Polls General Discussion

[Sy_Accursed]

There is not time slot for it's dev if it doesn't win.

 

Plus all 3 of those names aren't even in the scrum team who will be deving this poll winner.

[HunterDexter]

Well, Mod Raven is working on it in his offtime, as it was his pet idea. I think he hopes to reduce development time that way, making an extralarge piece of content into a large one, which would have fit this poll.

Sadly, now we'll have to wait for 2016 at least for another shot at ROP, as there are no large (quest) runelabs polls this year anymore.

[Wkw]

Part of this was Raven's fault from the beginning, wasn't it? He overhyped it before it was actually greenlit

[HunterDexter]

Well, no, the quest was set for a release in the later part of 2014, somewhat later we heard ROP and Dishonour amongst Thieves were pushed a bit back. And then suddenly it was 2015 and neither ROP nor DaT was released yet. We suddenly learned ROP was shelved then. (Timeline might be a bit off, but this is how it happened, it was confirmed to come out.)

[Sy_Accursed]

Tbh it was kinda Raven and Osbournes fault for over hype.

 

The concept existed and had been provisionally been given a dev slot later in the year for late 14 release but it hadn't actually been put in to dev, so when time scales on other stuff shifted its dev slot vanished and it never began dev at all.

 

They shouldn't of really given us any details until it was actually in dev and thus could be delayed but was definitely happening.

[Saradomin_Mage]

Everyone voting for ROP should switch their vote to the agility training shit, then when the Seren Quest gets beaten out of this poll, the quest slot for Runelabs will be unused and ROP can have another go in a later month.

[Sy_Accursed]

Everyone voting for ROP should switch their vote to the agility training shit, then when the Seren Quest gets beaten out of this poll, the quest slot for Runelabs will be unused and ROP can have another go in a later month.

 

But it's not a quest slot it is a sized based slot.

 

If ROP does not win that slot is gone no matter what else wins.

Agility and that other one I can't remember will still use the same slot, same dev time etc as ROP or Seren quest would.

 

The *only* way ROP will get another shot at being this year is if another round of Runelabs asks for the same size or bigger or a quest and it wins the poll; and heck at this stage in the year for an update of this size we are probably already looking towards october or later release.

[HunterDexter]

There's no more slots this year where a large quest could get chosen, only a med sized quest will be polled later this year.

So it seems ROP will get its next chance in 2016. :/

[Saradomin_Mage]

oh rip rop then :<

[strilmus]

"hey, people thought this concept was second best, let's not use it ever again"

 

our logic is that development should work like general elections

[BloodAngel]

At least it seems we'll still be getting the Seren quest after Agility nearly won when people started changing their votes from RoP. One quest is better than no quest.

[strilmus]

runescape: why have the best when you can settle for less

[SwreeTak]

So yes, RoP lost the poll and came last. A result I had of course not wished for. Certainly I knew that it would be hard, very hard to win. All three other ideas which made it into the poll were really good. The Seren Quest promised plenty of new spells and prayers, useful for many situations. The Farming Guild was attractive to all and everyone who wished for an easier and cooler way to grow their herbs, bushes, flowers and plants of all kinds. And the Agility Improvements idea was something which all those who have ever run a couple of hundreds of laps at any/all agility courses would certainly love to vote for.

 

What did RoP have? Lore, and exploration. No fancy rewards, no close-to-skill-rework fancy stuff or promises of xp improvements. But I had hoped for at least third place, because it is a well-known "to be" quest by now. And the community has shown that it wants it plenty of times before. During the last week before the poll went live I got plenty of PMs from strangers that wanted to discuss the quest, give suggestions or just to wish me, my fellow idea-writers and the idea the best of luck. I really believed we had a good chance to at least beat the farming guild idea. All but the max guild are pretty much dead content nowadays anyway.

 

I was wrong. Now, though, I will admit that it hurt. But I feel hopeful about the future. This was a "bonus chance" and the goal from the beginning has been to get Jagex to develop the idea not because it won a RuneLabs competition but because the players and community has shown that it truly wants it. To get the idea released in a "normal", non-RuneLabs, scheduled spot is the "true" goal. Something which is our (Armadyn, The Aviansie and myself) aim now as much as before. Certainly we will keep pushing for RoP in RuneLabs, and if there is another criteria where RoP might fit in, we will certainly make sure it is up there among the top supported ideas again. If for nothing else to make sure that the idea is seen and not forgotten. Not that I think that it will be forgotten after all the discussion which has occured.

 

I am at least a bit happy that the other quest won. If only because of its rewards. I really wish Player Power could show more of the community I believe I know. Do the players really only care for the most rewards as for content? Can't they see that this game needs a balance? I am not saying that RoP deserves to be made more than all other ideas, but this whole reward-idea-hype is getting to me quite the bit by now. And really. RoP has been shelved for years now, Jagex. Don't only point to RuneLabs...

 

Anyway, with all that said, a big thank you to this wonderful community. I know a lot of you supported RoP. It is really welcome. I promise that I will keep pushing and supporting and advertising the idea. Let's get it made. It is about damn time.

[Arceus]

I wouldn't feel too upset if I were you.

 

First of all Jagex almost set it up to fail, describing it as the "Armadyl Homeworld" quest in comparison to "Oh look here's more prayers and spells!" Players, and particularly ones enticed for the instant gratification system that is Power to the Players polls, are more likely to jump for the latter. It's especially so if they haven't actually read a description of the full idea. You just can't boil down a whole lore setup into two sentences and accurately convey that interpretation to players, especially to ones who would rather space bar through their quests most of the time anyway. They could have at least promise something like "a rare new resource/source of resources" over "additional explorable areas."

 

The other sort of farce is viewing/changing votes in said polls. Before you can vote (at least on F2P, not sure about P2P) they show you the current vote totals and percentages right in front of you. Is the point of voting to exert pressure on the options that are already winning, or to gather an opinion of what the players want? Regardless, after you vote you can change your vote, and this time we saw some consequences.

 

People abandoned RoP as "unwinnable" and dumped their votes into Agility skill reworks which made a break for it, falling about 300 votes short of top place at its peak. Maybe votes should be made blind and irreversible once entered, or allowed to be changed but keep everything in a black box until voting is concluded, and then present the results. The latter option would allow people the benefit of discussion with the community and to select/change their decision over a period of time. Of course, the cost is the instant gratification of seeing a current poll total with your vote entered, but maybe that's not a bad thing. After all in most "elections" you don't see a running tally of who is winning while people are lined up to vote, for a mix of practicality and other issues.

 

It's not a reflection on RoP as bad content, and in fact I think it's a quite brilliant idea, but more of a highlight as to some of the issues with the Power to the Players system and why perhaps players may not know best. So I really wouldn't feel too bad about it. And while I won't give you false hope as I know they don't have another RuneLabs idea of sufficient size planned for this year, I definitely hope Jagex does give this idea a chance sooner rather than later.

[Yoko Kurama]

I can definitely understand why RoP lost (I voted for Seren, of course). I remember listening to the podcast for the RoP pitch, and it didn't sound exciting at all. Visit Armadyl's homeland (which has Citadels in it or whatever, islands floating in the sky), they have some water shortage and you have to help them with that. Sounds fairly uninteresting to me. Jagex is notoriously bad with introducing self-contained areas for quests which have no tangible benefits or reasons to revisit them after the quest is done, and so you go, do the quest and never revisit the area or think about it again. Don't see the appeal in that. Prayers and the spells on the other hand seem very appealing.

 

People also underestimate the fact that more people might actually prefer Seren lore to Armadyl lore. I wouldn't be surprised if Seren is a far more popular god than Armadyl (much like Zaros is more popular than Sara who in turn is more popular than Zammy). Elf-related stuff has always been popular for this reason. So it wasn't simply a case of people rejecting lore altogether.

[HunterDexter]

As I really want an Armadylean piece of content this year, I've made a plan for the medium quest slot coming later this year: http://[Use Quick Find Code]/c=GJYCR55ZySY/[Please Use QuickFind Code]?185,186,137,65606481 .

I hope this will really gets some votes. :p

[Alg]

People also underestimate the fact that more people might actually prefer Seren lore to Armadyl lore. I wouldn't be surprised if Seren is a far more popular god than Armadyl (much like Zaros is more popular than Sara who in turn is more popular than Zammy). Elf-related stuff has always been popular for this reason. So it wasn't simply a case of people rejecting lore altogether.

I think it's less about popularity (there is still plenty of that though, or we'd have let it go) and more that it was proposed and then shoved into the same perpetual delay folder as the construction rework and such. Same kind of thing as the Inventor poll, except we probably would have had the Seren expansion even if it didn't win and they can't really gut a lore quest for a TH promotion.

 

It also seems like it's polling the rewards when it shouldn't be, since the elf quest is more or less just a vehicle for those rewards. No shit, more people are going to want reusable endgame content than the niche lore quest, because most players really don't care about the lore.

[strilmus]

I mean, Seren's kind of neat, but she's also kind of wishy washy compared to the gods we have now....the only reason she isn't being killed now is that she's technically already dead :P

 

but the same mistakes are being made here, people voting for things before they even know what they are. this is how we ended up with half of elf city being functionally useless, people....

[HunterDexter]

I also don't understand why the community wants every skill in the city. We still have Menaphos to fill with awesome skilling stuff. :o

[Yoko Kurama]

 

People also underestimate the fact that more people might actually prefer Seren lore to Armadyl lore. I wouldn't be surprised if Seren is a far more popular god than Armadyl (much like Zaros is more popular than Sara who in turn is more popular than Zammy). Elf-related stuff has always been popular for this reason. So it wasn't simply a case of people rejecting lore altogether.

I think it's less about popularity (there is still plenty of that though, or we'd have let it go) and more that it was proposed and then shoved into the same perpetual delay folder as the construction rework and such. Same kind of thing as the Inventor poll, except we probably would have had the Seren expansion even if it didn't win and they can't really gut a lore quest for a TH promotion.

 

It also seems like it's polling the rewards when it shouldn't be, since the elf quest is more or less just a vehicle for those rewards. No shit, more people are going to want reusable endgame content than the niche lore quest, because most players really don't care about the lore.

 

 

I still don't get this dichotomy between lore and rewards. Yes, the Seren quest has rewards, but it's also going to have a decent bit of lore. Even if the rewards weren't mentioned, I'd be willing to wager there's a decent chance the Seren quest would have still won, as elf related stuff is generally very popular. It's not like by voting against RoP people have voted against lore.

[Alg]

I still don't get this dichotomy between lore and rewards. Yes, the Seren quest has rewards, but it's also going to have a decent bit of lore. Even if the rewards weren't mentioned, I'd be willing to wager there's a decent chance the Seren quest would have still won, as elf related stuff is generally very popular. It's not like by voting against RoP people have voted against lore.

It's more "pure lore quest versus lore quest with amazing rewards that everyone will need", I think. Armadyl was one of the more popular gods last time I checked, but it really can't compete with popularity and rewards.

 

Really more concerned that it might mean we'll never get to see RoP.

[SwreeTak]

I can definitely understand why RoP lost (I voted for Seren, of course). I remember listening to the podcast for the RoP pitch, and it didn't sound exciting at all. Visit Armadyl's homeland (which has Citadels in it or whatever, islands floating in the sky), they have some water shortage and you have to help them with that. Sounds fairly uninteresting to me. Jagex is notoriously bad with introducing self-contained areas for quests which have no tangible benefits or reasons to revisit them after the quest is done, and so you go, do the quest and never revisit the area or think about it again. Don't see the appeal in that. Prayers and the spells on the other hand seem very appealing.

 

People also underestimate the fact that more people might actually prefer Seren lore to Armadyl lore. I wouldn't be surprised if Seren is a far more popular god than Armadyl (much like Zaros is more popular than Sara who in turn is more popular than Zammy). Elf-related stuff has always been popular for this reason. So it wasn't simply a case of people rejecting lore altogether.

 

I certainly believe myself to understand why RoP lost as well. That the Seren quest was far more attractive should be obvious to all and everyone. However, I don't share your viewpoint on that the quest "didn't sound exciting at all". Certainly I can agree on that a quest along the format of One Small Favour where you go fetch a bucket of water for aviansie X and then complete the quest would be quite boring. RoP does however, as I am sure you are aware of, contain way more than that. It has been stated by Mod Raven that the actual Rite of Passage "story-part" would just be roughly 1/3 of the quest. And though I do agree on that Jagex has been bad at creating reasons for people to head back to self-contained quest-areas, Abbinah would in my opinion be different. It was/is going to be one big world, with lots of islands to explore, and a village. Of course I can't say exactly what would be contained, but me and my fellow submitters of the idea had quite a few plans, which I am sure of Jagex would have at least accepted a few if RoP was to have won. Ideas which we are now working on detailing as for a new version of the RoP suggestion.

 

Obviously the Seren Quest is going to contain lore as well, but I do strongly believe that if the Seren Quest had been just about learning more about Seren that quest would have performed even worse than RoP. I even doubt it would have reached 10%. Of course, this is my own opinion, and I am basing it on my view/experience of the community.

 

As for your point of Seren potentially having a larger following than Armadyl, I disagree again. When travelling throughout Gielinor I meet very few Serenists compared to Armadyleans. I believe this was also clear in the official statistics from Jagex on how many "followers" each emissary from the different factions had (I couldn't find the link, but wasn't it stated in a stream? I don't remember).

 

 

 

People also underestimate the fact that more people might actually prefer Seren lore to Armadyl lore. I wouldn't be surprised if Seren is a far more popular god than Armadyl (much like Zaros is more popular than Sara who in turn is more popular than Zammy). Elf-related stuff has always been popular for this reason. So it wasn't simply a case of people rejecting lore altogether.

I think it's less about popularity (there is still plenty of that though, or we'd have let it go) and more that it was proposed and then shoved into the same perpetual delay folder as the construction rework and such. Same kind of thing as the Inventor poll, except we probably would have had the Seren expansion even if it didn't win and they can't really gut a lore quest for a TH promotion.

 

It also seems like it's polling the rewards when it shouldn't be, since the elf quest is more or less just a vehicle for those rewards. No shit, more people are going to want reusable endgame content than the niche lore quest, because most players really don't care about the lore.

 

 

I still don't get this dichotomy between lore and rewards. Yes, the Seren quest has rewards, but it's also going to have a decent bit of lore. Even if the rewards weren't mentioned, I'd be willing to wager there's a decent chance the Seren quest would have still won, as elf related stuff is generally very popular. It's not like by voting against RoP people have voted against lore.

 

 

Elf related stuff is popular because of Prifddinas. Seren has gained in popularity because people associate her quite a lot with XP nowadays. It has very, very little to do with lore.

 

I should finally mention here that I and my fellow aviansies are looking for suggestions as for post-quest content at Abbinah. We believe this may help the next version of RoP-suggestion we are putting together for RuneLabs. All feedback is welcome, either on this thread or on the RSOF. Link: [qfc]16-17-334-65378547[/qfc]

[Yoko Kurama]

 

I can definitely understand why RoP lost (I voted for Seren, of course). I remember listening to the podcast for the RoP pitch, and it didn't sound exciting at all. Visit Armadyl's homeland (which has Citadels in it or whatever, islands floating in the sky), they have some water shortage and you have to help them with that. Sounds fairly uninteresting to me. Jagex is notoriously bad with introducing self-contained areas for quests which have no tangible benefits or reasons to revisit them after the quest is done, and so you go, do the quest and never revisit the area or think about it again. Don't see the appeal in that. Prayers and the spells on the other hand seem very appealing.

 

People also underestimate the fact that more people might actually prefer Seren lore to Armadyl lore. I wouldn't be surprised if Seren is a far more popular god than Armadyl (much like Zaros is more popular than Sara who in turn is more popular than Zammy). Elf-related stuff has always been popular for this reason. So it wasn't simply a case of people rejecting lore altogether.

 

I certainly believe myself to understand why RoP lost as well. That the Seren quest was far more attractive should be obvious to all and everyone. However, I don't share your viewpoint on that the quest "didn't sound exciting at all". Certainly I can agree on that a quest along the format of One Small Favour where you go fetch a bucket of water for aviansie X and then complete the quest would be quite boring. RoP does however, as I am sure you are aware of, contain way more than that. It has been stated by Mod Raven that the actual Rite of Passage "story-part" would just be roughly 1/3 of the quest. And though I do agree on that Jagex has been bad at creating reasons for people to head back to self-contained quest-areas, Abbinah would in my opinion be different. It was/is going to be one big world, with lots of islands to explore, and a village. Of course I can't say exactly what would be contained, but me and my fellow submitters of the idea had quite a few plans, which I am sure of Jagex would have at least accepted a few if RoP was to have won. Ideas which we are now working on detailing as for a new version of the RoP suggestion.

 

Obviously the Seren Quest is going to contain lore as well, but I do strongly believe that if the Seren Quest had been just about learning more about Seren that quest would have performed even worse than RoP. I even doubt it would have reached 10%. Of course, this is my own opinion, and I am basing it on my view/experience of the community.

 

As for your point of Seren potentially having a larger following than Armadyl, I disagree again. When travelling throughout Gielinor I meet very few Serenists compared to Armadyleans. I believe this was also clear in the official statistics from Jagex on how many "followers" each emissary from the different factions had (I couldn't find the link, but wasn't it stated in a stream? I don't remember).

 

 

 

People also underestimate the fact that more people might actually prefer Seren lore to Armadyl lore. I wouldn't be surprised if Seren is a far more popular god than Armadyl (much like Zaros is more popular than Sara who in turn is more popular than Zammy). Elf-related stuff has always been popular for this reason. So it wasn't simply a case of people rejecting lore altogether.

I think it's less about popularity (there is still plenty of that though, or we'd have let it go) and more that it was proposed and then shoved into the same perpetual delay folder as the construction rework and such. Same kind of thing as the Inventor poll, except we probably would have had the Seren expansion even if it didn't win and they can't really gut a lore quest for a TH promotion.

 

It also seems like it's polling the rewards when it shouldn't be, since the elf quest is more or less just a vehicle for those rewards. No shit, more people are going to want reusable endgame content than the niche lore quest, because most players really don't care about the lore.

 

 

I still don't get this dichotomy between lore and rewards. Yes, the Seren quest has rewards, but it's also going to have a decent bit of lore. Even if the rewards weren't mentioned, I'd be willing to wager there's a decent chance the Seren quest would have still won, as elf related stuff is generally very popular. It's not like by voting against RoP people have voted against lore.

 

 

Elf related stuff is popular because of Prifddinas. Seren has gained in popularity because people associate her quite a lot with XP nowadays. It has very, very little to do with lore.

 

I should finally mention here that I and my fellow aviansies are looking for suggestions as for post-quest content at Abbinah. We believe this may help the next version of RoP-suggestion we are putting together for RuneLabs. All feedback is welcome, either on this thread or on the RSOF. Link: [qfc]16-17-334-65378547[/qfc]

 

 

Elf related stuff has been popular long before Prifddinas came out, and that's one of the reasons why we got the city in the first place: because people kept clamoring for it.

 

As for the Avianse homeworld being lots of Islands to explore; I seriously doubt they'd be able to create a compelling area that people would want to revisit after the quest was completed. Priff is the only exception over the years, and that took them ages to complete, and I don't think they have anything like that on the horizon anytime soon.

[HunterDexter]

Well, I really hope Menaphos will become a second high level hub with the remaining skills there. ^^

It's one of the oldest quest lines now too, with a lot op potential.

[Urza285]

I dont see menaphos being a high level hub. If anything menaphos will be a niche city and thats the highest hope you could see achieved. They will invent some use for it for mid level players to bridge some usability gaps between other major cities and priff. Whether it be a reimagined one or one of convenience who knows.