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Is America a greedy country?


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#21
rocc0
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America is no more greedy than any other country. Every country has its fair share of idiots, and America doesn't have significantly more or less than anywhere else. The problem is that idiots in America have internet access and are vocal about their stupid opinions.



yes it is.

you just have to look at the CO2 emissions, the size of houses. The size of everything. The obesity rates. Granted England isn't much better.

But do you know what gets me?? America's attitude towards war.

I can't be assed to get into a massive quote chain debate on this cos im crap at them and i dont care enough to prove everything i say. but some of the stuff ive heard is atrocious.

Dude fox news is an accepted news channel. thats all that needs to be said.

anyway i got extreme views, there's a lot of things i ahte about america. not americans, but america.

but yeah there is a reason why most of the world hates america.

CO2 emissions, house size, obesity rates - that's not because of greed, it's because of wealth. you don't know what greed is. being wealthy doesn't make you greedy and being greedy doesn't make you wealthy.

fox news isnt an accepted news channel, it's available to something like 100 million households but has viewership under 3.3 million. it's only watched by the least informed people out there. also, the sun is probably just as bad.

"there is a reason why most of the world hates america" somebody had a big bowl of ignorant for breakfast

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#22
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I remember seeing that picture in "Giant earthquake hits Japan" thread and discussed that a few measly people from FB
does not represent a whole country?

Yeh...But I don't think America is REALLY greedy. We are still helping out the Japanese by sending emissaries and all that other crap.

#23
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I remember seeing that picture in "Giant earthquake hits Japan" thread and discussed that a few measly people from FB
does not represent a whole country?

Yeh...But I don't think America is REALLY greedy. We are still helping out the Japanese by sending emissaries and all that other crap.

related:

American aid in recent tragedy in Japan:
The United States moved naval vessels closer to Japan for the purposes of providing aid.[55] US Marines based at MCAS Futenma moved command and control teams and systems to Naval Air Station Atsugi.[55] MV Westpac Express, two KC-130Js from MCAS Futenma and two C-17A Globemaster cargo aircraft from Joint Base Lewis-McChord were made available to transport rescue teams and equipment.[55] Eight US Marine Corps CH-46E transport helicopters based at MCAS Futenma were made available for search and rescue.[55] The 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit was moved from southeast Asia to Japan to assist in the recovery effort.[55] The US Office of Foreign Disaster Assistance sent Urban Search and Rescue California Task Force 2 and Virginia Task Force 1.[56] A USAF KC-135 Stratotanker arrived at Misawa Air Base on Sunday with the first batch of relief workers and 50 civil engineers from Kadena Air Base. [57] Two urban search and rescue teams arrived pending merger with a 60 member/2-dog team from the UK. The combine US-UK operation is slated to work in Miyagi Prefecture. Marines stationed in Okinawa will be sent utilising cargo aircraft and transport helicopters. The effort is being headed out of the Yokota Air Base in Japan which has also sheltered 600 people.[58] Also dispatched will be the USS Tortuga amphibious dock ship to transport 300 Japanese civil defense workers from the island of Hokaido to the island of Honshu with 90 vehicles.[59] The III Marine Expeditionary Force was “prepositioning forces and supplies in support of humanitarian assistance and disaster relief operations.”[60]

UK aid:
The United Kingdom sent 70 rescuers to Japan, including two search dogs, a medical support team and 11 metric tons of specialized rescue equipment.

The US, being as greedy as people are saying it is, is doing just as much if not more than other countries.

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#24
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The UK hasn't really participated in "modern warfare" to the extent that America has so that too is an imbalanced example. You can't prove anything and you're persisting with this for no reason even though it's clear that there is no evidence in your favor. Then you go and say my examples don't work because it's WWII, which was hardly "trench warfare" by any stretch of the imagination.

Let's just focus on Iraq because it's the most recent.

"Where the armies were in it for the same time" - Maybe, though the UK had already withdrawn from some of the later examples you posted. Besides that, the US sent over 150,000 troops, the UK sent under 50,000.



no evidence aside from the fact there's more instances of American forces using friendly fire than other nations you mean?
Cause I'd say thts pretty strong evidence.

Also Britain hasn't withdrawn from Iraq or Afghanistan, they still there just same as US.

But w/e this is getting off topic, all I know is America has a widespread reputation for being really bad with friendly fire and its often skated over in certain American news outlets

Also theres a good heap of internet meme's and art about it:

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#25
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It seems you're implying that since an internet meme exists in regards to it that constitutes solid evidence that it's factually correct.

I think what rocco is trying to say (correctly) is that there's a false impression that american forces are particularly lackadaisical when it comes to preventing friendly fire, when in fact it happens in all conflicts.

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its true, most of the world hates america.

#27
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It seems you're implying that since an internet meme exists in regards to it that constitutes solid evidence that it's factually correct.

I think what rocco is trying to say (correctly) is that there's a false impression that american forces are particularly lackadaisical when it comes to preventing friendly fire, when in fact it happens in all conflicts.



I know its exaggerated by memes and such, but in the numbers american's do come off worse than like any other nation for incidents of friendly fire caused by them.
I cant be assed to trawl em up but I read some interesting statical stuff on it like a year ago.

I think a good example of the fact it is true to an extent is covered by this article:
http://www.timesonli...ticle422701.ece

If american's don't have an issue with it why do they need special training introduced specifically to reduce cases of it.

edit to below: I didn;t "throw out" anything from WW2, the point of CURRENT reputation etc and as such to go back to a war that had significantly different circumstances and technology to doesn't really relate to the case.
Equally I never said other armies DIDN'T do it.
Also we drew out in 2009? Like years after the full on war ended. And of all the examples I posted only maybe 2 are post uk pull out in iraq.

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#28
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The UK hasn't really participated in "modern warfare" to the extent that America has so that too is an imbalanced example. You can't prove anything and you're persisting with this for no reason even though it's clear that there is no evidence in your favor. Then you go and say my examples don't work because it's WWII, which was hardly "trench warfare" by any stretch of the imagination.

Let's just focus on Iraq because it's the most recent.

"Where the armies were in it for the same time" - Maybe, though the UK had already withdrawn from some of the later examples you posted. Besides that, the US sent over 150,000 troops, the UK sent under 50,000.



no evidence aside from the fact there's more instances of American forces using friendly fire than other nations you mean?
Cause I'd say thts pretty strong evidence.

Also Britain hasn't withdrawn from Iraq or Afghanistan, they still there just same as US.

"United Kingdom: 46,000 invasion (withdrawn 7/09)" http://en.wikipedia...._Iraq_2003-2009

America has three times more troops there, that's an exponentially greater chance for friendly fire to occur. Any "reputation" American forces have for greater instances of friendly fire is pure propaganda. Not to mention the fact that there were over 10,000 deaths by friendly fire from the British in WW2 that you threw out "because of the technology" which makes no sense because all parties had access to the same technology. Plus there were examples completely unrelated to technology or American presence, like the one I posted where British aircraft destroyed German ships carrying over 7,000 concentration camp survivors and POWs.

Like Y_Guy said, it happens in all conflicts, the assertion you are trying to make is logically flawed because there are no concrete examples with equivalent time in combat or manpower in combat on either side.

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#29
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The UK hasn't really participated in "modern warfare" to the extent that America has so that too is an imbalanced example. You can't prove anything and you're persisting with this for no reason even though it's clear that there is no evidence in your favor. Then you go and say my examples don't work because it's WWII, which was hardly "trench warfare" by any stretch of the imagination.

Let's just focus on Iraq because it's the most recent.

"Where the armies were in it for the same time" - Maybe, though the UK had already withdrawn from some of the later examples you posted. Besides that, the US sent over 150,000 troops, the UK sent under 50,000.



no evidence aside from the fact there's more instances of American forces using friendly fire than other nations you mean?
Cause I'd say thts pretty strong evidence.

Also Britain hasn't withdrawn from Iraq or Afghanistan, they still there just same as US.

"United Kingdom: 46,000 invasion (withdrawn 7/09)" http://en.wikipedia...._Iraq_2003-2009

America has three times more troops there, that's an exponentially greater chance for friendly fire to occur. Any "reputation" American forces have for greater instances of friendly fire is pure propaganda. Not to mention the fact that there were over 10,000 deaths by friendly fire from the British in WW2 that you threw out "because of the technology" which makes no sense because all parties had access to the same technology. Plus there were examples completely unrelated to technology or American presence, like the one I posted where British aircraft destroyed German ships carrying over 7,000 concentration camp survivors and POWs.

Like Y_Guy said, it happens in all conflicts, the assertion you are trying to make is logically flawed because there are no concrete examples with equivalent time in combat or manpower in combat on either side.



ww2 was a differnt war neek. different times, totally uncomparable. completely messy, much worse technology. [bleep]ed up times for most people in europe. not ameirca though who 'saved the day'. your country wasnt even sure if it wanted to be involved. pAH.

also the british should have excactly 3 times less if the friendly fire rate is the same, since britain on american is friendly fire.

http://www.guardian....endly-fire-iraq

got to admit tho, i just went on wikipedia and if all of the exampled on friendly fire are the only ones that occured then it was about 3-1. which means it was equal :P

but i dunno..

#30
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The UK hasn't really participated in "modern warfare" to the extent that America has so that too is an imbalanced example. You can't prove anything and you're persisting with this for no reason even though it's clear that there is no evidence in your favor. Then you go and say my examples don't work because it's WWII, which was hardly "trench warfare" by any stretch of the imagination.

Let's just focus on Iraq because it's the most recent.

"Where the armies were in it for the same time" - Maybe, though the UK had already withdrawn from some of the later examples you posted. Besides that, the US sent over 150,000 troops, the UK sent under 50,000.



no evidence aside from the fact there's more instances of American forces using friendly fire than other nations you mean?
Cause I'd say thts pretty strong evidence.

Also Britain hasn't withdrawn from Iraq or Afghanistan, they still there just same as US.

"United Kingdom: 46,000 invasion (withdrawn 7/09)" http://en.wikipedia...._Iraq_2003-2009

America has three times more troops there, that's an exponentially greater chance for friendly fire to occur. Any "reputation" American forces have for greater instances of friendly fire is pure propaganda. Not to mention the fact that there were over 10,000 deaths by friendly fire from the British in WW2 that you threw out "because of the technology" which makes no sense because all parties had access to the same technology. Plus there were examples completely unrelated to technology or American presence, like the one I posted where British aircraft destroyed German ships carrying over 7,000 concentration camp survivors and POWs.

Like Y_Guy said, it happens in all conflicts, the assertion you are trying to make is logically flawed because there are no concrete examples with equivalent time in combat or manpower in combat on either side.



ww2 was a differnt war neek. different times, totally uncomparable. completely messy, much worse technology. [bleep]ed up times for most people in europe. not ameirca though who 'saved the day'. your country wasnt even sure if it wanted to be involved. pAH.

also the british should have excactly 3 times less if the friendly fire rate is the same, since britain on american is friendly fire.

No, because what he is pointing out includes American on American friendly fire (basically there are two categories on each side British-->British, British-->American and American-->American and American-->British).

"totally uncomparable" [cabbage]. both parties had the same amount of technology, and the british had more instances of friendly fire during the time that both parties were present.

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#31
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Im not restricting it to american and british I'm talking about american and anyone they were in a war with.

Also yes ww2 in itself was balanced.
The point you are missing is the reputation is based on CURRENT MODERN warfare, with CURRENT technology and CURRENT combative styles.
In this respect ww2 is not relevant as the warfare style, technology and everything is far inferior; plus with it not being MODERN WARFARE it doesn't have bearing upon the MODERN WARFARE reputation.

I never made comment on historic warfare, only current. They are separate issues.
You're trying to argue (in part atleast) American reputation and statistics for friendly fire in MODERN warfare is not justified comapred to other countries in MODERN WARFARE because is a non-modern war America "scored" less than Britain.

But this is getting very off-topic now and boring; best let it be.

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#32
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^^^

you make fair points. (to roccodog)

but this isn't about friendly fire :P

its about is america selfish, from my experience america seems very selfish. also scarily patriotic and uninformed (on the whole, i doubt anyone posting on this is in that category).

#33
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^^^

you make fair points.

but this isn't about friendly fire :P

its about is america selfish, from my experience america seems very selfish. also scarily patriotic and uninformed (on the whole, i doubt anyone posting on this is in that category).

I can understand why it would seem that way to an outsider, but take my word for it - America on the whole isn't what you see on the news. If you took an average American and put them in a room with an average Brit, they would get along fine. Average Americans are more like me than anything else - not really giving a [cabbage] about politics, just going on with our little lives, and I imagine that the average Brit is the same way.

As for scarily patriotic and uninformed, I could agree with the patriotism to an extent but I definitely wouldn't say "scarily" patriotic. For uninformed, again, it depends who you're talking to. If they get their news from Fox, damn right they're probably uninformed, but again, most Brits who get their news from the Sun are also very uninformed.

The bottom line is that the typical person in a developed nation isn't very different from the typical person in another developed nation. Anyone who thinks otherwise has been convinced by biased media and stereotypes, nothing else.

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#34
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Im not restricting it to american and british I'm talking about american and anyone they were in a war with.

Also yes ww2 in itself was balanced.
The point you are missing is the reputation is based on CURRENT MODERN warfare, with CURRENT technology and CURRENT combative styles.
In this respect ww2 is not relevant as the warfare style, technology and everything is far inferior; plus with it not being MODERN WARFARE it doesn't have bearing upon the MODERN WARFARE reputation.

I never made comment on historic warfare, only current. They are separate issues.
You're trying to argue (in part atleast) American reputation and statistics for friendly fire in MODERN warfare is not justified comapred to other countries in MODERN WARFARE because is a non-modern war America "scored" less than Britain.

But this is getting very off-topic now and boring; best let it be.

You can't compare it to modern warfare because the US has been much more active in recent modern warfare than the UK has.

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#35
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^^^

you make fair points.

but this isn't about friendly fire :P

its about is america selfish, from my experience america seems very selfish. also scarily patriotic and uninformed (on the whole, i doubt anyone posting on this is in that category).

I can understand why it would seem that way to an outsider, but take my word for it - America on the whole isn't what you see on the news. If you took an average American and put them in a room with an average Brit, they would get along fine. Average Americans are more like me than anything else - not really giving a [cabbage] about politics, just going on with our little lives, and I imagine that the average Brit is the same way.

As for scarily patriotic and uninformed, I could agree with the patriotism to an extent but I definitely wouldn't say "scarily" patriotic. For uninformed, again, it depends who you're talking to. If they get their news from Fox, damn right they're probably uninformed, but again, most Brits who get their news from the Sun are also very uninformed.

The bottom line is that the typical person in a developed nation isn't very different from the typical person in another developed nation. Anyone who thinks otherwise has been convinced by biased media and stereotypes, nothing else.


I'd say this is largely true but I think America is slightly worse than other nations as most other nations don;t have such a patriotism kick even in day to day living and as covered earlier patriotism does sort of leading to higher levels of ignorance to things that don;t involve your country and a willingness to believe slanted news that doesn't show the negative side to your country. Which is sort of summarised nicely in the OPs picture, though obviously in an extremist sort of way.

but yeah by and large don;t think greed issues are that much different.

@rocco tht last war thing is true if you take overall numbers, but even so uk isn't that much less active we are in most places us were/are.; but its also possible you know to look at numbers on a war by war basis and draw from tht an overall comparison, which negates the effect of x has been in more wars than y.

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#36
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its true, most of the world hates america.


The world may hate America but we're the ones people look to in troubled times. It's a very love hate relationship we've put ourselves in. If we don't solve everyones problems the world hates us, if do to little, the world hates us, if we do to much the world hates us. If we do things just right, nobody cares.

Also saying America isn't doing enough for Japan is a counterproductive statement. If the Japanese ask for more help, we'll be there, and anyone else who is willing to help.
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#37
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^^^

you make fair points.

but this isn't about friendly fire :P

its about is america selfish, from my experience america seems very selfish. also scarily patriotic and uninformed (on the whole, i doubt anyone posting on this is in that category).

I can understand why it would seem that way to an outsider, but take my word for it - America on the whole isn't what you see on the news. If you took an average American and put them in a room with an average Brit, they would get along fine. Average Americans are more like me than anything else - not really giving a [cabbage] about politics, just going on with our little lives, and I imagine that the average Brit is the same way.

As for scarily patriotic and uninformed, I could agree with the patriotism to an extent but I definitely wouldn't say "scarily" patriotic. For uninformed, again, it depends who you're talking to. If they get their news from Fox, damn right they're probably uninformed, but again, most Brits who get their news from the Sun are also very uninformed.

The bottom line is that the typical person in a developed nation isn't very different from the typical person in another developed nation. Anyone who thinks otherwise has been convinced by biased media and stereotypes, nothing else.


I'd say this is largely true but I think America is slightly worse than other nations as most other nations don;t have such a patriotism kick even in day to day living and as covered earlier patriotism does sort of leading to higher levels of ignorance to things that don;t involve your country and a willingness to believe slanted news that doesn't show the negative side to your country. Which is sort of summarised nicely in the OPs picture, though obviously in an extremist sort of way.

>don't live in america
>make assertions about american culture even though you know very little about it


ಠ_ಠ

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#38
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^^^

you make fair points.

but this isn't about friendly fire :P

its about is america selfish, from my experience america seems very selfish. also scarily patriotic and uninformed (on the whole, i doubt anyone posting on this is in that category).

I can understand why it would seem that way to an outsider, but take my word for it - America on the whole isn't what you see on the news. If you took an average American and put them in a room with an average Brit, they would get along fine. Average Americans are more like me than anything else - not really giving a [cabbage] about politics, just going on with our little lives, and I imagine that the average Brit is the same way.

As for scarily patriotic and uninformed, I could agree with the patriotism to an extent but I definitely wouldn't say "scarily" patriotic. For uninformed, again, it depends who you're talking to. If they get their news from Fox, damn right they're probably uninformed, but again, most Brits who get their news from the Sun are also very uninformed.

The bottom line is that the typical person in a developed nation isn't very different from the typical person in another developed nation. Anyone who thinks otherwise has been convinced by biased media and stereotypes, nothing else.


I'd say this is largely true but I think America is slightly worse than other nations as most other nations don;t have such a patriotism kick even in day to day living and as covered earlier patriotism does sort of leading to higher levels of ignorance to things that don;t involve your country and a willingness to believe slanted news that doesn't show the negative side to your country. Which is sort of summarised nicely in the OPs picture, though obviously in an extremist sort of way.

>don't live in america
>make assertions about american culture even though you know very little about it


ಠ_ಠ


I know plenty enough about American culture, sure I've never lived in it. But I can safely say what the social effects of patriotism are and that America is more patriotic than like any other major nation these days.

I mean don;t most government buildings etc fly the american flag?
Isn't it not an important task to be putting the american flag up and down?
Don;t americans celebrate independence day a majorly patriotic holiday?
Don't a fair portion of schools (even if not the majority) do things where they quote tht pledge of allegiance thingy (again patriotic)?
Is it not illegal to burn the american flag?
etc.

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#39
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America isn't greedy, it's just....'Special'. Kinda weird how a country with a black-slavery related past can have so many white people saying that they feel 'oppressed'.
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Ok I know there'll be a load more posts by the time I post thus but Im gunna find sources..

About US friendly fire..

[link]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/apr/10/us-friendly-fire-justice-iraq[/link]

[link]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/22/american-troops-friendly-fire-iraq[/link]

[link]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/8082525/Wikileaks-Pentagon-logs-show-how-British-troops-repeatedly-came-under-friendly-fire.html[/link]


In my small amount of research it appears America do not give figures on incidents like this, it is very hard to determine. Oh and it does appear from the figures released that US and UK have same rates.

Mistratment and deliberate misinformation during Iraq

[link]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9325702[/link]

[link]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/22/iraq-war-logs-military-leaks[/link]

(by the way plenty of information about British bad behaviour aswell)

Us bombing Laos, aking it the most heavilly bombarded country per capita in the world, even though it was not involved in the Vietnam war particularly. Also continuing bombing for 2 years after the end of the Vietnam war.

[link]http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/334937,50000-laos-survey-finds.html[/link]

Detailing that 50,000 Laotians have been killed by the US.

[link]http://www.olive-drab.com/od_history_vietnam_laos.php[/link]

On the US forcing the Shah back into power and telling him to shooot on peaceful protesters = oh noo radical Islamic country that hates the US. So the US puts heavy sanctions on it making the country even more poor. Nice move guys keep the poor poor..

[link]http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BUE/is_2_139/ai_n17214766/[/link]

ah [bleep] im bored.

ok this doesnt show very much at all really. sorry lol.

edit:

oh i'm not saying anything bad against americans. im saying america. its hard to debate this, i think britains foreign policies are fairly atrocious. but yeah the standard brit, what can he do? same with america.

but the patriotism in america is a bit weird i find.

although people who say its the msot patiotic country.. dont know very much. no offense.
in Thailand the national anthem plays hourly in train stations, its ilegal to show disrespect to the king and they're in a war with Cambodia over an ancient temple. Cambodia is also a very patriotic country.

this is a siilly argument, but its just the fact the the US government and military make out like they're doing everythiung for the good of the world when in actual facts, they're not.




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