35 replies to this topic

[999134]

QFC: 14-15-92-63685396 original thread.

I doubt this thread will make any impact at all, but decided to write down my thoughts and some facts about the huge amounts of begging and scamming that goes on in runescape today.
Also note, this is not a rant, so do not move it there.

Begging methods.

"Selling toy horse 1k/have a free toy horse/Saving for rune armour"
Anyone you see saying this generally is not really wanting to sell the horse for 1k, they are hoping you give them some cash out of pity for them being so useless at runescape (same for saving for rune armour and all other variants of people selling items for really low amounts). These people are everywhere, and people fund them which fuels their spam and really gets in the way of gameplay.

"Taking donations for good karma/selling lucky horse" (at duel arena generally)
Another variant, these people are extremely irritating and generally use auto typers to get in the way of everyone.

"50k plz got hacked"
Again another form of begging, they have not been hacked they just cannot be bothered to work for their cash, and hope people take pity of them.

Scamming methods - Basically begging because they are so bad, and you generally deserve it if you fall for them.

"doubling cash"
They offer to double your cash, seems legit

"flower gaming!/Hot/hot"
This is a scam EVEN IF THEY PAY OUT on a win, you are playing a game heavily stocked in their favor, they are just begging in a more interesting way. Also of course the scams who don't pay out.


For the general Rs public - Why should I care?
Aside from the obvious annoyance, this attitude that I deserve money and do not want to work for it is driving rs down the drain, RWT, Squeal of fortune, dicing, begging and scamming all come from a refusal to work and it is this which is ruining rs, not jagex's updates as people are all to happy to preach.
These people can  be helped, tell them how to make money and most of all, DO NOT SUPPORT THEM.

The amount of people I see giving for example 10m out to the person who gave them a lucky horse and acted like a noob is depressing, these people make a profit out of doing this, and you are fueling the attitude which will surely doom us all! Little bit of an overstatement, but not much of one.

I cannot stress the importance of never giving in to beggers and scammers, if it was not profitable then people would not do it!

A message to the beggars/anyone poor!
It is not all doom and gloom! Just because you cannot afford bandos right now and it seems impossible to reach without crying until someone gives it to you, it is possible to work towards it with not that much effort. Green dragon killing for example is a great low level money maker, just be smart and search youtube/forums for good guides!
Most important bit- Even if people are giving you 100k every now and then because you are selling toy horses, think how much more cash you could have made in that time through even the worst money makers!
You may think it is impossible to get a party hat without scamming or cheating, but nex and staking are amazing money makers, Anyone can do staking but obviously it comes with risk, stakers lose just as much money as you see them winning, they are not magic gods to be begged from!



Also, your methods do generally do not work and prevent you from making friends on runescape. You will find it hard to form a bandos team from people you were begging from or scamming, it is much better to meet people in general runescape and form monster hunting or pking teams, than stand around the ge for hours shouting doubling cash.

A further note on dicing and flower games.
These are designed in order to take cash from you, the odds are always not in your favour and you will always end up getting cleaned in the long run, the people you see making bils are always the hosts, who make their cash either through laughable odds (60:40?!! irl casinos give much much much better odds).

Cash is also made by selling ranks in these scam ccs, you do not even need a cc for flower gaming or lrc dicing!
- Little off topic, but do not think it is the way forward to start flower gaming or dicing!
Everyone also hates the people in the ge and on pk worlds with the constant hot/cold spam, again showing how far runescape has gone towards instant gratification.

"THIS IS JAGEX'S FAULT JHADFJASDFH SOF SUCKS UPDATES SUCK YOU KILL GAME"
- The reason runescape may seem to be worse nowadays is due to the quality of people ingame, you are constantly spammed by rwt adds (people are too lazy to work for gold), beggars (see previous) and scammers/games hosts (see 2 previous).
- Runescape the game is better than ever! (aside from pj timer, fix that jagex!) The quality of updates is generally good (I see SOF as a result of the community sliding into supporting lazyness, if no one bought spins then jagex would remove it). The wilderness is back and you have epic bosses like nex and a load of high end game content.

How can we get a better community? I don't want to talk with the noobs.
- Everyone started out as a noob, or as an 11 year old playing runescape. Elitism in for example not dungeoneering with lower levels in order to max out xp/hr prevents these people from ever getting good, and supports the pathetic practice that is selling floors, as these newbs (not noob) cannot learn how to train the skill themselves effectively.
- Tell people begging how they are negatively effecting the game, and that they will have more fun and get cash faster by playing runescape how it is intended to be played.
- For gods sake stop with the selling toy horse 1k thing.
- Rich players were once like you and worked for their cash, you can do it to.
- You do not deserve all 99s instantly, working hard for them is a reward it itself, which you would ruin by getting prayer through cash you begged for, for example.
- Keep your private on! Use your ignore list but talk to people on rs!




Wrote this in a rsof style so may seem a little informal for a tif post and contain too many (!s) and spelling errors.

[Sy_Accursed]

This is nothing new.
These issues have been just as widespread ever since rs first launched, sure they have evolved with the game the same way the good elements have but they are nothing new and certainly not to directly blame for any big issues because they have been so constant. Blaming them for a change is like blaming the tree that's been at the end of your garden for the past thirty years for the fact the door lock broke one day.

[Dragonlordjl]

Well said.

The problem is, and has always been, the game is targeted towards someone who is in their low/mid teens and those kinds of people are immature and lack any kind of work ethic. They are used to having their parents buy everything for them, so they expect immediate gratification-- they don't know how to set goals and work towards them; they want what they want and they want it NOW.

There isn't any way to fix the community, either. Even if everyone does their part and doesn't encourage these behaviors, there will always be many more noobs than mature, experienced players.

[Assume Nothing]

Could you restructure it so its actually worth reading?  It looks like broken paragraphs of a repetitious rant on begging to me.

[999134]

Assume Nothing, on 14 April 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Could you restructure it so its actually worth reading?  It looks like broken paragraphs of a repetitious rant on begging to me.

the structure on rsof is very limited and you cut out half the readers if you use a word longer than 7 letters, may edit my tif later.


Also while these issues are not new, I remember scammers in 2006, it is just much more a problem today with every bank and the ge holding host to the now familiar hot/cold games, and someone selling a toy horse.

[Omali]

999134, on 14 April 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Assume Nothing, on 14 April 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Could you restructure it so its actually worth reading?  It looks like broken paragraphs of a repetitious rant on begging to me.

the structure on rsof is very limited and you cut out half the readers if you use a word longer than 7 letters, may edit my tif later.


Also while these issues are not new, I remember scammers in 2006, it is just much more a problem today with every bank and the ge holding host to the now familiar hot/cold games, and someone selling a toy horse.

The GE scammers of today are merely the World 2 Falador scammers of old who used the fast-paced nature of trades coupled with the lag and lack of anti-scam measures to trick people into trading for similar looking items or simply by removing the item at the last second and hoping the other person is in enough of a rush that they don't notice.

And the begging/entitlement problem is a cultural issue that goes beyond what any of us in RuneScape might hope to fix.

[999134]

I used to use world 2 fally a lot, and despite rose tinted glasses I remember scammers (including the classic free sharks trade me) but they did not get in the way of legitimate trading or playing, most(/more) people were also careful enough to not fall for quick switches back than as well.
My main point is today they really do get in the way of enjoying gameplay.

[Sy_Accursed]

999134, on 14 April 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

My main point is today they really do get in the way of enjoying gameplay.

They don't for me.
I don't see more of it going on particularly and it doesn't hinder anything.

One you have to consider, alongside rose tinted glasses is old days trading the entire place was utterly spammed beyond belief without everyone having to yell their buy/sell offers every few minutes so the noise of the scammers got drowned out. These days GE takes place of trade shouting, therefore you can notice the scammers more.

I really don't see any change i respects to these issues from 01 to now, aside from the slightly evolutions that take advantage of new things while losing some old methods. and I certainly don't see them as to blame for anything.

[Zerker_Jane]

I'm guessing you were too newby back in the day to see these problems always existed/were the problem and saw it as not a big deal.

[swedishboy5]

The main problem here is that people simply don't want to work for their money. And that is what is ruining the game, just as you say. It is not always Jagex's fault that RS goes downhill. We as a community has a great responsibility as well.
Good post. I think that it will actually have an effect, even if just a small one. Good work posting this, 999.

[Rock Hard]

swedishboy5, on 14 April 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

The main problem here is that people simply don't want to work for their money.

I know right, they just want to play games and have fun in their spare time. How dare they?!

[Crocefisso]

Omali, on 14 April 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

And the begging/entitlement problem is a cultural issue that goes beyond what any of us in RuneScape might hope to fix.

Very well said.  

[Fallstar]

Begging really gets on my nerves. Its not like someone who you're good friends with asking for you to lend them a bit of cash for bonus xp weekend or whatever, these random strangers who I have absolutely no connection with ask me for my money. Why. What goes through their heads that would make them think I would give them anything of mine, let alone the fact that you'd expect people to have some minimum level of dignity and pride even in an online situation. Evidently this is not the case.

[Frozen]

Quote

Quote

And the begging/entitlement problem is a cultural issue that goes beyond what any of us in RuneScape might hope to fix.

Very well said.

(halp with not quoting like an idiot? haha)

^ Those, so much!

Problems with Runescape, as they are human problems, are just a result of the world and culture the game is contained in. Wanna know why Rune is seeing so many issues? Attitude. Look to the rest of the world for your answer there. I actually wanted to submit an article on the topic but I suppose the shorthand crossed here gets it across just as well.

[Assume Nothing]

999134, on 14 April 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Assume Nothing, on 14 April 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Could you restructure it so its actually worth reading?  It looks like broken paragraphs of a repetitious rant on begging to me.

the structure on rsof is very limited and you cut out half the readers if you use a word longer than 7 letters, may edit my tif later.


Also while these issues are not new, I remember scammers in 2006, it is just much more a problem today with every bank and the ge holding host to the now familiar hot/cold games, and someone selling a toy horse.

I'm not suggesting that it requires advanced terminology, unlike our Times articles - I'm just telling you that the bullet point structure you had written in didn't deliver the message as well as you had supposedly intended to - it clearly lacked precision.  If you're going to write anything like this again, I'd suggest concluding your thoughts on your paragraphs as to not leave the reader puzzled.

As Omali has noted, much of the begging/entitlement issues is far beyond RuneScape - it's a social/cultural issue.  I don't understand how it makes game-play so much more unenjoyable though - care to explain?

[Assume Nothing]

Fallstar, on 14 April 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Begging really gets on my nerves. Its not like someone who you're good friends with asking for you to lend them a bit of cash for bonus xp weekend or whatever, these random strangers who I have absolutely no connection with ask me for my money. Why. What goes through their heads that would make them think I would give them anything of mine, let alone the fact that you'd expect people to have some minimum level of dignity and pride even in an online situation. Evidently this is not the case.

It's funny, because I see that the problem is worse the other way round.  If a friend had asked for money, you're almost forced to acquiesce to protect a valued friendship, which could be seen as exploitative/abusive - although it's arguable since friends are supposed to be understanding.

If it was someone who had no relationship with you, the rejection would have no social repercussions, and as such - does not hinder game-play.  It's disrespectful and naive - but it wouldn't stop me from enjoying the game as it's separate from the game altogether.

[Powerfrog]

Anonymous people on the internet are [wagon]/beg for things. Shocking. Ignore them.

It seems like you put a lot of effort into this thread, but it ends up reading like the ramblings of a mad man. "Beggars, stop begging. People that give money to beggars, stop giving money to beggars." sums it up quite nicely.

You seem to think that everyone you see in runescape is a part of the community and has close friends like you do. Many do not. They don't care a tiny bit what someone has to say about Drgnkila24 (Their account name) because they don't identify with that account as much as you do with yours, so making them feel bad for begging isn't going to work.

[Fallstar]

Assume Nothing, on 14 April 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

Fallstar, on 14 April 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

Begging really gets on my nerves. Its not like someone who you're good friends with asking for you to lend them a bit of cash for bonus xp weekend or whatever, these random strangers who I have absolutely no connection with ask me for my money. Why. What goes through their heads that would make them think I would give them anything of mine, let alone the fact that you'd expect people to have some minimum level of dignity and pride even in an online situation. Evidently this is not the case.

It's funny, because I see that the problem is worse the other way round.  If a friend had asked for money, you're almost forced to acquiesce to protect a valued friendship, which could be seen as exploitative/abusive - although it's arguable since friends are supposed to be understanding.

If it was someone who had no relationship with you, the rejection would have no social repercussions, and as such - does not hinder game-play.  It's disrespectful and naive - but it wouldn't stop me from enjoying the game as it's separate from the game altogether.

If you don't have the cash to lend or just don't want to then just say, its a friend after all. I hardly meant it as the "10m or delete" kind of 'friend'.

Quote

Anonymous people on the internet are [wagon]/beg for things. Shocking. Ignore them.

It seems like you put a lot of effort into this thread, but it ends up reading like the ramblings of a mad man. "Beggars, stop begging. People that give money to beggars, stop giving money to beggars." sums it up quite nicely.

You seem to think that everyone you see in runescape is a part of the community and has close friends like you do. Many do not. They don't care a tiny bit what someone has to say about Drgnkila24 (Their account name) because they don't identify with that account as much as you do with yours, so making them feel bad for begging isn't going to work.

I wouldn't say its making people feel bad for begging; if they felt bad about it they'd stop doing it (I mean, its an online game, its not like someone who is forced into it as some people irl who beg are) . Rather, its about why people do it in the first place.

[Locke_Superbus]

I would have thought the Thatcher stooges/Libertarians would be far too busy brown-nosing the wealthy and each other as they look for problems to create so they can sell snake oil that they wouldn't have any time to play or comment on games.  After all they don't have time to reflect on their sociopathy and hypocrisy of lecturing about how people suck and deserve everything bad done to them and shouldnt be allowed to complain because 'entitlement'.

While doing this they of course make it abundantly clear they feel they are entitled to tell everyone else what to do and shouldn't be criticized, have any rules placed on them or suffer any minor inconvenience because 'life's not fair (so lets make it even less so!)' and they've gotten everything without help so everyone (except those who start ahead) should have to too!

If people would just stop feeling entitled then the rugged individualist ubermensch wouldnt have to save you from yourselves, see its all your fault you entitled socialist filth, how dare you make the successful give anything back they obviously deserve everything they get regardless of the means so theyre entitled to everything they can get their hands on regardless the consequences thereof, cant you stupid plebs see your entitlement is what is destroying the world?

[swedishboy5]

Gid, on 14 April 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

swedishboy5, on 14 April 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

The main problem here is that people simply don't want to work for their money.

I know right, they just want to play games and have fun in their spare time. How dare they?!

Runescape is a game, but if you didn't have to put some effort in to get somewhere in the game, it wouldn't be fun anymore. What would happen if Christmas crackers were dropped again all over RS you think? Suddenly all those party hats would lose a lot of value...
The reason to why money has a value is because it is a challenge to get it. And to scam/lure/beg to get it is just wrong. You should "work" for your money, not try to get it through unfair ways.
Once again: Good post, 999.