Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?

[johntm]

I just made this thread to see what the people of TIF think on this. Please post your reason for saying its right/ wrong. And yes religion is a perfectly acceptable answer. Just specify which one.

 

 

 

Aight, for me its to reasons. Yes ones religion. Im a Christian (a Baptist to be more specific) so of course its wrong, and its just plain nasty. Ill admit, ive watched girls gone wild before :oops: but i regret. Hey, at least it was edited.

 

 

 

Edit: Damn, this is unbelievable. I made this soooooo long ago, and I had left tip.it for a while (for the forums on bungie.net), too. I just came back to see what's up here, and saw this. It surprised me.

[dwarfdude3]

I think its just people trying to get attention. People can choose not to be homosexual if they want. I know I'll get a bunch of crap for saying this, but thats what I think.

 

 

 

also, seeing as the bible says homosexuality is a sin, I see there can be only 3 possibilities:

 

 

 

1. its a choice

 

2. its not a choice and the bible is wrong

 

3. its not a choice and the bible is right

 

 

 

I think we can rule out choice 3, cause God would have to be really stupid to create someone who is inherently sinful and can't do anything about it...

 

 

 

but I mean, what about when girls go to parties and get drunk and make out with each other, then say they aren't lesbians... They obviously were just trying to get attention. Which is the same with most homosexual people I think.

[johntm]

I think its just people trying to get attention. People can choose not to be homosexual if they want. I know I'll get a bunch of crap for saying this, but thats what I think.

 

 

 

also, seeing as the bible says homosexuality is a sin, I see there can be only 3 possibilities:

 

 

 

1. its a choice

 

2. its not a choice and the bible is wrong

 

3. its not a choice and the bible is right

 

 

 

I think we can rule out choice 3, cause God would have to be really stupid to create someone who is inherently sinful and can't do anything about it...

 

 

 

but I mean, what about when girls go to parties and get drunk and make out with each other, then say they aren't [bleep]... They obviously were just trying to get attention. Which is the same with most homosexual people I think.

 

 

 

Right. I doubt choice 3 is true. Its a choice, and a bad one. You could get HIV/AIDS if you... you know. Two guys :-X :ohnoes:

[IGoddessI]

Goddess loves you if you love men or women : I respect what you choose.

[Intriguing]

I used to be a Chrisitian, and I will never homosexuality as a choice for my own sexuality, but one of the reasons I stopped being a Christian (not the only one, don't worry) is because of the discrimination against homosexuals in the Christian community. Sure, if people ask you, let them know your beliefs, but if they don't want to know, butt the hell out.

 

Basically I get really frustrated with anyone who discriminates against gays. I could never be attracted to a man, but if people are attracted to people from the same sex as them, it's their business.

 

Just a note, I believe homosexuality is a choice.

[Rebdragon]

I think its just people trying to get attention. People can choose not to be homosexual if they want. I know I'll get a bunch of crap for saying this, but thats what I think.

 

 

 

also, seeing as the bible says homosexuality is a sin, I see there can be only 3 possibilities:

 

 

 

1. its a choice

 

2. its not a choice and the bible is wrong

 

3. its not a choice and the bible is right

 

 

 

I think we can rule out choice 3, cause God would have to be really stupid to create someone who is inherently sinful and can't do anything about it...

 

 

 

but I mean, what about when girls go to parties and get drunk and make out with each other, then say they aren't [bleep]... They obviously were just trying to get attention. Which is the same with most homosexual people I think.

 

That's odd, everything I've learned in my Catholic religion classes points towards number three. Try knowing what you're talking about :-s .

 

 

 

As I've said countless times... Christianity does not regard homosexuality itself as sinful, as it is not a choice. It does regard acting on homosexual thoughts as sinful though, which is why the Church asks homosexuals to live a chaste life, in the same way that heterosexuals should live a chaste life until marriage (though more constricted I suppose, as homosexuals aren't permitted to act on their sexual preferences at all).

 

 

 

Me, I think it's bullcrap no matter how you look at it, just like 90% of the quoted post. It's 2AM here right now though, so I'll let someone else handle that "thing" referred to as a post. Too tired to enlighten such an ill-informed opinion any more... :wall: .

 

 

 

Right. I doubt choice 3 is true. Its a choice, and a bad one. You could get HIV/AIDS if you... you know. Two guys :-X :ohnoes:

 

Dear god.

 

 

 

Who here wants to sign a petition to get this guy out of the Off-Topic forum? Jesus Christ dude.

[Collective]

I think its just people trying to get attention. People can choose not to be homosexual if they want. I know I'll get a bunch of crap for saying this, but thats what I think.

 

You don't think - you've let other people (not God) do your thinking for you. Congratulations on being brainwashed :)

 

 

 

Homosexuality isn't "right" or "wrong", it's a personal choice.

 

 

 

You could get HIV/AIDS

 

HIV doesn't care whether you're gay or not.

[Sir_Alex85]

Seeing as how "Right" and "Wrong" are opinions, you really can't use those words for this, or any other personal choice.

 

 

 

Personally, I have no problems with it. To each his or her own.

[dwarfdude3]

I think its just people trying to get attention. People can choose not to be homosexual if they want. I know I'll get a bunch of crap for saying this, but thats what I think.

 

 

 

also, seeing as the bible says homosexuality is a sin, I see there can be only 3 possibilities:

 

 

 

1. its a choice

 

2. its not a choice and the bible is wrong

 

3. its not a choice and the bible is right

 

 

 

I think we can rule out choice 3, cause God would have to be really stupid to create someone who is inherently sinful and can't do anything about it...

 

 

 

but I mean, what about when girls go to parties and get drunk and make out with each other, then say they aren't [bleep]... They obviously were just trying to get attention. Which is the same with most homosexual people I think.

 

That's odd, everything I've learned in my Catholic religion classes points towards number three. Try knowing what you're talking about :-s .

 

 

 

As I've said countless times... Christianity does not regard homosexuality itself as sinful, as it is not a choice. It does regard acting on homosexual thoughts as sinful though, which is why the Church asks homosexuals to live a chaste life, in the same way that heterosexuals should live a chaste life until marriage (though more constricted I suppose, as homosexuals aren't permitted to act on their sexual preferences at all).

 

 

 

Me, I think it's bullcrap no matter how you look at it, just like 90% of the quoted post. It's 2AM here right now though, so I'll let someone else handle that "thing" referred to as a post. Too tired to enlighten such an ill-informed opinion any more... :wall: .

 

 

 

 

So you think God made some people just to see if they could suppress themselves?

 

 

 

Doesn't sounds like a very compassionate God to me...

[warri0r45]

 

Most human sexuality researchers believe that one's orientation is fixed and unchangeable. Exceptions are those specialists in human sexuality who are also religious conservatives. Many of the latter are members of NARTH, a small professional organization that promotes conservative religious beliefs about homosexuality.

 

 

 

A number of techniques have been used to try to suppress homosexual feelings and/or create heterosexual feelings in gays and lesbians: 1

 

 

 

Lesbians had their breasts amputated.

 

Lesbians had their perfectly healthy uteri removed.

 

Male gays were given aversion therapy; e.g. clients were shown pictures of naked men and simultaneously shocked with electricity.

 

 

 

Other "treatments" included:

 

 

 

brain surgery in the form of frontal lobotomies.

 

castration.

 

counseling and psychotherapy.

 

drug therapy: e.g. animal-organ extracts, cocaine, estrogen, testosterone.

 

positive therapy: e.g. men were asked to masturbate and then were shown pictures of women just before orgasm.

 

prayer and spiritual counseling.

 

therapy by tedium: men were shown homoerotic pictures until they became totally bored.

 

During the Nazi regime in Germany, Himmler attempted to "cure" gays by requiring them to visit the camp brothel at Flossenburg. "Ten Ravensbruck women provided the services with little success. The women [were later]...shipped to Auschwitz" for execution.

 

During the recent apartheid regime in South Africa, gays and lesbians were considered deviants. They were sent to a special ward of a military hospital to be "rehabilitated." This involved electric shock treatments and chemical castration. Those who could not be "cured" were given sex-change operations. A number of "patients" died.

 

 

 

The success rate of these therapies in actually changing clients' sexual orientation appears to have been between 0% and something less than 0.1%. The success rate at changing clients' sexual behavior is much greater. Some of these techniques can persuade homosexuals to be celibate -- perhaps only for a short interval -- either through terror, guilt, or persuasion that God considers same-sex behavior to be an abomination. They can persuade bisexuals to confine their sexual activities to members of the opposite sex. They may even be able to train gays to successfully have sex with a woman, while fantasize about making love to another man. But therapies do not seem to be capable of changing one's feelings -- one's sexual orientation -- in the vast majority of people.

 

 

 

Scientific studies: Detection of homosexual propensity in children: Richard Green, a psychiatrist from UCLA has compared effeminate with "masculine" boys. 5 Children who grow up to become homosexuals often engage in "gender inappropriate play" in early childhood. 6 "'Feminine' boys played about four times as much with the doll...a third as much with the truck." By interviewing their child subjects later in life when they were in their teens and early twenties, the researchers found that 75% of the effeminate boys had become gay adult males. It is obvious that these boys were not taught this behavior. They did not copy their behavior from other children in the family; they were often under harsh and severe pressure from their parents to change. One reasonable conclusion is that that they are driven to this type of behavior by an innate trait which is outside of their control and consciousness.

 

 

 

 

From here.

 

 

 

I don't agree that it's some sort of fluid choice and the idea that something innate and uncontrollable is somehow wrong or sinful is disturbing to me. Therefore, I don't think it's 'wrong'. It's not how you get kids, but that's not a marker for what's right.

[How2PK]

It's not right or wrong. I accept it and it doesn't bother me at all.

[Adam007]

And yes religion is a perfectly acceptable answer. Just specify which one.

 

 

Who are you to decide that? I'm not going to call homosexuality "right," because it's obviously not the norm. That doesn't make it wrong though. You have no control over who you find attractive. I laugh at how people say that you can choose which sex you find attractive. As a heterosexual male I know I could under no circumstances choose to find males sexually attractive. It's such a shame homosexuals have to deal with all the discrimination and insults they do just because of religion. Give it enough time though, and this social movement hopefully will take it's course and they won't be discriminated against anymore.

[Rebdragon]

So you think God made some people just to see if they could suppress themselves?

 

 

 

Doesn't sounds like a very compassionate God to me...

 

Nope, don't believe in God, and I don't agree with the Church's opinion against homosexuals. I just happen to know and understand it [for to deny something, you must first fully understand what you are denying].

 

 

 

But it's the right choice for the Church to make. They have they're reasons for it ("a relationship should be both procreative and unitive") and they can't really change they're stance, 'cause there's no turning back if they do, and there's no way it'll blow over well in the Christian community, especially since it'll weaken the strength the Church has in it's steadfast beliefs (especially in matters of pro-life, considering the fact that the Church is the leading pro-life organization in the world). They're playing it safe, the smart thing to do.

 

 

 

Still don't agree with it; I'm with Goddess on this one.

[venomai]

I think its just people trying to get attention. People can choose not to be homosexual if they want. I know I'll get a bunch of crap for saying this, but thats what I think.

 

Nope... Not at all. In fact, many homosexuals hide the truth and pretend to act straight.

 

 

 

Only bisexuals can truly choose not to be heterosexual or homosexual, as they aren't totally restricted by the desires of the body and mind.

 

 

 

but I mean, what about when girls go to parties and get drunk and make out with each other, then say they aren't [bleep]... They obviously were just trying to get attention. Which is the same with most homosexual people I think.

 

Sometimes, but IMO it's also because girls tend to be less homophobic and therefore don't worry so much about same-sex contact.

 

 

 

also, seeing as the bible says homosexuality is a sin

 

......

 

Riiight... cause we all know how up-to-date the Bible is with the 21st century. :roll: The Times They Are a-Changin'

 

 

 

Right. I doubt choice 3 is true. Its a choice, and a bad one. You could get HIV/AIDS if you... you know. Two guys :-X :ohnoes:

 

I guess you haven't reached sex ed in school yet. HIV affects both heterosexuals and homosexuals. It is transmitted from individual to individual, regardless of gender.

 

 

 

If you haven't already guessed, I'm very pro-homosexuality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: warri0r, great find. =D>

[johntm]

dont turn this into a religious debate i just want to know your opinions

[jemathonical]

I don't see anything wrong about homesexuality. Whatever floats your boat I guess. If they are both happy being homesexual, let them

[warri0r45]

dont turn this into a religious debate i just want to know your opinions

 

 

 

Perhaps you'd like to read the quotes I presented and explain to me how something so supposedly innate and unchangable can be wrong. it's like saying my choice to reflex when I'm about to be hit is wrong. It's not going to change easily at all.

 

 

 

But let me anticipate your response, which will answer why this is very much a religious issue. "The science must be wrong because the bible is right."

 

 

 

If I'm wrong, please tell me so I can apologise and retract my presumption.

[unkn0wnwarrior]

I agree with Jem... Who am I to judge them? If they prefer the company of their own sex, more power to them.

[jemathonical]

In Homosexual News ~

 

On Rove a couple of nights ago I found out that Darren Hayes (former member of Savage Garden) is Homosexual and he is married to another man. My opinion hasn't changed about him. So he's gay, I say good on him for coming out and being open about it.

[Matok]

let me ask you this:

 

Christianity, right or wrong?heterosexuality,right or wrong?

 

right? realy? says who? God? Is there a God?Is he christain,muslim or jew?

 

 

 

o man...next time think before you post.

 

My favorite cousin, one of the nicest,good hearted and inteligent person i ever met, is probably biting pillows as we speak,so what? does it make him lesser human being?

 

 

 

live and let live,i say,respect other's choices and do your own.

 

dont look around,look into yourself.

 

And thats the definite truth.Ruth.

[dwarfdude3]

Let me ask you all this:

 

 

 

Seeing as two guys having sex won't create a baby, why even do it in the first place? and why even have two guys in a relationship or married if they aren't going to have any children?

 

 

 

For pleasure, you might say? thats just sick. It is just not natural.

[jemathonical]

Let me ask you all this:

 

 

 

Seeing as two guys having sex won't create a baby, why even do it in the first place? and why even have two guys in a relationship or married if they aren't going to have any children?

 

 

 

For pleasure, you might say? thats just sick. It is just not natural.

 

 

 

Having sex just isn't about making babies, ya know. You will learn this :wink:

 

But who cares if two guys are going at it? If they want to be that way, let them. It's probably natural for them..

[Zonorhc]

As an avid consumer of girl-on-girl pornography, I do not find homosexuality objectionable.

[IGoddessI]

I would like to argue that in a way children are taught that behaviour with Freud's Oedipus complex/ identification theory.

 

 

 

Obviously there is more evidence out there and contradictory evidence for this theory as if you were to have a case study without it, it wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t be very critical of you.

 

 

 

This theory in particular is just one I favour.

 

 

 

During the Oedipus complex little boys want exclusive relationships with their motherÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s e.g. "I'm going to marry you" and vice verser with little girls and their fathers.

 

 

 

From a young boys prospective:

 

 

 

"Why should Mummy spend the night alone with Daddy? Why can't I go in there instead?" Western, Burton, Kowalski (2006)

 

 

 

It is during this phallic stage (4-6 years) that children identify with their parents (especially same sex) and establishment of conscience.

 

 

 

What I mean by this is little boys identify with their fathers by imitating their behaviour. Much of adult personality is built through identification, as the child internalises motives, behaviours, beliefs and ideas.

 

 

 

A longitudinal study of children's attitudes toward themselves provides some empirical support for Freud's theory of identification (Koestner, Zuroff & Powers, 1991) The extent to which girls were self-critical at age 12 correlated with observer ratings of their mother as restrictive and rejecting at age 5. For boys, self-criticism correlated with these same behaviours manifested by their fathers, not their mothers. This suggests that boys' and girls' attitudes toward themselves may be strongly influenced by identification with the same-sex parent, although of course, children identify with both parents.

 

 

 

Boys unconsciously fear that their father (their ultimate rival), will castrate them because of their desires for their mother (the castration complex).

 

 

 

The fear is so threatening according to Freud that they repress their oedipal wishes and identify with their father. In other words, they internalise a moral prohibition against incest as a way of preventing themselves from acting on their wishes, which would be dangerous, and they instead become like their father in the hope of someday obtaining someone like their mother. Girls, too, renounce their secret wishes towards their fathers and identify with their mothers because they fear losing her love.

 

 

 

It is theorised that homosexual men fail to relate to their father and instead of showing an interest to daddy shaving, want to bake cakes with mummy. Or perhaps daddy wasn't there to teach them that. A lot of gay men have over bearing mothers and were raised by single parents.

[xvillexvalox]

As an avid consumer of girl-on-girl pornography, I do not find homosexuality objectionable.

 

I like the way you think. (Or should I say with what you think)

 

 

 

 

 

I see it the same as someone objecting you for liking certain types of the opposite sex, except with homosexuals, its certain types of people.

 

Objecting someone for being gay is the same as objecting someone for preffering a different soda.

 

 

 

There's nothing wrong with it, and shouldn't be anyone else's business.