames.

But I have nothing against it being a skill, in fact I like it that way since it helps my total level and such. And it's fun too. :D

#2
Obtaurian
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In its current incarnation, I would call it Stealing Creation: Extreme Spelunking Edition, but I think it has tons of potential to be integrated into the rest of the game. I'm eagerly awaiting dungeoneering batch #2. Until then, I'm just going to enjoy it for what it is.

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#3
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mmhmm...this skill could be faught for on both sides, mainly because it can only be done in a certain location like other skills (construction/slayer), and you get all sorts of xp out of doing it (like slayer), however I'm siding with the skill=minigame side for the following reasons:

-the rewards are obtained via tokens, following such minigames as fist of guthix, castle wars, and even stealing creation
-you can get higher than lv99 in it, and the guide says you can even reach as high as lv120 for the trimmed cape, making it unlike all the other skills
-some of the rewards from this skill don't actually help you with the skill. The items you get from here can't be used to get xp for the skill, which forces you to do the same repetitive dungeons over and over.
-waiting rooms for a skill?...I don't think they'd do that to any other skills to make them "skill-like"...imagine waiting rooms with wc'ing
-No actual benefit for doing the skill: While some people may contradict this, lets compare it to other things. If you do quests, you tend to benefit off them, getting xp for skills, and access to better things. If you do skills such as combat/mage/range, you can become more powerful and have access to a more variety of things such as better spells, better armor, and better weopens. If you do dungeoneering, you don't exactly get anything out of it in the dungeons. All you get is dungeoneering xp, which, while that may be dandy, takes a hell of a lot of time to get.
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#4
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1) haha at extreme spelunking

2) I think its a minigame. Its sort of a cross between stealing creation and barrows.

Barrows = Go underground to fight stuff and get rewards
Stealing Creation = Use skills to some end in a multiplayer minigame where skillers can help fighters

Dungeoneering = Go underground to fight stuff and get rewards where skillers can help the fighters

#5
Albel
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1) haha at extreme spelunking

2) I think its a minigame. Its sort of a cross between stealing creation and barrows.

Barrows = Go underground to fight stuff and get rewards
Stealing Creation = Use skills to some end in a multiplayer minigame where skillers can help fighters

Dungeoneering = Go underground to fight stuff and get rewards where skillers can help the fighters

Thats actually a way to look at it. I want to say it's a skill, but sadly as of now I have to say a minigame. And it's a awesome minigame at that. I dont mind it's a skill, but I wish it had more to do with runescape other then it just being a skill.

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#6
krikke321
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It's in the skill-tab so it must be a skill.
That's good enough for me :rolleyes:
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#7
Atonisk
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Although I think it's more of a mini-game, I've never seen the comparison to stealing creation. At all >_< SC is a skills-oriented PVP collection mini-game, while dung is combat-based PVE co-op. The basic premises honestly couldn't be more different.

Plus it's not like there aren't precedents for absurdly self-contained skills that offer credit towards rewards, slaying being a prime example >_> You could easily argue that slaying is nothing more than a monster-hunting mini-game since the exp gain is regulated / limited, you get point-credits by task for unlocks/items/extra exp, and it also doesn't offer much in terms of unlocks. In fact, slaying's biggest content unlocks are the ability to fight monsters who have limited appeal out of slaying tasks and some that can only be fought while slaying.

#8
Kalafai
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I'd say it's more meso game, distilling the play of the macro game that is Runescape into a handy three course omelet.

#9
Da_rk_Slayer
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I feel that it's a minigame, but a very good one at that.
It feels like a minigame, and the exp like a number going towards the total tokens. It goes up to 120, it's a combination of other minigames, it can only be trained in one place, it only affects itself and the only rewards that can be taken out are extremely hard to get and require high dungeoneering, so it's got a very small area in which it can be trained.
Jagex have spent a lot of time on it, time well spent, it's awesome.
But I personally think it's a minigame.
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#10
qeltar
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Whatever it is, it needs to be completely redesigned.
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Featuring the Ultimate Guide to Dungeoneering -- everything you need to know to get the most of the new skill!
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#11
Fairness
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It's certainly a minigame. That said, it's potentially probably the best minigame in RuneScape so far. It just needs to be polished, and a bit redesigned so that gearing up has a bigger role and that games wouldn't consist of just rushing to the boss (with the exp rates adjusted accordingly).
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#12
MyCalmSkills
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In My Opinnion, Dungeoneering May Be Fun And A Great Adition To The Game, I Do Not Find That It Fits The Requirements To Be A Skill. Every Other Skill Has A Use And Contributes To The Game In One Form Or Another. Dungeoneering Simply Does Neither. In My Opinion Its A Minigame The Whole Way
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#13
AirWales
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From the RSOF Recent Update FAQ

"Isn’t Dungeoneering more of a minigame than a skill?"

No, it was always designed to be a skill. We agree that it’s more like a minigame than any other skill, but is that a bad thing?

There are plenty of traditional skills in the game already if you want “typical” content. Over the last few years we have tried to produce skills which are different from the rest of the game (Farming, Construction) and skills which have a big impact on the way you play the rest of the game (Slayer, Summoning). They are not like our older, classic skills.

With Dungeoneering, we have strayed even further from the concept of traditional skills, but we see that as a good design decision. The game NEEDED this sort of skill content, or we wouldn’t have added it.

Really, the “skill” category was the only thing in RS we felt was appropriate for it and we will not be changing this decision.



#14
Hedgehog
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I think that the best way to determine the status of Dungeoneering is to first define a minigame and a skill, then define what Dungeoneering is, in order to see where it belongs.

First of all, the defining characteristics of a minigame include player interaction, utilization of skills, experience or item based reward, and little repetition/grinding. The basis of a skill is that it can be trained alone, the ability to stand alone without using another skill (in most cases), can be trained to unlock new benefits (which aren't usually purchased), and has to be repeated over and over in order to be trained. Dungeoneering can be played in groups or alone, uses other skills during the process of training, has both expierence/item and benefits that are unlocked from training the skill (being able to bind more items is the only one I can think of off the top of my head), Dungeoneering is also repetitive and not repetitive at the same time; every dungeon is different, the chances of receiving the same dungeon twice is almost nil, but it's also repetitive in the sense that the changes are based less on the people playing the game and more on the game's engine.

This begs the conclusion that Dungeoneering is both a skill and a minigame, however, this is not the case. Dungeoneering is a skill because of the fact that you train it in order to unlock the rewards. You could make the case that by the time you have the points to buy any of the rewards, you will have surpassed the level needed for the item, but this is irrelevant. You need to unlock the ability to buy the item before you can buy it; unlike minigames such as castle wars, stealing creation, or fist of guthix, where you can buy the reward at any point; which is the major point where Dungeoneering diverges from being a minigame and becomes a real skill.

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#15
The_Avatar
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The whole dilemma with this debate is that there is no clear definition of a skill in Runescape. The whole skill may be structured like a mini-game, but its not like it has to fit some qualifications to be considered a skill. I will admit it seems like Jagex had been working on a fairly large mini-game and decided to label it as a skill to hype it up and/or get more people to play it. Who knows, if Castlewars or Stealing Creation were considered skills, you would probably see a great deal more players involved in them. I'm guessing this stemmed from the fact that Mobilizing Armies was such a huge failure. Even if something is terrible, you can get people to play it just by adding some incentive, in this case more levels towards ones total level. However, I quite enjoy Dungeoneering, and think it would have been popular had it been a skill or not.
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#16
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We just have to wait and see, shall we? I heard that they are developing a quest for dungeoneering.
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#17
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Most certainly a mini-game, as the majority of people have said above it uses all other skills and gives you tokens for items, the most important point being its useless outside of the area (excluding quests which are bound to follow).

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#18
IBeATank
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If there were other dungeons scattered around runscape, or various connection passages that required a dungeoneering level to access, much like short cuts with agility, I would considder it a skill, and Daemonheim would be a very well developed minigame, but as it stands at the moment, I have to agree that it is just a minigame.
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#19
quelmotz
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Whatever it is, it needs to be completely redesigned.


And how so?

Apparently no one's complaining about HUGE flaws in the game engine/design that warrant a complete overhaul.

The issue of F2P level 90+ combat players getting their EXP halved is not a significant flaw in the game design/engine. It's ridiculous, I agree, but I would hardly consider it as something that warrants a complete revamp of the skill.




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