Repair Kits for Port Armor and Scrimshaws using Trade Goods and Resources

[NukeMarine]

[qfc]74-75-527-64218174[/qfc]

 

[Edit: Changed suggested hours to 3 hours vice 10. In addition, yes I know that superior armor does not turn to dust, has higher stats and can be repaired. This is about economics of port, not a non-tradeable end game item]

 

TL-DR: Allow players to add 3 hours to the tradeable versions of PoP armor using a repair kit made from port resources and a small amount of the trade goods. Tradeable PoP armor now turns to "decayed" instead of disappearing (but is still unusable) when it's combat time or is dropped in PvP combat.

 

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~~ Introduction ~~

 

Tradeable PoP armor while being the strongest in the game only last 10 hours. This armor in turn requires numerous voyages and lots of passive time in the real world just to create it. It is approaching the point where the time involved to create these versus the amount other players are willing to pay for it will not match. That will mean that after port players make their superior armor, they will stop the mini-game.

 

While it would be disastrous to the longevity of PoP to make these items repairable using gp, allowing repair kits made using port resources would give much more life to PoP and bring more value to PoP armor overall.

 

This suggestion allows players to use port resources and trade goods to create a specific "repair kit" for each armor piece which is used on a degraded or decayed PoP armor (which no longer disappears after 10 hours of use). For example, Port players can make a "Testu Body Repair Kit" which they can sell to a non-port player or on the GE. That kit is then used on a degraded Testu Body which brings it back to three hours of combat use.

 

 

~~ Repair Kits ~~

 

Tradeable item used to repair decayed or degraded PoP armor. Repair Kits help alleviate the need to trade degraded armor to repair. Players make repair kits at their PoP workshop. The player must have the scroll for that armor part to make its repair kit. The cost will be 1/10th the trade goods plus a certain amount of chimes, cherrywood, jade and stainless steel. The XP to make these will be 1/5th. After it is created, players can trade these to other players or on the GE.

 

The mechanics are simple. Tradeable PoP armor and scrimshaws become degraded on initial use and decayed after their hours of use are up, they get dropped in PvP combat or dropped on purpose for whatever reasons. The decayed armor and scrimshaw pieces are tradeable much like other items in the game such as Barrows. Using the specific repair kit on that particular armor piece or scrimshaw brings the back to use (3 hours for armor, 1 hours for scrimshaws). While the items have time left, they remain untradeable.

 

In addition, these repair kits work on superior armor and scrimshaws. First, they can only be used on the decayed superior items. Use a repair kit on superior armor and 10 hours is restored. Use the scrimshaw repair kit on superior scrimshaws to restore 4 hours.

 

~ Body Repair Kits ~

 

8 trade goods, 4000 chimes, 3000 cherrywood, 2000 jade, 1000 stainless steel

6k xp awarded

Restores 3 hours of use on tradeable armor, 10 hours on superior armor

 

~ Leg Repair Kits ~

 

5 trade goods, 2700 chimes, 2000 cherrywood, 1350 jade, 650 stainless steel

4k xp awarded

 

Restores 3 hours of use on tradeable armor, 10 hours on superior armor

 

~ Head Repair Kits ~

 

3 trade goods, 1300 chimes, 1000 cherrywood, 650 jade, 350 stainless steel

2k xp awarded

Restores 3 hours of use on tradeable armor, 10 hours on superior armor

 

~ Scrimshaw Repair Kits ~

 

1 bone, 400 chimes, 300 cherrywood, 200 jade, 100 stainless steel

800 xp fletching

Restores 1 hour of use on lesser scrimshaws, 4 hours on superior scrimshaws

 

 

~~ Detailed Justification ~~

 

1. If you think of a repair kit as something that gives another 10 hours of use, then the repair kit already exists in the game. It's called the Tetsu Plate. Use 80 plates to make a Tetsu Body "repair kit". Use that new "repair kit" and get 10 more hours of combat. So 1 hour of combat is 8 plates.

 

1a. I could make a suggestion that people can make a Tetsu Body Repair Kit for 8 plates to trade, and using that kit adds 1 hour of combat to a Testu Body. Do you as a port player think this is a reasonable suggestion? Ten repair kits cost 80 plates to make and gives 10 hours of combat, the same as if one bought an entire Tetsu Body.

 

2. The number of trade good voyages to collect 8 plates is about two in the Pincers, but they're not common voyages. It might be one day to one week of voyages before a player collects 8 plates. Now, during this time he is collecting other material. Let me ask, if you find 1a reasonable, what if we add on the requirement for 4k chimes, 3k cherrywood, 2k jade and 1k steel? If 8 plates alone is reasonable for 1 hour, would those additional resources to add 3 hours of combat be an acceptable change?

 

2a. If (2) is reasonable, then if 80 plates for 1 Tetsu Body add 10 hours of combat (like it does now) then it should be reasonable for 80 plates, 40k chimes, 30k cherrywood, 20k jade and 10k steel to make 10 repair kits that add 30 hours of combat.

 

3. I argue (1a) replicates what exists in game, just allowing players to offer "repairs" in 1/10 chunks. I also think that (2a) does not take away too much from this in that one still requires the number of voyages to get 8 plates and a lot of resources to justify the 3 hours of combat vice 1 hour.

 

3a. The use of 3 hours can just as easily be 4 hours, 5 hours or even 10 hours. Three hours means 10 kits give you 30 hours of combat, 5 hours would mean 50 hours and 10 hours means 10 kits get you 100 hours. After discussion on another forum, 10 hours seems too much for the cost and 1 hour is definitely not enough if you require resources. 3 hours definitely (or 5 hours maybe) sounds the most fair and balanced.

 

3b. In all this, its easy to change the proportion of trade goods and port resources in regards to the other types of armor (repair kit adding 1 hour to scrimshaws). It can even apply to Superior armor and Scrimshaws by offering double or triple combat time if used on those degraded items. So, a Tetsu Body Repair Kit used on a tradeable Tetsu Body gives 3 hours of combat while the repair kit used on Degraded Superior Tetsu Body gives it 10 hours of combat.

 

4. I think gathering the additional resources make this much more difficult and time consuming. While this has only talked about Tetsu Plate, if a player is collecting other trade goods he'll also have to collect resources for them if they want to make repair kits. Anyone that wanted to upgrade their buildings know that its a cost/benefit trade off by taking voyages in the various regions.

 

~~Summary~~

 

A very balanced approach for tradeable PoP armor to be repaired. It allows Port players to use their trade resources earlier and much more often. This offers incentive to continue collecting resources in PoP and to get upgrades that increase resources. The repair costs are attached to value players give to time and effort spent on voyages in the Port mini-game and not just to gp. Other players now have an incentive to use the armor much more. The armor if used in PvP now has value for the opponent as a potential drop.

 

To put this in perspective: How much would you sell a full set of trade kits that cost you 20 lacquers, 8000 chimes, 6000 cherrywood, 4000 jade, and 2000 stainless steel? How much would you buy those three kits that gave another 10 hours of use to your 150 million gp set of armor?

 

Should be an easy update and a no brainer.

 

PS: This helps prevent Seppuku by those armorers that created a tradeable Testu Body and accidentally equipped it. While it still creates a loss, better to lose 1/10th to 1/5th the cost via a repair kit than the 100% loss you'd gt now due to a misclick from lag. Basically, the player would drop the armor to make it decayed, then sell it.

[Sy_Accursed]

Dislike. All it would do is undermine the value of the tradable armour in the first place by removing the penalty of it being 1 use then it's gone, a mechanic which is designed purposefully to make it expensive to use and thus offer a big boon to those who can make their own.

[Caco`]

Dislike. All it would do is undermine the value of the tradable armour in the first place by removing the penalty of it being 1 use then it's gone, a mechanic which is designed purposefully to make it expensive to use and thus offer a big boon to those who can make their own.

 

/thread

[NukeMarine]

Dislike. All it would do is undermine the value of the tradable armour in the first place by removing the penalty of it being 1 use then it's gone, a mechanic which is designed purposefully to make it expensive to use and thus offer a big boon to those who can make their own.

 

/thread

Before you end the thread allow me to retort. First, I could argue that it would not undermine the value of PoP armor and may in fact increase the value overall of Player Owned Port items. Currently to create a full set of armor, one needs 160 of the specific trade goods which come in groups of 4. I've yet to see the stats on chance per voyage for specific trade goods, however it still is going to take 40 voyages of 13 hours each assuming 100% accomplishment (not counting the one shot Adventurer story voyages). It takes a long time to make these armors even if the active time is minimal. On top of that, as they only last 10 hours so people buying these at the moment (and likely from here on out) are doing it.

 

Look at those numbers: 40 voyages, 520 hours real world time for a set that's getting cheaper and cheaper because nobody wants to spend a lot for 10 hours. Congratulations, you're getting 100% of nothing.

 

The idea suggested above does a few things to mitigate this. Yes, it technically extends the life of armor by 90 hours in that 160 trade makes the first set (10 hours) while another 160 trade goods make 10 sets of repair kits (100 hours). So instead of the 320 trade goods making 20 hours you get 100 hours. However, since those 10 repair kit sets also require a lot of resources (80k chimes, 60k cherrywood, 40k jade, 20k steel) I doubt any Port player would sell them for 1/10th the price of armor. I think a player would sell them for 1/5th or more. On top of this, instead of waiting 40 voyages to see a profit a player could sell repair kits for a full armor set after four voyages.

 

If you haven't figured it out, this is the razor blade model of business. The PoP Armor and Scrimshaws are the Razors. The repair kits become the razor blades. You turn something that only specialist like barbers used due to cost and upkeep into something everyone one wants to buy and continue to use.

 

You have to look at the long term here. This idea puts to use port resources that currently lose all value after you've upgraded all buildings, ships and crew. It reduces the voyages needed to see profits on slow to collect trade goods. It offers a cheaper method to upkeep valuable armor while keeping the method of upkeep in the hands of Port players.

 

So yes, type /thread all you want. I think there's merit in continuing the discussion.

[100]

Accursed already said everything.

[NukeMarine]

Let me add some ideas to this. For simplicity sakes I'll be talking about the tradable Tetsu Body which takes 80 plates to make (about 20 trade good voyages) and currently sells for 70 mill gp.

 

1. If you think of a repair kit as something that gives another 10 hours of use, then the repair kit already exists in the game. It's called the Tetsu Plate. Use 80 plates to make a Tetsu Body "repair kit". Use that new "repair kit" and get 10 more hours of combat. So 1 hour of combat is 8 plates.

 

1a. I could make a suggestion that people can make a Tetsu Body Repair Kit for 8 plates to trade, and using that kit adds 1 hour of combat to a Testu Body. Do you as a port player think this is a reasonable suggestion? Ten repair kits cost 80 plates to make and gives 10 hours of combat, the same as if one bought an entire Tetsu Body.

 

2. The number of trade good voyages to collect 8 plates is about two in the Pincers, but they're not common voyages. It might be one day to one week of voyages before a player collects 8 plates. Now, during this time he is collecting other material. Let me ask, if you find 1a reasonable, what if we add on the requirement for 4k chimes, 3k cherrywood, 2k jade and 1k steel? If 8 plates alone is reasonable for 1 hour, would those additional resources to add 3 hours of combat be an acceptable change?

 

2a. If (2) is reasonable, then if 80 plates for 1 Tetsu Body add 10 hours of combat (like it does now) then it should be reasonable for 80 plates, 40k chimes, 30k cherrywood, 20k jade and 10k steel to make 10 repair kits that add 30 hours of combat.

 

3. I argue (1a) replicates what exists in game, just allowing players to offer "repairs" in 1/10 chunks. I also think that (2a) does not take away too much from this in that one still requires the number of voyages to get 8 plates and a lot of resources to justify the 3 hours of combat vice 1 hour.

 

3a. The use of 3 hours can just as easily be 4 hours, 5 hours or even 10 hours. Three hours means 10 kits give you 30 hours of combat, 5 hours would mean 50 hours and 10 hours means 10 kits get you 100 hours. After discussion on another forum, 10 hours seems too much for the cost and 1 hour is definitely not enough if you require resources. 3 hours definitely (or 5 hours maybe) sounds the most fair and balanced.

 

3b. In all this, its easy to change the proportion of trade goods and port resources in regards to the other types of armor (repair kit adding 1 hour to scrimshaws). It can even apply to Superior armor and Scrimshaws by offering double or triple combat time if used on those degraded items. So, a Tetsu Body Repair Kit used on a tradeable Tetsu Body gives 3 hours of combat while the repair kit used on Degraded Superior Tetsu Body gives it 10 hours of combat.

 

4. I think gathering the additional resources make this much more difficult and time consuming. While this has only talked about Tetsu Plate, if a player is collecting other trade goods he'll also have to collect resources for them if they want to make repair kits. Anyone that wanted to upgrade their buildings know that its a cost/benefit trade off by taking voyages in the various regions.

 

Yes, I've thought this through. Yes, I tend to dismiss those that immediately say "This will ruin ports forever, armor is meant to turn to dust, ATTICA, ATTICA!!!". I do understand that impacts the economy of port armor, however I think it would be in a positive way. Hopefully this breakdown makes the idea more appealing to others.

[Red Leaf10]

No support. There already is variants of PoP armor which doesn't crumble to dust. These are undradable and have slightly better stats to the tradable verisons. Ultimately, the ports are meant to reward late-game characters, so giving someone who can't access the ports yet near-full access to the reward takes away some of the value of the content.

Also knowing what'll happen if this would get implemented, it'll glitch so that repaired standard armor becomes superior, which can be repaired with gp.

[NukeMarine]

Red Leaf did you read the entire thread cause those points have already been addressed.

 

One of the big things said about PoP was that it would be like a larger version MTK. Now, I don't know about you, but MTK is a decent money earner returning 250% on my investment (about 100k a day). That means "ultimately", the ports are meant to be financially rewarding to late-game characters. You only make the superior versions once for yourself (and its the best). However, that doesn't make you gp. The tradeable armor and scrimshaws are meant to be money earners for people playing PoP.

 

So tell me, what good is the second best armor in the game if the time required to create it (80 plates for Tetsu Body) does not justify the cost other players are willing to pay for it (currently 70 million, but still dropping)? This is economics here that has played out in RS quite often.

 

I think PoP is meant to be long term content for high level skillers to make money. Now in my thinking, skillers are concerned as much about making armor for themselves if they have a chance to sell it instead. If you think the current set-up is good for long term content then fine. I do not, hence this reasonable suggestion.

[Sy_Accursed]

Just because you have "addressed" them with your opinion doesn't make magically nullify that opinion and stop people having it.

[NukeMarine]

Well, some people have what is called a discussion where ideas are exchanged and opinions are hopefully shaped. Now, as you offered just one idea and have seemed to add nothing else suggests to me you're not interested in a discussion and merely dismiss an idea out of hand. I offered multiple points since your addition to this discussion, and you've offered none.

 

Care to address at least point one in my comment above yours? Would a repair kit that takes 1/10th the trade goods to make used to repair 1 hour of combat armor be excessive considering 10 of those kits equal the exact same time and cost as the armor would have been itself? Knowing your stance on that helps me realize discussing if later points with you would be fruitful.

[Sy_Accursed]

I did not further reply because I have nothing more to add, my opinion still stands as it was when I first posted. I don't care what way you swing it the entire point is that they crumble to dust to enforce the benefits of having the stats to make it yourself. Repair kits made from any sort of resource entirely undermines this especially since the non-tradable armours are coin repair only. I think it is perfectly acceptable the way it is and there is absolutely no need to meddle with it.

 

I only added a further reply because you came off as rather dismissive and almost attacking Red Leaf simply because he happened to agree with the views already expressed regardless of your extra address to them.

[NukeMarine]

Let me see if I get this straight about your opinion: a suggested system that allows players to make items costing 80 plates in total to use the tradeable armor for 10 hours is unacceptable to you. However, the current system that allows players to make an item costing 80 plates in total to use the tradeable armor for 10 hours is acceptable to you. Hope you can see why I'm dismissive of your current post.

 

Your previous reply had merit, had others agreeing with. I addressed your reply, added further justification to my opinion, and even offered a change as some considered a 10 hour repair to be far excessive, even with the added cost of resources. You, in response, offered nothing new and now have an opinion that now looks irrational in face of merely breaking the system into more manageable chunks of 8 plates for 1 hour use vice 80 plates for 10 hours use. A system that for all intents and purposes is the same.

 

Now, if you think creating a repair kit system to work with the non-tradeable Superior armor is not necessary as using GP for repairs is tried and true, then that's fine. It's one I disagree with and think this system if only applied to non-tradeable armor and scrimshaws could make ports a more long term prospect. For example, remove the GP option of repair from superior armor. Make repairs only possible with repair kits, which are tradeable. You then have a system where players with the eight skills at 90+ can get their three sets of superior armor with 2 to 3 months thanks to adventurer end voyages. They stop ports and then buy repair kits for their superior armor from players that keep playing ports. You lose a GP sink, but you gain a high level customer for players that find ports fun.

 

Lets face it, if the tradeable armor and scrimshaws sytem isn't changed, it will become dead content. I don't know about you, but gathering 180 plates for full tradeable tetsu will take a month or two of voyages (not counting those 1 off voyages). I don't see players investing that kind of time 5-10 minutes a day twice a day for two months if the demand is below 10 million a set (which it will approach). Likewise, I don't see players paying more than 10 million a set for 10 hours of combat use. Buying a set for use, yes, but not for constant use requiring multiple purchases. As such, the tradeable armor and scrimshaws become dead content, making ports only useful for the superior sets.

 

Or do you disagree and think tradeable armor will be a long term economically self sufficient method of income?

[Quyneax]

If repair kits are easier to make than buying new armour, the value of armour will drop to match the recharge cost achieved with repair kits.

If repair kits are harder to make, they will be useless because you could just get a new set.

 

I don't really see the point here. A much more useful suggestion would be to allow 'spiced overloads' to boost Constitution by 3-17 levels. Spices aren't very useful right now and they have no superior version, so overloads could take that role nicely. Although they would probably require a separate scroll.

[NukeMarine]

Quyneax, I'll be honest and say that I think that in two months the difficulty of making tradeable Port Armor (160 trade goods) will not match the price non-port players will be willing to pay to buy and use it. Right now, players can gather the material thanks to the adventurer story lines, but what about after that?

 

Now, you argue with good reason that if there are repair kits then armor will soon match the value of 3.3 repair kits (new armor gives 10 hours, repair kits give 3 hours). Let's assume that's the case, though there's a reason it's not. OK, for a tetsu body you'll need to buy a fresh one that cost a port player 80 plates to make, or if you have a decayed tetsu already it'll cost about 27 plates, 13k chimes, 10k cherrywood, 7k jade and 3.3k steel to make. Yes, the repair kits are easier to make but not that easy. Port players will want to charge for their time and effort. Remember, easier does not equal useless. It's not a zero sum event here.

 

On the point of value of armor to repair kits. I still think armor will have greater value than the 3.3 repair kits. Reason being you'll have to be willing to save up 80 plates to make the tetsu body. The number of players willing to invest for the longer term payout is much lower. Once they hit 8 plates and resources, they make the repair kit for a quick cash grab (easily proven by comparing helm prices to body prices which are not proportional to . That reduces the number of tetsu bodies in the game. Yes, they can be repaired, but you can't repair what you don't have. I argue that repair kits make port armor a more desirable form of combat armor, in turn creating a larger market for both armor and repair kits.

 

Here's what the value balance will be based on: Decayed Armor + 3.3 repair kits = Tetsu Body. Replacing this with what we already know of value means: Decayed Armor + 27 plates, 13.3k chimes, 10k cherrywood, 7k jade and 3.3k steel = 80 plates. The decayed armor will be worth the value of 53 plates minus whatever value port players put on the effort collecting the additional resources. That will fetch a good price for quite some time. So no, the new armor will never drop to zero value. There's a value to the decayed version of Barrows and it's repaired version. Same will go for port armor.

 

Anyway, I think this is a better option than Mod Edam's suggested change of increasing trade good rewards.

[Quyneax]

I'm not sure how much of your post is a reply to mine :P. I'm just saying that the armour user will try for the cheapest repairs/replacements. Kits can't rise above armour, because people would just buy new sets of armour. A set of armour is a (near) perfect substitute for a repair kit. Armour can rise above kits, because they can't be substituted - 3 repair kits don't make a tetsu plate. But since armour and kits share their basic resource - voyages - there is a link and armour can't rise too far, because people would be saving their resources for armour exclusively. I am definitely not suggesting that either armour or kits would eventually drop to zero, I am saying that kits are a needless complication of ports armour because the overall profit will neither increase not decrease.

 

Experience with Shards of Armadyl shows that the price difference between short-term profit (dust) and long-term profit (staff) is fairly small, and either can be the most profitable at a given time. This is pre-EoC of course as runes are now useless.

[vmser]

My point of view:

 

Could see a fair point in using repair kits, but only for the UNTRADEABLE armor.

Meaning you can fix it by using port resources rather then gp for repairs.

 

As for the untradable armor repairs upon accidental wearing:

Allow to repair them for 5% of its G.E. value if the decay < 1%.

It limits losses, yet is too expensive for people to use it to keep armor repaired rather then buying new.