Thus
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Posts posted by Thus
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I just don't understand why we should completely ignore the minority just because they're the minority.
Because if the minority got their way, we would still be playing like we were in 2003. You look forward to future possibilities, not the past at an era that looks good when things get tough. We have been doing this for years now, and for years people cried for old Runescape back, be it RSC or 2004 or 2006 or whatever.
Fun fact: The city of Volgograd, Russia, was voted to be renamed back to its former name: Stalingrad. Stalin, a man who killed more people than even Hitler over the course of decades. To compromise, it is now called Stalingrad for a few days every year. What do you think fueled people to vote for remembrance of an era that was far worse than today? Nostalgia. And how many of those people who petitioned were not even alive during that time?
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People keep mentioning that they don't want this to be successful, fearing that it may take away from development time for the current RS.
... Why?
Why would the wants of those who prefer EoC be more important than the wants of those who prefer the 2007 version of the game?
Because we're a majority, and they're not. Furthermore, the whole thing is just ill-conceived. It will not last, namely because most of the people here are in Disney-land where they've convinced themselves that if only we could have 2007 back, it'd just be so wonderful, that community and all that. But it won't. It's delusional thinking. When they're faced with how 2007 actually was, most of them will abandon it. Also, this project undermines all the progress that RS had made over the past 6 years.
Not saying that will definitely be the case, but let's go on the premise that the servers would succeed and would have about the same amount of players than current RS.
What would you guys say then?
Let's go on the premise that everyone working for Jagex dies tomorrow. What would you guys say to then? /sarcasm
Stop doing what ifs or whatever. We are basing these predictions that 2007scape won't work because we are using the current RS as a model. Also we played in 2007, we know it was bad back then too. Eventually, sooner or later, the 2007 servers will be the same bs community as today's servers. The optimism is great and all, but we already know the outcome to tell you it won't end well.
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At what time of day (GMT) did the poll open?
Around 13:00 I think.
For reference:
14k votes at 14:00
27k at 15:00
36k at 16:00
44k at 17:00
Seems the initial peak has already been and gone, though of course it will probably pick up a bit again in a few hours due to US voters, but at this rate it seems vote rates are gonna bottom up well under 24h mark
Hour 1 - 14k votes
Hour 2 - 13k votes
Hour 3 - 9k votes
Hour 4 - 8k votes
I really don't think we would hit 250k. How many people do you think will pay $15 extra just to play what they could play on a private server for free?
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Regardless, here's my two cents (or rather, two bucks.)
The economys dead right now just because EoC. Not botting, im pretty sure they can handle bots if they reaaalllly wanted to.
Uh, no, it isn't.
And then you proceed to admit that they aren't actually handling the bot problem properly (at least not well enough.)
GP drops and pickpocket etc don't bring in anything in terms of the GP in game, thats brought in buy stuff like high alch and selling to general stores.
What?
That makes no sense.
Jagex should take and erase a percentage of items put on the GE every day to remove items to reduce supply and at the same time I hope one of these new skills needs items from other skills AND costs 5 times what construction does. RS needs more money sinks if it has any hope of balancing out the economy.
They could take and erase a percentage of items put on the G.E. every day, but that would only be viable for items sold at current G.E. price if you ask me.
And making the new skill take 5 times as much money as Construction is only going to annoy the lower-level, poorer players and make high levels' lives easier.
You don't want 2007 Runescape, you want 2007 community.
And you can magically read their minds to know exactly what they want how?
I sincerely hope this goes through, the PvP community was beautiful and along with the hybrid ways and specs. Oh boy the joys i'll have!
As pointed out earlier, the community is *gone*
The only kind of PvP community you would probably see are the same immature ones that were pking in the few months before EoC and were crying on the forums.
All of you saying EOC fixed combat clearly haven't played drygorescape and haven't ever put a foot in the wilderness.
Saying that is just plain ignorant.
Cons:
- No specials, which render many weapons useless (like claws, godswords,etc.)
- "Balanced" weapon tiers, meaning every weapon of the same metal (like dragon 2h, dragon dagger, dragon scimitar) has roughly the same damage per second, rendering 95% of weapons useless since you should now just use the weapon that offers the best attack bonus in order to break through any high defence
- stupidly quick kills due to the ridiculously overpowered specials
- the "rock-paper-scissors" style gameplay where black d'hide has the same armour as dragon plate but is just a different "type"
- the fact that certain creatures that shouldn't use things like magic or ranged now do.....
- Claws can be turned into Chaotic claws, Godswords are the best non-degradable slashing weapons in the game (and affordable, no less)
- I agree on that one, and I'm going to add that the weapons with the lower damage are completely useless since abilities don't care about weapon speed, so they actually have a lower DPS.
- Because you weren't getting stupidly quick kills with AGS spec and Dragon claws spec, right? Right??
- No comment
- Why should they not?
Cut into pieces of conversation, and of course they will look illogical when you look at those specific parts. Comment after reading the entire chain, or don't comment at all. And don't bite off more than you can chew.
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Voting yes, As soon as the poll goes live im buying membership and voting and I know a good 10-12 other people that are going to be doing the same. Starting fresh is going to be the most exciting part. Reliving all the old f2p quests, Earning cash doing skills, spamming at a bank trying to get rid of all of your unwanted shit... Man, I know it's really nostalgia based and I'm not going to deny it probably will die after a year or two, but it will be fun again while it lasts. Even if we get 50k votes I'll be happy.
But you could do that now! And there won't even be a market for any of that for months anyway. Everyone will be self made for a while until there is money to actually spend for bulk and a flowing market. I don't feel any of those sentiments are worth the money spent on old servers.
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Read the rest of the thread, those questions have been answered over and over in depth. Also can you rephrase your main point? Right now it just seems you are arguing that EoC is a small thing that not many people use so it doesn't matter if it's gone. There are so many things wrong with that it is hard to start.
'Gone'. 'Nuff said.
I don't follow.
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I'm going to throw this point out again. The only thing this should boil down to is how badly did you like old combat. If you are a skiller, there is no reason to vote or even play 2007scape. If you chat with friends or quest, no reason to vote for or play 2007scape. The only thing that has been irreversibly screwed by EoC is the PvP community. PvM found a way, and it works.
We aren't going back to restricted trade days, we are going back to free trade 2007. You could do everything you did in 2007 today, except PvP. If you don't plan on PvP, your curiosity/nostalgia is swaying you. You will be voting for the same things you can do now, only with different graphics and less choices.
I would love to see how a restarted runescape would be, but I know it would only eventually grow back to being the same it is today. All it takes is time. I feel it would be greedy to want to allocate resources and attention on something that will be more of the same.
And to the people who did not play in 2007 and are voting for this, it sucked. Watch some videos, go to old forum archives. We complained just as much back then as we do now.
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Hey oldschool pkers, prepare yourself, because i'm coming for your ass!
I sincerely hope this goes through, the PvP community was beautiful and along with the hybrid ways and specs. Oh boy the joys i'll have!
Vote yes!
Probably the most logical voter base, the PvP community. The only reason I wouldn't mind if this passed is for you guys.
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To people saying 'ermahgurd Jagex are bending to the wishes of whiners from 2007 @@@@@!!!1one!!!':
This is what's commonly known as 'listening to the community'. Clearly, Jagex feels that a sizeable proportion of the population of RuneScape would like to see the creation of legacy servers, so what is the problem with doing what they want? Just because you won't play doesn't mean that nobody else should, that's like saying 'OMG Jagex how dare you bring out the Slayer skill, I'm a skiller, wow you just bend to the community idiots'. It just doesn't make any sense as an argument.
Even if significant resources were to be consumed in the upkeep of these servers, so what? Significant resources were put into the EoC which many people do not use (people that have quit like me) or skilling updates for PKers, PKing updates for skillers - the list goes on. Not everybody uses every update, and resources are poured into updates that not everybody or even a minority would use. A perfect example of this is player owned ports. The level requirements mean that it is definitely the minority that can use them, but significant time has been put into them. Who cares? Virtually nobody. So why is this different?
Answer these questions and you may have an argument.
Read the rest of the thread, those questions have been answered over and over in depth. Also can you rephrase your main point? Right now it just seems you are arguing that EoC is a small thing that not many people use so it doesn't matter if it's gone. There are so many things wrong with that it is hard to start.
Finally
To people saying 'ermahgurd Jagex are bending to the wishes of whiners from 2007 @@@@@!!!1one!!!':
Large overstatement in attempt to make people who you disagree with look stupid, even though mostly everyone here has said their point, for both sides, for the most part logically.
I ask you to read the thread before responding.
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It actually gets you 2 months free, one for your main and one for your burn account. I still see no point in doing this, because yet again, you give Jagex a false representation of the level of interest in the game, and end up instead, just giving them more money. If you aren't going to subscribe to 07scape on both accounts, it'd be in your best interests as a "community" to not inflate the votes. You are still paying the full month covercharge to get your "free month"
This is the reason why I'd like to see a creation date requirement for voting. Let it be 1 month even. That way you get less "Rigged" votes.
Ideally it would even go back to 07 or older because then you get people who actually know what the game was not all the whiners who just want EoC gone.
They have the right to 'whine' its exactly what you're doing.
On a side not, The date creation would benifit the 2007 more than the reffer a friend.
First off I'm not whining, I'm pointing out the flaws in this. Second of all how on earth would having a creation date of 07 or older help you?
Don't understand why people are urging others who won't play to vote anyway. All that would do is allocate money and manpower into something that far fewer people are playing than voted for. It will create a community split in the same way RS2 did, except now we have so many more players it will be more obvious.
Like I said before, the only people I see who really should vote for this are pkers. People saying they want to start from scratch? Make a new account. People who want to be 100% self made? Make a new account. People who want a challenge? Make a new account and don't use lodestones, if they die don't look grave, don't use rest. Don't put selfishness over the integrity of the main game.
Some people want to help build a new economy, but now that we know exactly what to do and how to do it, that economy will soon mimic the current one on a much, much smaller scale. I guarantee that gambling will still be around. Why? Horses and Waterfall Quest for seeds.
And finally, stop guilting people into voting by saying they aren't real Runescapers or whatever bullshit rhetoric you come up with. The real Runescapers are the ones who have stood members (or who have stood playing if you are strictly f2p) all these years and didn't quit when things got tough. We didn't quit in 2007, we didn't quit in 2012, we are here now.
If it was simple as make a new account. Im sure people would. People love the Era its well balenced compared to live RS. I for one will preffer making a account there than one on the live anyday.
How can you say 07 was more balanced compared to live. It was melee wins all. That is the furthest thing from balanced.
You want true balance in this game, remove weakness and make all styles equal in damage output. 100% balanced and 100% personal choice driven.
When you talk of balence. Its not just combat. Its the game as an overall. Whilest it is melee driven... Mage and range does have a fighting chance.
Also im pointing out the flaws in your points. Same thing. They point out flaws in EoC same thing.
Until drygores got released, Melee was was more balanced with range/mage in EoC than pre-eoc. Yes Melee is crazy strong now, but when level 90 range and mage weapons get released, we will see more balance than we ever saw pre-eoc. If you tell me range and mage are viable alternatives to melee in 2007, you never really played in 2007. Melee had all the good armor and performed well in any type such as dhides. Melee had most of the best specials. Jagex themselves said the game was melee centered.
But we are talking about the rest of the game, right? Please tell me how the rest of the game was more balanced.
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Would our characters have the stats they have now, or the stats they had in 2007? Back in 2007 I was 99 range, 1 defense, 70 attack, 99 strength for 75 combat I think. Now I'm 99 for all the combat skills. Not even sure which I prefer.
Everyone starts from scratch, level 3.
The amount people don't know is what scares me. They don't know there is no GWD back on August 10th 2007. They don't know they will have to start from scratch. They don't know many of they things they use regularly will be gone. They don't know there won't be a GE or summoning or that they will have to do everything 100% by themselves for a long time. They don't know what it means to be self sufficient. Unless Jagex makes this really obvious (they won't), there will be many votes made by the wrongly informed and there will be big disappointments if this passes on release day. You think people are mad at EoC? People will literally quit because they have to walk 20 minutes across the map.
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And what will you do in this era that is so different than what you can do now? You don't want 2007 Runescape, you want 2007 community. I'm not going to lie that things will be different, community will be closer, but as time goes on it will be the same thing all over again. Then what, reset again to 2005?
I'm afraid you're bringing logic into a discussion where the principal argument relies on sentiment (nostalgia). I'm not saying that to dissuade your reply, because you do have a point, and I thank you for raising it - I'm just saying many people are argumenting from two fundamentally different points of view here.
The scary part is that the illogical scream louder than the logical. They are the ones that get things changed and then complain when they get changed, asking them to be changed again. Happens over and over and over. The illogical scream that things are imbalanced in 2007, then Jagex finally changes in the right direction for combat in 2013, then they scream they want 2007 back because it was "balanced"
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Guys we don't need these nay sayers vote. Tomorrow the real Scapers will vote back for the original Runescape..
We're bringing back 01scape?
And who are these "real scapers"? The ones who whine and quit whenever there is a questionable update, or the ones that play through it?
The ones who would cancel membership after every update, quit the actual game and make private servers while complaining that things suck, and forcing Jagex to cater to them. Those are the real scapers :roll:
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It actually gets you 2 months free, one for your main and one for your burn account. I still see no point in doing this, because yet again, you give Jagex a false representation of the level of interest in the game, and end up instead, just giving them more money. If you aren't going to subscribe to 07scape on both accounts, it'd be in your best interests as a "community" to not inflate the votes. You are still paying the full month covercharge to get your "free month"
This is the reason why I'd like to see a creation date requirement for voting. Let it be 1 month even. That way you get less "Rigged" votes.
Ideally it would even go back to 07 or older because then you get people who actually know what the game was not all the whiners who just want EoC gone.
They have the right to 'whine' its exactly what you're doing.
On a side not, The date creation would benifit the 2007 more than the reffer a friend.
First off I'm not whining, I'm pointing out the flaws in this. Second of all how on earth would having a creation date of 07 or older help you?
It would actually stop the vote from passing. Reason why is because I know a lot of people are voting because they want to see how Runescape was in 2007, not knowing how bots pretty much ran the show worse than nowadays, and thinking that things were fair and balanced when nothing was ever that way.
They want 2007 back? They better know what they are voting for.
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Don't understand why people are urging others who won't play to vote anyway. All that would do is allocate money and manpower into something that far fewer people are playing than voted for. It will create a community split in the same way RS2 did, except now we have so many more players it will be more obvious.
Like I said before, the only people I see who really should vote for this are pkers. People saying they want to start from scratch? Make a new account. People who want to be 100% self made? Make a new account. People who want a challenge? Make a new account and don't use lodestones, if they die don't look grave, don't use rest. Don't put selfishness over the integrity of the main game.
Some people want to help build a new economy, but now that we know exactly what to do and how to do it, that economy will soon mimic the current one on a much, much smaller scale. I guarantee that gambling will still be around. Why? Horses and Waterfall Quest for seeds.
And finally, stop guilting people into voting by saying they aren't real Runescapers or whatever bullshit rhetoric you come up with. The real Runescapers are the ones who have stood members (or who have stood playing if you are strictly f2p) all these years and didn't quit when things got tough. We didn't quit in 2007, we didn't quit in 2012, we are here now.
If it was simple as make a new account. Im sure people would. People love the Era its well balenced compared to live RS. I for one will preffer making a account there than one on the live anyday.
And what will you do in this era that is so different than what you can do now? You don't want 2007 Runescape, you want 2007 community. I'm not going to lie that things will be different, community will be closer, but as time goes on it will be the same thing all over again. Then what, reset again to 2005?
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Don't understand why people are urging others who won't play to vote anyway. All that would do is allocate money and manpower into something that far fewer people are playing than voted for. It will create a community split in the same way RS2 did, except now we have so many more players it will be more obvious.
Like I said before, the only people I see who really should vote for this are pkers. People saying they want to start from scratch? Make a new account. People who want to be 100% self made? Make a new account. People who want a challenge? Make a new account and don't use lodestones, if they die don't look grave, don't use rest. Don't put selfishness over the integrity of the main game.
Some people want to help build a new economy, but now that we know exactly what to do and how to do it, that economy will soon mimic the current one on a much, much smaller scale. I guarantee that gambling will still be around. Why? Horses and Waterfall Quest for seeds.
And finally, stop guilting people into voting by saying they aren't real Runescapers or whatever bullshit rhetoric you come up with. You want to guilt someone? Use facts.
The real Runescapers are the ones who have stood members (or who have stood playing if you are strictly f2p) all these years and didn't quit when things got tough. We didn't quit in 2007, we didn't quit in 2012, we are here now. Voting yes or no has nothing to do with being "real" or not.
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The only people who should be voting yes are pkers. Everyone else who doesn't pk is just too nostalgic to realize that the game wasn't any better then than it is now. Perhaps the community is better, but that can't be brought back.
Also I'd rather have the resources allocated to stopping gambling, bots, and rwt. Making a 2007 server won't stop any of that. Money will be tight at first, but I guarantee on the first day a lvl 3 will do waterfall quest and start flower game.
If they could fix RWT they would have already. Besides they sell gold and 99s on the wheel, why do you dislike rwt? i thought that's what people that play eoc enjoy these days? Including the gambling.
If you would stop being facetious maybe we could have a better discussion. You know not everyone gambles or likes rwt or buys spins. And Jagex hasn't even attempted to stop it at the large scale, doesn't mean they can't. They can tell where money is going for the most part.
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The only people who should be voting yes are pkers. Everyone else who doesn't pk is just too nostalgic to realize that the game wasn't any better then than it is now. Perhaps the community is better, but that can't be brought back.
Also I'd rather have the resources allocated to stopping gambling, bots, and rwt. Making a 2007 server won't stop any of that. Money will be tight at first, but I guarantee on the first day a lvl 3 will do waterfall quest and start flower game. And rev up that old flax bot software.
Finally, the only way I would have seen this get more appeal is if you kept your current levels. Why skill in 2007scape when you could easily skill skill on your main? Most people will drop it after 2 days, if they don't already get annoyed by lack of run energy and having to do everything yourself.
Bottom line is, pking will be better, but that's about it. Everyone else is just angry at a new combat system and unwilling to adapt, or putting the blame on something that will not be rectified by an older image server.
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4 Oxheads, is that not excessive?
It's not. 4 is good endgame. Also have 4 JoD
4 oxheads is good because 4/7 voyages are multi stat. 4 jod is a waste because your likely to have a single stat unless you keep rerolling for only multi stats, in which case you'd likely want even more oxheads.
There are a lot of dual stat voyages in Pincers. For those, you have JoD
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4 Oxheads, is that not excessive?
It's not. 4 is good endgame. Also have 4 JoD
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Some combat related numbers changed so some players need more hours now, gf.
A player with 0 xp now needs 17435 hours and 23630m gp to get 200m xp in all skills.
I read this topic just to see statistics like this. Awesome and thank you
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It's one thing to accept money freely given (who doesn't like free money?), but begging on video for donations or even saying/implying you accept them is pathetic. But is it efficient? Depends on how low of a person you are.
Ok, so you admit that accepting donations it is logical and efficient, you just don't like it. Glad we cleared that up.
I never recall saying it wasn't then changing my mind. And yes I don't like it.
Also, check your inbox.
Real mature. I really don't care if you ignore me. Go ahead, please.
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Is buying spins not an efficient training method?
I don't really like the whole concept of donations, because that is contingent on the promise that the person who received them will actually go all the way. That almost caused an upset when Suomi stopped playing for a bit. It also falls into begging, which I don't like. Finally, it's basically large amounts of free money for doing something that everyone already does on their own, only on a much larger scale. I feel it cheapens the achievement, since it's already paid for you.
It's one thing to accept money freely given (who doesn't like free money?), but begging on video for donations or even saying/implying you accept them is pathetic. But is it efficient? Depends on how low of a person you are.
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People would still complain even if it was 2006 runescape. Msb spec too overpowered, Maul spec too overpowered, whip too overpowered, barrows too expensive, graphics too shitty, etc.
Since day 1, people have always been complaining about something trivial.
People are just too damn nostalgic. Now people are now asking Jagex to bring back restricted trade. Seriously? The update that people literally said and agreed was the worst ever? No one complaining ever remembers the bad when looking at the past. I used to have pity for them, but now I have a hard time understanding how blind, or perhaps stupid, they are.
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2007 - Old School RuneScape... You Vote! - [It's Here!]
in Old School RuneScape
Posted
It would be great if it was giving a little bit. But It isn't. Time and money will be allocated to these servers. Jagex will have to listen to the needs of the people on these servers, instead of simply focusing on the needs of the current game. The community itself will be split like it was with the RSC/RS2 split nearly a decade ago, but I fear on a larger scale. This affects us on the long term.
People are not ready for this endeavor of creating a new server. People will be up to it, but so many will ragequit or see it as pointless to have to do everything on their own, self sufficient, without any of the help of newer updates. Finally, 2007 servers will eventually grow to be just like they were back in 2007, with a complaining community and people wishing for more change. All through this thread, people were talking about being the first to get a whip or 91 rc or whatever. They don't know what it means for that to be accomplished from scratch, with no help. And good luck selling your double nats or whip.
I don't know how many times these points have been brought up in thread, but please god I wish some people would read them.