Different Level 90 Options?

[Blutters]

Basically, I'm wondering how the different level 90 weapons compare with one another, now that Noxious weaponry is getting to be "affordable".

 

Specifically, I'm wondering how the Noxious Staff (with Virtus) compares to dual Ascensions (with Pernix). (They're similar in price at the moment.)

 

Other than that, possibly, how Seismics/Noxious Bow compare with one another and with the two above options.

 

I just don't care about melee lol.

[Major Dash]

Nox Staff > Seismic Wand

Ascension Crossbows > Nox Bow

 

 

 

However, I'm not really sure how the t90 staff compares to ascension crossbows.

[Yoko Kurama]

Nox Staff > Seismic Wand

Ascension Crossbows > Nox Bow

 

 

 

However, I'm not really sure how the t90 staff compares to ascension crossbows.

 

In general:

 

Nox Staff is slightly better than Seismic Wand + Orb, because Sonic Wave is slightly better than Conc Blast. Added advantage, Nox Staff is one item, so you can use a scrimshaw or some other degrading item and protect it on death instead of having to worry about Singularity.

 

Dual Ascensions are slightly better than Nox Bow because Unload is a better Special to use than Incendiary shot in most cases, aside from that all abilities for DW and 2H are the same - though I think Needle Shot (DW abiity) is slighly better than its 2H counterpart.

 

Dual Drygores are significantly better than Nox Scythe, because the Destroy threshold (DW threshold) is amazing and much better than 2H thresholds which are all oriented towards AOE damage - which is not terribly useful.

[tgf]

magic is better than range right now because of breath.

[Quasar]

noxious bow is the best weapon in the game for trolling on vorago reflect because of incendiary shot

[Yoko Kurama]

noxious bow is the best weapon in the game for trolling on vorago reflect because of incendiary shot

 

By trolling do you mean actually killing someone, or sniping in a Resonance?

[Quasar]

nah i mean reflect pking.  on a serious note i used a nox set at dag kings yesterday with revolution and it was very relaxed and easy.  would recommend.

[Yoko Kurama]

nah i mean reflect pking.  on a serious note i used a nox set at dag kings yesterday with revolution and it was very relaxed and easy.  would recommend.

 

Oh, that, lol. Well I would have thought Unload or Deadshot would be better at trolling people. I think in my early days at Vorago, I used Deadshot, signed base tank, and the bleeds were still going on and nearly killed him a second time. Lol.

[Blutters]

 

Nox Staff > Seismic Wand

Ascension Crossbows > Nox Bow

 

 

 

However, I'm not really sure how the t90 staff compares to ascension crossbows.

 

In general:

 

Nox Staff is slightly better than Seismic Wand + Orb, because Sonic Wave is slightly better than Conc Blast. Added advantage, Nox Staff is one item, so you can use a scrimshaw or some other degrading item and protect it on death instead of having to worry about Singularity.

 

Dual Ascensions are slightly better than Nox Staff because Unload is a better Special to use than Incendiary shot in most cases, aside from that all abilities for DW and 2H are the same - though I think Needle Shot (DW abiity) is slighly better than its 2H counterpart.

 

Dual Drygores are significantly better than Nox Scythe, because the Destroy threshold (DW threshold) is amazing and much better than 2H thresholds which are all oriented towards AOE damage - which is not terribly useful.

 

I'm slightly confused, I think you meant to say "Dual Ascensions are slightly better than Nox Bow"? Haha I don't use ultimates except for Swiftness/Sunshine/Berserk anyway :P

Also, about the DW vs 2h Magic, I'm just wondering if DW benefits significantly from access to 2 simultaneous Ancients effects, like Smoke + Shadow?

[Yoko Kurama]

Yes I did. Silly little typo.

 

As for the advantages of having two different ancient spells (one on mainhand, one on off-hand), that can certainly be advantageous, I suppose, but only in rare situations. You wouldn't need it for general combat or high level PVM combat.

[Blutters]

magic is better than range right now because of breath.

Not that I don't believe  you, Tim, but can anyone else corroborate this?

 

There used to be a page on the RSWiki that showed a bunch of variants of what were supposedly the most efficient damage-wise ability bars, but I can't find it anymore.

[tgf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWEFgnZqKEc

 

just this one thing makes magic better by far

[Blutters]

I just assumed there were other factors to consider :|

Like Frag Shot movement, or Shadow Tendrils

 

This is a question I think tightly related to the rest of the thread, but what are the best setups for damage-dealing abilities for Revolution for each style DW/2H?

[krimi]

When did sonic wave become better than concentrated blast? When legacy came back?

[Perfect Wave]

Imo range and mage both have specific times when one is better.

Range has many more thresholds and a better non death swiftness/sunshine ultimate, but shitty basics aside from frag shot and dazing shot/needle strike, while mage has fewer thresholds, but dragon breath which is an awesome basic. Mage also has meta which has limited usefulness but can come in handy.

The main boss I do nowadays is rise of the six and I'd say that mage is better there unless you have to deal with Ahrims, who takes half damage from mage when he's in the air. 

[Autumntempest]

About staff vs wand, in terms of dps on 100% accuracy targets,

wand is likely to be better than staff if you use it manually.

the only difference between the 2 is concentrated blast vs sonic wave.

Concentrated blast does 75, 82 and then 89 percent in 3.6 seconds, whilst sonic wave does 157 in 1.8 seconds.

whilst it would seem that staff is better, it should not be forgotten that by using the ability bar manually, one can actually stack another ability on top of the 89 percent. Impact for example would stack to deal 189 percent damage and added together it would be 346 percent ability damage compared to the 257 percent ability damage when using Impact after sonic blast. This would possibly mean that the seismic wand+orb is superior compared to the nox staff in terms of dps on targets that the player does not have 100% accuracy on.

This would then leave staff possibly superior vs wand in terms of dps in vorago, rots, nex and pvp.

But it depends on if the trade-off is worth it. concentrated blast allows one to deal about 89 percent of one's active spell's damage more every other hit when using basics whilst sonic wave allows one to raise one's accuracy of one's next hit by 10% should sonic wave deal damage.

 

In terms of flexibility, wand has the upper hand, allowing the user to wield a shield at times should they require one.

 

When dying however, using a staff does allow the user to keep one more item when compared to using a wand+offhand combo.

Using a staff is also much easier for switches when one is tribridding

[Youmu]

As a side note, the only ultimate abilities you should use are berserk, metamorphosis, sunshine, death's swiftness, and natural instinct, and none of those matter when it comes to 2h vs dual-wield.

[Blutters]

Thanks for the responses, but please bear in mind that this thread is quite old now :P

Funny looking at the prices that Nox Staff and Bow are the same at the moment, and Ascensions are actually about 5m cheaper.

[Wkw]

Needle strike is better than dazing shot. Swiftness + needle strike followed by tendrils almost guarantees you hitting 10k+

[Autumntempest]

Here's some more extensive data on my research.
The dps of wand vs staff in ability cycles where sonic wave/concentrated blast is the first ability used in the cycle is calculated as follows:
((75+82+89+A+B)/(157+A+B))*5.4/6
where A and B are abilities that can be used often enough to be representative enough of the average ability damage of basic abilities that can be cycled without all abilities being on cooldown, excluding sonic wave/concentrated blast. Since wrack is very often used as the core to build adrenaline in most ability bars, I let A be 94 and I let B be 130(because 130 seemed fairly reasonable to me, dragonbreath being inconsistent (deals "up to" 188% of current spell's damage) and to balance out the inconsistency in wrack ( deals "up to" 94% of active spell's damage))
Then through testing, I observed that when a second ability is stacked on top of the third hit in concentrated blast, the total times taken by concentrated blast and the second ability seemed to take about 0.6 seconds longer than 2 abilities would for a staff. Therefore conc blast and 2 abilities would take 6 seconds and sonic wave and 2 abilities would take 5.4 seconds.

When A is 94 and b is 130,
((75+82+89+A+B)/(157+A+B))*5.4/6=1.11
dps with wand is about 11% higher on targets where one has 100% accuracy on.


On targets where one does not have 100% accuracy on:
dps here is taken as damage*accuracy

Assuming Vorago is classified as neutral and has 90 defence, by using rswiki's hit chance formula ((0.0008a^3+4a+40)+2.5(0.0008b^3+4b+40))/(0.0008c^3+4c+40)*5.5(neutral weakness)
Assuming the player wears superior elite void (+3% accuracy), uses supreme overloads and prays torment(+10% accuracy),
the player's magic level is at 99+19+99*0.1, which is 127.9, or 127 rounded down
substituting it into the formula as a, 90 as b(weapon level) and 90 as c(vorago's defence level)
the player's accuracy is 85.9%,
with sup elite void:
88.5%
with this, nox staff's sonic wave will land 88.5% of the time, and give a 10% accuracy buff to the next hit, however this complicates matters
since sonic wave can be used with 2 abilities between, and that the buff applied only applies to the next hit and not the next ability, for the sake of easier calculations it is assumed that it is applied to the next ability.
The average accuracy increase is therefore 0.885*0.1*0.885/3, or 2.6%

where dps is damage* accuracy,
seismic staff will hit 88.5% of the time, with a damage of 1.11 of that of the nox staff=0.98

Nox staff will hit (88.5%+2.6%) of the time, with a damage of 1 of that of the nox staff=0.911

Overall, the seismic set is at least a theoretical 7% more dps than nox staff, but nox staff gains 1/9 more adrenaline than the seis wand
Of course, this also depends on situations. it would be less than 7% if the player was in a scenario where they had to run around

If vorago's type was classified as 'strong against',
The multiplier would be 7.5 instead of 5.5 and the formula becomes 64.9% accuracy.
In this scenario, nox staff's accuracy buff becomes 0.649*0.1*0.649/3 or an average accuracy buff of 1.4%.
Seis dps: 0.649*1.11=0.72
Nox staff dps:0.663

Seis has a higher dps of 8%

Is accuracy increased damage even after 100%, to match a dw, the staff has to provide an average increase of 11% accuracy.
X^2*0.1/3=0.11x
Then base accuracy on the creature has to be over 300%

[Major Dash]

That is sooo inaccurate.....

[Autumntempest]

That is sooo inaccurate.....

Please elaborate about what you think is inaccurate?

[Major Dash]

Concentrated Blast and Sonic Wave do the *EXACT* same damage if CB is canceled before/during the second orb (which it should be). Sonic Wave just has the added benefit of increasing accuracy by 10% on the following ability (notably Dragonbreath and Wild Magic). You also have to take into consideration that if you are at a boss where you need to be moving (ROTS) CB is going to lock you in place and lower your dps since it is a channel ability. I don't really know where you pulled those bullshit calculations from, but there is no way Seismics have a whopping 8% more damage over Noxious Staff. Not to mention that Noxious Staff has much higher auto attacks (which add a surprising amount of damage)......

 

 

 

I always have been and always will be a fan of Seismics, but they are the inferior dps weapon. I will admit that.

[Autumntempest]

Sonic wave actually only increases the accuracy on the following hit, and not ability.

And I did note that this was from a pure dps perspective, that the advantage seismics have over nox staff would be lower on damage if one had to move around often.

I'm pretty sure that initial auto attack damage does do something, but from what I remember main hand and off hand damage are spread 2/3 and 1/3. You'd gain 1/2 extra damage on the initial hit but over time the advantage diminishes.

Now about conc blast, you have used wands before right? If you haven't or would like to test if what I said was correct, be my guest and buy a batwing wand and book and fight a lumbridge dummy. After using concentrated blast, on the third hit it deals 89% damage correct? It's true one would be at a disadvantage if one left conc blast to run one would be at a disadvantage, but if one did and used an ability at the time that the third hit of conc blast was to hit, one would deal the third hit of conc blast combined with the ability at the cost of an additional 0.6 seconds or so.

Let's let this ability be wrack.

So first 2 hits take 1.8 seconds and then when the third hit is about to come, you press wrack. This causes the third hit plus wrack to take 0.6 seconds than just allowing the third hit to occur, but grants you extra damage from wrack

So the damage is dealt as follows:

First 1.8 seconds: 75+82

Next 2.4 seconds:89+94

It's the same way that one used asphyxiation and at the last hit, also lands another ability so the 2 hits would stack.

And I would appreciate it if you do have mathematical calculations to support your arguments.

[Major Dash]

Please *thoroughly* read this. I don't think you understand how to properly use Concentrated Blast to keep adrenaline gain and dps to a maximum.

 

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Concentrated_Blast