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Pre-EoC -> EoC Pointers


Matey

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I'm trying to get back into RuneScape casually after taking quite a long break from the game, but I'm finding all the EoC changes a little hard to get my head around.

 

It could just be that my searching skills suck, but I'm having trouble finding any resources that tell me how everything's changed in a way that makes sense to me.

 

Soo... I have a few specific questions:

  • My current slayer task is steel dragons. Prior to EoC I'd stab them with a rapier, but as I understand it, they're weak to magic now. I'm accustomed to solely sticking with melee for slayer; how viable is this now? For example, roughly how much slower would fighting steel dragons with melee be compared to fighting with mage? For the record all of my combat skills are 90+

  • Following on from that, I've been told that steel dragons are weak to water spells specifically. How much of a difference does the type of attack for the class you use make? Again using steel dragons as an example, how much weaker would an air spell be compared to using a water spell?

  • And again following on from that, does the same carry across to melee and ranged? How much weaker is slash compared to using stab against a monster weak to stab? If the difference is quite noticeable, am I really going to have to get a CLS, offhand CLS, and chaotic maul (all I have is a rapier at the minute, which prior to EoC did the job fine)? That sucks if that's the case...

  • Out of curiosity, is there any mage armour that offers a decent prayer bonus? Like a robed equivalent of the proselyte armour?

  • I wouldn't mind doing some dungeoneering here and there, but I worry I'll just slow the team down and annoy everyone. I've been soloing the lower floors to try and get some experience in the combat system, but I was wondering if most people plow through with melee like before, or is the combat triangle combat enforced enough that people have to tediously change class constantly?

  • Can I get away with using momentum most places? I'm assuming for bosses it's handy to have a specific setup for killing each one, but apart from that are there any other instances where I'd want to actually actively use my abilities rather than letting momentum do the work?

I think that's all for now. I'm sorry the questions are a bit random, it's just what's going through my head at the minute! And I'm sorry if there's some obvious location where all of these questions are answered - please point me to it if that's the case.

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If you had a chaotic staff, you'd be able to kill steel dragons significantly faster than with a rapier. The idea is that when you're fighting a monster with a style that it's weak to, your weapon gets 100% of its accuracy and the monster only uses 31.25% of its defence (in this case, your magic vs its magic weakness, which indicates a melee nature). If you were to use a rapier, you'd be using the neutral style, which means the rapier only gets 50% of its accuracy and the monster uses 62.5% of its defence, which is a noticeable drop in accuracy.

 

For specific weakness (e.g. water, stab, thrown), you get an additional 15% accuracy bonus when using that style. In most cases, where you already are using an advantageous style, especially when using weapons over the monster's tier, this accuracy boost is not important.

 

Mage robes that offer prayer bonus are, off the top of my head, Akrisae's robes (requires completion of ROTM), Subjugation robes, Virtus robes and Sea Singer robes. None of them give a bonus as big as proselyte, though.

 

In Dungeoneering, if you're using any of the tier 11 stuff, accuracy is basically never a problem.

 

Momentum's great for slayer tasks, but not actual bossing.

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^I'd echo what Saradomin said, basically for slayer as much as possible you wanna use the weakness though as long as you are in the right corner of the combat triangle it should suffice and it is not really worth investing in thrown (almost no high end stuff weak to it due to lack of high end weps). With the exception of when you have a large disparity in your weapon tiers.

Taking steel dragons as an example.

T80 Ranged gear (chaotics or zaryte) would do just as well as T70 Melee gear which would in turn be as good as T60 mage gear roughly speaking.

Rule of thumb is for equal performance you ought to be 1 tier higher gear-wise for their neutral style (eg the style they use based upon their weakness) and two tiers higher for their strong style.

 

Prayer bonus isn't all that crucial these days, at least not in the sense where prossy has a use, because protect prayers are only 50% so you don't really get any pure 'prayer tasks' like you did before.

 

DG the triangle thing is slackened compared to the over-world though from the monster weaknesses ranged bears a slight advantage (but only really worth it with the sagi short [or hex if your holding on to that hoping they denerf it]) melee 2h is the way to go as there's more slash than crush or stab weakness and mage kind blows, not a huge amount weak to it and those that are all easily overpowered with the other styles.

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Thanks both, very helpful!

 

If you had a chaotic staff, you'd be able to kill steel dragons significantly faster than with a rapier. The idea is that when you're fighting a monster with a style that it's weak to, your weapon gets 100% of its accuracy and the monster only uses 31.25% of its defence (in this case, your magic vs its magic weakness, which indicates a melee nature). If you were to use a rapier, you'd be using the neutral style, which means the rapier only gets 50% of its accuracy and the monster uses 62.5% of its defence, which is a noticeable drop in accuracy.

 

For specific weakness (e.g. water, stab, thrown), you get an additional 15% accuracy bonus when using that style. In most cases, where you already are using an advantageous style, especially when using weapons over the monster's tier, this accuracy boost is not important.

 

Mage robes that offer prayer bonus are, off the top of my head, Akrisae's robes (requires completion of ROTM), Subjugation robes, Virtus robes and Sea Singer robes. None of them give a bonus as big as proselyte, though.

 

In Dungeoneering, if you're using any of the tier 11 stuff, accuracy is basically never a problem.

 

Momentum's great for slayer tasks, but not actual bossing.

 

That's great, makes sense. Is chaotic staff a good choice to use now then? Are there any decent alternatives to use in the interim while I save the tokens for one?

 

^I'd echo what Saradomin said, basically for slayer as much as possible you wanna use the weakness though as long as you are in the right corner of the combat triangle it should suffice and it is not really worth investing in thrown (almost no high end stuff weak to it due to lack of high end weps). With the exception of when you have a large disparity in your weapon tiers.

Taking steel dragons as an example.

T80 Ranged gear (chaotics or zaryte) would do just as well as T70 Melee gear which would in turn be as good as T60 mage gear roughly speaking.

Rule of thumb is for equal performance you ought to be 1 tier higher gear-wise for their neutral style (eg the style they use based upon their weakness) and two tiers higher for their strong style.

 

Prayer bonus isn't all that crucial these days, at least not in the sense where prossy has a use, because protect prayers are only 50% so you don't really get any pure 'prayer tasks' like you did before.

 

DG the triangle thing is slackened compared to the over-world though from the monster weaknesses ranged bears a slight advantage (but only really worth it with the sagi short [or hex if your holding on to that hoping they denerf it]) melee 2h is the way to go as there's more slash than crush or stab weakness and mage kind blows, not a huge amount weak to it and those that are all easily overpowered with the other styles.

 

Wow, protect prayers are 50% now? Good to know - I'm sure I would have been quite confused by this in the near future if you hadn't told me!

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I don't think the 100% vs. 31.25% holds.

 

The equipment interface shows your accuracy versus a dummy of a given style, but that should already take into account their defence bonus from wearing armour of the same tier as your weapon.

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You could probably do well at Steel dragons with Chaotic rapier still.

I was meleeing Steels with an Abyssal vine whip (Lv. 75 weapon, thus ~2.4k accuracy) and didn't miss that much. Chaotic rapier at 3043 accuracy would be more than enough.

 

Though the rule of thumb is that you should always be using the style that the monster is weak to.

You can usually get away with using the style they're neutral to, but the style they are weak to is best.

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Staff of Light is tier 75, and it's a fairly decent alternative.

 

I'll check it out. I've been using the Polypore Staff today; a clan member recommended using it for now but I expect I'd be better off with a SoL.

 

I noticed today while training slayer that a lot of people were just meleeing monsters that weren't weak to melee, which surprised me a little.

 

...I was also a little disappointed when I got a whip drop and price checked it - less than 100k! :P

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The Polypore is slightly cheaper and has exactly the same stats as the SoL. You can still cast Water Surge with the Polypore, so buying a SoL is rather pointless.

 

However, one caution: the EoC weakness system, while great in theory, rarely applies in practice. The tier of equipment is far more important than the opponent's weakness or your stats and this is even more evident given the December "hotfix" which increased the Defense ratings of many popular monsters, metal dragons included.

 

The reality is such that a Tier 60 Magic weapon is less effective than a Tier 70+ Melee or Ranged weapon, even though Steel Dragons are meant to have high defense against both these styles. Given the high costs of such gear it means that the game is once again effectively centralised around Melee, but that's a different argument for another time ;)

 

In short, don't listen to Jagex and use the best tier weapon you can afford.

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I'd like to very much argue against that point, there are plenty of Medium to high level tier magic and range weapons that are readily affordable by the average player.

 

By 'affordable', I mean anything that can be obtain from quests, have less than 500k weapon cost or have little to no maintainence cost.

 

Such as the polypore staff, Polypore costs, at most, 200k for a T75 staff. You have access to both Super-Anti fires and soul split, so that eliminates any need of Anti-Dragon shield and Wands (Wands IS very expensive, even for a T70).

 

Affordable ranged weapons include, but not limited to Crystal Bow (T70), Black Salamander (T70), Hand Cannon (T75), all of which are obtainable for less than 200k (in the case of the latter two, less than 20k, excluding ammunition)

 

Affordable Melee weapons include Vine Whip (requires 80 slayer, but it is very cheap for a T75 1h melee weapon), Enhanced Excalibur (which, remains to this day, the second best Melee off hand, only marginally beaten by Drygore off hands).

 

It isn't very important to use the correct 'style' everytime, but you should ALWAYS use, whereever possible, stay in the same corner of the Combat Triangle (unless you have weapons that are at least 10 tiers or higher in another corner).

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A few conflicting views there :P. I think I'll at least try and stay in the correct corner of the triangle for slayer. I was assigned greater demons and was going to buy an off-hand chaotic crossbow to fight them (I already have the main hand version), but I think I'll just use my crystal bow there instead and save the tokens for now. Or would using a chaotic crossbow by itself outdo a crystal bow?

 

Are there ever any instances where using a defender is worthwhile now? They seem a bit pointless in EoC, unless I'm missing something.

 

Now, I've been rushing some of the lower floors in dungeoneering and have a few questions:

  • I noticed I can bind 4 items now (I'm 93 dung). I swear I used to only be able to bind 2... Did Jagex up the bind limit?

  • I currently have a shadow silk hood and primal battleaxe bound. Is the SSH still worth using, and is the primal battleaxe a viable weapon to use still? From what I gather I should maybe look into replacing it with a 2H weapon? Is any primal 2H weapon good, or is there one that stands out in particular?

  • What should I fill my other 2 binds with? Primal platebody and legs?

  • I currently have a celestial surgebox bound in my ammunition slot. From what I gather, they've changed the behaviour of it somewhat and it's not as good as it used to be. Should I hold on to it, or perhaps replace it with something else?

  • So it looks like the bind situation has changed since I last played and you can create different setups and change them on the fly. Is it worth me creating separate bind setups for each class?

As ever, I appreciate the help :)

 

EDIT: Oh, are waterfiends still the go to monster for charms?

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Ranging waterfiends, and rock barraging dagannoth at waterbirth are the best charms per hour, both over 300 per hour with overloads, t8 weapons, and 95 prayer (mage prayers broken again atm).

 

Get a primal maul for dg. Bind the maul, prom/primal plate, ssh, and t9 or higher bow with the equivalent arrows for your ammo bind.

 

Edit

 

Yes defenders are useless now.


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Where does Drygore fit into all this? How much better is it using Drygore vs the correct style

 

Drygore out DPSes just about anything, regardless of the weakness. Only on certain bosses/monsters that have INCREDIBLY high (eg Corp Beast) defence to certain things, are drygores not as useful.

And I may even be wrong. Haha.

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Ignore the combat triangle on almost everything.

 

You don't use drygores on most tasks - you barrage them. It is far faster. E.g. abyssal demons in the slayer tower with a contract and Morytania Legs 4 are over 300k slay xp/hr. Anything that is highly resistant to magic (read: weak to ranged) you should use drygores on with the sole exception of Waterfiends.

 

Use momentum when barraging, but use abilities with drygores.

 

Also make sure to do Kalphite tasks at KK.

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Ignore the combat triangle on almost everything.

 

You don't use drygores on most tasks - you barrage them. It is far faster. E.g. abyssal demons in the slayer tower with a contract and Morytania Legs 4 are over 300k slay xp/hr. Anything that is highly resistant to magic (read: weak to ranged) you should use drygores on with the sole exception of Waterfiends.

 

Use momentum when barraging, but use abilities with drygores.

 

Also make sure to do Kalphite tasks at KK.

 

Unless of course you value exp in range or melee then this is true. Also aviansie tasks can be done at kree, greater demon tasks at Kril and black dragon tasks at the QBD if you need or want cash.

 

Drygore really is the best just about everywhere. Even on glakkers they're almost as effective as fire surge/bloodfire barrage.


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The question then becomes whether it's actually worth it to use Drygore off hand

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The question then becomes whether it's actually worth it to use Drygore off hand

 

Why would it not be? What better alternative is there?

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To hell with humanity;

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Because changing from Drygore off hand to EE shaves something like 0.3% off your dps (assuming abilities use) and gives 33% discount on your Drygore upkeep.

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6,924th to 30 hunting, 13,394th to 30 summoning, 52,993rd to 30 Divination

Kiln Record (Post-EoC): W 25 - L 0, 14 Uncut Onyx, 8 Jad hits received (Best record: Two in the same kiln)
Obby set renewed post update #2: 0

QBD drops: 21 crossbow parts, 3 Visages, 1 Kites, 2 Kits

Max Port Score [2205] Achieved: 27th April 2013 (World 2nd)

 

Farmyard Rampage ranking: 12th, 50,000 Kills.

 

Dragon Pickaxe Drops: 1 (Times after I first entered Battlefield: 2h)

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Ignore the combat triangle on almost everything.

 

You don't use drygores on most tasks - you barrage them. It is far faster. E.g. abyssal demons in the slayer tower with a contract and Morytania Legs 4 are over 300k slay xp/hr. Anything that is highly resistant to magic (read: weak to ranged) you should use drygores on with the sole exception of Waterfiends.

 

Use momentum when barraging, but use abilities with drygores.

 

Also make sure to do Kalphite tasks at KK.

 

Unless of course you value exp in range or melee then this is true. Also aviansie tasks can be done at kree, greater demon tasks at Kril and black dragon tasks at the QBD if you need or want cash.

 

Drygore really is the best just about everywhere. Even on glakkers they're almost as effective as fire surge/bloodfire barrage.

 

You get magic and defence by barraging. Attack and strength come from the drygore tasks and training pure combat after 99 slayer. The increase in slayer xp/hr from barraging over using drygores is so significant that even if you still need att/str xp, you should still barrage most tasks. Referring to slayer only of course. In PVM you should use drygores in almost every situation.

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Because changing from Drygore off hand to EE shaves something like 0.3% off your dps (assuming abilities use) and gives 33% discount on your Drygore upkeep.

 

Can you elaborate with Calculations please? Cause I think you miss the Accuracy bit...

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Accuracy when using abilities is only based off your mainhand weapon, meaning you don't lose any accuracy by using an eee.

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Accuracy when using abilities is only based off your mainhand weapon, meaning you don't lose any accuracy by using an eee.

 

This. Untrusting people like myself are expecting a nerf either to the way abilities count accuracy or to the EE itself eventually and thus go with drygore anyways.

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Armadyl Drops : 4 Hilts; 3 Chestplates; 2 Chainskirts; 1 Helmet; 1 Buckler; 2 Shard 1; 2 Shard 2; 1 Shard 3

Nex : 1 Zaryte Bow

Kalphite King : 1 Drygore Rapier ; 1 Drygore Longsword : 1 Drygore Offhand Rapier : 1 Drygore Offhand Longsword

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