Thus
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Posts posted by Thus
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I just wish there was an easier way to get metal fragments right now.
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Interesting month. Not worried about new rare, Armadyl will probably win because the alternative is too much of a risk, plus Bandos based on the lore you get from the factions is arguably evil.
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Who said it couldn't be fun to do whatever you have to do for t99 gear.
Don't even bother reasoning with them. This is just another argument about time/effort. Funny how its the same people in every topic now still complaining about the same things.
Face it, Jagex has a business model, one that is shared with nearly every other MMO. Giving people max equipment quickly has been shown to hurt more than help people to keep playing the game over an extended period, as if you have max equipment what do you have to strive for? An example of a game I played that is like this is Terraria. Although it is not an MMO, you could play online with people and host servers. And although the creators of the game didn't exactly GIVE people the items (they were items you had to make or find and it took a while), it was easy to hack into the game and spawn the best stuff for yourself. But people said "Half the game is about creating cool stuff so no big deal right? They can now use those items to have more fun right?" They were so wrong. So what happened? People got all the best stuff, got bored, and stopped playing even though there was the creation aspect of the game. No one explored generated worlds anymore because there was no point to doing it. For over a year, playership dropped dramatically. Recently, an update spiked playership because it added about 100 new items, but then it dropped again for the same reason.
Jagex can make things less rare, sure, but then you will be statistically less likely to play their game. And because you are still playing their game right now even though you are complaining, they don't see a reason to change it. People haven't quit because seismics are too expensive, they quit for other reasons.
Also funny it's always the same conceited wagons who argue "U just 2 lazy L, grind frost dragons 4 400 hrs or gtfo plocks"
What you fail to grasp is that "we" are not advocating an easy button. Grind is necessary for the survival of an MMO, indeed. But there needs to be BALANCE. If items are too easy to get, people don't have any goals and quickly become bored. However, if items are too far out of reach, the same result occurs. Goals have to be realistic or else people simply become discouraged and give up.
How do you try to make a mockery of your opponent when you have no convincing argument? Make them look stupid, put words in their mouth, misspell them purposefully. Not going to go to that level of immaturity, thanks.
Anyway, on to the second point. The fact that you and people like you are still playing and trying to achieve something even though they are out of reach means that Jagex hit the sweet spot and isn't going to change it. If everyone who complained about things being too expensive actually stopped playing instead of complaining while playing, then they would change it. But there is no need to change it in Jagex's eyes, which is the point I was making.
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Lol I disagree with the part where he says "if you have to ask, then you know there is something wrong with it so don't do it."Let's please end all this drama. I personally asked Jmod Mat K.
I've had to ask if using joy2key to play using a controller could be flagged as botting, doesn't mean there actually was anything wrong with doing it.
He's just giving an answer without actually giving an answer. Jagex could literally list everything that is okay and not okay to use, avoiding this years long confusion altogether, but they won't. And now we have mods conflicting over what is right to use and what is not right to use, including 2 jmods who have played a combined 16 years yet neither have broken 1k total level. Jagex needs to get actual players together and go through commonly used input options and come to a consensus for those, then when questions arise about things like that joy2key, meet and come to a consensus about that too.
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Who said it couldn't be fun to do whatever you have to do for t99 gear.
Don't even bother reasoning with them. This is just another argument about time/effort. Funny how its the same people in every topic now still complaining about the same things.
Face it, Jagex has a business model, one that is shared with nearly every other MMO. Giving people max equipment quickly has been shown to hurt more than help people to keep playing the game over an extended period, as if you have max equipment what do you have to strive for? An example of a game I played that is like this is Terraria. Although it is not an MMO, you could play online with people and host servers. And although the creators of the game didn't exactly GIVE people the items (they were items you had to make or find and it took a while), it was easy to hack into the game and spawn the best stuff for yourself. But people said "Half the game is about creating cool stuff so no big deal right? They can now use those items to have more fun right?" They were so wrong. So what happened? People got all the best stuff, got bored, and stopped playing even though there was the creation aspect of the game. No one explored generated worlds anymore because there was no point to doing it. For over a year, playership dropped dramatically. Recently, an update spiked playership because it added about 100 new items, but then it dropped again for the same reason.
Jagex can make things less rare, sure, but then you will be statistically less likely to play their game. And because you are still playing their game right now even though you are complaining, they don't see a reason to change it. People haven't quit because seismics are too expensive, they quit for other reasons.
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I love when people use the ol' "I'm not new" argument and show they learned absolutely nothing since when they started playing.
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It's a shame really that anything Unicorn/Horse/Pegasus related is instantly "MLP COPYHURBLEGURBLE!" these days.
While that is likely the primary cause of the lulz we're having now, there's also the niggling fact that there are a lot of people who like MLP on the staff there. So it kind of fuels the fire.
Also people are incredibly leery of a television show that was originally for children that attracts a large amount of perverted grown men. Unlike furries who hide their fetishes/obsession, they openly display them through merchandising and forum avatars and lingo amongst other ways. It's scary how conventions for that show are not safe for children. Even the ones who don't fetishize it are incredibly annoying, putting it into everything it doesn't need to be in. I know what some people are thinking. Yes rule 34 exists for everything. But at least I can take my kid to a pokemon convention. People don't fetishize the characters nearly as much or at least nearly as openly.
It isn't exactly grasping at straws to see that this update is an attempt to milk the franchise's popularity.
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What is this "quick inv" that people are saying is the best update?
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Shield sold for 1.5b apparently.
Less than I thought for being a first item. Will probably be down a whole lot very soon once people understand how everything works and learn patterns. Thanks!
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So whats the difficulty? Because if it has already been killed it can't be as hard as they showed in the video.
It was killed by an elite team of people with the best stats and best-in-slot gear in the game -- and they probably went to Runefest (so they had an advantage) as well. And Mod Chris was either on their team in his alt or was at least in the FC with them.
Far from a piece of cake.
It's fine, I'm better than Fumbra so it can't be too hard.
Before you shit yourself I know him
Yeah, that totally addresses the points I brought up, and means "it can't be too hard".
You know you should really try some breathing exercises. Being mad over everything is bad for your health.
Moving on, what did the shield sell for Ambler, or has that not been confirmed?
I am perfectly calm and not angry. You're the one here trying to troll and trying to get a rise out of me with your flippant comments. It won't work. You're obviously upset over the last thread, still.
Yoko please.
Again, Ambler has the shield been sold yet?
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So whats the difficulty? Because if it has already been killed it can't be as hard as they showed in the video.
It was killed by an elite team of people with the best stats and best-in-slot gear in the game -- and they probably went to Runefest (so they had an advantage) as well. And Mod Chris was either on their team in his alt or was at least in the FC with them.
Far from a piece of cake.
It's fine, I'm better than Fumbra so it can't be too hard.
Before you shit yourself I know him
Yeah, that totally addresses the points I brought up, and means "it can't be too hard".
You know you should really try some breathing exercises. Being mad over everything is bad for your health.
Moving on, what did the shield sell for Ambler, or has that not been confirmed?
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I was the only one on my team who'd gone to Runefest, but we all have a lot of PvM experience. It is very difficult, but the majority of deaths are just silly and seem unavoidable unless you can see 5 seconds into the future. And last I checked, I don't know Chris L ingame. :lol:
People love assuming just because you did something you must have insider info and everything is instaeasy because you have good armor.
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So whats the difficulty? Because if it has already been killed it can't be as hard as they showed in the video.
It was killed by an elite team of people with the best stats and best-in-slot gear in the game -- and they probably went to Runefest (so they had an advantage) as well. And Mod Chris was either on their team in his alt or was at least in the FC with them.
Far from a piece of cake.
It's fine, I'm better than Fumbra so it can't be too hard.
Before you shit yourself I know him
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So whats the difficulty? Because if it has already been killed it can't be as hard as they showed in the video.
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Here's a thought.. Why don't you just go kill Vorago for the weapons? If you don't have the stats/gear to do that, maybe you dont deserve the weapon in the first place?
If I'm getting ripped apart just for saying people should use the same energy used complaining over years to work towards a goal over that same time, you are going to give someone a heart attack for saying what you said.
EDIT: Oh it already happened
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You're right, you haven't explicitly used that word. You have only implied it at every step of the way. If only you people would 'stop complaining' and 'do something about it', you could have these items too, no matter how ridiculous they are to obtain!
Look, I can tell you are just taking this out on me. If you read anything I said before, I'm telling you I did exactly what a lot of people have been doing. But I realized none of that is actually doing anything to help. Just read what I said before. This isn't to attack anyone.
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Forget it, not even going to bother writing responses. People respond to one thing, the original message gets lost, people assume, I have to go explain myself, people ignore that. Actually, people are probably going to ignore that last sentence and not even look at what was posted merely 2 posts ago. You guys "won". No idea what you won, seeing that you still are in the same place you started.
No, actually, the only one who is in the same place as they started is you. And that's because you are too stubborn, arrogant, and shortsighted to acknowledge anything that other people have said to you and insist on just repeating the same tired old stuff to everyone, arrogantly strawmaning or caricaturing them ('if you don't want to spend the same amount of time as me, you're just lazy!'). You refuse to look past your own little world.
The rest of us have been making our points rather logically and straightforwardly, fleshing our ideas and responding to any replies that might actually come our way and defending our position.
Except I never said that. Ever. Tell me when I called anyone lazy. You can't because I never did. I just said people would rather yell about it than do something about it.
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Forget it, not even going to bother writing responses. People respond to one thing, the original message gets lost, people assume, I have to go explain myself, people ignore that. Actually, people are probably going to ignore that last sentence and not even look at what was posted merely 2 posts ago. You guys "won". No idea what you won, seeing that you still are in the same place you started.
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You proved my point-- Jagex designed it like that, to encourage the market to make this item into a status symbol.
If the drop rates were something like 2x or 3x the nex drop rates (or, roughly 1:10 instead of 1:40) then the wand would be significantly more difficult to merch and thus far less expensive. I'd also like to know why Vorago's non-energy drops are significantly worse than Nex's.
Status symbol. Well now I understand completely. People want this because of the intrinsic value it brings. That's all this argument is about but no one is saying it straight up. They want this item because it makes them feel good for some reason. I just wish people would shake this.
Your arguments are getting tirelessly more annoying as you go. The fact of the matter is there are currently 156,900 people with 90 Magic, the required level to use this wand. The fact that there is maybe 1,000 in supply right now is whats causing the issue. This issue arises from the fact that the drop rate is far far far to rare. In a game where people have been playing for 10+ years you can't limit top end gear, which isn't at the top end of the spectrum so much because the demand will far surpass supply for the foreseeable future. Even at a drop rate of 1:10 it will take a long time for the wand to come down into a respectable range. I deem respectable in the 100's of millions. Due to the fact that we shouldn't have people who are over the billion mark, or even in the nth number of max cash stacks. That is a fundamental flaw in the game that there hasn't been a reason for this gold to leave and it creates an ever expanding gap for new players. Who wants to start playing RuneScape and get to 90 magic in a couple month and realize they need to spend the next several years to be able to afford the gear that matches that level? No one, you want to kill a game, make it impossible to compete with current players.
Which is one of the reasons why we're seeing a steady trend of newer players leaving the game and only veterans sticking around.
Exactly my point, Its close minded thinking by people like Thus that think having these absurdly high prices are a good thing and don't understand the fundamental flaw that accompanies it, you kill the game and guess what, your fancy status symbol item isn't going to be worth squat when there are only 5 people playing to trade with.
See my original post. I never said it was a good thing. But what I did say before, pages ago, was that it is something that nearly every game has, and it is very difficult to change. And complaining about it won't solve anything. Everyone seems to think that if you are not with them, you are against them. If you don't think that complaining is the best way, you must think that it's good that the prices are stupid high.
And someone said we shouldn't have people over the 1 billion mark. Jagex used to ban people with max cash gotten from staking, no idea how that is fair. And how is that any pvmer's fault? The first people to buy wand(and any other item really) didn't even PvM or use it.
Whats going on is people are arguing in circles over this same issue that has been there for years. Instead of realizing this can't be changed by arguing and working towards something, no matter how slowly, they will name call and ignore that they are just wasting their own time. I said this in my original post, I used to complain about this. Hell, I was in a clan where people only complained about this and bankstanded and complained about this. They never tried anything to help themselves, only complained. I left that clan, came back to look and the same people were in the same position, complaining over the same things.
I look around TIF and it's the same exact problem every time. People complaining over the same problems that plague most games. Someone challenging this and getting yelled at by a group of people all high fiving and thumbs upping each other, amongst other things that they are probably doing to each other in a circle, all while assuming who knows what about the poster who thinks it's silly to complain and not at least try and take charge. Then years pass and they do the same thing again all throughout. Guess what? You complaing is getting you nowhere closer to anything you want.
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You proved my point-- Jagex designed it like that, to encourage the market to make this item into a status symbol.
If the drop rates were something like 2x or 3x the nex drop rates (or, roughly 1:10 instead of 1:40) then the wand would be significantly more difficult to merch and thus far less expensive. I'd also like to know why Vorago's non-energy drops are significantly worse than Nex's.
Status symbol. Well now I understand completely. People want this because of the intrinsic value it brings. That's all this argument is about but no one is saying it straight up. They want this item because it makes them feel good for some reason. I just wish people would shake this.
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You're saying that the market is so unpredictable that when you release super-rare very useful items, you can't tell that they are going to be very expensive? That's ridiculous. No, Jagex is in full control over both supply and usefulness, which is the major motivation for demand. There is no excusing the imbalance amongst t90 weapons, PvM versus skilling and others.
The drop rate of Wands and Orbs is not unlike the drop rate of Nex items. What people want is a massive influx of these items or some other way which I detailed if you keep reading. Also love how people criticize one point in 2 lines and ignore the rest, seems typical of these forums really.
And another thing that I don't get. If you are a fisher, why do you need a t90 wand? If you don't enjoy PvM, why do you need any weapons or armor? Hell, i don't even have one, not because I can't afford it but because I don't NEED it. In comes the answer about completing the game, wanting it for looks, wanting it because they want it, wanting it because they do slayer and apparently nothing lower is good enough, etc.
If you release a fish that requires 99 fishing to catch and make it take a while to catch them, but make it heal the most, it gives fishers a way to make lots of money. That is part of what we are asking for-- to close the gap between PvM and skilling for money-making.
And Wands/Orbs need to be at least twice as common drops as Nex items because it takes 4x as long to kill Vorago and requires 3x as many people to do it. Have you ever been to Vorago? I have. It takes a minimum of around 20-30 rocktails per kill and because several phases are time-based, it takes between 15-20 minutes per kill. Nex takes approx 3-4 minutes in a good trio.
And you wonder why they cost that much. It is precisely BECAUSE it takes that many resources and time and effort that wand costs that much. Even if you had a fish that took that long to catch, you can't make millions of of fishing in any foreseeable way without imbalancing something. For fishing to be equivalent, you would need a fish that would cost 100k. And since what we have is enough, the chance of someone buying it for that much is tough.
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You're saying that the market is so unpredictable that when you release super-rare very useful items, you can't tell that they are going to be very expensive? That's ridiculous. No, Jagex is in full control over both supply and usefulness, which is the major motivation for demand. There is no excusing the imbalance amongst t90 weapons, PvM versus skilling and others.
The drop rate of Wands and Orbs is not unlike the drop rate of Nex items. What people want is a massive influx of these items or some other way which I detailed if you keep reading. Also love how people criticize one point in 2 lines and ignore the rest, seems typical of these forums really.
And another thing that I don't get. If you are a fisher, why do you need a t90 wand? If you don't enjoy PvM, why do you need any weapons or armor? Hell, i don't even have one, not because I can't afford it but because I don't NEED it. In comes the answer about completing the game, wanting it for looks, wanting it because they want it, wanting it because they do slayer and apparently nothing lower is good enough, etc.
Going to state this again because people forget. I don't stake, merch, cheat, buy gold, beg, get stuff from friends, do underhanded things, attend drop parties, play long hours. I did not horde a rare from a long time ago, was not gifted one. I am not lucky. Finally, anything that I did not write or failed to mention that implies that I got what I have in some way, I did not. But what I did do was work at it, not in one way but in many ways, some I enjoyed and some I did not enjoy. And I don't sit around complaining about how things should or should not be, as that hasn't worked ever.
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See I used to be like you guys, complaining about prices of items. Then I took all the energy wasted in complaining and did something about it. Now bring on the people saying I cheated or merched or staked or bought gp or whatever. I did none of that. Also bring on the people saying I'm lucky or whatever.
Are prices insane? Yes. But unlike real life you can do something about it.
And this kinda of response is where people are as dense as a brick wall and do not get the point:
The point is not we are 'whining' or could just be doing it or people 'cheating,' its not even whether or not we are or are not making the money.
The point is we SHOULDN'T have to spend hours doing something we don't enjoy, we SHOULD be able to earn equally regardless of what avenue of the game we enjoy the most.
If we all just accept the unbalanced status quo and make do and say nothing how do we expect it to get fixed?
Except that doesn't work for any game. There will always have to be something in the way, whether or not you enjoy it, to get the best items in any game. Also, you forget that the point of this game is to get people playing as long as possible. Even without you getting the best items, and even though you are mad, you still are playing right? If you had all the best items, there is less of a chance of you playing. It's just how it works.
And it's funny how I didn't include in my original statement that I barely play and when I do it's not even a crazy amount, so everyone assumes I play runescape like it's a full time job. Meanwhile if I log in, many of the people I see complaining will be on at that given moment. Now how about that?
It took time yes, but I still got what I wanted. No one has patience, it's all about instant gratification.
And the brick walls gets thicker.
Your argument only has any point if we are asking for instant gratification and things to be easy.
That is N O T what is being asked for.
We are quite happy that you have to work for top end gear, thats fine. Thats great. Thats how the game should be.
The point we are addressing in Runescape is a game where you pick how you play. Do you quest? Skill? Pvm? Pvp? etc.
However money making to afford top end things is entirely railroaded into pvm. The point is this is wrong, we should have money making options of equal merit across all the avenues of play. Be you a fisher, a smither, a skill pure, a pvper or a pvmer.
All your arguments are based on the assumption we just want to be handed things with zero work this is just flat out not true. Its almost the exact opposite of our point. We WANT to work for it we just don't believe it is right that money making should be entirely railroaded in to 1 specific play style so that if you happen to utterly hate that or are no good at it you are at a distinct disadvantage regardless of how you enjoy and perform in other aspects of the game.
What you don't understand is that the PLAYERS determine the usefulness of skills and fish and etc. Some skills lead into PvM. Fishing is how you get Rocktails, herblore how you get herbs, farming for getting herbs, etc. Every skill plays some sort of tiny part in its own way, whether it be early money making or for quests to get facilitation of training another way, etc. The "problem" is that the reason why those items are so expensive is that the act of getting them is the ultimate end to all those means. You say things like being a fisher, a smither, etc. The harsh reality is a lot of PvMers are many of those. The people highest on the PvM totem poll are/were everything you said wrapped into one account, except maybe not pvper because jagex killed it.
Now, the Pvmers don't make the most money because Jagex just willed it that way. It happens because of supply and demand. Pvmers don't get gold, they get items. They sell those items or they get sold thru CS to someone willing to buy them. The reality is that as long as people are wiling to buy and sell for that price, it will be bought and sold for that price. Why don't fishers make the most money? Supply and demand. The supply is higher than the demand unless someone buys out fish.
You are asking for a utopia type of game. It simply does not exist. Because as long as a way to make an equivalent item/money is easier or more fun, people will ONLY do that. That created dead content elsewhere. Everything must take equally as long, everything must be equally as difficult. And in the end, everyone will complain because that's what is already happening. People spend literally days pvming, hours a day, and don't get anything and actually just break even this way depending on what they are doing. You want to take this system and spread it to EVERYTHING? People would still complain.
And I don't appreciate you calling me things. In all my arguments I have never singled out someone and called them anything. I have taken their opinions. Telling someone they are wrong is one thing, calling them something is another.
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eh I was wrong about torva, haven't been following prices but
You just agreed with me. You have no idea what the prices were, do you.
see virtus wand. see torva. Need I continue?
If you have paid any attention to how things have always been, by the time new stuff comes out the price of those items has greatly depreciated.
This is really a problem people don't seem to realize, too. If you have to pay max cash for some of this t90 stuff, what happens when t95 comes out? First of all, what kind of utter madness will you have to subject yourself to in order to obtain the item? I mean, Barrows looks like it has extremely high KO potential, and Vorago kills take 15-20 minutes each. Are we soon to have legitimate raid bosses, that actually take an hour or longer per kill?IMO you should have to pay ~ 200m for one set of tier 90 weapons. I think 200m is a reasonable amount of money to make for someone with level 90 stats. After all, level 90 is only really still mid to borderline high levelled content. The problem lies in that level 90 is currently the best gear in the game. Which means that even though level 90 gear shouldn't really be that prestigious or difficult to obtain, the fact that it is the best we have means it is.
Then, how much will it cost? Eventually, things will start being traded solely in terms of spirit shards because the values are so far over max cash that it's simply easier to just represent it all in spirit shards.
virtus wand: http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/GEMW/C#t=Nov_19_2012,Nov_05_2013#i=Virtus_wand
So that's the only exception, and not only has it been released recently but it has also decreased in price from what it was being traded for on release. My point still stands, they have decreased in price.
WARNING: Ambushers now live - Watch out!
in General Discussion
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I got ambushed immediately after accepting the option to fight vorago. I didn't like when random events could kill you, I don't like this much either.