Awww? Poor gold farmer? [please lock]

[i_trollz_u]

Well. It's pretty damn simple. The guy is helping someone breaking a rule.

 

Say there's a country where you can grow marijuana for your own use, but not sell it. I wonder if there's a country like that. Anyways. If someone grows weed, gives it to someone and knows that they'll sell it, they're a partner in a crime and therefore, should be exposed in the street for people to throw cheesecake at. Or you could throw them in prison O:)

 

 

 

There still isn't a rule for that. The closest thing to that would be the rule that said " No encourageing others to break rules" and it still doesn't fit under that. So unless Jagex makes a rule saying "no lvl 3s are allowed to make money", than Jagex still cannot accuse them of breaking any rules. Of course Jagex still has the power to ban them without any reason, however from a ceartain angle it would make Jagex look extremely bad.

[Ss_J9_Goten]

[hide=Clickedy Quotes]

Jagex can't do anything about the gold farmers. The gold farmers aren't even against the rules. Macros are against the rules however gold farmers ,although they are where real world trading companies get the runescape cash from, are still controlled by real people so jagex cannot ban gold farmers.

 

 

 

Actually, JagEx can do whatever the hell they want, its their game. Maybe your suggesting they shouldn't, but the EULA (End User License Agreement) you signed to play the game says that they can if they feel like it. See, if you read the EULA you find out your just renting the account per see. JagEx actually owns your account and everything in it, so they can tell you your not allowed to sell it to somebody else, just like you cant sell a car with a lease on it without the bank's/dealers permission.

 

 

 

The reason for this is simple. In the real world, if you give/sell someone something there are no take backs. It would be theft to take a gold farmers account if they owned it, but JagEx owns it and has dictated the terms under which they may use it. But if you rent it to them (which is what JagEx is doing), you can take it back whenever the conditions of the license are violated. If they conditions are not violated you cannot take it back, but as soon as they are you can legally take it.

 

 

 

Of course they can ban them legally without any reason, however they wouldn't be able to accuse them of breaking any rules making jagex seem a little hypocritical since jagex banned a player when technically they were never breaking any rules (Jagex said they would always have proof of a rule broken for banning an account). And I don't like or dislike goldfarmers because not all of them work for real world item trading companies

 

 

 

Actually, Goldfarmers are breaking the rules; Real World Trading and (possibly) interaction between accounts. They are collecting money to sell, correct? And don't Jagex specifically state in their rules that it is illegal to trade RuneScape goods for real world goods? Also, if they are gathering the GP for themselves (not to sell) then they would be giving the money to their main, which would be interaction between their accounts. So there is no hypocrisy whatsoever. And they have reason to accuse them.

 

 

 

Here are the rules, taken from the website:

 

 

 

Can I give items to another player from one of my accounts, so that they can then give the items to another character that I play?

 

 

 

 

 

No, this goes against the rule. You may not transfer items between your accounts in any way.

 

 

 

RuneScape items must only be exchanged for other items/services within the game.

 

 

 

Exchanging RuneScape items for items or other benefits in other online games, real-life money or other real-life benefits is not allowed.

 

 

 

The gold farmers can just collect money and give it to someone else in the company to sell to the customer. The specific gold farming account is not real world item trading and is interacting with someone elses account;thus not breaking any rules. And what about real players that do nothing but make money and does not break any rules?

[/hide]

 

 

 

Well that depends; are they getting paid for it? I assume that you're talking about the gold farmers who get paid to collect the RuneScape gp. If they are indeed the ones you are talking about, then they are breaking the rules. They are receiving real world money for the gp they collect, thus breaking rule 12.

[Pink_Demon]

I feel bad for them and all, but they are breaking Jagex's rules and more importantly, the law! When you break laws and rules, my sympathy goes way down. No need for that.

 

 

 

Breaking the rules - no macroing

 

 

 

Breaking the law - Runescape gold belongs to Jagex and they are selling it, despite it lawfully belonging to Jagex. Against the law my friends.

[Triforceelf]

Well. It's pretty damn simple. The guy is helping someone breaking a rule.

 

Say there's a country where you can grow marijuana for your own use, but not sell it. I wonder if there's a country like that. Anyways. If someone grows weed, gives it to someone and knows that they'll sell it, they're a partner in a crime and therefore, should be exposed in the street for people to throw cheesecake at. Or you could throw them in prison O:)

 

 

 

This country is known as "Alaska" where you can legally have small amounts of marijuana, but not sell it.

[Omar]

Oh, really. I never knew.

[archangel]

No, actually macroing for a living in China pays about as well, and has the same or better working conditions as any other job. Jagex was exaggerating when they said "sweatshops".

 

 

 

Yes, gold farming in China pays much better than other jobs. However, it does NOT have the same working conditions as other jobs.

[RichieMcD]

Just from what ive seen on this thread i want to clear up some points

 

 

 

Macroing is using a computer program which clicks on a certain color and interacts with E.G. clicking on a green dragon and killing it, then collecting the hides and bones. This breaks rule 7 only or if they then sell for real life money then they also break rule 13

 

 

 

A kid or adult spending hours a day on a computer in china killing a green dragon or picking and spinning flax over and over again IS NOT MACROING. They are not using a computer program to do it therefore they are not breaking rule 7, if they sell for real life money like alot of those ''goldfarmers'' do then they are only breaking rule 13.

 

 

 

Macroing and goldfarming sometimes combine but most times they are two completly different things

 

 

 

Kranked1

[Omar]

I wrote "macroer" instead of goldfarmer by accident in the title, that's why it must have looked somewhat messed up.

[Unoalexi]

I loathe gold farmers, and I could really careless if a Chinese family starves to death of Jagex finally finds a fool-proof method to eliminate gold farming. Note, this doesn't mean I'm unsympathetic to poor families in Asia in general, but Chinese gold farmers and poor Asians are two different things in my mind. Why? People seem to forget that Real-World Item trading IS AGAINST THE RULES! NO EXCEPTION WHATSOEVER!!

 

 

 

No matter if your the rich prep or the wrist-slitting Emo, or a starving Asian family for that matter, these rules have no exceptions, period! Selling Rs Money is basically property theft, and for the sake of refusing to repeat myself, I will quote what I have said in a different thread.

 

 

 

Rs cheating(was locked)

 

archangel wrote:

 

How can you say that gold farmers are bad people?Because they're "ruining" a game you'll only play for a couple years then go off into life? None of you understand what its like to go to bed hungary everynight and sleep with five other people in the same room. Is that all you care about? The economy of some meaningless game that you do for fun from time to time?Is your pleasure worth more than the lives of straving children in high proverty areas?I doubt that most of you understand what it is like to live in the "ghetto" or even understand the hardship of those families.Are you blind to the truth? Not everyone has a refrigator to go to when their hungary,not everyone has clean water to drink,not everyone as a free education,not everyone lives in the world that we inhabit. You talk like what the nazi's thought of Jewish people? They ruined their economy, they ruined their lives, it was their fault they lost WW2. Do any of you care for anyone else except yourself?

 

 

 

honestly, bots aren't in every single world on rs. Yes, they are hurting the economy of runescape. Does that even matter? Runescape is a GAME, your suppose to have fun it, not whine about it as if it were your stocks in Wallstreet. They affect other players? Hah, i doubt even 2/5 of everyone on tip.it fish,wc, or mine for all of your money. Give those guys a break, they have worked harder than any of you will in your entire life.

 

 

 

 

 

Help the Asians give to unicef.

 

 

 

lol, btw I DO fish for my money. (65 fish ftw?)

 

Don't talk about things you don't understand, you threw in the part about the (historical political party) just to give fire to your posts. What are you trying to say? All people who hate macros are (historical political party)?! Macroers ruin the economy of a game I care about, therefore I have a right to loathe them. Buying gold only encourages the actions and working conditions of the horrible sweatshops.

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

"Most of the gold farmers I talked to love the job. In the gold farms, you can see they are enthusiastic about their job and they got a sense of achievement from it, which is rare in any other sweatshops. Most of the gold farmers I met do not have better alternatives. All the gold farmers I met are male, usually in their early 20s. They were either unemployed or had worse job before they found this job. Many of them were already game fans before they became "professional". In some sense, they are making a living off their hobby, which is an unachievable dream for many people. What's more, the game world can be a space of empowerment and compensation for them. In contrast to their impoverished real lives, their virtual lives give them access to power, status and wealth which they can hardly imagine in real life. This is a reason why they are so addicted to their job. This is a paradox that the term "sweatshop" cannot convey: in the gold farms exploitation is entangled with empowerment and productivity is entangled with pleasure."

 

 

 

this was quoted from a researcher who actaully went to asian countries to study gold farming. As you can see they play the game how it was meant to be played. They play it to escape the harsh realities of their lifes, and to have a sense of achievement that they cannont get nowhere else.

 

 

 

The rest of the article is here- https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/dtcook/www/CC ... -2/jin.htm

 

 

 

I agree with alot of it, but not all of it.

 

 

 

Yah, and I'm so sure that pimps enjoy pimping [garden tools], and bank robbers love robbing banks, but thats not the point because its-

 

 

 

STILL AGAINST THE LAW!!!!!!

 

 

 

They aren't playing the game the way it was meant to be played. If it was meant to be played like that, there would be no law preventing it. It's Jagex's game, not the little Asian gold farmers (this doesn't mean in not sympathetic to poverty stricken Asian families), Jagex spends money on it, Jagex spent the time and effort to make and maintain it, therefore abusing it is like destroying someone else's property.

 

 

 

Also

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a good video to learn the truth of gold farmers. For all of you whose perceptions are based on the economy of a GAME, you should watch this and read the article that I have posted. But for those of you who are headstrong about your hatred toward gold farmers, I accpet that. I know that if everyone thought I was right, a game that I love to play would be destroyed. Both sides must exist to create balance. Opinions are opinions, not people. Agree of disagree, this is a debate not a war. Respect my opinions and thoughts and I shall respect yours.

 

 

 

I feel that I should remind players that Runescape is a game. It's not even a high-graphic game, but I do love and play it like you. Dieing and losing your items does not mean you will die in real life. Runescape is suppose to be played to relax and have a good time on a rainy day, not every single hour of every waking moment. I myself would not like to work in a gold farming sweatshop, but these people must for it is their only option besides going "gangsta", or getting killed. Those of you who laugh and say they should die, please grow up. I post,read, and go to tip.it because I feel it has a strong moral support and maturity.

 

 

 

What part of its

 

 

 

STILL AGAINST THE FLIPPING RULES!!!!!

 

 

 

don't you understand! I am sympathetic to the minds and needs of others, but think about poor Jagex. Yes, they are not a poverty stricken Asian family, but they're still a group of real people working hard on a game they spent many many days(years) of time, money, and effort on. It's their property, get over it.

 

 

 

Plus if we all stop obeying rules, were would we be? Let me give you an example-

 

 

 

Lets say you have 1000$ in your bank account. Thats your property, right? Then a person comes along and takes 10$ a week without your permission out of this account. You finally catch them in the act after days of trying to find the source of this problem. Your pretty pissed at them, but they just say "Hey, this money is for all the starving children in Africa. It's for the greater good dude, so don't worry." How would you feel then?

 

 

 

That should give you a idea about my feelings -.-

[Ss_J9_Goten]

While it may be against the law, the law does take into consideration the circumstances surrounding the crime - say an upper class man shoplifted only because of the thrill he got from doing it, and a poor man shoplifted to feed his starving family - whilst both broke the law, it is likely that the poor man would receive a more lenient punishment than the upper class man.

 

 

 

Crimes don't always fit into clear cut laws, there have to be exceptions in the pursuit of justice, so don't think too harshly of the gold farmers.

[Omar]

 

Macroers ruin the economy of a game I care about, therefore I have a right to loathe them. Buying gold only encourages the actions and working conditions of the horrible sweatshops.

 

 

 

Then I think the gold farmers have a right to loathe you, because you care for a game, something virtual and not really so important more than for a life. If I could give my GP to a goldfarmer to eat today and tomorrow, I'd do it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yah, and I'm so sure that pimps enjoy pimping [garden tools], and bank robbers love robbing banks, but thats not the point because its-

 

 

 

STILL AGAINST THE LAW!!!!!!

 

 

 

They aren't playing the game the way it was meant to be played. If it was meant to be played like that, there would be no law preventing it. It's Jagex's game, not the little Asian gold farmers (this doesn't mean in not sympathetic to poverty stricken Asian families), Jagex spends money on it, Jagex spent the time and effort to make and maintain it, therefore abusing it is like destroying someone else's property.

 

What the author meant was that the farmers enjoyed it. Because, y'know, it wouldn't really work if the farmers hated the game. Although Jagex spends time and effort making this game, does it not occur to you that they are currently making money, although there's a ton of gold farmers out there?

 

The bold point is a paradox.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets say you have 1000$ in your bank account. Thats your property, right? Then a person comes along and takes 10$ a week without your permission out of this account. You finally catch them in the act after days of trying to find the source of this problem. Your pretty pissed at them, but they just say "Hey, this money is for all the starving children in Africa. It's for the greater good dude, so don't worry." How would you feel then?

 

 

 

But the situation above isn't the exact same. This would be the on, I think:

 

Let's say you have 1000$ in your bank account. That's your property, right? Say you make 15$ of profit everyday, but someone steals 10$ off you everyday and says it's for starving kids in Africa. How would you feel?

[reaper88888]

For goldfarmers, the choice is basically either play a stupid game 18 hours a day, or work in a factory making plastic toys 18 hours a day... Which would you choose? Yeah, I feel sorry for them, but they help keep prices low.

[Unoalexi]

 

Macroers ruin the economy of a game I care about, therefore I have a right to loathe them. Buying gold only encourages the actions and working conditions of the horrible sweatshops.

 

 

 

Then I think the gold farmers have a right to loathe you, because you care for a game, something virtual and not really so important more than for a life. If I could give my GP to a goldfarmer to eat today and tomorrow, I'd do it.

 

 

 

No, I do not care about a virtual game more than a human life. I don't know how you drew that conclusion from my quote.. Maybe you should read the bolded sentence a little more carefully..

 

 

 

As for the bit about giving your GP, good for you. :roll: Personally, I'd rather give money to the Red Cross or Unicef than buy stolen property. Plus, I was refering to buying GP, so this sentence doesn't apply.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yah, and I'm so sure that pimps enjoy pimping [garden tools], and bank robbers love robbing banks, but thats not the point because its-

 

 

 

STILL AGAINST THE LAW!!!!!!

 

 

 

They aren't playing the game the way it was meant to be played. If it was meant to be played like that, there would be no law preventing it. It's Jagex's game, not the little Asian gold farmers (this doesn't mean in not sympathetic to poverty stricken Asian families), Jagex spends money on it, Jagex spent the time and effort to make and maintain it, therefore abusing it is like destroying someone else's property.

 

What the author meant was that the farmers enjoyed it. Because, y'know, it wouldn't really work if the farmers hated the game. Although Jagex spends time and effort making this game, does it not occur to you that they are currently making money, although there's a ton of gold farmers out there?

 

The bold point is a paradox.

 

 

 

It doesn't matter, it's still stealing. I doubt the police would pardon you for stealing a million or too from Bill gates, even for a charity fund. Your sentence might be less, but it would STILL BE CONSIDERED AGAINST THE LAW!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets say you have 1000$ in your bank account. Thats your property, right? Then a person comes along and takes 10$ a week without your permission out of this account. You finally catch them in the act after days of trying to find the source of this problem. Your pretty pissed at them, but they just say "Hey, this money is for all the starving children in Africa. It's for the greater good dude, so don't worry." How would you feel then?

 

 

 

But the situation above isn't the exact same. This would be the on, I think:

 

Let's say you have 1000$ in your bank account. That's your property, right? Say you make 15$ of profit everyday, but someone steals 10$ off you everyday and says it's for starving kids in Africa. How would you feel?

 

 

 

I was only using it as a semi-example.. I don't know how this relates to the argument whatsoever..

[Triforceelf]

But the situation above isn't the exact same. This would be the on, I think:

 

Let's say you have 1000$ in your bank account. That's your property, right? Say you make 15$ of profit everyday, but someone steals 10$ off you everyday and says it's for starving kids in Africa. How would you feel?

 

 

 

I'd say I can donate to orphens on my own time. It is neither the governments nor anyone elses job to force charity on anyone. My money is my money and it is between me and God what I do with it.

[123Yourgone]

Jagex rules and the law are 2 very different things.

[Unoalexi]

Jagex rules and the law are 2 very different things.

 

 

 

The buying and selling of stolen gold is theft of Jagex property, as well as copyright violations.

[123Yourgone]

Jagex rules and the law are 2 very different things.

 

 

 

The buying and selling of stolen gold is theft of Jagex property, as well as copyright violations.

No it isnt.

 

Its clearly stated in almost all gold trades that you are only trading the time and effort used to gather the gold.

 

And how is it theft?, the pixels are right there on jagex servers, nothing was taken from them at all.

[Ss_J9_Goten]

If they consider their terms of use a contract then it would be contact violation. And it could be theft of intellectual property as they are selling Jagex's items without permission.

[Omar]

I'm not saying what they're doing is good, I'm saying it's not as bad.

 

(Talking about the 1000$ analogy)

[Omar]

Bump!

[Iamdan]

 

Let's say you have 1000$ in your bank account. That's your property, right? Say you make 15$ of profit everyday, but someone steals 10$ off you everyday and says it's for starving kids in Africa. How would you feel?

 

 

 

A more accurate situation would be:

 

 

 

Say you have $1000 in your bank account. That's your property, right?

 

Say you get paid a profit of $15 a day between 15 people. ($1 each)

 

 

 

But 5 other people also give you $1 a day, but scare away 2 or 3 of the other people. This is a $3 profit increase. These 5 people also feed starving people in africa in return for letting them give you money.

 

 

 

(gold farmers buy membership, and annoy a very small amount of people enough to make them quit, the paying gold farmers easily outweigh the legit quitters)

[Omar]

I'm confused. I'll think about this later on...

[IAm314159]

Sometimes, for them to survive, gold farming is the only way in which they can earn money. Although I do not like macroers keeping the prices of commodities down, as I'm a F2P yew woodcutter. :evil:

[HOSTiLE_KAi]

Soz mate but most of the commodity prices didn't actually drop significantly over a LONG period of time, let say yew logs it did fell to 250 ea at some point (for 1 or 2 months?), but nowadays its sitting at 300+ ea due to the fact there are more demand in that material and possibly because of more players.

 

 

 

Ore prices (it rose because of bolts imo), rune ess (due to the pure ess update), and lobsters (this never fell at all)behaved the same way too.

 

 

 

However they did take out a CHUNK of resources from the legimate players who truly play the game for fun.

 

 

 

The thing is I think gold farmers are pretty unrealistic, but you gotta reconsider that they may suffer from a lack of jobs and other reasons that you can sympathize on.

[WookieeMania12]

So... Bots are good because they keep the economy "stable"? The last time there were so many bots, the shark prices went down to about 300-400gp ea. That meant that a lot of fishers wanted to fish lobs (around 200gp ea) because they were quicker than sharks. That meant that those who are cooking for 99 cooking found it harder to find people who would sell a lot of sharks. So, if you consider that "stable", then I recommend that you have your head examined. Especially Wcing bots. Example:

 

 

 

the good honest player: Selling 10k yew logs 350gp ea!!!

 

 

 

As you can see, the honest player is making money while being a rather nice guy.

 

 

 

The autoer: Selling 100k yew logs 200gp ea

 

 

 

What the heck happened? He lost his business to a bot! Later on, the yews became 200gp-300gp ea because many bots were selling yews at cheap pricers.

 

 

 

That stable?