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Russian invasion of Ukraine


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Once again that logic is absolutely putrid. As was said before Eastern Europe is of little strategic or economic importance to the US. The same is true of Syria. Japan, South Korea, and Iraq are orders of magnitude more significant to the US's interests.

 

Obama made Syria important when he drew his red line.

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♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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In this current case it is right on the border of NATO, which pretty much makes it US's business. It would be the same as if I don't know, Quebec and Canada went to war with each other.

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So I've noticed this thread's regulars all follow similar trends.

 

RPG is constantly dealing with psycho exes.

Muggi reminds us of the joys of polygamy.

Saq is totally oblivious to how much chicks dig him.

I strike out every other week.

Kalphite wages a war against the friend zone.

Randox pretty much stays rational.

Etc, etc

 

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Ehh I agree with sees. When you threaten to do something but don't, it doesn't make people think you're actually likely to follow through on your threats. Of course the scale is different, but the idea is still the same.

 

However, the US does have an existing military agreement with SK which pretty much mandates they get involved militarily if NK invades (I htink).

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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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Ehh I agree with sees. When you threaten to do something but don't, it doesn't make people think you're actually likely to follow through on your threats. Of course the scale is different, but the idea is still the same.

 

However, the US does have an existing military agreement with SK which pretty much mandates they get involved militarily if NK invades (I htink).

Sure, you can look at it that way but if a legitimate threat arises towards an area we have a vested interest in, it can and will still be dealt with. If China ever invaded Japan we would come to their aid, that's a fact. That Obama isn't a warmonger doesn't change that.

 

 

I'm not arguing that the President should or needs to be a "warmonger." I'm saying that when he draws a red line, states that chemical weapons would change his equation, then does absolutely nothing later, he loses face with the international community.

 

I don't think the U.S. should stick its nose in conflicts everywhere, but it should have enough influence that its rhetoric matters. If Obama states there will be consequences for xyz, and xyz occurs, there should be consequences. If Obama has no intentions to respond to xyz, he shouldn't make idle threats.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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Ehh I agree with sees. When you threaten to do something but don't, it doesn't make people think you're actually likely to follow through on your threats. Of course the scale is different, but the idea is still the same.

 

However, the US does have an existing military agreement with SK which pretty much mandates they get involved militarily if NK invades (I htink).

Sure, you can look at it that way but if a legitimate threat arises towards an area we have a vested interest in, it can and will still be dealt with. If China ever invaded Japan we would come to their aid, that's a fact. That Obama isn't a warmonger doesn't change that.

 

 

I'm not arguing that the President should or needs to be a "warmonger." I'm saying that when he draws a red line, states that chemical weapons would change his equation, then does absolutely nothing later, he loses face with the international community.

 

I don't think the U.S. should stick its nose in conflicts everywhere, but it should have enough influence that its rhetoric matters. If Obama states there will be consequences for xyz, and xyz occurs, there should be consequences. If Obama has no intentions to respond to xyz, he shouldn't make idle threats.

 

I don't think there has been any legitimate indication whatsoever from any party that he has lost face.

 

well, you won't get some foreign president saying "oh he won't do crap", but the actions of other countries can be telling.

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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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It seems like you're suggesting Putin saw that Obama didn't invade Syria after they used chemical weapons and took that as a go ahead to invade the Ukraine.

 

 

Syria was an easy example. I also seem to remember Obama telling Putin's aide that after the election he'd have more "flexibility." Put everything together and if I'm Putin, I'm not worried about the United States right now.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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It seems like you're suggesting Putin saw that Obama didn't invade Syria after they used chemical weapons and took that as a go ahead to invade the Ukraine.

 

Syria was an easy example. I also seem to remember Obama telling Putin's aide that after the election he'd have more "flexibility." Put everything together and if I'm Putin, I'm not worried about the United States right now.

He doesn't need to be. I don't want other countries to fear us. I'm tired of that..

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You're right, not spending trillions invading a Middle Eastern sandbox after they start killing their own people for the thousandth plus a half-remembered quotation is usually all the encouragement I need to invade another country.

 

 

Has Obama done anything to show backbone, moral clarity, or willingness to act on the international stage?

 

I can give you a laundry list of examples of how weak Obama's foreign policy is, and if I'm a regional power that doesn't have to worry about any super power, I'm doing what I want.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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First of all, I don't think that Putin would have listened to Ronny Raygun if he was president. 

 

Second of all, your assessment of the President's apparent weakness on the international stage is unfounded. Gallup polls from April suggest that a vast majority of the world approves of President Obama by a significant margin. Leaders like Putin or Assad would not have rolled over even if General MacArthur was bearing down on them, so your attempt to pin a chain of unrest throughout the world on a "spineless" U.S. president is absurd.

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"He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder."

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Ehh I agree with sees. When you threaten to do something but don't, it doesn't make people think you're actually likely to follow through on your threats. Of course the scale is different, but the idea is still the same.

 

However, the US does have an existing military agreement with SK which pretty much mandates they get involved militarily if NK invades (I htink).

Sure, you can look at it that way but if a legitimate threat arises towards an area we have a vested interest in, it can and will still be dealt with. If China ever invaded Japan we would come to their aid, that's a fact. That Obama isn't a warmonger doesn't change that.

 

 

I'm not arguing that the President should or needs to be a "warmonger." I'm saying that when he draws a red line, states that chemical weapons would change his equation, then does absolutely nothing later, he loses face with the international community.

 

I don't think the U.S. should stick its nose in conflicts everywhere, but it should have enough influence that its rhetoric matters. If Obama states there will be consequences for xyz, and xyz occurs, there should be consequences. If Obama has no intentions to respond to xyz, he shouldn't make idle threats.

 

I don't think there has been any legitimate indication whatsoever from any party that he has lost face.

 

well, you won't get some foreign president saying "oh he won't do crap", but the actions of other countries can be telling.

 

It seems like you're suggesting Putin saw that Obama didn't invade Syria after they used chemical weapons and took that as a go ahead to invade the Ukraine.

 

Well, that's not quite what I said. What I said was:

 

When you have a large world power not sticking to their guns, it does not make people think they're going to stick to their guns in the future. I'm not saying that had Obama acted in Syria, Putin wouldn't have invaded ukraine, but the behavior of the US over the past few years would certainly not have given him any pause.

 

@Range april is also pre-ukraine for the most part. Besides, I agree with the US being less of a "world police" - I just think it would be good for Obama to make up his mind, and not try to pretend to be willing to police other countries. I think the Syria situation would have been handled just fine if he simply didn't make the "red line" remarks.

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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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If Obama can't keep his word on smaller, easier matters, why would anyone think that he'd keep his word on more difficult ones?

 

If the U.S. went scorched earth with drones in Syria after the chemical weapons, who would've batted an eye? The U.S. has been in the middle east for most of the last decade.

If the US went scorched earth on Syria last summer it would be run by ISIS right now

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If Obama can't keep his word on smaller, easier matters, why would anyone think that he'd keep his word on more difficult ones?

 

If the U.S. went scorched earth with drones in Syria after the chemical weapons, who would've batted an eye? The U.S. has been in the middle east for most of the last decade.

If the US went scorched earth on Syria last summer it would be run by ISIS right now

 

 

Point wasn't that the U.S. should've gone scorched earth, it was that the U.S. could've had any response up to and including scorched earth to cover for the "red line" remark, and the international community wouldn't have been phased by it (Oh, well Obama did warn them not to use chemical weapons).

 

The President of the United States doesn't need to bluff; he's got the entire deck.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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If Obama can't keep his word on smaller, easier matters, why would anyone think that he'd keep his word on more difficult ones?

 

If the U.S. went scorched earth with drones in Syria after the chemical weapons, who would've batted an eye? The U.S. has been in the middle east for most of the last decade.

If the US went scorched earth on Syria last summer it would be run by ISIS right now

Point wasn't that the U.S. should've gone scorched earth, it was that the U.S. could've had any response up to and including scorched earth to cover for the "red line" remark, and the international community wouldn't have been phased by it (Oh, well Obama did warn them not to use chemical weapons).

 

The President of the United States doesn't need to bluff; he's got the entire deck.

So he's supposed to be perfect? He's a human being. We bluff everyday.

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professor-farnsworth.jpg

 

A Permanent Cease-Fire has been agreed between Russia and Ukraine.

 

 

 

 

Hopefully it is for real, for *everyone's* sake.

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“I had a feeling we weren’t coming back from this fight when it began.”

“Do you have any regrets?”

“I don’t. It seems surprising, I know, but I wouldn’t change a thing. This is how it was meant to be.”

“Huh, you never really notice how lovely the day is until you realize you’ll never see it again.”

“Mmmhmm.”

 

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professor-farnsworth.jpg

 

A Permanent Cease-Fire has been agreed between Russia and Ukraine.

 

 

 

 

Hopefully it is for real, for *everyone's* sake.

 

 

Well, Russia has already denied it again, because they can't admit a cease-fire when according to them, they aren't even involved. Anyway, I see no reason for Putin to stop here. He has done minor concessions before, to remain unpredictable and to show good faith, so the sanctions aren't amped up. I guess he wants a connection to Crimea over land to be able to sustain it, and right now, there's no reason for him not to go for that.

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He is already building a bridge to Crimea.

t3aGt.png

 

So I've noticed this thread's regulars all follow similar trends.

 

RPG is constantly dealing with psycho exes.

Muggi reminds us of the joys of polygamy.

Saq is totally oblivious to how much chicks dig him.

I strike out every other week.

Kalphite wages a war against the friend zone.

Randox pretty much stays rational.

Etc, etc

 

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This just in:

 

Ruskies abducted an Estonian counterintelligence officer and brought him to Russia.

+ quite a lot of activity and movement near our borders, cause Obama.

t3aGt.png

 

So I've noticed this thread's regulars all follow similar trends.

 

RPG is constantly dealing with psycho exes.

Muggi reminds us of the joys of polygamy.

Saq is totally oblivious to how much chicks dig him.

I strike out every other week.

Kalphite wages a war against the friend zone.

Randox pretty much stays rational.

Etc, etc

 

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Share on other sites

Unfortunately we have no contract or anything with Ukraine and Poroshenko himself told at the EU that they do not want any outside military help. It could be considered an intervention so as the things are right now, I can't support it.

 

But if there was a change in some of the circumstances then yeah, I would support it.

Only problem is, our standing army is only about 5000 strong + conscripts.

We don't really have anything to send them.

t3aGt.png

 

So I've noticed this thread's regulars all follow similar trends.

 

RPG is constantly dealing with psycho exes.

Muggi reminds us of the joys of polygamy.

Saq is totally oblivious to how much chicks dig him.

I strike out every other week.

Kalphite wages a war against the friend zone.

Randox pretty much stays rational.

Etc, etc

 

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Share on other sites

And FSB has confirmed, they were the ones.

 

Guys, Russia has made a direct attack on a NATO state.

2 days after the visit of Obama. Yeah, he was here 2 days ago.

 

Guess Putin is even ballsier than I thought.

This thing is getting worse every minute.

t3aGt.png

 

So I've noticed this thread's regulars all follow similar trends.

 

RPG is constantly dealing with psycho exes.

Muggi reminds us of the joys of polygamy.

Saq is totally oblivious to how much chicks dig him.

I strike out every other week.

Kalphite wages a war against the friend zone.

Randox pretty much stays rational.

Etc, etc

 

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