Update [9-2-15] Ninja Update – Responsive Combat

[Quasar]

 

glhf

[Wkw]

The whole damn game is pure RNG, it does not reward lucky scrubs as you say, it rewards RANDOM people. You are acting as if none of the so called 'hardcore pvmers' never got any pets. Do you think they did not feel rewarded when they got their pets? That's clearly not the case and it's obvious when they walk their pets with massive killcounts around the grand exchange.

 

According to the recently released killcount records, noone even has 3k vorago kills while the drop rate is 1 in 5000. You have no right to complain before you go over 10k kills. Yes, the numbers are high, boohoo. The whole update is bad because you have a friend who cries too much?

 

TL;DR Gold Final boss is a realistic goal for many, including two of rs3 top streamers on Twitch. (Omid and Dragonseance). To say it does not recognize their talents and dedication is just dumb.

 

 

 

You obviously know nothing about this topic.

 

Do you actually understand anything about the threshold system? It ensures that as your kills increase (and you meet thresholds), your drop rate will be more favourable to you. For instance, QBD starts out at 1/2500. If you've done, say, 1000 QBD kills, then your drop according to the threshold system is 3/2500, or 1/833. It eventually caps out at 10/2500 (which is obtained at 5,000 kills), which is a drop rate of 1/250.

 

Vitalis starts out at 1/5000. After 3000 Vorago kills, it remains at 1/5000. After 5000 Vorago kills, your odds are still 1/5000. After 100,000 kills, your odds are still 1/5000. You are basically being asked to win a lottery while investing massive amounts of time and effort (as Vorago is one of the most time consuming and difficult bosses in the game). An average teams gets about 4-5 kills per hour.

 

Thus having half the pets means nothing. Vitalis is far by the rarest and most difficult to get pet. If you don't have it, you aren't getting Final Boss Gold. It is the limiting factor. You can theoretically camp all the pets in the game that have a threshold system (since your drop rate is more favourable over time) - that does not apply to Vitalis, you can camp 10,000 Voragos, and your drop rate on the 10,001 th kill will still be 1/5000, basically you're being asked to win a lottery, at a high level boss. All the pets that Dragonseance has obtained so far were threshold pets - they do not compare at all to the Vitalis. You'd know this if you actually knew what you were talking about.

You, sir, are implying way too much. I know exactly how the thresholds work. If you don't have vitalis, you go and get it. Simple as that. It may take a year or it may take a day but it's doable. Something being more time consuming compared to the others is simply irrelevant.

 

It's just your blind hate against 'luck' talking.

 

You speak as if if you do vorago for 100k kills, you are 100% going to get the drop. That is not true. You may be very unlucky and never get it in 100,000 kills, or you may get it in 1. Each kill is 1/5000 chance to get it. Doesn't mean by 5000 kills you will have 1.

 

You do not know how it works. As long as it is 1 in anything, other than 1, there is a chance you may never ever get it. At no point is the drop guaranteed.

[Kaur]

You speak as if if you do vorago for 100k kills, you are 100% going to get the drop. That is not true. You may be very unlucky and never get it in 100,000 kills, or you may get it in 1. Each kill is 1/5000 chance to get it. Doesn't mean by 5000 kills you will have 1.

 

You do not know how it works. As long as it is 1 in anything, other than 1, there is a chance you may never ever get it. At no point is the drop guaranteed.

I never said that though.

Stop trying to act smart and give me statistics lessons lol.

 

 

 

 

wait how is 5k cw games any more "oh come on" than insane final boss?

One is just standing around doing nothing for no real purpose while the other is actually playing the game? Edited February 10, 2015 by Kaur

[Saradomin_Mage]

wait how is 5k cw games any more "oh come on" than insane final boss?

[Quasar]

[Yoko Kurama]

 

You obviously know nothing about this topic.

 

Do you actually understand anything about the threshold system? It ensures that as your kills increase (and you meet thresholds), your drop rate will be more favourable to you. For instance, QBD starts out at 1/2500. If you've done, say, 1000 QBD kills, then your drop according to the threshold system is 3/2500, or 1/833. It eventually caps out at 10/2500 (which is obtained at 5,000 kills), which is a drop rate of 1/250.

 

Vitalis starts out at 1/5000. After 3000 Vorago kills, it remains at 1/5000. After 5000 Vorago kills, your odds are still 1/5000. After 100,000 kills, your odds are still 1/5000. You are basically being asked to win a lottery while investing massive amounts of time and effort (as Vorago is one of the most time consuming and difficult bosses in the game). An average teams gets about 4-5 kills per hour.

 

Thus having half the pets means nothing. Vitalis is far by the rarest and most difficult to get pet. If you don't have it, you aren't getting Final Boss Gold. It is the limiting factor. You can theoretically camp all the pets in the game that have a threshold system (since your drop rate is more favourable over time) - that does not apply to Vitalis, you can camp 10,000 Voragos, and your drop rate on the 10,001 th kill will still be 1/5000, basically you're being asked to win a lottery, at a high level boss. All the pets that Dragonseance has obtained so far were threshold pets - they do not compare at all to the Vitalis. You'd know this if you actually knew what you were talking about.

You, sir, are implying way too much. I know exactly how the thresholds work. If you don't have vitalis, you go and get it. Simple as that. It may take a year or it may take a day but it's doable. Something being more time consuming compared to the others is simply irrelevant.

 

It's just your blind hate against 'luck' talking.

 

 

My hate against 'luck' is anything but blind. I consciously hate a system that does not reward effort or skill.

 

As for the rest of your post, lol. "It's a 1/5K chance, you just need to go and get it, man". I wonder if you also go to people and tell them "You just go to the lottery store and win it...."

[xpx]

That x axis is wrong. It's number of 'drops', not kills. Vitalis drop chance is 1/5k 'drops', 1/1k kills...

[Quasar]

Fair, but in a 5 man team where everyone is pulling his weight, I doubt an average of 1 drop/kill in the long term is too far off the mark, especially if people rotate through roles.

 

If your team lets you bomb and voke after every phase, good for you.

[Kaur]

My hate against 'luck' is anything but blind. I consciously hate a system that does not reward effort or skill.

 

As for the rest of your post, lol. "It's a 1/5K chance, you just need to go and get it, man". I wonder if you also go to people and tell them "You just go to the lottery store and win it...."

Again, if you hate the basics of the game so much, why play it? It will not change no matter how much you rant.

Stop blowing things out of proportion with your lottery example but if that's what you are trying to do, then buy half of all the tickets and pray to rngsus. 50/50 chance to win, even better than getting Vitalis!

[Major Dash]

wait how is 5k cw games any more "oh come on" than insane final boss?

 

 

Imagine if the CW req was "Do Castle Wars games until I say you can stop. You will probably get this message around 5,000 games, but you could get it after your first or 10,000th game." People who really wanted trim would be furious.

[Arceus]

 

wait how is 5k cw games any more "oh come on" than insane final boss?

 

 

Imagine if the CW req was "Do Castle Wars games until I say you can stop. You will probably get this message around 5,000 games, but you could get it after your first or 10,000th game." People who really wanted trim would be furious.

 

But I thought there was some support for putting Hybrid armor as a requirement instead and isn't that more or less the same thing? <_<

[Yoko Kurama]

 

My hate against 'luck' is anything but blind. I consciously hate a system that does not reward effort or skill.

 

As for the rest of your post, lol. "It's a 1/5K chance, you just need to go and get it, man". I wonder if you also go to people and tell them "You just go to the lottery store and win it...."

Again, if you hate the basics of the game so much, why play it? It will not change no matter how much you rant.

Stop blowing things out of proportion with your lottery example but if that's what you are trying to do, then buy half of all the tickets and pray to rngsus. 50/50 chance to win, even better than getting Vitalis!

 

 

Nope. I don't accept the "if you don't like it stop playing" mentality. I can continue to hate that aspect of the game and still play, and still ask that it be changed. Hell, thresholds were recently added to the game, and they are a step away from RNG (thresholds are an anti-RNG mechanic). A few years ago that would have been unthinkable, but Jagex did do it. Their original idea for boss pets was a guaranteed pet threshold system (so going back to the QBD pet, it has a rate of 1/2500 - their original plan was that at 2,500 kills, you'd be guaranteed to get the the pet), but they changed it at the last minute. So the sort of system that I like was actually something Jagex considered, and was very close to implementing at one point.

 

And who says it won't change? Plenty of things have been changed because of popular demand in RS. They said flat out that they wouldn't do boss pet overrides, and kept to that line for 2 months, and people kept on asking that they do it (I was one such person, and I personally asked J Mods to do it). Well, what do you know? A few days ago a J Mod said they are now working on boss pet overrides. Never say never.

 

I am not blowing anything out of proportion. The lottery example is 100% analogous to this. Drops in Runescape literally work like a lottery. It's just that most drops are common enough that you can typically get them in a reasonable time. Rare drops such as Vitalis are a different story though, and they literally work like a lottery. Hell, I think there are lotteries in real life with odds better than 1/5000. So I will keep using that example, no matter how much it annoys you. If you don't think the lottery example is analogous, then you're not playing the same game as the rest of us.

[Kaur]

Thing is, it's not a popular demand. ;)

 

As for the don't like don't play, I don't accept it either for most cases but when it comes to very basics of the games fundamental mechanics it's different. Last time a fundamental change like that happened(EOC duh) a huge amount of players quit, I don't think Jagex is going to repeat the same mistake.

 

1/5000 IS common enough. Maybe kill goblins for a 1/10 drop chance of goblin mail if you think this is too much for you. There are options!

[Ammako]

So I got on and tried it.

Why did they call this responsive combat again?

[Yoko Kurama]

Thing is, it's not a popular demand. ;)

 

As for the don't like don't play, I don't accept it either for most cases but when it comes to very basics of the games fundamental mechanics it's different. Last time a fundamental change like that happened(EOC duh) a huge amount of players quit, I don't think Jagex is going to repeat the same mistake.

 

1/5000 IS common enough. Maybe kill goblins for a 1/10 drop chance of goblin mail if you think this is too much for you. There are options!

 

As for popular demand, there's a significant amount of people in the hardcore PVM community who hate RNG with a passion, and they particularly hate seeing "X person has [insert single digit] kills for Y pet" happening. Don't think I'd be alone on that one.

 

I don't think they will change Final boss Gold, or Vitalis - and I don't personally care enough about either. They can leave it as is, just like Castle Wars and Trim. It's too late to change anything on that now. I won't be going for Final Boss Gold - I can live without that, but I do take objection to any assertion that this is for hardcore PVM'ers - it isn't, it's for lucky people, which is what my original complaint was. I don't actually care that the Final Boss Gold exists.

 

I do want them to implement thresholds/guaranteed thresholds for all future pets and Araxxor, though.

 

"1/5000 rate is common enough" - At Vorago? Lol.

[Shooter585]

Pets are supposed to be extremely rare stop complaining

 

I like this update, I always thought it was weird that greater demons were cool with me chilling in the forinthry dungeon

[Yoko Kurama]

Pets are supposed to be extremely rare stop complaining

 

I like this update, I always thought it was weird that greater demons were cool with me chilling in the forinthry dungeon

 

Tell that to the dozens of people who have various pets after only a few dozen kills.

[Blutters]

 

 

wait how is 5k cw games any more "oh come on" than insane final boss?

 

 

Imagine if the CW req was "Do Castle Wars games until I say you can stop. You will probably get this message around 5,000 games, but you could get it after your first or 10,000th game." People who really wanted trim would be furious.

 

But I thought there was some support for putting Hybrid armor as a requirement instead and isn't that more or less the same thing? <_<

 

Hybrid armor essentially does have a threshold system - you're fairly likely to start getting pieces of it after a certain amount of kills, the amount of which varies within a tolerable range among different players.

I feel like they used to "say" that you could play a single round of a minigame and get a piece, but I've long since come to suspect there's probably a threshold at both ends of the gambit (if I'm using that correctly), meaning there's something of a minimum number of rounds won.

[michel555555]

Players can now select a faster wave spawn in the Fight Kiln.

 

Omg yay a whole minute or two shaved off of kiln time. Now make multiple waves spawn if you don't kill fast enough to actually make it interesting.

 

edit: also

 

lets make combat better by making it so no one can fight for more then a min without dcing

[Quasar]

Actually kilns are much faster now.  expect around 18-20 mins vs 30 or so before

[Arceus]

Hybrid armor essentially does have a threshold system - you're fairly likely to start getting pieces of it after a certain amount of kills, the amount of which varies within a tolerable range among different players.

I feel like they used to "say" that you could play a single round of a minigame and get a piece, but I've long since come to suspect there's probably a threshold at both ends of the gambit (if I'm using that correctly), meaning there's something of a minimum number of rounds won.

Hmm that's an interesting fact, so a certain minimum number of rounds before you can get the armor, and then it does operate on a threshold system. I guess the armor is rare and not that useful so I'd never heard of that information, though I have heard of people obtaining multiple pieces very close together (in time/games).

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

Bull [bleep]ing shit. GF 160+ KPH at TDs. AND ESPECIALLY, now I'll never get 180 KPH.

 

Bombardment stacking doesn't work and several other methods I successfully did YESTERDAY, now longer work because the attacks hit some tick or ticks faster.

 

Combat is not any faster. It's just some fairy illusion shit. Oooh, Bombardment shows its damage a few ticks sooner!! NOW I CAN FEEL THE POWER...

 

TDs were the only thing on RS that entertained me, only because I pushed myself to be better than most anyone else. And I did accomplish that, but now what's the point if the only strategy at TDs is gone?

For every improvement, there is an equal and opposite nerf.

 

This update was not an improvement. It's like saying adding an extra 0 all damage/health values is an improvement. There is no change in DPS, only how 'responsive combat feels' which differs between each player anyway.

 

 

This. I am totally not used to this new 'feel', and so it's very annoying. It's rather annoying having to deal with major changes to the combat system every time Jagex gets the urge every few months. Not saying they shouldn't do any changes, but something like how responsiveness feels shouldn't be changed at this point. It is annoying constantly having to readjust.

[Saru Inc]

 

 

 

Bull [bleep]ing shit. GF 160+ KPH at TDs. AND ESPECIALLY, now I'll never get 180 KPH.

 

Bombardment stacking doesn't work and several other methods I successfully did YESTERDAY, now longer work because the attacks hit some tick or ticks faster.

 

Combat is not any faster. It's just some fairy illusion shit. Oooh, Bombardment shows its damage a few ticks sooner!! NOW I CAN FEEL THE POWER...

 

TDs were the only thing on RS that entertained me, only because I pushed myself to be better than most anyone else. And I did accomplish that, but now what's the point if the only strategy at TDs is gone?

For every improvement, there is an equal and opposite nerf.

 

This update was not an improvement. It's like saying adding an extra 0 all damage/health values is an improvement. There is no change in DPS, only how 'responsive combat feels' which differs between each player anyway.

 

 

This. I am totally not used to this new 'feel', and so it's very annoying. It's rather annoying having to deal with major changes to the combat system every time Jagex gets the urge every few months. Not saying they shouldn't do any changes, but something like how responsiveness feels shouldn't be changed at this point. It is annoying constantly having to readjust.

 

 

 

I was very excited for this update. I thought this meant that when I click away to stop attacking, my methhead-of-a-runescape-character wouldn't continually try to run back, despite auto-retal off and no abilities queued. Nope. Still tokin' the meth, and still running back in for last hit. Not as easy to double up on thresholds either.

 

I actually liked the delay in Snapshot. It was like "o, one hit? thats it? NOPE"

[V O R K]

Well we're almost out of EoC beta it seems. 

 

Praying to RNGesus is okay-ish in RS, I have other MMO's with similar odds but then there's twenty other people that have the same chance aswell.

 

Oh yis much fun seeing your noobguildmember get the drop you've been wanting for ages.

 

:shrugs: I just go do something else then, better luck next time

[Blutters]

 

Hybrid armor essentially does have a threshold system - you're fairly likely to start getting pieces of it after a certain amount of kills, the amount of which varies within a tolerable range among different players.

I feel like they used to "say" that you could play a single round of a minigame and get a piece, but I've long since come to suspect there's probably a threshold at both ends of the gambit (if I'm using that correctly), meaning there's something of a minimum number of rounds won.

Hmm that's an interesting fact, so a certain minimum number of rounds before you can get the armor, and then it does operate on a threshold system. I guess the armor is rare and not that useful so I'd never heard of that information, though I have heard of people obtaining multiple pieces very close together (in time/games).

 

Once you receive one piece, more are generally quick to follow.