Tip.it and TWR need a jump start.

[Thehitman324]

So for any top clans that frequent these boards what would it take for your clan to become active on tip.it? De-rank Joe as global moderator.

 

What would it take for your clan to join TWR? read above.

[Deltaer]

If we want tipit to become clan central again (which would be tons of work), one really important thing that has to change is the administration of this forum - Im talking specifically about the moderating.. it's late, so I briefly scanned the topic, and it seems like someone else has mentioned it too. Let me make it clear that I have nothing against the mods here; it just seems like that the way they are told to operate is a bit too high maintenance; threatening to delete posts that are off-topic or mildly offensive, or locking topics for whatever reason, or banning members because of drama (this is the clan world - drama is part of the fun for some people). RSC has always been an 'anything goes' type board - I'm not insisting that tipit goes that far, but perhaps the mods here could relax a bit? Don't we all remember what drove all the clans away in the first place? The mods on tipit!

 

Secondly, I've always thought that the TWR was a joke - sorry, but it doesn't reflect true clan strength AT ALL. Essentially, all that matters is how much you war. A more hybrid or strength-oriented rankings system needs to be implemented. And the TWR isnt even active at all. It seems like a lot of clans (including Downfall, who used to be the most active on TWR) have pulled away from it.. further puts a crack in its credibility.

 

Thank god the old wilderness might be coming back - hopefully that scales back the CWA activity... too much of that on tipit :P Think that's another turn off keeping the top clans from coming back.

 

In reality, it'd be awesome if tipit could go back to its glory days (which unfortunately quickly ended after RS2 was released), but that will take a lot of work.. small steps would be good.. this place just seems too static; do something pleasssseee.. nice to see an active discussion about it though.

[CruelKiller]

I was thinking the other day. Why not instead of points system make it like a knock out rank. I don't know how its called but for example:

 

Rank #4 declares Rank #1. Rank #4 wins and they get rank #1 while Rank #1 is down to Rank #4. To me it seems to be more competition :S

That is somewhat how RAW used to be and it wouldnt work. That only works for 1 style of fighting (back then it was full outs). The thing is there are so many different kinds of fights (CWA/PVP, matched/fullout, returning fights, and p2p/f2p) that system would not really work out well.

 

By giving bonus points for certain things you add more those aspects. Activity will still be key but you can pick and choose.

Now about rivalries. I remember there were quite a few in the past,and the amount of activity that it brought the boards. But those have mostly died out and further contributed to the stale atmosphere of the clan section. Unfortunately as well those beefs involved people pushing the boundaries which resulted in them being banned. I suppose Tip.it still has to find its balance.

I remember a lot of posters in this boards that really contributed to it even if they were trolling they still made activity out of it. There hasn't been many Rivalry going in here after the TPR and DV beef. I remember the boards were more active by that time... or maybe its just me.

[das]

If we want tipit to become clan central again (which would be tons of work), one really important thing that has to change is the administration of this forum - Im talking specifically about the moderating.. it's late, so I briefly scanned the topic, and it seems like someone else has mentioned it too. Let me make it clear that I have nothing against the mods here; it just seems like that the way they are told to operate is a bit too high maintenance; threatening to delete posts that are off-topic or mildly offensive, or locking topics for whatever reason, or banning members because of drama (this is the clan world - drama is part of the fun for some people). RSC has always been an 'anything goes' type board - I'm not insisting that tipit goes that far, but perhaps the mods here could relax a bit?

This is something I will look into.

Don't we all remember what drove all the clans away in the first place? The mods on tipit!

 

Not exactly - I was around then. You had 2 Mods, both who were biased and took criticism piss poorly, to make matters worse, the admin team in 04 didn't care about clans and locked the boards because they were too damn incompetent to actually figure out how to deal with them. Then they realized "clans create work" or something so they came up with bullshit rules like "posting on the half of others" - Basically the idiots banned half of DI within 2 weeks because declaring a war was posting on behalf of a banned leader.

 

Anyways, if you argued with the mods - you got banned - i got banned myself for it and i can state firmly that

 

1) We've never banned someone for disagreeing with us or criticizing us. Infact I welcome and encourage intelligent criticism.

2) Our mods do not moderate in favor of one clan or the other - infact they are not allowed to moderate topics involving the clan they are in

3) Our clan staff, and adminstration - does care for the section and enjoy the work

 

We're always looking too improve, and I will always listen to any arguments - however i'd like examples of us being "too harsh" and not just blanket statements

 

~Das

[Ankit]

So for any top clans that frequent these boards what would it take for your clan to become active on tip.it?

I think Kimberly and I were the only active posters on Tip.It. If there were more topics to discuss, and the general activity in the forums to pick up then I would probably become more active on Tip.It. Same would probably go to some other Solace members.

What would it take for your clan to join TWR?

Bigger variety of clans of a more challenging difficulty. I don't think Solace would be able to challenge itself with the clans participating in it now. More PvP oriented fights would be cool.

[Adr1an]

So for any top clans that frequent these boards what would it take for your clan to become active on tip.it?

I think Kimberly and I were the only active posters on Tip.It. If there were more topics to discuss, and the general activity in the forums to pick up then I would probably become more active on Tip.It. Same would probably go to some other Solace members.

What would it take for your clan to join TWR?

Bigger variety of clans of a more challenging difficulty. I don't think Solace would be able to challenge itself with the clans participating in it now. More PvP oriented fights would be cool.

Problem with that is someone kinda has to take the first step ya know?

 

Yea we can get these clans to come and become competitive but who is going to be the first to set the standard.

 

Will clans ask other clans to come to TWR and test it out?

 

One thing I wish could be done is that any and all clans that warred had their points count towards the rankings. The rules would be looked at and they would fall under certain categories and the results would be found. No TWR clan can crash any other ones. It would set a community based on respect and such.

 

Yes this sounds like an ideal world but isnt it kinda what everyone wants? If we all were to agree to it then wouldnt it actually make things nice?

 

Maybe I am living in an idealistic world but in the end we are in charge of what we do.

 

Any clan that crashes probably wont care about TWR anyway so figure why the heck not and throw the idea out there.

[Billy Key]

My feeling is that it will take more than fixing the rankings in some way to attract people. When I was a CL I know there were plenty of discussions about what to do with TWR and how to make it more appealing. I don't think a ranking system will do the job though, on RSC people are more interested in saying what their rankings are and generally pay more attention to their own opinion than anything. On top of that, people only care about the top 10 clans, that's as far as the rankings would need to go to be appealing for the people on RSC.

 

RAW failed because it became inaccurate due to either inactivity from the people updating the rankings, some clans didn't want to fight other clans, clans got bored of losing their rankings to people who they hadn't fought and so on and so forth. What tipit has brings a different problem which is that the big clans don't war each other very often, they normally have PKRI's or at this point crash each other and it's very difficult to rank those things. Not to mention that the losing their ranks to clans they haven't fought problem would rear it's head once again.

 

Attracting big clans to tipit is going to be difficult because people on RSC are just worried about having somewhere to post their win topics. Unfortunately unless the mods on RSC do something terribly wrong, like the mods on tipit did in the past, bringing the people who post on there is going to be very difficult and may take something new and exciting to draw interest. What that might be I do not know. People like to complain about mods on RSC but they're not nearly bad enough to make a large scale migration back to tipit.

 

Making TWR into something that would be attractive to big clans may be a step but not enough people worry about being ranked by a 3rd party for it to make the difference some people seem to think it could make.

[Adr1an]

I dont expect it to be magic. Far from it. I do want to take advantage and honestly there are some top clans I do not think would be a good fit for TWR and the community here. The top clans can do their thing but right outside the top 10 there are literally 20-30 clans that could come here. They are not in nearly as much drama and could add variety to TWR. That is the group I would like to ask to join TWR. Actually go to them and say "hey this is what we are offering, these are the rules and the list, anyone in TWR should not be crashing another TWR clan, and it offers p2p/f2p, pvp/cwa, variety"

 

this is what i want to do. I just want to have a better product to sell as it can use a few tweaks. I will ACTIVELY recruit from RSC the clans that i think would be a good fit here.

 

Just give feedback so that there is something to work with.

[bravehero12]

Vote bravehero12 for mod

 

It's nice to see discussion on how to revive tip.it, hope it will happen.

[Lovelost]

So for any top clans that frequent these boards what would it take for your clan to become active on tip.it?

I personally am with another few The Titans Members.

 

What would it take for your clan to join TWR?

I doubt we would join. There are no real challenges onto the TWR listings. If DF/CoR/RSD/VR/EoS all joined it might bring something but it would make Tipit into the outlook of RAW rankings.

[_Douglas]

I think one of the major problems is that people here feel that they would be "giving the shaft" to clans who have been here for a long time if they change things. Any given clan has a certain amount of strength, and none of that strength is due to how long a clan has been on this site. If you are trying to make a warring list, make it accurate. There are better places to throw a bone to loyal customers than on the TWR regulations.

 

Suggestion: Forget having clans sign up for TWR. Forget having clans declare/accept for TWR. Have the TWR team look at each topic that is made in Clan Fights and have that panel determine if the fight is going to be considered for TWR (based on new regulations). Have the panel come to a consensus on an official list. Anyone involved in any TWR-approved topic posted in Clan Fights becomes involved in the TWR list at a level determined by the panel. To advance on the TWR, clans simply would fight just as they do right now, until they convince the panel that they ought to be ranked higher. The panel will have many freedoms, and if they feel a certain clan's activity is so far superior to another that they would rank said clan above the other, then so be it. However, panel member selection must be done carefully and panel members need to be objective about their own clans and rivals. And yes, panel members will argue amongst each other, but that is the point. ;)

[iTzKoNG]

i think its the clans that are in TWR, we need a more options to war.

what options do you suggest?

more variety of clans i meant

[Laikrob]

I think one of the major problems is that people here feel that they would be "giving the shaft" to clans who have been here for a long time if they change things. Any given clan has a certain amount of strength, and none of that strength is due to how long a clan has been on this site. If you are trying to make a warring list, make it accurate. There are better places to throw a bone to loyal customers than on the TWR regulations.

 

Suggestion: Forget having clans sign up for TWR. Forget having clans declare/accept for TWR. Have the TWR team look at each topic that is made in Clan Fights and have that panel determine if the fight is going to be considered for TWR (based on new regulations). Have the panel come to a consensus on an official list. Anyone involved in any TWR-approved topic posted in Clan Fights becomes involved in the TWR list at a level determined by the panel. To advance on the TWR, clans simply would fight just as they do right now, until they convince the panel that they ought to be ranked higher. The panel will have many freedoms, and if they feel a certain clan's activity is so far superior to another that they would rank said clan above the other, then so be it. However, panel member selection must be done carefully and panel members need to be objective about their own clans and rivals. And yes, panel members will argue amongst each other, but that is the point. ;)

I like that suggestion. New perspectives and ideas like this one are good. :thumbup:

[Danny_TeamDan]

I think you should make a topic on RSC Adrian asking if any top clans are even interested in a ranking system/ladder.

 

I'm sure most of them will say no, due to ranking systems and ladders never being 100% accurate and tons of drama and problems along the way. However, I wouldn't mind seeing Tip.it CD section gain more people and just posting pk trips and wars more here would be great, but cmon who wants to have a set ranking system in which you know their will be flaws and not 100% (won't even be remotely accurate imo)

 

Like I've said before, why cater to clans that aren't in here? Find out if they even would want a ranking system and how they would want it before you do it and just hope they join because 99% sure most top clans aren't interested and will not join.

[Adr1an]

I think you should make a topic on RSC Adrian asking if any top clans are even interested in a ranking system/ladder.

 

I'm sure most of them will say no, due to ranking systems and ladders never being 100% accurate and tons of drama and problems along the way. However, I wouldn't mind seeing Tip.it CD section gain more people and just posting pk trips and wars more here would be great, but cmon who wants to have a set ranking system in which you know their will be flaws and not 100% (won't even be remotely accurate imo)

 

Like I've said before, why cater to clans that aren't in here? Find out if they even would want a ranking system and how they would want it before you do it and just hope they join because 99% sure most top clans aren't interested and will not join.

Lol problem is that I am so outspoken on RSC and the crappy way they moderate things as well as the stupid trolls on there that I am not too liked over there. I have called mods out on 3pp and not backing up their claims of cracking down on flaming and trolling. I have peeved off mods by reporting people for continuously breaking rules.

 

There is a growing bias on RSC and it is getting worse. I would rather go to leaders one on one and ask them that way as I feel it will help more than posting on RSC. Most will say that kinda stuff sucks. In many ways I do not want top clans here. I would prefer to have clans that are solace and below. The majority of those clans are at least more respectful than the top clans and could provide a decent structure to TWR.

 

@Doug - I have thrown out that idea as well and gotten declined. I would be all for every war posted on TWR to be thrown into the system and if it wasnt crashed or anything the points are put in. TWR clans would have an unwritten rule that if you are part of the community you do not crash one another. However could the clans be grown up enough to follow this? Probably not....

[Danny_TeamDan]

why would soalce want to come here lol they are doing fine w/out ranking systems and id say they are cracking down trolls and stuff i posted some slight trolls / spam and got 3 day suspension lol.

[Adr1an]

I just said the ideal....... and the max I think would fit well within the community

[_Douglas]

Like I've said before, why cater to clans that aren't in here? Find out if they even would want a ranking system and how they would want it before you do it and just hope they join because 99% sure most top clans aren't interested and will not join.

 

Because even if they aren't on this site en-mass, they are still stronger. If you want to have an accurate list of who is the strongest clans, then you can't just ignore clans who don't currently post. If you don't make yourselves relevant to them, they won't have any need to show up. I understand that not having them on the list allows for mid-sized and small clans to be ranked that much higher, but a list like that is simply a lie, just like the current list. You're not 'catering' to them by putting them on the list - there are no special favors.

 

@Doug - I have thrown out that idea as well and gotten declined. I would be all for every war posted on TWR to be thrown into the system and if it wasnt crashed or anything the points are put in. TWR clans would have an unwritten rule that if you are part of the community you do not crash one another. However could the clans be grown up enough to follow this? Probably not....

Even if the fight was crashed, it could still be used to sway the opinions of the panel. The panel would not be limited to "winners", rather, winning would just be one point for which the panel could consider. There are many more things about a fight than "who gets to post the topic" that can be considered, and not considering those factors was one of the shortcomings of RAW. The 'unwritten rule' is unnecessary. Nice, but definitely something beyond the scope of a ranking system.

[Ultimair]

What led PH away from TWR is that we didn't like being forced to war clans that had significantly smaller pulls (Pulling under 15) while we would pull twice as much, making 15 ppl lose out on some fun. Sure we could always decline, but there's a punishment for declining, so we gradually lost interest.

 

I'm not sure how to fix that, because it wouldn't be fair to discriminate against smaller clans. However, while looking out for smaller clans, bigger clans are pushed away and they end up being, in a way, discriminated against. Thus, they aren't really active here.

 

Dunno how gamerrs idea of a cluster would work, since there's always idiotic clans/cc team that ends up crashing it. Dont even think about suggesting a CW cluster, it would be disastrous, and not worth the effort.

 

What killerred was saying about rivalries: Do we really want those big, nasty rivalries (involving hacking, spying, ddosing, etc) to come on over to TWR? I don't think so.

[Danny_TeamDan]

Like I've said before, why cater to clans that aren't in here? Find out if they even would want a ranking system and how they would want it before you do it and just hope they join because 99% sure most top clans aren't interested and will not join.

 

Because even if they aren't on this site en-mass, they are still stronger. If you want to have an accurate list of who is the strongest clans, then you can't just ignore clans who don't currently post. If you don't make yourselves relevant to them, they won't have any need to show up. I understand that not having them on the list allows for mid-sized and small clans to be ranked that much higher, but a list like that is simply a lie, just like the current list. You're not 'catering' to them by putting them on the list - there are no special favors.

 

@Doug - I have thrown out that idea as well and gotten declined. I would be all for every war posted on TWR to be thrown into the system and if it wasnt crashed or anything the points are put in. TWR clans would have an unwritten rule that if you are part of the community you do not crash one another. However could the clans be grown up enough to follow this? Probably not....

Even if the fight was crashed, it could still be used to sway the opinions of the panel. The panel would not be limited to "winners", rather, winning would just be one point for which the panel could consider. There are many more things about a fight than "who gets to post the topic" that can be considered, and not considering those factors was one of the shortcomings of RAW. The 'unwritten rule' is unnecessary. Nice, but definitely something beyond the scope of a ranking system.

 

We don't want an accurate list of who the strongest clan is in the clan world, we want an accurate list of clans that are in the TWR who are not only good but actively participate in it. If you start making changes to "attract" top clans to come here, those changes may annoy the clans already on this list because it makes things harder for smaller clans and then they will just leave, and then I'm almost certain none of the top clans will come with changes like that.

 

Read the second part of what you quoted me on, Find out first if they are even remotely interested in a ranking list in which they will know past lists have faiiled / been inaccurate / drama involved / getting boring wars.

[_Douglas]

Like I've said before, why cater to clans that aren't in here? Find out if they even would want a ranking system and how they would want it before you do it and just hope they join because 99% sure most top clans aren't interested and will not join.

 

Because even if they aren't on this site en-mass, they are still stronger. If you want to have an accurate list of who is the strongest clans, then you can't just ignore clans who don't currently post. If you don't make yourselves relevant to them, they won't have any need to show up. I understand that not having them on the list allows for mid-sized and small clans to be ranked that much higher, but a list like that is simply a lie, just like the current list. You're not 'catering' to them by putting them on the list - there are no special favors.

 

@Doug - I have thrown out that idea as well and gotten declined. I would be all for every war posted on TWR to be thrown into the system and if it wasnt crashed or anything the points are put in. TWR clans would have an unwritten rule that if you are part of the community you do not crash one another. However could the clans be grown up enough to follow this? Probably not....

Even if the fight was crashed, it could still be used to sway the opinions of the panel. The panel would not be limited to "winners", rather, winning would just be one point for which the panel could consider. There are many more things about a fight than "who gets to post the topic" that can be considered, and not considering those factors was one of the shortcomings of RAW. The 'unwritten rule' is unnecessary. Nice, but definitely something beyond the scope of a ranking system.

 

We don't want an accurate list of who the strongest clan is in the clan world, we want an accurate list of clans that are in the TWR who are not only good but actively participate in it. If you start making changes to "attract" top clans to come here, those changes may annoy the clans already on this list because it makes things harder for smaller clans and then they will just leave, and then I'm almost certain none of the top clans will come with changes like that.

 

Read the second part of what you quoted me on, Find out first if they are even remotely interested in a ranking list in which they will know past lists have faiiled / been inaccurate / drama involved / getting boring wars.

 

Okay. So what you say you want is a list of all the clans who bother to sign up. But not only ranking them by order of who is "good", you would like them to be ranked also by who "actively participates in it".

 

When I can create a ten man team, declare on everyone, and in the span of a week take #1 on the TWR because of "activity", something is broken, dear. And it's not like it would be hard to do - I might not even have to log on to the game if everyone simply declines me.

 

Here's a little food for thought for you: The last two TWR declarations were made nearly two weeks ago, both on the same day. The declaration before that was made more than a month ago. News flash: no one currently actively participates in TWR, with arguably the exception of the two clans involved in that 2-week old declaration. Changes need to happen to the TWR, or the TWR will continue to be as dead as it has been, and a dead TWR is beneficial to no one.

 

Yes, having higher clans here will make things "harder" for smaller clans. And by that I mean that the number next to their name will be higher. Instead of acting like the highest tier of clans don't exist, why not lay out the bedspread and welcome them to the community? It's not about your clan or my clan or any clan at all benefiting from this, it is about Tip.it and also about the survival of the TWR in some form or another - but do know that the TWR as it stands now is no longer pulling interest from clans as evidenced by the across-the-board activity lapse. It's not the tournaments, either, and with the Wilderness' return changes will have to be made anyway to accommodate for whatever Jagex throws at us on February 1st.

 

Having an accurate list is no reason for a smaller clan to leave. They will need to come to terms with the fact that #1 isn't achievable for them. If they desire to be #1 strongly enough, it is possible but only with ingame skill, strong leaders, recruitment, and dedication. Why must the goal always be #1? Set a goal for #20. Set a goal for #15. Set a goal to break into the top ten. Those are a sample of achievable goals for smaller clans. There is room here for both large clans and smaller clans. Make the playing field fair, even for the big guy.

 

Poll results about if top clans 'want' to be ranked on tip.it are obviously going to be very one-sided - you know as well as I do that the past experiences from the RAW list, as well as the TWR being on tip.it instead of their current primary fansite, will bias them. Put them on the list, and when they see that they are getting attention here, they will come around. It's up to the Tip.it and TWR officials to see that the reputation they have gathered, for catering specifically to the lower-tier clans, comes to an end.

[Danny_TeamDan]

lol regardless of attention they don't see it worth their time to be on a ranking system thats inaccurate lol any clan who is serious about being a good clan wouldn't join a ranking ladder idk why you're on this high mission to save something that's been dead for months. Time to let it go and close down the ranking system tbh clans on here can declare on others w/out the need of a set ranking system, the reason the activity is dead in TWR is because they are starting to realize ranking systems will never be perfect and that it's dumb and they've grown out of the stage, and im sure most of them came on here to gain recruits and attempt to get number 1 on the ranking system to gain more recruits and that's not really happening

 

Edit: I await your 10 man team and your attempts to taking number 1.

[_Douglas]

lol regardless of attention they don't see it worth their time to be on a ranking system thats inaccurate lol any clan who is serious about being a good clan wouldn't join a ranking ladder idk why you're on this high mission to save something that's been dead for months. Time to let it go and close down the ranking system tbh clans on here can declare on others w/out the need of a set ranking system, the reason the activity is dead in TWR is because they are starting to realize ranking systems will never be perfect and that it's dumb and they've grown out of the stage, and im sure most of them came on here to gain recruits and attempt to get number 1 on the ranking system to gain more recruits and that's not really happening

 

Edit: I await your 10 man team and your attempts to taking number 1.

I take this post of yours as a concession of all of your points. Your obstructionist agenda has shown its true colors here. I don't think I have any need to discuss this much further with you, as it ought to be quite obvious to the tip.it leadership as to which of us has the best interests of tip.it and TWR at heart in this matter.

 

 

 

 

 

---

 

We don't want an accurate list of who the strongest clan is in the clan world, we want an accurate list of clans that are in the TWR who are not only good but actively participate in it.

 

they don't see it worth their time to be on a ranking system thats inaccurate lol any clan who is serious about being a good clan wouldn't join a ranking ladder idk why you're on this high mission to save something that's been dead for months. Time to let it go and close down the ranking system

 

lol

[Danny_TeamDan]

if the twr ranking system is your love and joy why dont you start with your clan getting active on here

 

I care about tip.it (Probably more than you) , twr ive lost hope in as well as others the clans that made it active have moved on to better things and like i said realized theres more stuff to do than just sit on a ranking system which means very little in the clan world

[envymark]

Biggest problem TWR has imo is the fact that any1 can join the same thing. You got clans that pull around 30-40 and then you have clans that struggle to pull 20. Then you have clans that prefer CWA and some who prefer PVP. The ones who tend to pull the 30-40 prefer the pvp though so personally ide prefer it if there were 2 categories but for that wede need a lot more clans and there just arnt enough around atm. The reason i say 2 categories is that it just isnt fun for a clan that pulls around 30-40 to be forced into waring with a clan pullin around about 20, no1 likes to drop when they don't have to and very few people like waring clans that won't offer a challenge in a full out. Theres just to much diversity with to few clans for it to work that well at the moment in my opinion.