"Runescape : an education that kids don't need?"

[supanova]

now, first and foremost, i would like to make it clear that the following is not my opinion, but is an article i found on the internet (i was browsing RuneScape on Wikipedia :oops: ) and after reading this, i thought i had to share it with the rest of you. the link is here :

 

http://www.tomsgames.com/us/2007/03/26/ ... e_exposed/

 

 

 

for those of you who do not trust links, it says...

 

 

 

The owners of RuneScape, Jagex Limited, portray the popular massive multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) as a fun pastime for gamers - more than that, they claim that it is "educational." It does have some positive learning aspects, but players also get a broad education in the negative aspects of online gaming, including cheating, scamming, lying, taunting, bullying, gambling and addiction.

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, some of these activities happen to one extent or another in all online games. But RuneScape is child-oriented, with some players as young as five online. The reputation of the game is that it is safe for kids, but they are in fact exposed to all sorts of very negative influences without them, or their parents, realizing it. So what are our children learning on RuneScape? And what is Jagex doing - or not doing - about it?

 

 

 

In the first part of this two-part series, I take a look at the game and describe what its community is really like. Starting with a brief overview of RuneScape, I concentrate mainly on discussing what players experience, the many dangers for children who play and the impact that this can have on young minds. I write as both an avid player and the parent of two children who play - and as one of many active, involved adults who has tried to little avail to get Jagex to clean RuneScape up.

 

 

 

I realize that some might wonder what the big deal is. After all, it's just a game, isn't it? Well, no, it isn't: players of online games invest many hours of time and energy and they take them very seriously. Consider that football is also "just a game", but fans can get so passionate about them that violence results, despite only watching games on TV. Here, the gamers are actually immersed in the environment, and most are young and impressionable.

 

 

 

I've seen first-hand the impact on children who have been betrayed, cheated, verbally abused or killed by another player - the negative consequences can have a lasting impact. Players and parents of players alike need to take these issues seriously.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

one of the quotes from the article that really stimmied me was this

But RuneScape is child-oriented, with some players as young as five online.

 

now, correct me if i'm wrong, but RuneScape has an age restriction of 13+. why the heck are kids as young as 5 playing?!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

anyways, just let me know what you think of this, and if this has already been posted on the forums somewhere, please lock this :)

[syal_antilli]

wow, kids as young as 5 shouldn't even be able to type, where did they get that from?

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Seems like this editor took one extreme and ran with it. Seriously, he needs to learn to look on the bright side.

 

 

 

Jagex can't be held responsible for kids that get to their site somehow. That's the parent's responsibility. Kinda wish people would stop pinning it on Jagex. It isn't like they can install a filter on everyone's computer...

[qeltar]

I'm the author of that article (and another in the same series.) They were both discussed months ago here (and in other places), though I guess we could do it again. :lol:

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=634393

 

 

 

~q

[icecube]

Kids under 13 can play with a guardian's permission.

[reaper88888]

 

 

 

Sure, some of these activities happen to one extent or another in all online games. But RuneScape is child-oriented, with some players as young as five online. The reputation of the game is that it is safe for kids, but they are in fact exposed to all sorts of very negative influences without them, or their parents, realizing it. So what are our children learning on RuneScape? And what is Jagex doing - or not doing - about it?

 

 

 

In the first part of this two-part series, I take a look at the game and describe what its community is really like. Starting with a brief overview of RuneScape, I concentrate mainly on discussing what players experience, the many dangers for children who play and the impact that this can have on young minds. I write as both an avid player and the parent of two children who play - and as one of many active, involved adults who has tried to little avail to get Jagex to clean RuneScape up.

 

 

 

I realize that some might wonder what the big deal is. After all, it's just a game, isn't it? Well, no, it isn't: players of online games invest many hours of time and energy and they take them very seriously. Consider that football is also "just a game", but fans can get so passionate about them that violence results, despite only watching games on TV. Here, the gamers are actually immersed in the environment, and most are young and impressionable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol: :lol: Nice find..

 

 

 

Looks like some Wikidiot needs to do their research...

 

 

 

This is all I have to say tbh:

 

 

 

!Attention Parents!:If you don't like the game, don't let your kids play(Illegally)!

 

 

 

Kinda sad, isn't it? Parents these days don't want to take responsibility; it's easier to blame the favorite demons of all the world's 'Committees of Concerned Mothers/Fathers', Rock and video games...

[The Observer]

5 year olds don't have to brain capacity to properly play MMORPGS. They don't have the ability to set goals, they can't do quests, etc. I don't know where they got that statistic. :?

[reaper88888]

Well, it DOES appear to be from wiki, so chances are the statistics were invented by some moron, but by what I've seen ingame, the bit about 5 year olds playing rs might not be too far from the truth..

[Chazimcgee]

RuneScape can be as educational as you can make it. The age limit is 13 but children under 13 afre allowed to play with guardians permission.

 

 

 

The internet is a place where you can express opinions and RuneScape is a meduim which you can use that power. People abuse this because there are no physical damaging consequences therefore you get scammers which makes learning on RuneScape tougher but on the other hand it could be a steep learning curve for kids.

 

 

 

Good article but as a player i think that RuneScape has taught me many things.

 

 

 

 

 

Wooo! 400th post :P

[Triforceelf]

5 year olds don't have to brain capacity to properly play MMORPGS. They don't have the ability to set goals, they can't do quests, etc. I don't know where they got that statistic. :?

 

 

 

As someone who works with kindergardeners on a regular basis, I heartily disagree with you. These kids are perfectly capable of setting goals and achieveing them, though they usually have to be short term. They are also fairly good at online games, I had a cousin who when she was five was able to consistently get at least 20 kills in a 50 kill UT 2003 match*. Now by no means was she winning, but she understood the game and was able to manipulate its controls to her benefit. (*I neither endorse nor approve of children playing M rated games.)

 

 

 

Another bullet in your claim is that I have actually met children in that age range who PLAY RUNESCAPE. Now the one I know who was the most successful at it was admittedly 6 1/2 so he was not a five year old. However, he was able to chat online with me (and me and one other friend only, his parents knew me very well, the other person was a friend around his age) fairly coherently for a child of his age. His parents supervised his game play, allowed only a 1/2 hour of game play a day and kept his pubic/private/trade chat to friends only. If done properly runescape COULD (maybe, probably not) be benifitial to a child. But there are much more benifical things they could do and for that matter most parents let their children play games for far too long.

[qeltar]

Thanks, Triforceelf.

 

 

 

Tell me, folks.. if tobacco companies deliberately advertised to children, made it possible for children to smoke in schools, sold books to help kids start smoking, and made free cigarettes available to kids, would they share any blame for kids becoming smokers, or would it only fall on the parents?

[MooseHole]

My 7 year old daughter plays runescape. She keeps telling me how she kicked [wagon] at that sheep shearing quest.

[ego_scorpion]

I have to agree, I notice a tendancy lately to somehow magically take the blame off of the parents and blame anyone and anything but.

 

 

 

The other day I was talking to some kid in game who was planning to pretend to be sick, not to go to school in order to play runescape.

 

 

 

Uh... there is definately somethign seriously wrong with that picture and the parents are the ones responsbile for extremely poor parenting.

[dwarfie76]

Tell me, folks.. if tobacco companies deliberately advertised to children, made it possible for children to smoke in schools, sold books to help kids start smoking, and made free cigarettes available to kids, would they share any blame for kids becoming smokers, or would it only fall on the parents?

 

 

 

The responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of the parents. Don't like the fact that your kids are your responsibility... that's easy, keep your zipper done up.

 

 

 

A tobacco company could 'advertise to children' - it's still my responsibility to my children to monitor the television they watch, and - should they see an advertisement for something I disapprove of, educate them as to why its not a good idea.

 

 

 

I'm not really sure how you think a tobacco company could "make it possible" to smoke in schools. Whether or not smoking is allowed in a school or not should be an issue for the school... last time I checked, the tobacco companies didn't own any schools, but if they did, and they allowed smoking in them, then it's still my right and responsibility as a parent to find out about the smoking policy of a school before I decide whether or not to send my children there.

 

 

 

Likewise with the books and free cigarettes, what my children obtain is my responsibility to filter - not the tobacco companies, not the government, not the community. Any prospective parent who feel that anyone but themselves should bear any responsibility for the upbringing of their children other than themselves and their partner needs to make an appointment with a vasectomy clinic right away.

 

 

 

- Father of two very happy, well adjusted children who enjoy sitting on dad's knee watching him carve up a dragon or two before bedtime.

[Sbrideau]

I have to agree, I notice a tendancy lately to somehow magically take the blame off of the parents and blame anyone and anything but.

 

 

 

The other day I was talking to some kid in game who was planning to pretend to be sick, not to go to school in order to play runescape.

 

 

 

Uh... there is definately somethign seriously wrong with that picture and the parents are the ones responsbile for extremely poor parenting.

 

 

 

+1

 

 

 

Also, RuneScape was made for adults in the beginning, though now they just take ideas from the RSOF and make everything easier

[Bobbington]

Personally i still think the Internet and gaming as a whole is too new to be judged as far as who can do what.

 

 

 

I have some adult friends in this game who do get their children to play (and yes.... they are actually 5 years old :P), it's an aspect of the terms and conditions often misunderstood.

 

 

 

A SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT PRETEENS AND USERS UNDER 18

 

If you are under 13 years old, you must not create an account. We don't knowingly permit anyone under 13 to use this website. Nor do we knowingly collect any personally identifiable information from preteens. Internet safety experts have advised that preteens do not fully appreciate the risk of providing too much personal information online or communicating with strangers they encounter online. And the game difficulty level is for teenagers and older. While we appreciate that many preteens would want to use our websites, we urge parents to instruct their children not to lie about their age so as to be able to use our websites before they are old enough. Instead, we recommend that parents set up an account and play together with their preteens who are otherwise too young to play the Game. Many parents have reported that playing the Game as a family is fun and rewarding. Then when your children are 13 they will be ready for their own account.

 

 

 

Basically a person under the age of 13 cannot legally own an account (this is legal reasons not just Jagex having rules) but they can still play WITH a parent, it must be the Adults account, and the adult pressing the buttons..... but the child can be there helping and directing.

 

 

 

I know my friend finds it a good way of bonding with his dad, and in fact even though he is only 5..... was apparently very helpful on knowing what to do in some master quests.

 

 

 

I personally think for the majority of people online gaming is a positive thing in their life, not so much short term.... but long term. It teaches us allot.... for me it made a massive improvement on my ability to read write type and spell (I'm dyslexic). There are some people who cannot deal with the game, and it begins to take over their life.... obviously this is an issue but I personally would place this blame on the parents and their social environment, not Jagex. At one point.... my life was pretty bad and I was in the situation where I played far too much.... but this was not the fault of the game.... If it was not this game I would have done exactly the same somewhere else.... the fact is I was unable to deal with life effectively due to my real world surroundings.

 

 

 

There are two types of game, single player and multiplayer. It is my view that multiplayer games can offer huge life long changes to who a person is.... and on the whole it would be for the better. This game allows people to learn social skills, it's and odd way to look at it, but this game is educational.... not in knowledge but life.

 

 

 

Of course thats one sided, we have the abusive members of the community who's presence can cause real long term damage to the individuals playing if they cannot correctly process what they are experiencing. You can look at being scammed two ways....

 

 

 

"Humanity sucks.... I hate you all"

 

 

 

"darn... lets not do that again!"

 

 

 

Which path we follow is very important as to how the game effects you, but again I would bring this back to upbringing as to how a person reacts.

 

 

 

I feel everything can relate to how a person was brought up, on the whole for most people an online game should be a perspective effect on life, but we cant take this for gaunted

[qeltar]

 

The responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of the parents. Don't like the fact that your kids are your responsibility... that's easy, keep your zipper done up.

 

 

Well, I'm glad that you have the ability to boil things down in your mind to such black-and-white absolutes. Out here in the real world, it's not so simple.

 

 

 

Responsibility rests on my shoulders, but that does not absolve others from their responsibilities. A company that makes a product intended for those over 13 should not be both marketing it towards children under 13 *and* turning a blind eye when they know very well that thousands upon thousands of kids under 13 play their game.

 

 

A tobacco company could 'advertise to children' - it's still my responsibility to my children to monitor the television they watch, and - should they see an advertisement for something I disapprove of, educate them as to why its not a good idea.

 

 

Oh, but you see -- they can't. There are laws against it in just about every modern country, including yours. (Yes, I get the musical reference. ;) )

 

 

I'm not really sure how you think a tobacco company could "make it possible" to smoke in schools. Whether or not smoking is allowed in a school or not should be an issue for the school... last time I checked, the tobacco companies didn't own any schools, but if they did, and they allowed smoking in them, then it's still my right and responsibility as a parent to find out about the smoking policy of a school before I decide whether or not to send my children there.

 

 

It was an analogy, because Jagex does all of the things I mentioned.

 

 

Likewise with the books and free cigarettes, what my children obtain is my responsibility to filter - not the tobacco companies, not the government, not the community.

 

 

Your silly vasectomy rhetoric notwithstanding, you're going to discover sooner, if not later, that you cannot be there to watch your kids and what they do 100% of the time.

 

 

 

~q

[Giant_Torti]

I've just read the ten pages of the article on that site and to be honest it I feel it paints a very biased view against the game and Jagex.

 

 

 

The first sentence in the opening paragraph is the key one however:-

 

 

 

RuneScape is a multiplayer fantasy adventure game that offers a breadth of different activities for players.

 

 

 

Its a fantasy, a pixellated illusion of a mythical land that exists solely in domain of Jagexs servers and the players that choose to play it.

 

 

 

If a player, of any age, cannot discern what they are getting involved in is purely for amusement and role play, I feel that this is more an issue for the player or in the case of a child the parent.

 

 

 

Also I feel that the comment,

 

 

 

Female players in RuneScape are subjected to nearly continuous harassment by the testosterone-overloaded teenaged hornballs who comprise the bulk of the game's players.

 

 

 

is just a tad overstated. I've seen avatars of both sexes solicit and attempt to solicit for rule breaking relationships, but unless you know the person sitting at the screen doing the rule breaking I think the charge of being a 'hornball' is bordering against a slur to anyone thats aged 13 to 19.

 

 

 

Here are two of the more noteworthy entries:

 

 

 

* "lol nub i gawet scammed 5.4m but i aint cryin so stfu"

 

* "ha you lost stuff!!! lmao noob in your face"

 

 

 

 

Without screenshots, it didn't happen. Of course I'm not saying there is no scamming and that all trades are 100% legit, but I think a screenshot would have upped the credibility factor of the article.

 

 

 

"Just what kids need to learn about how to deal with others."

 

 

 

Parents responsibility. Are you suggesting that for 5 bucks a month or however much it costs depending on method and locality, that this becomes the duty of Jagex?

 

 

 

"Another skill in the game is thieving, which pretty much speaks for itself. If you get attacked by a guard when thieving, you just kill him. In addition the "usual" methods like pick pocketing and stealing from market stalls, you can hit townsfolk over the head with a stick to knock them out before robbing them."

 

 

 

So there was no thieving and mugging before Jagex rolled out Runescape?

 

Sheesh its a game for crying out loud.

 

 

 

What next, there responsible for alcoholism because theres beer and for members, cocktails in the game?

 

 

 

Sorry if I come across as overly sarcastic, but the dialogue in this preview is fairly hard hitting, so I'm guessing that the author can keep 'there end of the log' spinning as it were.

 

 

 

Ultimately, its a game and yes while there is probably a measurable minority of jerks that want to gain enjoyment out of making other players time a miserable experience, there just that, a minority of jerks.

 

 

 

I don't think that Jagex will ever completely get rid of the 'jerk factor' but I feel that the over riding majority of players of different abilities, personalities, ambitions and opinions can collectively work together to encourage and foster a air of genuine friendliness, the 'jerk factor' will minimised, which can only be a good thing for all of us.

 

 

 

(ps this doesn't mean I'm going to empty my bank to the next guy that asks for free stuff, but if you want advice on how to get the shiny stuff, I'll point you to the very useful AoW)

 

 

 

I think the whole preview paints a very bleak picture of what is actually a fun and interesting pastime for many, its almost as if the writer is trying to say the only way to enjoy the game is to scam, harass, cheat and PK everything that sets foot over the 'trench of doom'.

[Mr_Adam]

Wikipedia can be edited by anybody... I could go on now and say in extremely bold type...

 

 

 

 

 

[hide=Warning. Dramatic Reinactment of Noobiness Inside. Open At Own Risk.]z0MG WHY THE [CABBAGE] ARE YOU READING ABOUT A GAME FOR 5 YEAR OLDS?!?!?!?!!!111 GET A LIFE IF YOU'RE OVER 12 J33Z!!!11 I'LL PWN Y0UR SK1NNY LITTLE [CABBAGE] 'CUZ i'M MORE L337 THAN YOU'RE MOTHER EVER EVEN DR3AMED YOU'D BECOME!!!1

 

 

 

z0MG YOU SUCKWAD I JUST GAVE YOU SPYWARE!!!111!111111[/hide]

 

 

 

See my Point, I hope? Because that was a lot of caps lock on...

[qeltar]

 

Basically a person under the age of 13 cannot legally own an account (this is legal reasons not just Jagex having rules) but they can still play WITH a parent, it must be the Adults account, and the adult pressing the buttons..... but the child can be there helping and directing.

 

 

First of all, what you just said is incorrect. A person under 13 cannot make a NEW account, but there are thousands and thousands of accounts that were made by under-13's before Jagex put in that relatively recent rule. Many of the players of those accounts are still under 13, and Jagex has never made any attempt to claim that they were "illegal" or in fact said anything about them at all.

 

 

 

Second, if Jagex only wants those over 13 to create accounts, then why do they market the game to elementary school students?

 

 

 

Edit: insertmynamehere, this isn't on Wikipedia. I wrote the article.

[sycosis5]

5 year olds that can type,navigate and understand RuneScape :shock: :shock: NASA NEEDS THOSE 5 YEAR OLDS!!!

[MooseHole]

why do they market the game to elementary school students?

I saw a RuneScape "manual" at a book fair at my daughter's school. The next day, she said she saw kids reading it on the bus. She told them, "Hey, I play that game!" They were like, "Woah, they have a game of this?"

[qeltar]

why do they market the game to elementary school students?

I saw a RuneScape "manual" at a book fair at my daughter's school. The next day, she said she saw kids reading it on the bus. She told them, "Hey, I play that game!" They were like, "Woah, they have a game of this?"

 

 

 

Ding! We have a winner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was Jagex's decision to commission, participate in the writing of, and market this book to children that partially prompted me to write that article. (Part of it was also the company's abominable "luring is okay" decision in February, which they backtracked on mere days after my article went up.)

 

 

 

Jagex actually has made some strides in the 7 or 8 months since the first article was written, but they have a long way to go.

[Aidos Drakon]

I'm the author of that article (and another in the same series.) They were both discussed months ago here (and in other places), though I guess we could do it again. :lol:

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=634393

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

If your so worried over the harmful effects of Runescape, please leave us in peace. Also do research before making up false statistics.

[ekim]

Thanks, Triforceelf.

 

 

 

Tell me, folks.. if tobacco companies deliberately advertised to children, made it possible for children to smoke in schools, sold books to help kids start smoking, and made free cigarettes available to kids, would they share any blame for kids becoming smokers, or would it only fall on the parents?

 

 

 

There is no point debating such topics here.

 

 

 

The vast majority of Humans are unable to think in scientific terms. Instead they are trained to think only in emotional terms. This applies to scientists as well as laymen, unfortunately, and that is why sensitive topics are always colored by propaganda. That is why the burden of proof always falls on those who question propaganda. That is why such propaganda will be defended with the fanaticism of religious dogma. (edit: see that bigm person above - personal attack against the author as the only basis to defend his truth)

 

 

 

Friedrich Nietzsche once said, ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åfaith means not wanting to know what is true,ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ