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darkforaster

Fate: Fact or False?

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~if it's in the wrong place, move it. If it shouldn't be here. ignore it.~

 

 

 

Hello.

 

 

 

I'm here to ask YOU whether you believe in destiny/fate or not. I want full answers, that means no:

 

 

 

I do NOT believe in destiny

 

 

 

Now, i have recently been watching final destination films. =D> (great films they were). And had the idea of death being a force in fd 3. but i don't believe that. i agree with ian about it being a biological ending to life.

 

 

 

But I much prefer the destiny theory. the idea, that a major force is guiding our every movements. shaping our future. examining the past. that we were born to do what the force wanted us to do. whether it was to die an early grave, or cure the common cold.

 

 

 

But this being is far too powerful to comprehend. as it's power grows far beyond our imagination. there's no defying him. he knows what you're going to do, BEFORE you do it.

 

 

 

So according to the destiny idea, we're all just puppets under it's eyes. forcing our every movement. unable to seek our own path.

 

 

 

But there are those who disagree; as with all ideas. who believe we have free will to do what we like, and some god is whom created us. but I ask you this: why then were WE born? some other child, with different hopes and dreams, could have showed up instead of us. tehre must be a reason why we were chosen. and that is simple: destiny.

 

 

 

Discuss.

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Some ppl think destiny doesn't exist, theyre the master of their life.

 

Some ppl believe it's all written in advance by some godly power.

 

 

 

Well me, I think our actions forge our destiny. Thus, we still follow a destiny, but a destiny made by ourselves. Haha, right in the middle, and it makes a lot more sense than both theories ::'


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Destiny in a theic sense? No. But everything we do is a consquence of circumstance, so in a way one has little choice in a matter and can be very predictable.


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I'd like to think that there's something we are all destined to do in life but I'd hardly see a needle addiction at 16 and prostitution at 17 a worthy destiny or plan for anyone (and no, this isn't the story of my life, it's a hypothetical which has probably happened many times over in one form or another).

 

 

 

It's not the kind of thing you can directly test or label as fact so I'm not going to assume it's the truth, yet I'm not going to just reject it forever because it isn't provable. I'd like to think that I will be doing a certain something that I dream of doing one day... It's a bit of a reassurance but I can't let it be some sort of safety web. I have to work hard to get where I want to be and everyone should remember that for thier own dreams in life.

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No, although i do think our subconcious affects a hell of a lot of the things we do. So if we take fate as an unconcious guiding force then maybe.


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With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed.

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To me, it's simple. Sometimes we have control over our own future, and sometimes we don't ie. nature, others. And the future is controlled in the present (or past at the time it happens). Everything that happens in the future can be traced to the immediate past (even if that past is a few minutes, or even seconds ago, it's still the past).

 

 

 

The future is what has not happened. What happens an hour from now to me can only be guessed about, but no one, or no thing knows what it is.

 

 

 

So I'm anti-Nostradamus.

 

 

 

We live in the present. And every moment the present becomes the past, and is gone forever, with only memories left to remember it. The future is what hasn't happened yet, and is effected by the present.


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I think that we cannot predict with any abolsute certainty about what will really happen in the next five minutes, so the idea that our lives are already planned out ahead of us it to me, absurd.


"Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo"

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Nostradamus, Vik.


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With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed.

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I do not believe in Destiny Why you ask

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone can change their "destiny as it were"

 

 

 

 

 

It all about CHOICE.....

 

 

 

 

 

I could right this moment choose to be a tramp or a gypsy for that matter......

 

 

 

 

 

I could also just get a knife and kill myself

 

 

 

 

 

I can always keep changing my mind...so how can their be a destiny as it were

 

 

 

 

 

No such thing ....

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Kind of a cool, yet depressing thought:

 

 

 

You could die at any moment, at any place, and almost anyway. Five minutes from now you could be dead. And you can die from practically everything you see around you in a plethora of ways.


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Kind of a cool, yet depressing thought:

 

 

 

You could die at any moment, at any place, and almost anyway. Five minutes from now you could be dead. And you can die from practically everything you see around you in a plethora of ways.

 

 

 

 

 

This is true......Just like final destination lol.....anyone see nthe second one when the boy gets killed becuase of the pigeons....He gets crushed by the glass....I know this is sick..but i was like LOL at that part

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If everything is preplanned out what's the point? It'd be like a roller coaster ride. We get on the thing and know what'll happen. Sure it was a fun ride, but I think in life, the point is for us to choose where the track goes and ends, not some engineer.

 

(I'm fully aware that metaphor I just came up can just as easily be used against me)

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I don't believe fate exists, mostly because who or what would decide what will happen in the future?

 

 

 

I believe that some things are almost part of destiny, but not fate.

 

 

 

To further explain this, if you work towards something and try your hardest, you may get it, but you may not.

 

 

 

If you halfway work to something and get it, it's luck, but if you don't people fell like it wasn't fate that they got it.

 

 

 

So if you 'know' something s going to happen, why bother trying since you'll get there, fate says so, right?

 

 

 

I dunno, I just feel like one has a certain amount of control over one's destiny, but they can't affect everything.


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Not to start a Biblical debate, but man's punishment for eating from the Tree of Knowledge was self-awareness and thus God gave Man free will. We are in charge of our actions.


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My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley

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I think that we cannot predict with any abolsute certainty about what will really happen in the next five minutes, so the idea that our lives are already planned out ahead of us it to me, absurd.

 

 

 

Is it not consistent for you, a materialist, to completely deny free will? If you are a materialist, would you not believe that our thoughts and actions are completely predetermined by other material entities?

 

 

 

I know the Heisenburg uncertainty principle would make our actions impossible to predict, but it doesn't change the fact that we have no control over them?


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Of course fate exists. No one who has any contact with us or our universe knows what our, or anyone's, fate is, but it exists.

 

 

 

If we knew what was fated, it would no longer be fate, as we would then react in a different way then if we didn't know our fate, and thus change our fate.


[if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or

by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.]

 

Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series.

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Of course fate exists. No one who has any contact with us or our universe knows what our, or anyone's, fate is, but it exists.

 

 

 

If we knew what was fated, it would no longer be fate, as we would then react in a different way then if we didn't know our fate, and thus change our fate.

 

 

 

But who says fate is linear like that?

 

 

 

What if fate is nothing but a beginning and an ending? Everything else we do in the middle is up to us, but the circumstances you were born into and the circumstances you will die in are set.

 

 

 

If you were shown the circumstances for your death, you cant make it not happen. there is an infinite number of ways that any circumstance can take place no matter the changing of actions.


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oo yay i love these ideas. ok simple answer:

 

 

do i believe in destiny

 

 

 

NO

 

 

 

do i believe in free will?

 

 

 

NO

 

 

 

anyone seen the matrix (the last one) where neo asks about the machines that run zion (no idea how to spell it), he says that he has control over them, he can turn them off if he wants. This is flase, he can not turn the machines off because if he does he will die, control is an iliusion to make you think you have free will.

 

 

 

You chose the job you do now, correct? False, your parents did, society did, everyone else did, you chose your job for a reason, the reason you chose that job can be eridacted, whether you chose your job for money, or helping people out, the person who is in charge of that can reduce your wage or decide to change the companys value. Then again if your the boss, how much control do you have if no one else agrees with you?

 

 

 

 

 

Summary: control does not exist, free will does not exist, you are only given the choice because someone allows you to have it, they can take that right, hence you think you have the free will to do what you want just as long as you do exactly what i say.

 

 

 

so whats destiny? the word for a long chain of choises is what it is, your destiny was to pick up that pen, no it wasn't is was the chemical reactions in your brain that did it, if i take your brain away then what. Basically destiny is the word for the choices you are about to make, it does not matter about the outcome, that can varry, but at the end of all your choices you can say destiny bought you there, or you can say, no 50 choices bought me here, it means the same thing,

 

 

 

my opinion is that destiny is an idiots way to try to understand the so called choices he made, in fact your destiny belongs in the nads of the president, the people who put him there, destiny is the combined community you live in.

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But who says fate is linear like that?

 

 

 

What if fate is nothing but a beginning and an ending? Everything else we do in the middle is up to us, but the circumstances you were born into and the circumstances you will die in are set.

 

From our perspective, it is completely up to us. But through the continued series of cause-and-effect from the "beginning to the end" (whatever they are) one of omniscient nature could easily predict anything that will happen at any given moment, not just the beginning and ending.

 

 

 

If you were shown the circumstances for your death, you cant make it not happen. there is an infinite number of ways that any circumstance can take place no matter the changing of actions.

 

You could kill yourself right on the spot. Bam, "fate"'s wrong.

 

 

 

If you were shown the circumstances for your death, there are a myriad of ways that you could avoid it...


[if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or

by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.]

 

Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series.

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If you were shown the circumstances for your death, you cant make it not happen. there is an infinite number of ways that any circumstance can take place no matter the changing of actions.

 

You could kill yourself right on the spot. Bam, "fate"'s wrong.

 

 

 

If you were shown the circumstances for your death, there are a myriad of ways that you could avoid it...

no because hes saying death is your fate, if you kill yourself now its still you fate, he didnt say the way you die is fate, its inevitable you will die is basically what hes sayin fate is, we just chose how to die, which backs up my point about free will, we are going to die, we chose how but we will die, if i had free will i would be able to chose not to die.

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If you were shown the circumstances for your death, you cant make it not happen. there is an infinite number of ways that any circumstance can take place no matter the changing of actions.

 

You could kill yourself right on the spot. Bam, "fate"'s wrong.

 

 

 

If you were shown the circumstances for your death, there are a myriad of ways that you could avoid it...

no because hes saying death is your fate, if you kill yourself now its still you fate, he didnt say the way you die is fate, its inevitable you will die is basically what hes sayin fate is, we just chose how to die,

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Lionheart, but I'm pretty sure that's not what he was saying hobbit.

 

 

 

which backs up my point about free will, we are going to die, we chose how but we will die, if i had free will i would be able to chose not to die.

 

Ah yes, I can't snap this planet in half with my bare hands, so I must not have free will.

 

 

 

You're assuming that because you can't choose to give yourself any kind of power, such as immortality, you don't have free will? This path of logic started... where?


[if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or

by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.]

 

Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series.

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I think of fate/destiny as a timeline. Everything you're going to do is going to happen on a timeline. You see ('live') in one timeline, yet there are more than one timeline, probably infinite.

 

 

 

Say you flip a coin and it landed on heads. Whoopie-do, I'm still on my own timeline. Now if that coin landed tails (which it did not in your view) that would be a different timeline (which you can't see) of your own (which you see). Obiously a coin-flip is not going to change the world, so the events of these two timelines are exactly the same, execpt the coin lands on heads for one timeline, and tails on another. Apply that to every possible action and you'll get too many timelines to count. Same thing with choices. You choose to go to College B instead of College A. In another timeline you might see yourself in College A instead of B. Yet in another you could see yourself working in a McDonalds. And yet even another timeline, McDonalds isn't the leading fast food resutrant, but Wendys is. Hell, in another timeline your weren't even born due that your grandfather died as a child. The possiblities are limitless.


"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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Yes, I believe in destiny, in the form of a future you create for yourself by your own decisions. Your choices, your preferences, your do's and dont's are all decided by you, and the way you use them will create your own future, you're own destiny.

 

That is your chance in life. Seize the day.

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If you were shown the circumstances for your death, you cant make it not happen. there is an infinite number of ways that any circumstance can take place no matter the changing of actions.

 

You could kill yourself right on the spot. Bam, "fate"'s wrong.

 

 

 

If you were shown the circumstances for your death, there are a myriad of ways that you could avoid it...

no because hes saying death is your fate, if you kill yourself now its still you fate, he didnt say the way you die is fate, its inevitable you will die is basically what hes sayin fate is, we just chose how to die,

 

Correct me if I'm wrong Lionheart, but I'm pretty sure that's not what he was saying hobbit.

 

 

 

which backs up my point about free will, we are going to die, we chose how but we will die, if i had free will i would be able to chose not to die.

 

Ah yes, I can't snap this planet in half with my bare hands, so I must not have free will.

 

 

 

You're assuming that because you can't choose to give yourself any kind of power, such as immortality, you don't have free will? This path of logic started... where?

 

 

 

Yes that basically what im saying, that your death is inevitable. But, along the lines of what you thought i said, how would you not know that killing yourself is your fated death?

 

 

 

Also, you cant snap the planet in half with your bare hands not because of no free will, but because of no physical means. The physical realm is different then our mind. What we want to do is limited by the physical realm. In reverse, in our mind we can do what we want because there is no physical barriers. You cant apply those rules of your mind the the physical realm.

 

 

 

Free choice is the choices you make within the physical realm.


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Yes that basically what im saying, that your death is inevitable. But, along the lines of what you thought i said, how would you not know that killing yourself is your fated death?

 

Well, death is pretty much inevitable, so I don't really see how that goes along with fate. So fate is the fact that we have a beginning and end? That's more like common sense than fate :| .

 

 

 

You used an example of being able to see how you died, right? Say, you learn that you're destined to die fighting in some war in the future? If you kill yourself right on the spot, that destiny that you're told is wrong. I'm saying that that destiny can't be correct (or maybe it was your destiny, until you knew about it and thus reacted to it), since it comes to be known in the physical world- if the future is known, it can be changed.

 

 

 

We can never know what our fate is for it to be our true fate.

 

 

 

Also, you cant snap the planet in half with your bare hands not because of no free will, but because of no physical means. The physical realm is different then our mind. What we want to do is limited by the physical realm. In reverse, in our mind we can do what we want because there is no physical barriers. You cant apply those rules of your mind the the physical realm.

 

 

 

Free choice is the choices you make within the physical realm.

 

Which is why I used it as an example to counter hobbit's ludicrous point that because we don't have immortality we can't have free will. It was sarcasm.


[if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or

by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.]

 

Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series.

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