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Grand Exchange: Your thoughts?


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#41
WolfhunterXZ
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#2: The collapsing stage



The next logical step in trying to sell your goods just a bit cheaper than everybody else. But once again, lets not forget that all this is happening on the very large scale. Assuming that there is more than one intelligent person in this game most of the people will want to sell their supplys quick and thus will all try to undercut each other.



I anticipate same thing happening with armor, weapons, treassure trail items, and just about everything. When the market is flooded the only logical outcome is the collapse of prices.




No, the only logical outcome is that the prices go to what the balance of supply and demand dictates. For something like yew logs, the market is already working fairly fluidly, it's already easy to find buyers and sellers for yews. For something like TT items, it can take a long time to find a buyer, which is why you hear a lot of ppl say they're going to put theirTT items up when the Grand Exchange hits. Lowering the transactional cost will have an effect on items that had a relatively high transactional cost before, but your analysis treats the issue like the marketplace for all categories of items was basically nonfunctional, which is pretty naive.





#3: The broken backbone

The last stage of the collapse is the collapse of the rare market, the backbone of the economy. All those merchants holding on to their hats, when they see how low the prices on everything are dropping will anturaly want to buy it all out and anticipate the prices to go up. Or simply buy it out and save it for skilling. However, where does one get the cash necessary for such purchases? Thats where rares come in. In hopes of buying things out and reselling for extreme profit later on or simply to use people will begin unloading their rares, which ofcourse will suffer from the very same price flood and in turn collapse.




How is the rare market the backbone of the economy? If every discontinued item were made nontradeable tomorrow, it would have zero effect on how I play the game. Of course the forums would be filled with people saying that the RS economy was dead, but that happens with every other update already. Jagex leaves rares in the game because some people enjoy trading them or having them as a goal, and they don't want to anger subscribers if it's not necessary. That doesn't make rares the backbone of anything, or important. (don't even go to the rares prevent inflation argument, a 2nd grader can see that's absurd)



I'll provide an analogy. Rares are collectible, in limited supply, and valuable. Kinda like... 1987 Fleer edition baseball cards are in the real world. Does that make baseball cards the backbone of the economy? Backbone implies structural function, do you know what part of the body is collectible, limited supply, and valuable? It's not the backbone, it's artificially overpriced diamond earrings. Not a perfect analogy though, diamonds have practical uses and are much prettier than RS rares. I'm not trying to flame you, I think merchanting is the most interesting (theoretically speaking) part of RS, although I don't do it very much in practice, and I respect your merchanting ability. But why claim rares are the backbone of the economy, without even offering a reason?



Your point about monopolies using the Grand Exchange is true, but it was already possible and there are drawbacks to the GE for monopolists also. Transactional cost being lower means it's easier for the monopolists to do more trades and impact the market more, but the GE will likely have many more participants than the RSOF which means it won't save the monopolists any more time and could dilute their impact.


+1



Except everything about the monopolies is incorrect, especially about the rares. Why? Because 1) There is always going to be other players with the rares. And 2) These rares all have substitutes. The only way that those players could become a monopolistic rare selling 'company' is if they bought every single rare, of every single type. And they were the only players who had rares, then they hold the entire rare market, making them all a monopoly, because there are no more substitute type of items (The other kinds of rares), nor is there anyone else in the whole game who has a rares. That's the only way they could truly be a monopoly.



As for everything else, I agree with you Flammacor.



As for other people saying that the rares ARE the backbone of the society, you are incorrect in your notion. The Economy would not collapse if rares were punted out of the game. Why? Because an economy cannoy be supported by simply one type of buyers and sellers. If they left, then the economy would still run, there's other important markets to sell to. So stop saying Rares are the backbone of the Runescape economy, because it's not true in the slightest. (Well, it would piss people off a great deal, but the economy wouldn't crash!) So until you take some kind of College Intro to Economics, shut up about the rares being the backbone of the rs economy, it's annoying me.
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#42
jessy87
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Treassure trail items and rare drops from monsters can infact be monopolized to an extent and their prices can in fact be manipulated.


There's virtually nothing in the game that is important enough or in short enough supply that it can be monopolized to any meaningful extent. And anyone who tries to do so will be taking very large risks.






their was a group a few years ago that tried monopolizing half wines, it worked it was like 60m ea and i believe r2 bought a majority of his 66 for 22m ea

#43
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Treassure trail items and rare drops from monsters can infact be monopolized to an extent and their prices can in fact be manipulated.


There's virtually nothing in the game that is important enough or in short enough supply that it can be monopolized to any meaningful extent. And anyone who tries to do so will be taking very large risks.



Think about all the people who lose money by sinking millions into exploits that Jagex later closes. Remember all the people buying maple longs to sell to stores that one day changed?



The price elasticity of demand of most things in Runescape is relatively high. If you or someone else tries to buy up all of something like treasure trail items, you will very soon find yourself sitting on a pile of items nobody wants, and you will lose money to get rid of them.




I never used an exploit or cheated so no I wouldnt know. However, I did do one thing to make millions, and I will give an example here, same principle.



3 years ago, prior to my quitting, I had a friend, unleash1, who was richer than me by quite a bit. I also had about 20-30 merchant friends who dindt have quite as much, but enough.



We would then all agree to buy a party hat of a specific color. Well, we would publically start buying them to create demand. Not lying about buying them or pretending to buy them, but actualy buying them. When we would buy sufficient amount we would then start slowly selling them at higher and higher prices until the price collapsed.



Same principle. If there is 50 robins up for sale guess what, they can be bought out and then placed for sale for 5mil for example. Any additional robins that go up for sale for less than that can be bought out and placed for 5 mil.



If the only robins in exchange are controled by you or your assosciates and are all up there for same price then eventualy people who want a robin will have to start buying at said price. Reason that is possible because you cant just go and make more robins, you have to get a clue, do the clue, and then hope you get 1 from it, that was my point.



With rares, its even easier, since there is a limited supply. Enough rich people working together can infact alter the price of rares and drive htem down or up. I have played world of warcraft and seen it done on a smaller scale (1 server) not 140 servers at the same time, where the effect can be even greater.
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#44
Solidus_77
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Solidus_77, im not going to quote your long post ill just answer you this.




that only makes it harder for you to disprove my economic analysis backing up my answer



It is very much possible to have a monopoly. Obviously, you cant have monopoly on air runes,, or nature runes, just not gonna happen, however... consider the rate at which some items are introduced to hte game.




Ok, it's time for some definition. MONOPOLY. noun. It means ONLY ONE seller. If items are even introduced into the game at all, it creates a second seller therefore the person does not have a monopoly over the market.



Treassure trail items and rare drops from monsters can infact be monopolized to an extent and their prices can in fact be manipulated.




From the moment the item enters the game, the attempts to corner the market are hurt. There are also numerous other problems linked to such attempts explained by some other posters above.



When the exchange comes out ill actualy do it to prove it :)




You'll find it impossible to prove that let alone succeed
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#45
ego_scorpion
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Solidus_77, im not going to quote your long post ill just answer you this.




that only makes it harder for you to disprove my economic analysis backing up my answer



It is very much possible to have a monopoly. Obviously, you cant have monopoly on air runes,, or nature runes, just not gonna happen, however... consider the rate at which some items are introduced to hte game.




Ok, it's time for some definition. MONOPOLY. noun. It means ONLY ONE seller. If items are even introduced into the game at all, it creates a second seller therefore the person does not have a monopoly over the market.



Treassure trail items and rare drops from monsters can infact be monopolized to an extent and their prices can in fact be manipulated.




From the moment the item enters the game, the attempts to corner the market are hurt. There are also numerous other problems linked to such attempts explained by some other posters above.



When the exchange comes out ill actualy do it to prove it :)




You'll find it impossible to prove that let alone succeed




3 years ago, I dont know if you played or not, unleash and I took blue party hats, and incraed their prices to 3x the value, making millions. I still have a screen shot from back then in the blogscope -> rate this, containing all the rares.



You can say that I will fail, I dont care, I am not looking for followers are people to belive me, my bank speaks for itself, what I am capable of atleast.



I will say this though, I should have been more clear to how I used monopoly. Perhaps, not being the only one, but having most of something. I gave example with robins how you could have multiple people working together, constantly scanning the exchange, buying out all the robins that are up for lower than they sell for and hten putting them back up.
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#46
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If there is 50 robins up for sale guess what, they can be bought out and then placed for sale for 5mil for example. Any additional robins that go up for sale for less than that can be bought out and placed for 5 mil.


Doesn't work that way.



Everyone will be watching what happens. As soon as it is clear that someone is buying up all of something, guess what happens? The next ones will be listed for 6, or 7 or 10 million. You're going to have to buy those too. And keep buying as the price goes up.



Only the GE means that EVERYONE has access to an easy way of selling. So you will have to buy far more than would be necessary now.



The GE means a broader market and that is much harder to manipulate than a thin market. In effect, the GE is going to make the sort of abuses you describe more difficult, not less.

If the only robins in exchange are controled by you or your assosciates and are all up there for same price then eventualy people who want a robin will have to start buying at said price.


You can't buy them all, because there are too many around, and any attempt to corner the market causes prices to dramatically increase, putting you at a huge risk of loss. Real-world examples already given.

With rares, its even easier, since there is a limited supply. Enough rich people working together can infact alter the price of rares and drive htem down or up. I have played world of warcraft and seen it done on a smaller scale (1 server) not 140 servers at the same time, where the effect can be even greater.




You don't understand a fundamental point, which is that thin markets are easier to abuse than broad ones. The GE is going to greatly broaden and "open up" the market (in terms of visibility), making it far more difficult to pull those sorts of stunts.
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#47
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The rare market isn't the backbone of our economy. It's a part of it, but it isn't an absolutely vital part to it. The only purposes that rares serve is to hold wealth and show off wealth. For myself, I could do without such a luxury, and so could tens of thousands of other players.



Now, the raw material market (fish, ore, bars, wood, feathers) – those can be perceived as the backbone, since players will actually use those [or the derivative of their finished product] at one point in their game career. A partyhat only either sits in the bank or is worn on the head. Not used in combat situations or used to level as you would use 80,000 Maples for firemaking (although it's inferred that a partyhat provides the funds for most leveling. That's true, but it's not like you buy a partyhat to level a certain skill with anyway). Besides, there's only so much money that a player can hold at once. With literally the entire RuneScape community at the trading forefront (instead of 2,000), it's impossible to buy out every tradegood and/or rare. Doing so would not only be fruitless, it would leave you bankrupted for a good while, until you made use of those goods you had.



Monopolization of any good in RuneScape is impossible. For the first matter, 99% of the goods in the game can be easily be reharvested or reacquired – this includes things like a normal log to a Dragon Helmet. Granted, there are limited supplies of items in the game, but that is not to say that they are constrained by only those numbers. In the only arena that a monopoly could ever be conducted, the rares market, Jagex would almost certainly intervene. One player trying to corner the rares market would mean that rares shoot up to an astronomical price (easily over 1B), and as such, no player with a reasonable amount of wealth could repurchase or resell one of these. Even if they were to succeed, Jagex would intervene in the manner of suspending/banning that player (or players). Directly influencing the economy in such a large scale effort is seen as a violation of Rule 2.



By the way, monopoly comes from Latin, meaning “one – manyâ€ÂÂ

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#48
ho3f3l
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sry for no quotes



about u saying that every seller is going to put is items for less then everyone else wont be true for everyone.



if GE work as i expect that will be, ill just put my items for my price and leave them there, eventually some1 will buy.



lets talk about nat runes for exemple, time is money and before GE i would post on foruns and would go to world 2, and probably if almost all sellers there were selling for 300, i would sell for 295 np cous i would hate to lose lots of time to sell them all at 300, but with GE i would put them all at 300 there and go make more or level other skill, im not a very wealthy player like some are, but i can continue going on, buying the items i need to level and so on. And with GE i can put alot more items for sale that i didnt sold before thinking to be a waste of time, now all i need to do is put there at their prices and continue, if they r not sold well i will continue as i am...



since i cant (yet :P) predict the future i dont know what other players will do with theirs goods, you say that everyone will sell cheaper to get money faster, but will they? u say all gatherers will lower to sell faster, to me that would be true before GE, after why wouldnt they just put there at their prices and gather more?



u said



"Oh well, just my thoughts, please refrain from flaming in this thread"



and u want ppl to coment and discuss ur thoughts but i think u lose all ur points when qeltar put is thoughts here, they were about the same issue, just another point of view and u reply



"You are aruging about something you know nothing about and talking about rares when you dont have any. My theory is my theory, you do whatever you want in preparation for the great exchange, this thread was intended for intelligent people to discuss what they plan to do in anticipation."



to me the one that isnt intelligent is YOU, of course u have ur theory, ur experience and so on, but when u open a topic to be discussed, u have to be ready to read posts going against you (with their theorys), and if u dont want flames, u shouldnt start flaming ppl...



and sry about my language errors (probably i did alot :oops: ), english is not my language, but i make a efort to do my best since this is a english language based forum.

#49
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If there is 50 robins up for sale guess what, they can be bought out and then placed for sale for 5mil for example. Any additional robins that go up for sale for less than that can be bought out and placed for 5 mil.


Doesn't work that way.



Everyone will be watching what happens. As soon as it is clear that someone is buying up all of something, guess what happens? The next ones will be listed for 6, or 7 or 10 million. You're going to have to buy those too. And keep buying as the price goes up.




I guess my point is I think and operate different from you. The second I will see one for 6, 7, or 10 mil is the second that I will put all mine up for 5.5 and having bought them for 3.5 ea will make 2mil profit on each one and move on to the next item.



I am just giving rough examples here, if you wonna pick and chew every word I said then do as you please.
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#50
ego_scorpion
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u said



"Oh well, just my thoughts, please refrain from flaming in this thread"



and u want ppl to coment and discuss ur thoughts but i think u lose all ur points when qeltar put is thoughts here, they were about the same issue, just another point of view and u reply



"You are aruging about something you know nothing about and talking about rares when you dont have any. My theory is my theory, you do whatever you want in preparation for the great exchange, this thread was intended for intelligent people to discuss what they plan to do in anticipation."


WoW, after htis I dont even know what to say.

My arument from qeltar is an ongoing one from a different thread. I called his bluff and am responding under that assumption so to me the there isnt much validity to what he says until he proves what he said initiality in the other thread, that is, owning a rare.



Also, its "you" not "u", those abbreviations is what makes one look... unintelligent.



They are presenting their theories, I am presenting mine. But I dont accept things for what they are, I also look at why would one post what he or she does.



For example, duke freedom has personal vendetta against me so anything he says is hypocritical nonsence, he accused me of cheating long ago ... we all know how that turned out.



qeltar has it out for merchants, so what he is posting is also biased and directed against me.



Bottom line is like I said I dont plan to do anything, I am 100% self sufficient. If I wanted to prove a point sure, I could sell a phat set for 2 billion and start trying to control a scare resource, aka items that cant be freely introduced into the game and that have a fairly low supply vs demand.
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#51
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My arument from qeltar is an ongoing one from a different thread. I called his bluff and am responding under that assumption so to me the there isnt much validity to what he says until he proves what he said initiality in the other thread, that is, owning a rare.


I have never once said I owned a rare.



Reading comprehension is your friend.



I don't need rares to establish my credentials to discuss this subject. I have real world credentials (no, you don't want to know what they are) and my arguments stand on their own merits.



Now, back to the subject. If you think you can use this system to manipulate the market, my guess is that you will be in for a rather rude awakening. It will be VERY easy for Jagex to check for these things and take appropriate action against abusers. If you're as smart as you seem to think you are, you'd stop talking about it on an open forum.
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#52
ego_scorpion
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My arument from qeltar is an ongoing one from a different thread. I called his bluff and am responding under that assumption so to me the there isnt much validity to what he says until he proves what he said initiality in the other thread, that is, owning a rare.


I have never once said I owned a rare.



Reading comprehension is your friend.



I don't need rares to establish my credentials to discuss this subject. I have real world credentials (no, you don't want to know what they are) and my arguments stand on their own merits.



Now, back to the subject. If you think you can use this system to manipulate the market, my guess is that you will be in for a rather rude awakening. It will be VERY easy for Jagex to check for these things and take appropriate action against abusers. If you're as smart as you seem to think you are, you'd stop talking about it on an open forum.




Actualy, you did say something about owning a rare or having enough for a rare or some remark to extent of your wealth and when I told you to prove it you backed out, made some excuse. Do I care to the extend of your wealth? not really, I just wanted to prove a point about you LYING.



And also, what do you think proves better knowledge of the games economy, vast wealth, or a big mouth aruging to death that someone is wrong and you are right?
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#53
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Actualy, you did say something about owning a rare or having enough for a rare or some remark to extent of your wealth and when I told you to prove it you backed out, made some excuse. Do I care to the extend of your wealth? not really, I just wanted to prove a point about you LYING.


It would seem to be rather difficult for you to prove that I am "lying" when you can't even accurately recall what I said.

And also, what do you think proves better knowledge of the games economy, vast wealth, or a big mouth aruging to death that someone is wrong and you are right?


As I said, I have far more relevant credentials than owning silly paper hats in an online game.



But as I also said, it's irrelevant. You seem to have a hangup about being oh-so-impressed with your own imaginary wealth, but what really matters is making intelligent arguments, and you've fallen rather short in that respect.
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#54
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3 years ago, I dont know if you played or not, unleash and I took blue party hats, and incraed their prices to 3x the value, making millions. I still have a screen shot from back then in the blogscope -> rate this, containing all the rares.




How is a bank screen shot going to prove that the act of buying blue partyhats tripled their value? And also from what value to what value?



You can say that I will fail, I dont care, I am not looking for followers are people to belive me, my bank speaks for itself, what I am capable of atleast.




In light of recent information, the only thing your bank can speak of is how effectively you were able to manipulate prices. Judging by your story, you didn't even understand that SOMETHING that you did or said had an effect on people which consequently affected prices.



Succeeding to manipulate prices in the past does not mean you will succeed in monopolizing a certain good.



I will say this though, I should have been more clear to how I used monopoly. Perhaps, not being the only one, but having most of something. I gave example with robins how you could have multiple people working together, constantly scanning the exchange, buying out all the robins that are up for lower than they sell for and hten putting them back up.




Monopolies have nothing to do with organized attempts to manipulate the price. Getting a group of people together and all deciding to form a cartel is, as duke freedom stated, against the rules.



And also, what do you think proves better knowledge of the games economy, vast wealth, or a big mouth aruging to death that someone is wrong and you are right?




Through your various contradictions, baseless speculations, crack theories (not to mention you not understanding what a monopoly is), you have effectively proven and clearly demonstrate that vast wealth does not imply a better knowledge of the games economy.
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#55
ego_scorpion
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Actualy, you did say something about owning a rare or having enough for a rare or some remark to extent of your wealth and when I told you to prove it you backed out, made some excuse. Do I care to the extend of your wealth? not really, I just wanted to prove a point about you LYING.


It would seem to be rather difficult for you to prove that I am "lying" when you can't even accurately recall what I said.

And also, what do you think proves better knowledge of the games economy, vast wealth, or a big mouth aruging to death that someone is wrong and you are right?


As I said, I have far more relevant credentials than owning silly paper hats in an online game.



But as I also said, it's irrelevant. You seem to have a hangup about being oh-so-impressed with your own imaginary wealth, but what really matters is making intelligent arguments, and you've fallen rather short in that respect.




The responses you get are the ones you dserve. I can actualy look through the threads and find the post where I quoted you, but why bother. You said something along the lines of dont assume to know about how much I have this or that so I simply said, prove it and you started making excuses not to. That makes you in my eyes a liar, until you prove it.



Does having rares give me more cridentials? Yes, in a sence that it shows that i know enough to make the $ in the first place to buy them.



You can disagree with my theory of what may happen to your hearts content, I dont really care. Whatever happens I will make best of it.



I cant help but notice the condensending way you talk about game $ as opposed to you are somehow better... we are talking about game and game $ here.



Lastly, I would like to thank you for your time and making my day at work go by that much more quicker. Feel free to message me in game to continue this discussion or ask me for some $ \<img src=/' />
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#56
ego_scorpion
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3 years ago, I dont know if you played or not, unleash and I took blue party hats, and incraed their prices to 3x the value, making millions. I still have a screen shot from back then in the blogscope -> rate this, containing all the rares.




How is a bank screen shot going to prove that the act of buying blue partyhats tripled their value? And also from what value to what value?



You can say that I will fail, I dont care, I am not looking for followers are people to belive me, my bank speaks for itself, what I am capable of atleast.




In light of recent information, the only thing your bank can speak of is how effectively you were able to manipulate prices. Judging by your story, you didn't even understand that SOMETHING that you did or said had an effect on people which consequently affected prices.



Succeeding to manipulate prices in the past does not mean you will succeed in monopolizing a certain good.



I will say this though, I should have been more clear to how I used monopoly. Perhaps, not being the only one, but having most of something. I gave example with robins how you could have multiple people working together, constantly scanning the exchange, buying out all the robins that are up for lower than they sell for and hten putting them back up.




Monopolies have nothing to do with organized attempts to manipulate the price. Getting a group of people together and all deciding to form a cartel is, as duke freedom stated, against the rules.



And also, what do you think proves better knowledge of the games economy, vast wealth, or a big mouth aruging to death that someone is wrong and you are right?




Through your various contradictions, baseless speculations, crack theories (not to mention you not understanding what a monopoly is), you have effectively proven and clearly demonstrate that vast wealth does not imply a better knowledge of the games economy.




I dont remember the exact price before and after. And it wasnt manipulation perse. When you are rich and known amongst merchants you tend to be mimiced. If you use that to you radvantage with some coordination and simply buy and sell, without any false advertising or misrepresentation and make $ how exactly is that cheating?



If anything id assume real life trading is cheating.... eh?



Oh and as for the term monopoly, english isnt my first language, despite me knowing it fairly well. I chose a wrong term to describe my idea, which I think in theory can easily work, not because I came up with it, but because I have seen it work in other games.



What I posted about prices dropping is what I think will happen, you dont have to agree you are free to do what you want. You jumped into my argument with qeltar from the other thread, thats fine too. Like I said before, duke has a personal vendetta against me so he will do anything and say anything just to try to prove me wrong.
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#57
wakeborder42
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yes...markets will be flooded but in about a week prices will even out..isn't this kind of like in game live forum?



But I agree what you said on the topic and agree.
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#58
qeltar
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The responses you get are the ones you dserve. I can actualy look through the threads and find the post where I quoted you, but why bother. You said something along the lines of dont assume to know about how much I have this or that so I simply said, prove it and you started making excuses not to. That makes you in my eyes a liar, until you prove it.


You said I could never afford a rare and I said you had no way of knowing that because I never said what I do or don't have. Now you claim that I am a "liar" if I don't... prove you don't know what I have.



How exactly am I supposed to do THAT? :lol:

Does having rares give me more cridentials? Yes, in a sence that it shows that i know enough to make the $ in the first place to buy them.


For all anyone knows, you could have gotten them by a friend giving them to you, or by hacking other peoples' accounts.



Having a bunch of paper hats says nothing about someone's knowledge level. (Being unable to spell the word "sense" says a lot more.)

I cant help but notice the condensending way you talk about game $ as opposed to you are somehow better...


Money is a means to an end..in the case of a game, having fun. When accumulating more and more of it becomes the goal -- to amounts far beyond what could actually be used for playing -- then something is seriously wrong.



Real-world accomplishments are far more important than pixillated imaginary paper hats.



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#59
Makoto_the_Phoenix
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I dont remember the exact price before and after. And it wasnt manipulation perse. When you are rich and known amongst merchants you tend to be mimiced. If you use that to you radvantage with some coordination and simply buy and sell, without any false advertising or misrepresentation and make $ how exactly is that cheating?




Let me spell it it out for you: manipulation via propagation. Your influence had enough effect to the other merchants to have them do something similar to what you were doing, and it snowballed.



Oh and as for the term monopoly, english isnt my first language, despite me knowing it fairly well. I chose a wrong term to describe my idea, which I think in theory can easily work, not because I came up with it, but because I have seen it work in other games.




It's okay that English isn't your first language, but please, know the meaning of a word before you use it so liberally.

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#60
Solidus_77
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I dont remember the exact price before and after.




So you don't know what the value was before or after, all you know is that you made it increase? Is it even possible to be less credible than that? :roll:



And it wasnt manipulation perse. When you are rich and known amongst merchants you tend to be mimiced. If you use that to you radvantage with some coordination and simply buy and sell, without any false advertising or misrepresentation and make $ how exactly is that cheating?




Presenting an image in the hopes of misleading other people is a blatant form of price manipulation. You even confessed earlier about forming a group with your friends to control or manipulate the prices of robin hood hats, which is another obvious form of price manipulation.



If anything id assume real life trading is cheating.... eh?




This is your way of justifying price manipulation? :-s . Real life and runescape may have a lot in common economically, however the rules defined by society are very different. Besides, cartels are in fact illegal, and groups of people who get together and agree on prices are illegal.



Oh and as for the term monopoly, english isnt my first language, despite me knowing it fairly well. I chose a wrong term to describe my idea, which I think in theory can easily work, not because I came up with it, but because I have seen it work in other games.




I've said this too many times: Prove it.



What I posted about prices dropping is what I think will happen, you dont have to agree you are free to do what you want.




The fact still remains that they are invalid and baseless speculations and each time I demonstrated why. I will take my freedom to do what I want and what I want right now is to expose these theories for what they are worth.



You jumped into my argument with qeltar from the other thread, thats fine too.




If it is, why mention it?



Like I said before, duke has a personal vendetta against me so he will do anything and say anything just to try to prove me wrong.




My god, he might even use valid and coherent arguments or even possibly some explanations :o.



That aside, I despise when people use underhanded tactics in a debate like personal attacks or accusations instead of coming forth with better arguments. What you said right here points in that direction, and what you need to be doing is taking duke freedom's arguments point by point and explaining why he is wrong (if you can, that is).
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