comment about dps on tds

[enfield]

so - just a minor correction to how we might want to be discussing which weapons to use at tds (or at anything which prayer switches in the way that tds do).

 

Rather than calculate dps by averaging the dps of the melee and range or melee and magic components, we should weight the components by their maximum damage. (the reason the weight is simply linear in max hit may be obvious enough to accept, but it can also be verified empirically).

 

implications are: karils x-bow is better in relation to the hand cannon than we thought it was, with the same observation going for c maul and c rapier (because we want to minimize the damage of the weaker style and maximize the damage of the stronger style for maximum dps).

 

now there are other considerations - like how fast you can switch weapons and so on (so there is some value to also minimizing the number of switches and degree of difficulty of each one); however, i think this is just as important a consideration, and one that i have not seen made.

 

So, if you are scavenging for leverage in your td efficiency arguments, you can use this fact.

[Hedgehog]

Rather than try to unscramble what you're saying, I'll just say this:

 

The reason hand cannon was better than kxbow was that it had a higher chance of hitting over 300(?) damage. This means that the td wouldn't stay on melee prayer for as long.

[enfield]

aw it's not really that scrambled is it? i think maybe it's something that to be explained well needs terms to be defined and so on. but no one likes learning terms. alternatively, i think it is something that is maybe flawed.

 

==

 

it doesn't follow that because the hand cannon hits higher than the x bow that the td will stay on melee prayer for a shorter amount of time. If the hand cannon was really slow, that might not be true.

 

I don't want to go into a long scambled explanation again *sigh*. but one can calculate how much damage a range weapon does per period of the TD praying melee (like by simulating it a bunch of times). (if the weapon is really weak it will be ~300). this is an important quantity. if your range weapon does an average of 380 damage per period of TD prayer melee, and your melee weapon 450 damage per period of TD praying range, then you can figure out how much easy style contributes to the kill (for example the range weapon would contribute 100*380/(450+380)% of the kill on average

 

do you follow that? it is true i have some slight internal confusion about something i said in the OP. but it's very slight and i think i resolved it.

 

the confusion was about whether weapons on TDS inflict damage in a theoretically uniform way (i.e even numbers of each hitsplat). even though you switch weapons at non-random times, the answer must be yes. so, i think ]everything i said is okay.

[Hedgehog]

Tds switch prayers when you do 300 (or something around there) damage. If it takes kxbow 2 hits to force it to switch prayers, and hc only takes one, then hc is better.

[enfield]

if that was always true, then what you said would be obviously correct. but that's not how it works - about half the time the hc takes two hits, and if the hand cannon ended up doing more damage per period of melee pray of the TD than the x bow, that is not necessarily a good thing - that means more of the kill it being done by the weapon with the lower dps (hc) than the one with higher dps (chaotic maul).

 

it's okay if you're not willing to read my posts carefully on this thread. i guess you think that minimizing # of switches is the most important consideration. i think another consideration is more important - the consideration of how much % of the kill each of your styles do (of course this only matters when the dps of each style differ significantly, but that does turn out to be the case). the % of the kill each style does is proportional to the maximum hit of the style. if range is significantly weaker than melee, then there's some value in reducing the percentage of the kill that it is responsible for (for example by using a maul and the x-bow instead of a rapier and a hc).

 

sorry i'm repeating myself. the value of this thread is dependent on it being an obvious adjustment to make. turns out it's not obvious, so i don't think it's valuable. i would like you to be able to understand what i'm saying, but it's something i can live without.

[Quyneax]

The reason hand cannon was better than kxbow was that it had a higher chance of hitting over 300(?) damage. This means that the td wouldn't stay on melee prayer for as long.

Not true. Hand cannon simply had higher dps.

 

You want the highest average DPS, hunting tds. You achieve that by using the highest dps weapon you can as much as possible.

 

For example, you would use rapier + maul + kxbow. Maul would have higher dps than kxbow (especially in void), rapier still higher dps. You would use rapier first, and if it hits below 310, you maul or claw spec. This ensures most damage is done by higher dps weapons. With steel titan, ranged is higher dps of course (and magic is higher dps than maul also).

[Taltin]

I've done quite a bit of TDs, and I prefer Karil's crossbow over a handcannon.

[Quyneax]

I've done quite a bit of TDs, and I prefer Karil's crossbow over a handcannon.

The hand cannon got stealth nerfed months ago :(. It is now one speed slower so it'd be very surprising if you preferred it still.

[NealolaeN]

I'm not sure if I'm quite following what you're all talking about, but using polypore staff is a very good method, usually averaging about 410 max damage at 90 mage with overload (brings mage up to 97). Also, polypore is a [fairly] fast hitting weapon, and most of the time it WILL hit the required 300 damage in just one attack turn to switch it from melee to magic prayer.

 

Because of this, both weapons I use deal about the same amount of damage which I figure is probably one of best things about this method since you don't need to worry about which style is getting the majority of damage dealing time.

 

I don't know how this stands up to other people, but with average-ish skills (96 atk/99 str/90 mage) I'm taking down a little over 2 demons per overload dose.

 

Again, I'm not sure if this is quite what you wanted, but this is what I have noticed so far using polypore staff with CLS as melee weapon.

 

~NealolaeN~