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Apparently english isn't your first language either :roll: . I'm not talking about slave trading, I'm talking about giving a person to another family because they cannot raise them on their own. Are you saying adoption is wrong? Are you saying the entire country of India is wrong?!

 

 

 

Drop the act, you're not better than everyone else, every Christian isn't conceded and wrong, you're not righteous, and we're not all ignorant either.

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oh' o just got called arrogant oh' snap. oh' well i gues the arguements is being used up after some time. you should serios watch the video, just get divx then you can watch it as i am right now :lol: i am not arrogant i am just stating facts, you still havent given me any proof -.- :wall: and by knowing muslims i was stating i knew other religions and are not looking down just debating. and getting a translated version is easy. and you can have an scientific arguement against god. just wait till we get the big bang theory 100% proved(its about 97% proven atm).

 

 

 

 

 

show me a freaking poof of god existence

 

 

 

There is NO PROOF of an existence of a God(s).

 

 

 

And likewise, there is nothing to disprove the existence of a God either.

 

 

 

See what I'm getting at? A factless debate, which is an oxymoron in itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I'm sorry for having a misunderstanding, I thought you were referring to religious people as ignorant. The "God works in misterious ways" argument is flawed in the way that it is cryptic, but this was already explained.

 

 

 

no problem that happens when english is not you're first language.

 

 

 

English is my first language? What that an atempt at an insult? :|

 

 

 

 

 

And, you just proved my point that you are a flamer, not a debater. Instead of responding to my post on how we can't give you proof of God's existence, because there is none, and how it's the same for disproving God's existence, you insult me.

 

 

 

Hell, you don't know what your own belief is, someone had to attempt to help you clarify (but you simply did that so you'd have some little null point regardless).

 

 

 

Theological debates are not for you.

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Theological debates aren't for anyone, really. Due to the nature of theology itself.

 

 

 

EDIT: Argh, meant to post this earlier. Turns out you posted right before I did. :lol:

 

The Bible is supposed to be a "rigid moral code" - that cannot be the case if there is interpretation involved. So if being a "rigid moral code" is the Bible's purpose, then it pretty much is worthless.

 

 

 

Christians NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER reply to me on this one.

 

 

 

How can a book detail "objective morality" if it is open for interpretation in ANY WAY. The whole point of objectivity is that they are correct regardless of human existence. If we INTERPRET them, they cannot be objective (unless everyone has the same interpretation. Which they don't.). It is impossible. It's like saying 1+1=3. It just doesn't make any sense. You can't side step it, you can't dance around it, because it makes NO SENSE.

 

 

 

One of two things should be assumed:

 

 

 

1) All of the Bible is correct. There is no interpretation, we are to take things entirely literally all of the time.

 

 

 

2.) The Bible is open for interpretation, but it does not contain said "objective moral truths" because it is open for interpretation. So the Bible is not infallible, or coherent. None of the Bible is "God's will" because we have interpreted it and we cannot be sure that it is the correct interpretation.

 

 

It's been said that this isn't about the Bible, but I'll feed the fires. And you have been replied to. Many times. You just state the question again. And again. And again. And again.

 

 

 

It isn't a rigid moral code. Nobody has said that. The Ten Commandments could be considered a rigid moral code. The New Testament is not.

 

 

 

I don't understand what you're rambling on about in your first bolded part.

 

 

 

What do you mean correct? It's a series of stories. And philosophy, if you construe it as that.

 

 

 

Objective moral truths...What are you going on about? It's a guide to living your life better, if you construe it as such. Mayhaps its God's will to let people have free will? Oh, wait. It was.

 

 

 

I probably lost my temper there a bit, but that's about the third or fourth time you've asked a question which, to me, makes no sense whatsoever. Is it even a question?

 

 

 

To Chocobo's third: I don't think you understand enough about the New Testament. Its comprised of documents that were recorded into the past, mainly by disciples or people that were close to - Jesus Christ. Some parts of the Old Testament were likely passed down orally, and any of those that were carried into the New Testament obviously brought their changes and incorrections into it. However, the majority of the New Testament can be traced back to documents that had in word by word. Slight changes were made due to language differences and such, though.

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Apparently english isn't your first language either :roll: . I'm not talking about slave trading, I'm talking about giving a person to another family because they cannot raise them on their own. Are you saying adoption is wrong? Are you saying the entire country of India is wrong?!

 

 

 

the bible say it alright to SELL you're daughter -.- are you like [developmentally delayed]ed, i have to ask serious. bacause if you havent noticed i am danish, så engelsk er nok ikke mit førstesprog vel? bums. and where the [bleep] did i say abortion wrong. my [bleep]ing cousins kid is adobted from china. and where the hell does india come into this debate. you're the guy twisting it out of context -.-

 

 

 

learn to freaking understand my post before replying :wall:

 

 

 

@ choco: my qoute was a nice qoute telling there is no proof for gods exstince. i did't insult you in anyway. i was [bleep]ing just stating that english is not my first language -.- i am just a flamer then? well if you look at my post you can see i am clearly not only a flamer -.- the qoute was the proof so far god don't exist.

 

 

 

damn i am fighting both sides now. this is fun but at the same time [developmentally delayed]ed #-o

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Apparently english isn't your first language either :roll: . I'm not talking about slave trading, I'm talking about giving a person to another family because they cannot raise them on their own. Are you saying adoption is wrong? Are you saying the entire country of India is wrong?!

 

 

 

the bible say it alright to SELL you're daughter -.- are you like [developmentally delayed], i have to ask serious. bacause if you havent noticed i am danish, så engelsk er nok ikke mit førstesprog vel? bums. and where the [bleep] did i say abortion wrong. my [bleep] cousins kid is adobted from china. and where the hell does india come into this debate. you're the guy twisting it out of context -.-

 

 

 

learn to freaking understand my post before replying :wall:

 

 

 

@ choco: my qoute was a nice qoute telling there is no proof for gods exstince. i did't insult you in anyway. i was [bleep] just stating that english is not my first language -.- i am just a flamer then? well if you look at my post you can see i am clearly not only a flamer -.- the qoute was the proof so far god don't exist.

 

 

 

damn i am fighting both sides now. this is fun but at the same time [developmentally delayed] #-o

 

 

 

Choco was right, you do just flame to get a point across.

 

 

 

And why did you bring abortion into this? Selling a child into a richer family is very common in countries like India. So I'll ask you again, is the entire country of India wrong?

 

 

 

It sounds to me like you're the whole who doesn't know his facts about history.

 

 

 

So next time, quit calling everyone [developmentally delayed]ed when you are the one who is clueless.

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I can't find anything in the New Testament that says anything about selling your daughter.

 

 

 

But then again, this is a New Age version. It'd be easier to find it if it existed in an older version, which I unfortunately lost.

 

 

 

If anything were to be found over selling a family member into slavery, it's in the Old Testament. Of which, my copy was borrowed. So I can't look in it.

 

 

 

Guys, easy. x1992x was talking about his first language not being English. As I'm sure you can notice, that causes a good number of...Issues. Stop turning this into a flame fest, all of you.

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@ choco: my qoute was a nice qoute telling there is no proof for gods exstince. i did't insult you in anyway. i was [bleep] just stating that english is not my first language -.- i am just a flamer then? well if you look at my post you can see i am clearly not only a flamer -.- the qoute was the proof so far god don't exist.

 

 

 

damn i am fighting both sides now. this is fun but at the same time [developmentally delayed] #-o

 

 

 

OHHHHH, english is not YOUR first language. I see now. I thought you trying to insult my comprehension of the english language.

 

 

 

Alright, I won't lie dude, you're just confusing me at this point. But it's whatever. This debateless is factless anyway...

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@ choco: my qoute was a nice qoute telling there is no proof for gods exstince. i did't insult you in anyway. i was [bleep] just stating that english is not my first language -.- i am just a flamer then? well if you look at my post you can see i am clearly not only a flamer -.- the qoute was the proof so far god don't exist.

 

 

 

damn i am fighting both sides now. this is fun but at the same time [developmentally delayed] #-o

 

 

 

OHHHHH, english is not YOUR first language. I see now. I thought you trying to insult my comprehension of the english language.

 

 

 

Alright, I won't lie dude, you're just confusing me at this point. But it's whatever. This debateless is factless anyway...

 

 

 

Lol, that threw me off too :wall: .

 

 

 

@lent, it's in the old testament*

 

 

 

*the law that is no longer followed

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Yes, I figured as much. Considering the Old Testament was written before Jesus was born, it's not surprising it was culturally acceptable back then to sell a family member.

 

 

 

I'd at least hope to get a good deal. :twss:

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Apparently english isn't your first language either :roll: . I'm not talking about slave trading, I'm talking about giving a person to another family because they cannot raise them on their own. Are you saying adoption is wrong? Are you saying the entire country of India is wrong?!

 

 

 

the bible say it alright to SELL you're daughter -.- are you like [developmentally delayed], i have to ask serious. bacause if you havent noticed i am danish, så engelsk er nok ikke mit førstesprog vel? bums. and where the [bleep] did i say abortion wrong. my [bleep] cousins kid is adobted from china. and where the hell does india come into this debate. you're the guy twisting it out of context -.-

 

 

 

learn to freaking understand my post before replying :wall:

 

 

 

@ choco: my qoute was a nice qoute telling there is no proof for gods exstince. i did't insult you in anyway. i was [bleep] just stating that english is not my first language -.- i am just a flamer then? well if you look at my post you can see i am clearly not only a flamer -.- the qoute was the proof so far god don't exist.

 

 

 

damn i am fighting both sides now. this is fun but at the same time [developmentally delayed] #-o

 

 

 

Choco was right, you do just flame to get a point across.

 

 

 

And why did you bring abortion into this? Selling a child into a richer family is very common in countries like India. So I'll ask you again, is the entire country of India wrong?

 

 

 

It sounds to me like you're the whole who doesn't know his facts about history.

 

 

 

So next time, quit calling everyone [developmentally delayed] when you are the one who is clueless.

 

 

 

what i meant with the "you can sell you're children" it is the word of "God". i can't see the moral in selling you're children. and that is that kind of things that makes me not believing in the bible. you may not have it that way but i think either it's all real or nothing is. and it's either taken all serios or its all fiction ;)

 

 

 

want more choco or have you learnt to understand my post :lol: ;) i don't like argueing with one that don't believe in god either :|

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Is God real?

 

No.

 

 

 

/thread

 

 

 

since we have no life on this board. we need explanation for you're opionen. or else we are going to flame you! :ugeek:

 

 

 

but i agree so much on that ;)

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I personally do not believe in "god".

 

 

 

I cannot understand how "god" would allow such terrible things to happen to innocent people.

 

 

 

For instance I have a person thing against this after my mother died of cancer roughly 3 years ago. What I believe that is there such a "god" there surely he would not want these things to happen to anyone.

 

Then if he did this to my mother as she was a non believe, what gives "god" the right to decide who dies and who lives.

 

 

 

Plus im on the more scientific creation of the earth.

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Is God real?

 

No.

 

 

 

/thread

 

You're so witty.

 

\'

 

 

 

I cannot understand how "god" would allow such terrible things to happen to innocent people

 

Simple, because he's something which doesn't exist.

 

 

 

But if he did exist, and actually gave a rear end about us. I doubt that these terrible things would happen. But then again, one has to question fate? Are things meant to happen which he can't change?

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@ Lenticular J.

 

 

 

Wow..

 

 

 

The idea of objective morality is that certain things are "right" and "wrong" regardless of human existence.

 

 

 

It's really surprising you don't know that considering most debates about Christianity revolve around certain things being "right" or "wrong" according to the Bible. Look at the homosexuality thread for example.

 

 

 

Well, I'm glad you admitted that it cannot possibly contain any. You're more of a deist than a Christian man. I mean, not many Christians actually admit that it cannot be both infallible and open for interpretation. Now all you need to do is admit that your "faith" is you believing whatever you want regardless of reality, and then I'll stop asking you questions.

Hey.

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@ Lenticular J.

 

 

 

Wow..

 

 

 

The idea of objective morality is that certain things are "right" and "wrong" regardless of human existence.

 

 

 

It's really surprising you don't know that considering most debates about Christianity revolve around certain things being "right" or "wrong" according to the Bible. Look at the homosexuality thread for example.

 

 

 

Well, I'm glad you admitted that it cannot possibly contain any. You're more of a deist than a Christian man. I mean, not many Christians actually admit that it cannot be both infallible and open for interpretation. Now all you need to do is admit that your "faith" is you believing whatever you want regardless of reality, and then I'll stop asking you questions.

 

I still don't understand what you're talking about. Maybe this will illustrate how I'm feeling right now:

 

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Science is often wrong, don't blindly accept what some "expert" writes.

 

 

 

And it's often right, tooc. It's a huge stretch to go from the fact that science is a trial and error process to reject well established sciences. The whole basis of your computer and the medicine you take is testament to how science works and how many of it's key aspects have always coincided with empirical observation and testing. Much of it is proven, including the principles that concepts like evolution and phylogenetics are based on.

 

The thing is, we can only prove it here on our tiny rock. We hardly know anything about our solar system, let alone the universe in general. After all, the idea of an Oort Cloud and Kuiper Belt surfaced, what, 60 years ago? Who knows what else is out there.

 

 

 

Beyond recorded history, we know little about our planet. We can make generalizations of a time period and what lived then, or what kind of planet it was, but the margin of error has been said to be huge.

 

 

 

That's a good point, Julius. But your rationality will never work here. :P

 

 

 

By who? The difficulty of a task doesn't tell us what our current margins of error are. In reality there is very little uncertainty as to whether something like evolution happened, for example, and I have the facts to vindicate that.

 

 

 

I've seen and experienced enough science to know gross overstatements when I see them, and I'm sorry to say that yours is one of them. Some things we know less than others and some are very uncertain, but to say that "the margins of error has been said to be huge" pertaining to a whole particular flavour of scientific inquiry is wrong.

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The Bible is supposed to be a "rigid moral code" - that cannot be the case if there is interpretation involved. So if being a "rigid moral code" is the Bible's purpose, then it pretty much is worthless.

 

 

 

Christians NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER reply to me on this one.

 

 

 

The Bible is not supposed to be a rigid moral code. How are YOU able to decide what the Bible is "supposed to be"? Jesus himself said that loving God and loving others are the most important commandments that need to be followed and that every verse in the Old Testament are based on these two commandments. Now I don't have a Ph.D in philosophy, but "love God and love others" doesn't appear to be a rigid moral code to me.

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Now this is the perception problem. Many Christian churches/schools make Atheists out to be evil and misguided (to scare them away from it without letting them really consider it) and I think we can see the results of that here.

 

Its also part of the false perception that being Christian instantly means that you're a good person, and that everybody else is morally inferior/misguided.

 

 

 

 

I don't call Atheists evil, misguided maybe, but not evil. Not only that but there was a while where I was not a christian and none of things appealed to me, drugs for example are addictive, and I have seen people who are dug addicts, I've seen alcoholics, and I doo not want to be like them, they are destroying their own lives and the lives of their family and friends.

 

 

 

 

That is obviously not reallity, despite how hard people try to defend it.

 

Think of the case of the video where a Christian American Soldier throws a puppy off a cliff. Christians were instantly disowning him and saying that he was not Christian just so they could keep the facade that all Christians were morally perfect.

 

but that guy was a Christian- he was raised as a Christian, and is still a Christian...

 

And agreed this is just one example but i'm sure I could find thousands more of Bad Christians :shock: but thats not saying that there aren't equally proportional amounts of Bad Atheists.

 

The point is that whether you like it or not, being a Christian does not make you a good person by default and being an Atheist does not make you a good person by default. Everybody is morally equal.

 

 

 

 

I have never seen this video, nor do I want to. I can't explain why this person did it, and I hope they asked for forgiveness because that was really stupid, and I won't deny him being christian, but he made a mistake, we all do (especially me :wall: ) and I never said being Christain makes you good by default, it doesn't, that's the simple truth, but if you are living as a true Christian than you should be a 'good' person.

 

 

 

 

So get rid of your silly stereotypes of 'Halo Shining Christian' and 'Evil Druggy Atheist' and break back into reallity; you can do it even if your lines between reallity and fantasy are a little blurred.

 

 

 

:roll: stupid stereotypes

 

 

 

 

PS isn't it obvious to you why the Church portrays Atheists as evil; its clearly not because they actually are evil, but because the Church does not want you to leave Christianity. In my books, that is called 'LYING for SELF GAIN' which isn't morally correct.

 

 

 

visited my church before? no? well then stop saying my church potrays Atheists as evil, infact we need more in our church.....

 

 

 

 

damn i'm looking forward to his reply on that :shock: that nearly nearly hit a nail in the coffin :o

 

 

 

Yeah; he's gonna have a hard time making any reasonable counter-argument for that. Should be interesting :).

 

 

 

yes I do hope it is interesting :)

 

 

 

 

So you're saying that because toddlers act on genetically pre-determined urges that this justifies them living in a world of suffering?

 

 

 

it isn't justified, I would rather nobody suffer, the things I have seen I never want to see inflicted on anybody, even those who treat me the worst

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By who? The difficulty of a task doesn't tell us what our current margins of error are. In reality there is very little uncertainty as to whether something like evolution happened, for example, and I have the facts to vindicate that.

 

 

 

I've seen and experienced enough science to know gross overstatements when I see them, and I'm sorry to say that yours is one of them. Some things we know less than others and some are very uncertain, but to say that "the margins of error has been said to be huge" pertaining to a whole particular flavour of scientific inquiry is wrong.

 

Oh, no, I didn't mean anything pertaining to evolution with that. I mean the margin of error of what happened at what time in our planet past about ~half a million years gets progressively larger.

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Yes, I figured as much. Considering the Old Testament was written before Jesus was born, it's not surprising it was culturally acceptable back then to sell a family member.

 

 

 

I'd at least hope to get a good deal. :twss:

 

 

 

 

The Bible is not supposed to be a rigid moral code. How are YOU able to decide what the Bible is "supposed to be"? Jesus himself said that loving God and loving others are the most important commandments that need to be followed and that every verse in the Old Testament are based on these two commandments. Now I don't have a Ph.D in philosophy, but "love God and love others" doesn't appear to be a rigid moral code to me.

 

 

 

Clearly you don't have a Ph.D in Philosophy. You should also probably start checking up on those facts before you state them in a debate.

 

 

 

...Or read a few posts back.

 

 

 

I mean the margin of error of what happened at what time in our planet past about ~half a million years gets progressively larger.

 

 

 

Well, not to mention the fact that you're completely wrong, but don't you think that would go against all logic? Are you stating that we're actually getting less effective at understanding our past? I don't see how that's possible.

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I never said that, you're putting words in my mouth. Or, rather, letters under my fingers. I'm talking about the longer into unrecorded history we go, the more probable that we're quite wrong as to what went on during that time. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

 

 

And don't go riding insane. Jesus did preach about that, it's stated in the New Testament. A few verses may be misplaced in that blanket statement of insane's, but it is true that Jesus preached that. The idea of selling one's daughter would only be a single sentence in a verse, likely, but I borrowed an Old Testament from a library and haven't seen anything of that sort. I do have to say I'm merely skimming it though. I have other school projects that need attending moreso than this.

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2.) The Bible is open for interpretation, but it does not contain said "objective moral truths" because it is open for interpretation. So the Bible is not infallible, or coherent. None of the Bible is "God's will" because we have interpreted it and we cannot be sure that it is the correct interpretation.

 

[/b]

 

 

 

The Bible is a lot more complex that what you boil it down too. It is somewhat if not totally subject to a hermeneutic circle, and therefore parts that require interpretation should be interpreted in reference to the whole. The maxim in my earlier post was that those parts that are interpreted are irrelevant in a discussion of absolute morality, but that being said, just for the reason that mankind does not know the correct interpretation, that does not mean there is not one. I think it would be safe to write that the ambiguous passages in the Bible unmistakably require thought and time, and so are akin to everything to do with Christianity, it all seems to require thought and time.

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Clearly you don't have a Ph.D in Philosophy. You should also probably start checking up on those facts before you state them in a debate.

 

 

 

 

 

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

 

 

 

Note that the Law and the Prophets = all the moral commands written in the old testament. I don't understand how this isn't a fact?

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