Chaotic Rapier vs Longsword

[3hitm4g3u]

Rapier would definately be my first choice but OP severely underestimates CLS.

 

So you are saying that cls is better than rapier if you suck enough? Not the greatest advertisement for anyone to buy it, to be honest. And even by that logic, you will at some point suck little enough for rapier to be better and from then on, you've wasted 200k tokens. Also, as for most people the repair cost seems quite spicy(not that it is), most of the people who will be using these will not suck hard enough for cls to be better... So as a status report on this thread, can anyone think of places where the cls has a clear advantage over the rapier? because the opposite is true for a load of things. Only thing i can realistically think of is mithril dragons, as their defence is still a bit brisk(though i havn't tried with sup antifire yet).

 

Alot of RS players have a thing called a life.

[Articultural]

Note that he also had overloads. I'd be much more interested if he used super set or something. Even extremems are far off for me...then again, so is a chaotic weapon.

 

The general conclusion I'm getting from this is that Rapier > CLS unless your a relatively low level. "Relatively low level" is using people who have near maxed combat and extremes at their disposal. Anyone care to disagree with that?

 

He's 90 Attack so pots to 114 with Overloads, that's the same as a Super Attack at 95.

[timmmmm83]

So as a status report on this thread, can anyone think of places where the cls has a clear advantage over the rapier?

 

So...

 

Slayer: rapier (because of the low defence most slayer monsters have)

Godwars: longsword (high defence monsters)

PVP: maul (because of the KO ability)

 

Right? <_<

 

I only want to spend tokens on one weapon, so I truly hope this conclusion is false. :P

 

If only dungeoneering weapons were exchangeable just like castle wars armour... :roll:

[Obtaurian]

So as a status report on this thread, can anyone think of places where the cls has a clear advantage over the rapier?

 

So...

 

Slayer: rapier (because of the low defence most slayer monsters have)

Godwars: longsword (high defence monsters)

PVP: maul (because of the KO ability)

 

Right? <_<

 

I only want to spend tokens on one weapon, so I truly hope this conclusion is false. :P

 

If only dungeoneering weapons were exchangeable just like castle wars armour... :roll:

 

Well, a rapier is clearly best for slayer/other low defense monster hunting. It's good for boss hunting, and it's shown to be pretty good for PVP. I think I've stated before in this thread and others, but rapier is the most versatile of the weapons.

[xpx]

Rapier would definately be my first choice but OP severely underestimates CLS.

 

So you are saying that cls is better than rapier if you suck enough? Not the greatest advertisement for anyone to buy it, to be honest. And even by that logic, you will at some point suck little enough for rapier to be better and from then on, you've wasted 200k tokens. Also, as for most people the repair cost seems quite spicy(not that it is), most of the people who will be using these will not suck hard enough for cls to be better... So as a status report on this thread, can anyone think of places where the cls has a clear advantage over the rapier? because the opposite is true for a load of things. Only thing i can realistically think of is mithril dragons, as their defence is still a bit brisk(though i havn't tried with sup antifire yet).

 

Alot of RS players have a thing called a life.

Oh sorry, getting maxed melee/herblore in 7 years is so hard... The xp now is 10 times of what i used to get while i got 85's in melee, 5 times that of what i got getting 95's in melee, 3 times that of what i used to get getting 99's in melee. Maxing out these stats nowadays is MORE than easy. Unless ofcource you suck enough..... After pc, melee is worthless.

[bedman]

I just bought a Rapier. I tried it out a bit in clan wars, and tbh, I wasn't too impressed by the accuracy or high hits. Okay, I did 2 hit a guy once (550 440), but all in all it didn't seem that game changing as I hoped it would have been.

 

On slayer however, it absolutely owned. I managed to hit a 701 on a dark beast as my max (this was including dfs and str amulet for max non pvp armour str bonus). I timed 10 min of pure rapiering (no claw specs) and came out at 38.4k slay xp per hour. That's pretty damn impressive, for pure melee'ing.

 

After that, I tried mith drags. I used ardy cloak and onyx (i) for extra accuracy, but it still sucked. I only brought a few tuna, thinking I would manage with soul split, but I tellied out after one drag...

 

Gonna try KBD now.

[Sly_Wizard]

The fact that no one ever bothers talking about the chaotic x-bow or the chaotic staff speaks volumes to how useless they really are.

[mujammil]

Can someone try their CLS uot at slayer and compare it with whip, because i'm jubious as to what to get, i'm gonna slay a lot to max melle, but i'm gonna MH even more in summer because thats what i like. If the CLS is better than whip at slayer than i will get, but it appears CLS is on the same level as whip on slayer, i just don't know :S

[Dragonlordjl]

The fact that no one ever bothers talking about the chaotic x-bow or the chaotic staff speaks volumes to how useless they really are.

Chaotic Staff does in fact give +20% magic damage, though.

[xpx]

Can someone try their CLS uot at slayer and compare it with whip, because i'm jubious as to what to get, i'm gonna slay a lot to max melle, but i'm gonna MH even more in summer because thats what i like. If the CLS is better than whip at slayer than i will get, but it appears CLS is on the same level as whip on slayer, i just don't know :S

It's worse for all Kurdal dungeon monsters apart from irons and steels, otherwise better for aquanites, mithril dragons, black dragons, same or a bit worse for everything else. Assuming etremes/turmoil(piety). Overall(as most of the tasks it is better for are rare/blocked) it isn't worth it for slayer(unless you use it for the specific tasks). Rapier is better than cls for slayer except for mithril dragons.

The fact that no one ever bothers talking about the chaotic x-bow or the chaotic staff speaks volumes to how useless they really are.

Chaotic Staff does in fact give +20% magic damage, though.

Really? any proof of that or you are just .....

[anonymouse_]

I just bought a Rapier. I tried it out a bit in clan wars, and tbh, I wasn't too impressed by the accuracy or high hits. Okay, I did 2 hit a guy once (550 440), but all in all it didn't seem that game changing as I hoped it would have been.

 

On slayer however, it absolutely owned. I managed to hit a 701 on a dark beast as my max (this was including dfs and str amulet for max non pvp armour str bonus). I timed 10 min of pure rapiering (no claw specs) and came out at 38.4k slay xp per hour. That's pretty damn impressive, for pure melee'ing.

 

After that, I tried mith drags. I used ardy cloak and onyx (i) for extra accuracy, but it still sucked. I only brought a few tuna, thinking I would manage with soul split, but I tellied out after one drag...

 

Gonna try KBD now.

Did you use defender? With bandos I can easily tank miths by switching between prot mage and ss. I can even solo KBD with just ss...so you're doing something wrong...

 

edit: no def pots used

[Dragonlordjl]

 

Really? any proof of that or you are just .....

Yes. I have a friend who is 100+ dungeoneering, who bought a CLS, chaotic kite, farseer kite, and chaotic staff.

 

 

[warren211]

I'm a litle confused, you're comparing the CLS with rapier by comparing each of them to their own standard equivalents...? Wouldn't it be better to compare the two directly, or am I missing something big here?

 

Right now, I can't be bothered to get either chaotic weapon. I'm saving up about 120k tokens or so in order to get bone crusher, stream necklace, and book of frost. I think getting a way to slay with magic is better for me than slightly more efficient melee slaying. Don't even start with "oh, but melee is way faster than mage for slayer". I'm aware of that. My goal is to train mage with a method that won't bore me (stun training and bursting lobs are what I consider boring). And when I do melee tasks, I'm going to stick with a whip and rune defender for now and screw the chaotics. They don't seem too special to me, just slightly better damage.

 

EDIT: I might need to clarify, from my perspective of a whip slayer who is looking at these two weapons. How does the comparison you made help me if I wanted to change my weapon? You said rapier is better than whip, sure. But how does it compare to the CLS? I only know that it's equivalent to Vesta without a spec. That doesn't tell me if its worth slaying with over the whip and the CLS.

[xpx]

Well i guess then jagex is just really bad at showing off the usefulness of the rewards...+10 ranged(which is quite abit) on the cbow, +1 mage attack +5% magic damge on the staff don't seem too bad, both, and all chaotic are best for their relative combat skills.

[Nerd_Nolifer]

First of all, "Just buy a VLS?" You do recognize that even going by Jagex's pricing of recharge cost, CLS costs 2% (200K/10M) to operate per hour? (In reality, CLS costs about 20K/hour to operate, AKA 0.2%)

 

I recently bought a CLS and am very pleased. One of the first things I did was take it to castlewars and try some maxing, resulting in a high hit of 842 after 10 minutes. (Cw intricate: +20%, CW Brace: +15%) If you're curious, I may get some screenies later.

 

 

 

Took it to bandos solo, and actually had several kills in which the CLS's high accuracy and damage allowed me to not eat. Overall, was very pleased.

 

 

Friend asserted that CLS was outclassed by the whip, so I quickly proved her wrong, consistently winning by about 1/4 of the food we brought, when wearing identical gear in a few different scenarios.

 

Overall I am very pleased with my new toy. Don't get me wrong however, CR is IMO a great weapon for slaying and low defence opponents, but from what I have seen, CLS dominates it at bosses and even higher leveled PVP. Had I not been max combat, I would definately have picked the rapier.

[timmmmm83]

Since this is sliding into a comparison which Chaotic weapon is the best buy.

 

Is Chaotic maul best in any situation? PVP because it has a high KO-ability, even more so than CLS? Lack of shield slot though.

[bedman]

I just bought a Rapier. I tried it out a bit in clan wars, and tbh, I wasn't too impressed by the accuracy or high hits. Okay, I did 2 hit a guy once (550 440), but all in all it didn't seem that game changing as I hoped it would have been.

 

On slayer however, it absolutely owned. I managed to hit a 701 on a dark beast as my max (this was including dfs and str amulet for max non pvp armour str bonus). I timed 10 min of pure rapiering (no claw specs) and came out at 38.4k slay xp per hour. That's pretty damn impressive, for pure melee'ing.

 

After that, I tried mith drags. I used ardy cloak and onyx (i) for extra accuracy, but it still sucked. I only brought a few tuna, thinking I would manage with soul split, but I tellied out after one drag...

 

Gonna try KBD now.

Did you use defender? With bandos I can easily tank miths by switching between prot mage and ss. I can even solo KBD with just ss...so you're doing something wrong...

 

edit: no def pots used

Rune defender yeah. I just used purely soul split though, no switching to protect. I did only one dragon, so maybe I was unlucky...

 

Also, for whoever is interested:

 

Just did a few duels with someone with CLS (I have rapier).

I am maxed melee, he was 99 str, 96 att, 92 def.

We duelled with bandos tassets + chest, everything else off. No prayer and no food either.

The outcome was 11 - 7 for the guy with the CLS. At first it went very even, until 7 - 6, then he kept winning until 11 - 6.

[Dragonlordjl]

Since this is sliding into a comparison which Chaotic weapon is the best buy.

 

Is Chaotic maul best in any situation? PVP because it has a high KO-ability, even more so than CLS? Lack of shield slot though.

Maul is very accurate at bosses and is an excellent weapon in PvP, especially when paired with veng or a granite maul.

[brunokiller]

 

Really? any proof of that or you are just .....

Yes. I have a friend who is 100+ dungeoneering, who bought a CLS, chaotic kite, farseer kite, and chaotic staff.

 

[img=http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2039/81684714.png]

[img=http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2594/staffb.png]

 

Can you ask your friend to estimate the rough protect value of the farseer kite? (like, playing with the item lost on death interface)?

[xpx]

I just bought a Rapier. I tried it out a bit in clan wars, and tbh, I wasn't too impressed by the accuracy or high hits. Okay, I did 2 hit a guy once (550 440), but all in all it didn't seem that game changing as I hoped it would have been.

 

On slayer however, it absolutely owned. I managed to hit a 701 on a dark beast as my max (this was including dfs and str amulet for max non pvp armour str bonus). I timed 10 min of pure rapiering (no claw specs) and came out at 38.4k slay xp per hour. That's pretty damn impressive, for pure melee'ing.

 

After that, I tried mith drags. I used ardy cloak and onyx (i) for extra accuracy, but it still sucked. I only brought a few tuna, thinking I would manage with soul split, but I tellied out after one drag...

 

Gonna try KBD now.

Did you use defender? With bandos I can easily tank miths by switching between prot mage and ss. I can even solo KBD with just ss...so you're doing something wrong...

 

edit: no def pots used

Rune defender yeah. I just used purely soul split though, no switching to protect. I did only one dragon, so maybe I was unlucky...

 

Also, for whoever is interested:

 

Just did a few duels with someone with CLS (I have rapier).

I am maxed melee, he was 99 str, 96 att, 92 def.

We duelled with bandos tassets + chest, everything else off. No prayer and no food either.

The outcome was 11 - 7 for the guy with the CLS. At first it went very even, until 7 - 6, then he kept winning until 11 - 6.

To be honest, those duels only confirm how good cr is not how good the cls is... The setting you used is the worst case cenario a cr can be in comparison to cls(high def, no accuracy boosting items) and it still came out that well... Do remember thet every accuresy/strength boost is used much better on a faster, inferior(by percentages) weapon. I'd predict a 10-7 outcome on maxed/no pots/pray with bandos/def/fury/fire(ardy for cr) cape etc and even better if pots/pray allowed.

[bedman]

I just bought a Rapier. I tried it out a bit in clan wars, and tbh, I wasn't too impressed by the accuracy or high hits. Okay, I did 2 hit a guy once (550 440), but all in all it didn't seem that game changing as I hoped it would have been.

 

On slayer however, it absolutely owned. I managed to hit a 701 on a dark beast as my max (this was including dfs and str amulet for max non pvp armour str bonus). I timed 10 min of pure rapiering (no claw specs) and came out at 38.4k slay xp per hour. That's pretty damn impressive, for pure melee'ing.

 

After that, I tried mith drags. I used ardy cloak and onyx (i) for extra accuracy, but it still sucked. I only brought a few tuna, thinking I would manage with soul split, but I tellied out after one drag...

 

Gonna try KBD now.

Did you use defender? With bandos I can easily tank miths by switching between prot mage and ss. I can even solo KBD with just ss...so you're doing something wrong...

 

edit: no def pots used

Rune defender yeah. I just used purely soul split though, no switching to protect. I did only one dragon, so maybe I was unlucky...

 

Also, for whoever is interested:

 

Just did a few duels with someone with CLS (I have rapier).

I am maxed melee, he was 99 str, 96 att, 92 def.

We duelled with bandos tassets + chest, everything else off. No prayer and no food either.

The outcome was 11 - 7 for the guy with the CLS. At first it went very even, until 7 - 6, then he kept winning until 11 - 6.

To be honest, those duels only confirm how good cr is not how good the cls is... The setting you used is the worst case cenario a cr can be in comparison to cls(high def, no accuracy boosting items) and it still came out that well... Do remember thet every accuresy/strength boost is used much better on a faster, inferior(by percentages) weapon. I'd predict a 10-7 outcome on maxed/no pots/pray with bandos/def/fury/fire(ardy for cr) cape etc and even better if pots/pray allowed.

I thought it kinda balanced out since he wasn't completely maxed melees. Also, bandos chest + tassets isnt that high def (around 170). It does have +20 higher stab def though.

 

On another note: Just tried rapier + void + turmoil + deflect at barrows, and it completely owned. Did chests consistently under 5 min. Tweaking my setup now to last 12 chests (one hour).

[Articultural]

People were asking about this on another forum, and I thought this quote might help you. :)

 

Incase anyone hasn't realised yet, we don't know the accuracy formula and therefore can't accurately predict which is better for what. What we can do, however, is work out what is needed for one to outhit the other.

 

Another problem is that accuracy bonus becomes less and less helpful as your character becomes more accurate, 99 Attack, Turmoil, Extreme Attacks (or Overloads) & accuracy boosting gear makes accuracy matter a lot less than it used to. This makes speed and Strength play bigger factors in deciding which deals more damage per second (on average).

 

 

The longsword hits 4 times for every 5 times that the rapier hits, therefore the longsword will need to average 25% more damage every hit to deal more damage than the rapier.

 

As I said above, we don't know the accuracy formula, therefore much will have to be assumed when trying to prove which is superior. However, assuming that an extra Strength bonus at +100 makes the same amount of difference to your max hit at +1 (has been proven not to be the case with Prayer bonus) and assuming that the rapier and longsword have identical accuracy (or the difference is negligible) each weapon would have the following stats if they were the same speed as each other.

 

Rapier: +126.25 (+101*1.25 as rapier is 125% as fast as longsword)

Longsword: +120

 

Or

 

Rapier: +101

Longsword: +96 (+120*0.8 as longsword is 80% of the speed of rapier)

 

Obviously these are vague estimates and ignore accuracy, but they show just how close the balance between the longsword and the rapier are. Both are better than an Abyssal whip by far, in almost all circumstances

[ghjkl]

This is how accuracy works:

The attacker rolls a number between 0 and a certain number which is based on the max hit formula , which is substituting attack for strength and attack bonus for strength bonus.

The defender rolls the a number between 0 and the a certain number which is based on defense level and defense bonuses.

If the roll of the attacker is higher than the defender, the attack hits.

[Lugia_Lvl138]

I just bought a Rapier. I tried it out a bit in clan wars, and tbh, I wasn't too impressed by the accuracy or high hits. Okay, I did 2 hit a guy once (550 440), but all in all it didn't seem that game changing as I hoped it would have been.

 

On slayer however, it absolutely owned. I managed to hit a 701 on a dark beast as my max (this was including dfs and str amulet for max non pvp armour str bonus). I timed 10 min of pure rapiering (no claw specs) and came out at 38.4k slay xp per hour. That's pretty *** impressive, for pure melee'ing.

 

After that, I tried mith drags. I used ardy cloak and onyx (i) for extra accuracy, but it still sucked. I only brought a few tuna, thinking I would manage with soul split, but I tellied out after one drag...

 

Gonna try KBD now.

Did you use defender? With bandos I can easily tank miths by switching between prot mage and ss. I can even solo KBD with just ss...so you're doing something wrong...

 

edit: no def pots used

Rune defender yeah. I just used purely soul split though, no switching to protect. I did only one dragon, so maybe I was unlucky...

 

Also, for whoever is interested:

 

Just did a few duels with someone with CLS (I have rapier).

I am maxed melee, he was 99 str, 96 att, 92 def.

We duelled with bandos tassets + chest, everything else off. No prayer and no food either.

The outcome was 11 - 7 for the guy with the CLS. At first it went very even, until 7 - 6, then he kept winning until 11 - 6.

To be honest, those duels only confirm how good cr is not how good the cls is... The setting you used is the worst case cenario a cr can be in comparison to cls(high def, no accuracy boosting items) and it still came out that well... Do remember thet every accuresy/strength boost is used much better on a faster, inferior(by percentages) weapon. I'd predict a 10-7 outcome on maxed/no pots/pray with bandos/def/fury/fire(ardy for cr) cape etc and even better if pots/pray allowed.

 

Bedman, duel me with all armor on, no prayer or pots? I have CLS.

[Articultural]

This is how accuracy works:

The attacker rolls a number between 0 and a certain number which is based on the max hit formula , which is substituting attack for strength and attack bonus for strength bonus.

The defender rolls the a number between 0 and the a certain number which is based on defense level and defense bonuses.

If the roll of the attacker is higher than the defender, the attack hits.

 

Any proof of that?