Homosexuality: Right or Wrong?

[highlanders]

By the way, the religious people who say that hate gays because god is against it, how the hell can you know what god wants or does not want? Just face it, religion can make people think and do a whole lot of wacky things, like making people believe blowing yourself up and others will make you go to heaven, or, that intolerance against gays is justified, while tolerance is one of the universal moral laws Jesus wanted to teach to people, looks like people still don't get it. :thumbdown:

[insane]

If environment and culture factor into it then it would be possible to change.

 

 

 

Don't even get me started on Nature Vs Nurture.

 

 

 

It wouldn't be possible to change because you learn to identify with your same sex parent a year before you develop a conscience in your childhood.

 

 

 

Therefore, if you fail to identify with your same sex parent and become gay, you are gay before you develop a conscience.

 

 

 

Hence why many gays believe "they were born gay" They were gay before they developed the conscience to know so.

 

 

 

yes warrior, I read your post, but it doesn't change the fact that it remains possible to change and that people have done it

 

 

 

No it is possible to become gender CONFUSED after the phallic stage of childhood development.

 

 

 

Could you cite your sources? I cited wikipedia claiming that environment and culture play a part (in my last post). You have not cited anything.

 

 

 

I understand you may be a psychology student but it by no means gives you the right to tell people that they are merely sexually "confused". Psychology is an extremely subjective science, if it is science at all, and cannot be applied objectively to every person. Until there is some sort of biological proof that people are born with an inherent sexuality, I won't be taking a psychologists view on this as objectively true. Is it possible for you to *prove* that they are merely "sexually confused"? Or is it just regurgitated Freudian theory?

 

 

 

I'd rather argue with a biologist where things are factual in theory and practice. Psychology might be theoretically enticing but it is completely sporadic in practice.

[IGoddessI]

Could you cite your sources? I cited wikipedia claiming that environment and culture play a part (in my last post). You have not cited anything.

 

 

 

I cited everything a few pages back, I merely put the cited sources in to a case study scenario, read. For someone who can put together more than 4 letter words, I was expecting at least a database source rather than wikipedia which is highly inaccurate at the best of times.

 

 

 

I understand you may be a psychology student but it by no means gives you the right to tell people that they are merely sexually "confused".

 

 

 

Student and occupation. No you're right. Some are confused and some are just gay :D

 

 

 

Psychology is an extremely subjective science, if it is science at all, and cannot be applied objectively to every person.

 

 

 

Psychology is based on science, go read the APA manual. It's not the early 1900's anymore.

 

 

 

I'd rather argue with a biologist where things are factual in theory and practice. Psychology might be theoretically enticing but it is completely sporadic in practice.

 

 

 

That paragraph shows me you know little about psychology, more so making personal bias assumptions. I majored in biology (which was a compulsory subject) I don't theorise or guess how things impact on the brain you know ha-ha. I've messaged you my MSN so when you want this "argument" to begin, drop in.

[THEMASKEDMAN52]

Right. There's nothing wrong with being LGBTA. Here's the facts.

 

 

 

There are over 1500 studied animals that are gay or lesbian. In some species the entire species or majority of the species can be entirely gay or lesbian. They would use a surrogated mother, and only need enough reproduction to survive. One example is sheep. The majority of male sheep would rather mate and live with other male sheep. This adds to the many studies done on the humans species. An important one regards finger length (longer ring leans toward heterosexuality (testosteroin shot at birth) and longer index finger leans toward homosexuality (estrogen shot at birth). This is males, there's studies for lesbians as well (longer ring finger leans towards homosexuality, both the same leans toward heteroseuxalty)). Others are neurological responses to body odors (ex. armpits) and testosterone and estrogen.

 

 

 

As for religion, here are more facts:

 

 

 

Don't believe what the Bible (especially the KJV version) says. There are 3-4 verses against homosexuality, and 47 against adultery. Some even suggest the original translators for the KJV version of the Bible purposely mistranslated these verses, because they do not exist as this in the early German Bibles. The verses in question are:

 

 

 

Romans 1:26-27, which is a mistranslation of the Greek words, "physin" and "paraphysin". Contrary to popular belief, the word "paraphysin" does not mean, 'to go against the laws of nature', but rather implies action which is uncharacteristic for that particular person. An example of the word "paraphysin" is used in Romans 11:24, where God acts in an uncharacteristic (paraphysin) way to accept the Gentiles.

 

 

 

1 Corinthians 6:9, which is a mistranslation of the Greek word, "malakee". It's used elsewhere in the Bible to mean, 'someone who lacks discipline' or, 'one who is morally weak', and never is used in reference to sexuality or gender.

 

 

 

And those in Leviticus, which any true Christian would know are a list of sins only relevant to the pastors at the time, as a kind of test, there are tons of sins. Besides that, one of the verses in question, is even mistranslated as well, and actually says a man married to man shall not sleep with a man married to man aka adultery.

 

 

 

The words for homosexuality and heterosexuality did not exist in Ancient Greek and Hebrew. The concept of being born gay did not exist (not until the mid 1800's), they thought everyone was born straight. In many cases, acts of homosexuality were highly regarded, and looked up to, there was even a gay wedding in early Christianity.

 

 

 

Love is not a sin. Bigotry and intolerance are.

[fakeitormakeit]

I respect their decision but I looking at myself would never be homosexual because I am Roman Catholic and let religion alone I think its unnatural for 2 of the same sex to, get married, etc. I don't care if people flame me, I'm only expressing my views and I'm not shoving it down anyone's throat.

[Kill_Thomas9]

Isnt it a bit more like saying

 

"Painting your house blue is worse than painting it white because blue is blue."

 

 

 

no, that would be like saying "gay sex is worse than gay sex because its gay.

[Erk02]

Isnt it a bit more like saying

 

"Painting your house blue is worse than painting it white because blue is blue."

 

 

 

no, that would be like saying "gay sex is worse than gay sex because its gay.

That's basically what people are saying in this thread.

[fakeitormakeit]

I would never be homosexual nor do I like support it or anything, also I am no theological expert, but God said he loved all his creations and he didn't said "Gay=Instant Hell ticket"

[stopspe]

Whats wrong with it. I dont live it, but i dont think the government should make ppl marry someone of the opposite gender. if they wanna live like that, they can live like that. I dont have a problem with it.

[The Dark Lord]

 

Most human sexuality researchers believe that one's orientation is fixed and unchangeable. Exceptions are those specialists in human sexuality who are also religious conservatives. Many of the latter are members of NARTH, a small professional organization that promotes conservative religious beliefs about homosexuality.

 

 

 

A number of techniques have been used to try to suppress homosexual feelings and/or create heterosexual feelings in gays and [bleep]: 1

 

 

 

[bleep] had their breasts amputated.

 

[bleep] had their perfectly healthy uteri removed.

 

Male gays were given aversion therapy; e.g. clients were shown pictures of naked men and simultaneously shocked with electricity.

 

 

 

Other "treatments" included:

 

 

 

brain surgery in the form of frontal lobotomies.

 

castration.

 

counseling and psychotherapy.

 

drug therapy: e.g. animal-organ extracts, cocaine, estrogen, testosterone.

 

positive therapy: e.g. men were asked to masturbate and then were shown pictures of women just before orgasm.

 

prayer and spiritual counseling.

 

therapy by tedium: men were shown homoerotic pictures until they became totally bored.

 

During the Nazi regime in Germany, Himmler attempted to "cure" gays by requiring them to visit the camp brothel at Flossenburg. "Ten Ravensbruck women provided the services with little success. The women [were later]...shipped to Auschwitz" for execution.

 

During the recent apartheid regime in South Africa, gays and [bleep] were considered deviants. They were sent to a special ward of a military hospital to be "rehabilitated." This involved electric shock treatments and chemical castration. Those who could not be "cured" were given sex-change operations. A number of "patients" died.

 

 

 

The success rate of these therapies in actually changing clients' sexual orientation appears to have been between 0% and something less than 0.1%. The success rate at changing clients' sexual behavior is much greater. Some of these techniques can persuade homosexuals to be celibate -- perhaps only for a short interval -- either through terror, guilt, or persuasion that God considers same-sex behavior to be an abomination. They can persuade bisexuals to confine their sexual activities to members of the opposite sex. They may even be able to train gays to successfully have sex with a woman, while fantasize about making love to another man. But therapies do not seem to be capable of changing one's feelings -- one's sexual orientation -- in the vast majority of people.

 

 

 

Scientific studies: Detection of homosexual propensity in children: Richard Green, a psychiatrist from UCLA has compared effeminate with "masculine" boys. 5 Children who grow up to become homosexuals often engage in "gender inappropriate play" in early childhood. 6 "'Feminine' boys played about four times as much with the doll...a third as much with the truck." By interviewing their child subjects later in life when they were in their teens and early twenties, the researchers found that 75% of the effeminate boys had become gay adult males. It is obvious that these boys were not taught this behavior. They did not copy their behavior from other children in the family; they were often under harsh and severe pressure from their parents to change. One reasonable conclusion is that that they are driven to this type of behavior by an innate trait which is outside of their control and consciousness.

 

 

 

 

From here.

 

 

 

I don't agree that it's some sort of fluid choice and the idea that something innate and uncontrollable is somehow wrong or sinful is disturbing to me. Therefore, I don't think it's 'wrong'. It's not how you get kids, but that's not a marker for what's right.

 

 

 

I believe I read somewhere (I don't remember where.) that sexual orientation is fully developed in the teenage years. By the way, parents should have probably taken their boys to a therapist when they started behaving that way. I believe it's a disorder called GID (Gender Identification Disorder). Some people develope a sexual identity of the opposite sex. They should be treated with tolerance, etc. Not all "feminized" males have this disorder though. Some males are born as sensitive, empathetic, and non-aggressive people. There's nothing wrong with that, is there? No.

 

 

 

------

 

 

 

I'm neither for nor against homosexuality/bisexuality. I agree, it's not normal for a male to be attracted to another male and a female to be attracted to another female. However, that doesn't mean it's wrong either.

 

 

 

Everything can be immoral or moral. Morals are human-defined. There are morals we all share (such as it's wrong to murder, etc.) but our moral ideals can vary (such as premarital sex is wrong, etc.). Don't let religion dictate to you what you feel is moral or immoral. Think for yourself.

 

 

 

Personally, I'm not attracted to the male body. Everyone might covet characteristics of members of the same sex, but that doesn't mean they are sexually attracted to the body. I might see a picture of a guy and then I'll covet characteristics such as hair, facial features, skin, bone structure, etc.

 

 

 

I'm sexually attracted to the female body. I might covet characteristics of females as well. Personally, I don't like square jaws, short hair, hair on other regions of the body, broad shoulders, huge muscles, etc.

[fakeitormakeit]

 

I believe I read somewhere (I don't remember where.) that sexual orientation is fully developed in the teenage years. By the way, parents should have probably taken their boys to a therapist when they started behaving that way. I believe it's a disorder called GID (Gender Identification Disorder). Some people develope a sexual identity of the opposite sex. They should be treated with tolerance, etc. Not all "feminized" males have this disorder though. Some males are born as sensitive, empathetic, and non-aggressive people. There's nothing wrong with that, is there? No.

 

 

 

------

 

 

 

I'm neither for nor against homosexuality/bisexuality. I agree, it's not normal for a male to be attracted to another male and a female to be attracted to another female. However, that doesn't mean it's wrong either.

 

 

 

Everything can be immoral or moral. Morals are human-defined. There are morals we all share (such as it's wrong to murder, etc.) but our moral ideals can vary (such as premarital sex is wrong, etc.). Don't let religion dictate to you what you feel is moral or immoral. Think for yourself.

 

 

 

Personally, I'm not attracted to the male body. Everyone might covet characteristics of members of the same sex, but that doesn't mean they are sexually attracted to the body. I might see a picture of a guy and then I'll covet characteristics such as hair, facial features, skin, bone structure, etc.

 

 

 

I'm sexually attracted to the female body. I might covet characteristics of females as well. Personally, I don't like square jaws, short hair, hair on other regions of the body, broad shoulders, huge muscles, etc.

 

Yay you are my twin of thought except you can express it in a much better way, lol.

[RayOxide]

Goddess loves you if you love men or women : I respect what you choose.

 

 

 

Lol. :XD:

 

 

 

And, how many stupid people do we have here that think HIV/AIDS are only Sexually Transmitted by Homosexuals...? I've counted alot.

 

 

 

Let's put it like this: Condoms are good. Babies are bad.

[warri0r45]

I respect their decision but I looking at myself would never be homosexual because I am Roman Catholic and let religion alone I think its unnatural for 2 of the same sex to, get married, etc. I don't care if people flame me, I'm only expressing my views and I'm not shoving it down anyone's throat.

 

 

 

What makes you think marriage itself is natural? It's a man made concept. If it happened to be the case where gay unions were considered normal and you were brought up in such a society, you'd feel the same way. But, just because you've been brought up in a society dominated by the ideal of marriage between man and woman, you see gay union as 'unnatural.'

 

 

 

Just playing devils advocate. It's an interesting concept when you realise everything you know is in fact learned and not necessarily the truth, right or wrong.

[Matok]

i think the quote below explains why this stupid topic was created in the first place

 

 

Found my hobby. Actually i got it for my b day. Im 14 now. And i have an xbox 360 elite with halo 2 ncaa 08 andxbox live w00t

 

 

taken from this thread

 

so lets not loose proportions... the kid might grow up of his ignorency one day

[THEMASKEDMAN52]

I love how many people skipped over my post.

 

 

 

I love even more the fact everyone on this entire thread ignores the fact 1500 species of animals have been studied and can be homosexual. Animals don't choose that kind of stuff, they don't reason. Homosexuality is not exclusive to humans. And no one against it has yet to explain how it occurs in animals, and better yet, how it isn't natural because those animals still survive.

[Zonorhc]

i think the quote below explains why this stupid topic was created in the first place

 

 

Found my hobby. Actually i got it for my b day. Im 14 now. And i have an xbox 360 elite with halo 2 ncaa 08 andxbox live w00t

 

 

taken from this thread

 

so lets not loose proportions... the kid might grow up of his ignorency one day

 

No it doesn't.

[PaperClipsYaaaar]

I would never be homosexual nor do I like support it or anything

 

Yeah, because supporting gay rights means that you're totally gay yourself, right?

[warri0r45]

I love how many people skipped over my post.

 

 

 

I love even more the fact everyone on this entire thread ignores the fact 1500 species of animals have been studied and can be homosexual. Animals don't choose that kind of stuff, they don't reason. Homosexuality is not exclusive to humans. And no one against it has yet to explain how it occurs in animals, and better yet, how it isn't natural because those animals still survive.

 

 

 

That fact hasn't been ignored. Assassin brought up that issue and if I remember correctly, someone else did too.

[Mercifull]

Your post was ignored by the fundamentalist right because it provides evidence contrary to their belief system and proves them wrong.

[assassin_696]

I haven't got much left to say here, the facts about the matter have been put forward by others and to some extent, myself. People who are continually ignoring the facts are just burying their heads in the sand, and I have no time for that kind of attitude.

 

 

 

@Korskin, your whole argument falls down on the premise that homosexuality is a danger to society based on the fact that "it spreads disease", when in fact it could only ever spread disease to other homosexual men, and in reality far more disease is spread by heterosexuals, and as Satenza said, with more far reaching consequences.

 

 

 

I just wanna say this as well; I always find it hilarious how many homophobes are worried that homosexuals will start hitting on them at the first possible chance. Seriously, stop flattering yourselves.

[warri0r45]

I haven't got much left to say here, the facts about the matter have been put forward by others and to some extent, myself. People who are continually ignoring the facts are just burying their heads in the sand, and I have no time for that kind of attitude.

 

 

 

@Korskin, your whole argument falls down on the premise that homosexuality is a danger to society based on the fact that "it spreads disease", when in fact it could only ever spread disease to other homosexual men, and in reality far more disease is spread by heterosexuals, and as Satenza said, with more far reaching consequences.

 

 

 

I just wanna say this as well; I always find it hilarious how many homophobes are worried that homosexuals will start hitting on them at the first possible chance. Seriously, stop flattering yourselves.

 

 

 

Haha, so true. The first assumption is that the claimant is attractive enough to be hit on by a gay man and the second assumption is that they often do openly hit on guys, which I doubt is true considering the social stigma towards homosexuals.

[Ambassadar]

I always find it hilarious how many homophobes are worried that homosexuals will start hitting on them at the first possible chance. Seriously, stop flattering yourselves.

 

 

 

Sad to say but I got hit on by a gay guy once. Pretty awkward...

[Guest]

I respect their decision but I looking at myself would never be homosexual because I am Roman Catholic and let religion alone I think its unnatural for 2 of the same sex to, get married, etc. I don't care if people flame me, I'm only expressing my views and I'm not shoving it down anyone's throat.

 

 

 

What makes you think marriage itself is natural? It's a man made concept. If it happened to be the case where gay unions were considered normal and you were brought up in such a society, you'd feel the same way. But, just because you've been brought up in a society dominated by the ideal of marriage between man and woman, you see gay union as 'unnatural.'

 

 

 

Just playing devils advocate. It's an interesting concept when you realise everything you know is in fact learned and not necessarily the truth, right or wrong.

 

 

 

Its not of the norm he probably meant, and rightly so. Marriage has always been between a male and female for centuries past. If they want to be different and live out a homosexual relationship why do they care to want to engage in an activity which has been 2 people from both sexes, marrying?

[Mercifull]

I always find it hilarious how many homophobes are worried that homosexuals will start hitting on them at the first possible chance. Seriously, stop flattering yourselves.

 

Sad to say but I got hit on by a gay guy once. Pretty awkward...

I have never been chatted up by a guy before, not even when I was in a gay pub for my friends birthday. I worry far more about being hit on by an ugly fat girl hehe.

[Ambassadar]

What makes you think marriage itself is natural?

 

 

 

What would the human race be like if marriage had never been invented?