Powerfrog Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hey guys i just did two 30 minute trips at waterfiends because i wanted charms... But mainly because i wanted to see what would win, maul or rapier. Now everyone seems to think that maul spams 2000s and rapier can't hit once ever, this is not true at all. Stats: 84 attack 99 strength 78 prayer. Using piety and protect from range at all times on both trips. Using full void and other stuff you'll see in the vid, the only difference is the weapon (and d defender with rapier ofc)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9yUqcCjwVU *Chaotic maul*30 minutes = 60 crimson 2 gold 4 green 2 blues *Chaotic rapier*30 minutes = 59 crimson 4 green 3 gold So close!!! And this is only with 84 attack and supers... If i had 99 attack and extremes rapier would most likely beat the maul by quite a lot. I know that one 30 minute trip isn't a lot of evidence but i quite like killing waterfiends for some reason, and i want to get a lot more charms... So i think i'll be doing this a lot more and i'm going to log each trip. Both seem very close so i've got nothing to lose by using both of them really.I will be updating this thread every 2 trips i do, alternating with maul and rapier until i have some accurate figures on which is better. I will be leveling attack while doing this so rapier might start overtaking maul...(I may do 6 trips in 1 day, i may do 0 in a week. I'm just gonna do them when i feel like it.) If you have high attack and extremes i highly recommend you try rapier on your next waterfiend trip. You may be suprised with the results. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheat Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 One 30 minute trip is a ridiculously small sample size - to be honest I wouldn't be overly surprised if rapier was a fairly close runner up in terms of kph. Honestly though I wouldn't even make any aspersions until you have a larger sample size you'll just get slammed for it. Pedicabo ego vos et irrumaboMinigames: Level 5 in All Barbarian Assault Roles PM me in game or on these forums to play. Over 500 Castle Wars Games with 460+ Tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyneax Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 It's something that has been going around more - rapier probably is equal to maul, or better. It's a shame really, maul is much nicer to use. Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions 99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011) 99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012) 99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012) 99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013) 99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013) Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace 30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerfrog Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 One 30 minute trip is a ridiculously small sample size - to be honest I wouldn't be overly surprised if rapier was a fairly close runner up in terms of kph. Honestly though I wouldn't even make any aspersions until you have a larger sample size you'll just get slammed for it.I completely agree with this and if you read the post you would have realised that this is just the start, i plan on getting more trips and logging each one. This at least shows that rapier has potential. If anyone else would like to try this and record their kills (Preferable if you log how many kills per hour instead of charms, i just did charms because it's easier to keep track of.) then i'll gladly add it to the OP and make a huge database of results. For now though this is just going to be a solo project out of personal interest. I agree with the maul being nicer to use Quyneax, it's just a lot more satisfying getting super accurate 600s... Plus the weapon speed helps for picking up drops and i assume soulsplitting is easier too. Even if rapier is slightly more efficient i think i'll still use the maul on occasion just for the sake of using it. Also: Video is up now in the first post. Its just a 3 minute clip of me killing them with the rapier, i don't think i'd be capable of recording a full trip and i doubt anyone would want to actually see that. The clip is simply to show the gear/location/method and get a small grasp on the type of killrate that i was getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinII Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 When I killed them with my chaotic rapier I was getting less charms than I would with a chaotic maul, although the difference was pretty small. My stats were 90/90/90 in Melee, Turmoil flashing and overloaded. Soul Split + Turmoil flashing was a bit annoying with the rapier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godliest Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I don't have a Maul but at least I know safely now that Rapier is faster than Zamorak Spear now. >.> Godliest's Blog - Check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC3 Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Next time I get a waterfiends task I'll try doing it with a rapier. I've actually been noticing that rapier beats maul out on lots of crush weak monsters, and quite significantly, its unfortunate becuase maul is kinda fun to use lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerfrog Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Next time I get a waterfiends task I'll try doing it with a rapier. I've actually been noticing that rapier beats maul out on lots of crush weak monsters, and quite significantly, its unfortunate becuase maul is kinda fun to use lol.On a task rapier will be even better as it gets more out of the potential 18 strength bonus from b gloves and bandos. (Basically, each hit gets the extra strengh bonus of 18, so faster weapons benefit from it greater) Plus you'll be even more accurate :) "I've actually been noticing that rapier beats maul out on lots of crush weak monsters" To be perfectly honest there really are no monsters that are weak to one style of melee and absolute tanks against others outside of deamonhiem... Waterfiends are pretty much the only exception. Sure, dragons are weak to stab... But whip is still far better than other weapons such as leafbladed sword, i cringe everytime someone recommends something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Squab Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Remind me to try using rapier on my next task instead of ZS. Pity. Looking back, I kinda like how it's a task that requires something other then my standard melee kill weapon. Also, Ice Barrage should turn them into Ice Friends imo, but that's entirely beside the point >_> @ Above post: at certain low levels, it's sometimes worth it to say, take a LBS to dragons. Altho, this (probably) mainly applies to people who can't even use a whip lol. Honestly, most monsters weren't designed in a time where defenders, rapiers, extremes, piety/turmoil were out, when the idea of using potions/prayer and something better then a dragon was something that would be a very rare occurrence. Outside of DG and bosses, most new monsters don't seemed designed to reflect that either. Squab unleashes Megiddo! Completed all quests and hard diaries. 75+ Skiller. (At one point.) 2000+ total. 99 Magic.[spoiler=The rest of my sig. You know you wanna see it.]my difinition of noob is i dont like u, either u are better then me or u are worst them meBuying spins make you a bad person...don't do it. It's like buying nukes for North Korea.Well if it bothers you that the game is more fun now, then you can go cry in a corner. :shame:your article was the equivalent of a circumcized porcupineThe only thing wrong with it is the lack of a percentage for when you need to stroke it. Poignant Purple to Lokie's Ravishing Red and Alg's Brilliant Blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lose No Hope Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 It's being tested and believed that the rapier may be better than the maul. It has already been proven to be better than the ss and zspear. [hide]unbinding green's kidneys for ltk's heartdo you farm guam like me sir ltk[/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Delu Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Has anyone tested slash/stab with rapier? Also maybe the cls on slash (or stab) could be better than both raiper and maul. 2496 total achieved June 30, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saradomin_Mage Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Slash has already been shown to be a terrible attack style against waterfiends, which is how people experimented and eventually turned to ZS/SS in the first place.Now they're testing to see if rapier's stab can outdps maul's crush in these given circumstances. I don't think CLS' stab will be able to outperform rapier in this case. In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Delu Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 To be fair though, with cls, fire cape, barrows gloves, and dragon defender I get 171 slash bonus. Thats certainly loads more than people had back in the day and it could work. 2496 total achieved June 30, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerfrog Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 To be fair though, with cls, fire cape, barrows gloves, and dragon defender I get 171 slash bonus. Thats certainly loads more than people had back in the day and it could work.CLS is the middle child here. Maul works by being slow yet powerful and accurate. Rapier makes up for its inaccuracy and slightly less powerful hits by being much faster. CLS is only slightly more accurate than the rapier and way too slow to ever be the best of the 3. By all means you can go test the CLS if you think it will be better, but i'm fairly certain it will not beat the maul or the rapier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Delu Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I am doing a waterfiends task right now. I brought both rapier and cls to compare them and I think rapier is better than cls. I am 99 attack with extremes and piety though so maybe things are different with turmoil. Also i definitely haven't done enough with either of them to give a definitive answer, just an initial observation. 2496 total achieved June 30, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saradomin_Mage Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Turmoil on Waterfiends is worse, because Waterfiends don't have any attack or strength levels, so your turmoil boost would have 5% less attack than your piety boost. In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamfarming Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Hm so it's pretty much the general consensus that rapier is much better than zs/ss at waterfiends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nattylite4me Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I just did a triple charm trip with a CR and I got a lot less charms then I did with an SS. I got 180 Crimsons with CR and the previous 5 charm trips with and SS Ii had gotten 215-250 crimsons. Granted, this is a very small sample size but when I was doing the trip I could feel I was hitting a lot more ofteen then I did with SS. (sometimes 5-7 0 hits in a row, a couple of time the streak was longer) What I was using/Stats: 90 Melees95 HP90 MageRapierPietyExtremesUnicornEEE for specsNezzy helm, glory, karils, dragon boots, ardy cape 3, barrows gloves, d defender, row Used the same set up with SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyneax Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 You're not on task or using void, that's certainly going to hurt your average, and glory/row just make for more unmaxed gear all of which favours the maul. Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions 99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011) 99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012) 99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012) 99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013) 99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013) Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace 30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nattylite4me Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 You're not on task or using void, that's certainly going to hurt your average, and glory/row just make for more unmaxed gear all of which favours the maul. Not to sound ignorant or dumb, but if all the constants for both experiments are the same and the only variable that is different is the weapon, what does it matter? If I was on task I would still be getting the 15% using the CR that I would get using the SS. The same would be said for if I replaced a glory and row with a fury and imbued ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfield Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 You're not on task or using void, that's certainly going to hurt your average, and glory/row just make for more unmaxed gear all of which favours the maul. Not to sound ignorant or dumb, but if all the constants for both experiments are the same and the only variable that is different is the weapon, what does it matter? If I was on task I would still be getting the 15% using the CR that I would get using the SS. The same would be said for if I replaced a glory and row with a fury and imbued ring. For different variables held constant you will get different results due to how the accuracy and str formulas work out. You are right, whether you are on task or not doesn't matter. However whether you wear a fury or not changes things (it works to close the gap between the weapons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuuskukk14 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 You're not on task or using void, that's certainly going to hurt your average, and glory/row just make for more unmaxed gear all of which favours the maul. Not to sound ignorant or dumb, but if all the constants for both experiments are the same and the only variable that is different is the weapon, what does it matter? If I was on task I would still be getting the 15% using the CR that I would get using the SS. The same would be said for if I replaced a glory and row with a fury and imbued ring.The speed of the weapon, you get more out of the FSH/void/str boost with a faster weapon. But.... he said he used a SS not c maul, Quyneax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfield Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 hm okay, so actually whether you're on task or not can matter too, under certain conditions. Once you reach 50% accuracy on the target, gains in accuracy result in diminished returns. So with the rapier vs sarasword if it turned out with your particular set-up rapier resulted in 40% accuracy and ss in 50%, the slayer helm would increase the dps of the rapier by a higher percentage than it would the dps of the ss. A heuristic argument for why rapier could very well be better than the maul, is that the maul becomes "too accurate" (i.e > 50%) with the optimal gear, so accuracy becomes less important, allowing the chaotic rapier's higher dps to win out. The question is if it get's to this point or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nattylite4me Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 So, if I were to use a fury/imbued rign instead of a glory/row it would benefit the Rapier more then the SS? Even though they are both the same speed? Or are you just saying it needs to be tested becuase it could affect the two weapons differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfield Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 It would shrink the accuracy difference of the two weapons, giving the chaotic rapier's superior str more weight. So it would end up benefitting the rapier more. It's slightly confusing to think about because you're not attacking with the same style, but yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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