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Comp - Statement of Intent


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Hi all,

 

Please find our proposed 'Comp and Trimmed Guidelines', now renamed to 'Statements of Intent'.

 

We need your input before we can make these final! They're not finished by any means. Post your feedback, and let us know what you think.

 

Introduction:

 

When you wear a completionist cape, we want you to have a clear idea of your achievements. We want them to recognise dedication, effort and skill. As developers of game updates, we want to be unafraid to add requirements to either cape, as long as those requirements are of a strong quality and are categorised correctly.

 

It should be noted that no changes will be made retroactively to the current comp and trim requirements. The reasoning for this can be found at the bottom of the page.

 

Statements of Intent – Completionist Cape:

 


  • Aspirational. We want to return a sense of exclusivity to the comp cape

  • Uncomplicated. The cape should recognise someone who has completed the game. It should be shorthand for a person who has exhausted all core content in the game (including skill levels, tasks, quests and audio tracks)

  • Maintained. The cape should require regular maintenance by a player; however, a motivated and active player should be able to spend the majority of the year wearing it

  • Rewarding. The cape's requirements should be fun to complete, engaging and worthwhile. If a requirement causes frustration or lack of engagement, then we should reconsider the design of the content, or reserve the requirement for the trimmed comp cape
     
    If the content contains cosmetic rewards/unlocks, they should be considered as ‘stretch goals’ and potentially added as trim requirements

  • Encompassing. Every type of update should be recognised on the cape. Bossing, questing and minigames are all equally valid game content

  • Unchanging. Unless it is bugged, a requirement should not be altered or moved to trimmed comp once it has been added

  • Unique. A requirement should not duplicate an action that was featured in another requirement

  • Fair. Requirements should be challenging, but not unfairly so:

> Content with a real-world duration (farming, ports voyages) will only be triggered as a comp requirement once a player has had a small but feasible amount of time to complete it

> Every requirement should be considerate of its effect on player behaviour, particularly in multiplayer games (leeching, boosting, etc)

> A player should never be able to lose progress on a task

 

Statements of Intent – Trimmed Completionist Cape:

 

These statements will guide all future requirements. A trimmed requirement should also be

Aspirational, Maintained, Encompassing, Unchanging and Fair.


  • Stretch goals.The intention is for trimmed completionist requirements to provide a series of stretch goals that are above-and-beyond the completion of the game

  • Demanding. Requirements should demand a large degree of skill, dedication and/or effort to earn. There is less of a need to avoid frustration and a lack of engagement

  • Feasible. If phenomenal levels of skill, dedication and/or effort are needed, then the requirement and perhaps even the attached content should be reconsidered

  • Cosmetic. The associated content should not unlock substantial and unique rewards, as this is the province of comp requirements

Why Not Change the Capes Retroactively?

 

It is important that existing requirements are not changed or upgraded as a result of these statements of intent. Regardless of whether they conform to the above statements, a large number of players have already completed these achievements, or are on the path to completing them. Months of effort have been dedicated to them. To change them now would be to undermine those efforts.

 

Case Studies:

 

This section looks at a few existing requirements as case studies, and examines whether they would be upgraded or downgraded according to the Statements of Intent. Remember - we are not changing these existing requirements, as it would undermine the achievement of those who had already achieved them. These are used purely as examples.


  • Unlock the 'Of the Cadarn' title by killing a combined total of 1,000 Cadarn magus and rangers - This unlocks a cosmetic reward and is a stretch goal, with no system of unlocks or progression structures. It is a good example of something we would now add as a trimmed completionist requirement. Upgraded to trim

  • Must perform well enough in Rush of Blood to impress Morvran - Completing 15 waves of Rush of Blood is already a completionist requirement, thanks to the Tirranwn Task Set. This unlocks minimal rewards, is a stretch goal and demands extreme skill from the player. It is another good example of something we would add as a trimmed completionist requirement. Upgraded to trim

  • Earned the title The Famous from Morvran's Slayer Challenge to collect dark crystals from bosses - There is a large amount of duplicated action here, as the Boss Slayer requirement also requires a kill of each boss. However, the experience of fighting each boss is different, thanks to the inclusion of dark crystals. In retrospect, we would change the design of the challenge itself to better suit a comp requirement, rather than upgrade the task to trim. The design would be changed to enforce the use of a dark crystal for the first boss, meaning all battles would feel different, not just the last seven, and a more substantial and unique reward would have been added. We might also have considered a better checkpoint system. Kept as a comp requirement, with some design amendments.

  • Completed the Sheep Shearer miniquest/Witch's Potion miniquest - These are currently trimmed requirements, but are substantial pieces of content with unlocks and rewards. If added now, they would likely be completionist requirements. Downgraded to comp

  • 100% completed all Fremennik sagas - There is no doubting that this feels like a completionist requirement, as players gained a unique reward and unlocked additional content/story. It is a duplicated task, however, since the player has to do the same thing in the Dungeoneering Task Set. In retrospect, we would not have required the completion of the unabridged sagas again on launch of the task set, as this simply duplicated an action with no additional benefit. Kept as a comp requirement, with some design amendments.

  • Found all memorium crystals on Freneskae - While this may demand effort and cause risk to the player, these are for from excessive. It requires some duplication of previous efforts (exploring Freneskae again), but the objective and experience is suitably different. This would stay as a completionist requirement if we were to reclassify requirements. Kept as a comp requirement.

  • Speak to Lanthus while wearing a full set of profound decorative armour from Castle Wars - While frustration and 'grinding' is legitimate for trimmed requirements, this task includes excessive amounts of both. The requirement also has an adverse effect on player behaviour, and can lead to boosting and leeching in the minigame. In hindsight, the design of the requirement would have been changed to a much, much smaller number of wins, perhaps even asking for a blanket number of wins across a number of minigames, so players could have more choice in which game they approached for the task. But, since we are not changing requirements retroactively, it stays as it is. Kept as a trim requirement, with some design amendments.

 

 

 

 

As posted my Mod Osborne on the HLF.

 

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So if I get this right, they are making guidelines for future comp and trim comp cape requirements? Also I don't really agree with the "no changing of current requirements", if something is broken, or doesn't belong as a req it needs to be fixed. Yes some players might get upset, but there are also players upset with the current reqs. At least I don't see a problem in changing reqs from comp to trimmed comp or visa versa.

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They already changed the CW requirement from 4000 games to profound armor. Don't see why they can't change it again. Then again, allowing trimmers to use any minigame would just shift the leeching / boosting to whatever the most efficient minigame for the task would happen to be. It's going to happen no matter what, because these players are just trying to check off the req, they are not playing the minigame for fun.

 

Also, I've already done rush of blood and several other of the requirements, and I assure you I don't give a damn if they are removed / moved to trim. I don't want other players to have to go through the same pain I did.

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They already changed the CW requirement from 4000 games to profound armor. Don't see why they can't change it again. Then again, allowing trimmers to use any minigame would just shift the leeching / boosting to whatever the most efficient minigame for the task would happen to be. It's going to happen no matter what, because these players are just trying to check off the req, they are not playing the minigame for fun.

 

Also, I've already done rush of blood and several other of the requirements, and I assure you I don't give a damn if they are removed / moved to trim. I don't want other players to have to go through the same pain I did.

 

Hence people are suggesting to change the requirement to something like full hybrid set or all three hybrid sets. It would help quite a bit with preventing it to be boosted. Remember that the core reason CW is boosted now, is due to basically months of standing in a specific place. If I am not mistaken, it would take about 72.5 days non stop playing tie games, to fulfill the requirement.

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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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These statements do seem good, but it seems beyond stupid to not actually move/alter existing reqs to conform to them.

 

It's like formulating an action plan to stop getting punctures by avoid roads covered in nails, but expecting the already punctured tires to work without repairs.

 

I can see why they can't outright remove reqs, but it isn't going to end anybodies world if a few reqs are upgraded or downgraded. The ones worthy of downgrade most enroute to comp probably already have and the ones worthy of upgrade sure it may be annoying to a degree if you already did them, but it just means your closer to comp cape.

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@Sy, reading your post here and @ HLF seems soo odd.

 

They are the same, yet are completely different.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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RSOF Sy Accursed likes to be a bit more eloquent, structured and less rant-ish so he seems like a voice worth listening to in Jmod land.

 

Tip.it Sy Accursed likes to say it how he thinks it. 

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On another note the following -current- Trimmed Requirements, are what I think could be moved down to Completionist. Those in brackets are edge cases and could be a tweaked completionist requirement, while stay a trimmed requirement:

 

Highest rune shop unlocked from Ali Morrisane.
All hot-air balloon travel routes unlocked.
Completed the Sheep Shearer miniquest.
Completed the Witch's Potion miniquest.
Eagle transport routes fully unlocked.
Defeated the 4 sub-bosses in the Pollnivneach Slayer Dungeon after Smoking Kills.
Unlocked ability to craft all Slayer items, including fused helms and to deliver killing blows quicker.
Master White Knight rank obtained.
Flying broomstick unlocked. (Includes unlocking the teleport option & getting all magic XP).
Found all hidden treasure from Making History.
[Achieved a score of 1,250+ in Conquest.]
Unlocked the full power of the Ivandis flail and blisterwood weapons (500 vyrewatch corpses burnt).
[unlocked maximum access to Mobilising Armies rewards (401 Rank).]
Completed all court cases.
Completed all Barbarian Training with Otto.
[unlocked all rewards from the Artisans Workshop.]
Obtained all circus clothing.
Unlocked all traits from the Dungeoneering rewards trader.
Earned the Vyrelord/Vyrelady title after the Branches of Darkmeyer.
Made a Zaros symbol in Char's training cave.
Obtain Song from the Depths hidden rewards.
Obtain all the dragonkin journals by killing the Queen Black Dragon.
Explore the Eastern Lands as far as the Shield from your player-owned port.
Complete the Hyu-Ji, Quin and Eastern Curiosities storylines from your player-owned port.
Unlock all ten pieces of lore from elder chronicles.
[unlock all permanent effects from Death's store.]
Complete all three additional challenges from Maria in the Broken Home quest.

 

 

EDIT: Those in bold have been highlighted as bigger reward.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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I've not even invested a lot of time in trim reqs and I have all bar 3 of those done and in fact I thought most of them were just plain reqs. XD

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I've not even invested a lot of time in trim reqs and I have all bar 3 of those done and in fact I thought most of them were just plain reqs. XD

 

I have done all but 2. Excluding the brackets. If including, all but 5.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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Dragonkin journals, boss slayer rewards (I know both highly shocking for a player who doesnt really like pvm, even if he has enjoyed it more lately) and elder chronicles (99 div pre-elder div) for me

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Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue

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 Unchanging would be great if the capes weren't broken at the moment. This is basically admitting the problem and then refusing to change it. 

 

Unchanging also means that if in the future J Mods classify something wrong then they can just say that "oh well, we can't change it now". Unchanging is a catch-all to prevent devs from actually listening to player feedback, it should be removed.

 

If all reqs are made to fit these guidelines then they will be naturally unchanging, however deliberately adding in an out if you make a mistake or Jagex wants to ignore player feedback is kind of a slap in the face.

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If the CW req was changed to full Hybrid (or similar) I might actually eventually go for Trim lol. I just can't justify spending as much time on Castle Wars (even if I enjoy playing a game or two legitimately every once in a while) as they ask. I'm sure there are a few other things with large time requirements I'd struggle with but none seem as imposing as that. oh wait shattered hearts

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They already changed the CW requirement from 4000 games to profound armor. Don't see why they can't change it again. Then again, allowing trimmers to use any minigame would just shift the leeching / boosting to whatever the most efficient minigame for the task would happen to be. It's going to happen no matter what, because these players are just trying to check off the req, they are not playing the minigame for fun.

 

Also, I've already done rush of blood and several other of the requirements, and I assure you I don't give a damn if they are removed / moved to trim. I don't want other players to have to go through the same pain I did.

2150 pure wins, ~44%, assuming you boost - which less face it, many, mnay people do. The problem (for me) isn't so much the size of the requirement, but rather the fact that it inadvertently encourages people to kill a mini-game. Losing yields no benefits (ticket wise) so why would I bother playing properly, and this feeds the 'leech/boost' system, but A LOT. That is a flaw in the mini-game as much as the requirement

 

Aside from this - I find it completely and utterly ridiculous that they note that there are some ridiculous requirements - either for their size or simply because they 'double up' yet flat out refuse to change/move them to Trim/"True Completion" items. WE HAVE MADE AN ERROR WE IDENTIFY THE ERROR BUT BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED WE WILL JUST MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS. No, you should sack up, apologise for it being stupid, and move it along. Will people be pissed? [bleep], they always are. [New training method] has COMPLETELY WIPED ALL MY ACHIEVEMENTS THIS IS HORRIBLE.

 

So they move the CW trim req off trim all together - oh no, all that time you spent boosting is wasted. What a shame.

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[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

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So they move the CW trim req off trim all together - oh no, all that time you spent boosting is wasted. What a shame.

y-yes please

 

NO SOUP FOR YOU

Honestly, this is pissweak. 

 

[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

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They already changed the CW requirement from 4000 games to profound armor. Don't see why they can't change it again. Then again, allowing trimmers to use any minigame would just shift the leeching / boosting to whatever the most efficient minigame for the task would happen to be. It's going to happen no matter what, because these players are just trying to check off the req, they are not playing the minigame for fun.

 

Also, I've already done rush of blood and several other of the requirements, and I assure you I don't give a damn if they are removed / moved to trim. I don't want other players to have to go through the same pain I did.

Do you think investing a massive amount of time into such a painful activity was ultimately worth it?

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They already changed the CW requirement from 4000 games to profound armor. Don't see why they can't change it again. Then again, allowing trimmers to use any minigame would just shift the leeching / boosting to whatever the most efficient minigame for the task would happen to be. It's going to happen no matter what, because these players are just trying to check off the req, they are not playing the minigame for fun.

 

Also, I've already done rush of blood and several other of the requirements, and I assure you I don't give a damn if they are removed / moved to trim. I don't want other players to have to go through the same pain I did.

2150 pure wins, ~44%, assuming you boost - which less face it, many, mnay people do. The problem (for me) isn't so much the size of the requirement, but rather the fact that it inadvertently encourages people to kill a mini-game. Losing yields no benefits (ticket wise) so why would I bother playing properly, and this feeds the 'leech/boost' system, but A LOT. That is a flaw in the mini-game as much as the requirement

 

Aside from this - I find it completely and utterly ridiculous that they note that there are some ridiculous requirements - either for their size or simply because they 'double up' yet flat out refuse to change/move them to Trim/"True Completion" items. WE HAVE MADE AN ERROR WE IDENTIFY THE ERROR BUT BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED WE WILL JUST MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS. No, you should sack up, apologise for it being stupid, and move it along. Will people be pissed? [bleep], they always are. [New training method] has COMPLETELY WIPED ALL MY ACHIEVEMENTS THIS IS HORRIBLE.

 

So they move the CW trim req off trim all together - oh no, all that time you spent boosting is wasted. What a shame.

 

 

I would be thrilled if all that time I spent on Castle Wars was wasted. It was a stupid requirement then, its a stupid requirement now, it should be destroyed.

R.I.P. The olde nite. A legend is gone but not forgotten.

 

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Honestly some content is quite taxing in regards to the reward versus benchmark placement. I mean look at runespan esteem ranks. I think castle wars wasnt as blatently disrespectful because of the cosmetics from it.



Maxed [February 14, 2012] | Completionist [October 25, 2012] | Trimmed Completionist [in Progress]

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okay, so uh

 

if they make a mistake, if the mistake lasts long enough they won't change it, does that mean that they can basically keep making mistakes as long as they just "forget" to ever acknowledge them

 

do we continue to play a game that will basically become increasingly broken as long as some players demand it stay that way in order to maintain their sense of superiority

 

side note i'm remembering just now while reading through the list: COLOR THE ELDER CHRONICLES SOMETHING BESIDES BLACK

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Initially I thought it was a good requirement, because it is part of "completing the game" but then after seeing what effects it had on CW (and because it becomes a half year grind or so) I don't think it is a good requirement anymore

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okay, so uh

 

if they make a mistake, if the mistake lasts long enough they won't change it, does that mean that they can basically keep making mistakes as long as they just "forget" to ever acknowledge them

 

do we continue to play a game that will basically become increasingly broken as long as some players demand it stay that way in order to maintain their sense of superiority

 

side note i'm remembering just now while reading through the list: COLOR THE ELDER CHRONICLES SOMETHING BESIDES BLACK

 

That is the other maze people are afraid of that Jagex will use. Basically, we can only point jagex to the list and say the requirements do not match with the intent, but ultimately they decide what is comp req, and what isn't.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

For account help/issues, please follow this link:

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Trim comp doesn't force you to obtain full necromancer, full superior elite void, full trouble brewing out fits, or all soul wars pets... Why is profound armor on there, then?

Runescape player since 2005
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The profound req doesn't make as much sense as the original professional cape req.

 

My opinion: Professional cape req was sensible, because it was the final cape unlock you could get at CW.

However, making the professional cape require 5k games (back in 2010?) was pretty insane.

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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