I Have the Right to Remain Silent

[qeltar]

(Originally published on TruthScape and copied here in full for the benefit of the Tip.It community and to spur discussion.)

 

 

 

The TruthScape Soapbox - Issue #4 - I Have the Right to Remain Silent

 

 

 

Published: November 30, 2007

 

 

 

RuneScape is a multiplayer game, and interaction between players is supposed to be one of its strengths. I very often enjoy meeting new people and discussing various aspects of the game with them, and firmly believe that people who never like to deal with others would probably be happier in a single player game rather than in a MMORPG.

 

 

 

On the other hand, there are times when I really donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t feel like talking. Perhaps I am concentrating on what I am doing, I am multitasking, or I just am not in the mood. Or maybe I am in a place where a lot of other people are blabbering about something I just donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t want to listen to.

 

 

 

Fortunately, the game allows us to turn off public chat and just play quietly if we want to, so thereÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s no problem, right? Wrong, thanks to the ongoing obsession that some have with finding ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅbotsÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[warren211]

Stupid wannabe mods... and I stress the word "stupid".

[hicky_mouse]

It isn't like them calling you a bot will do anything. Them reporting you as a bot won't even do anything to you, you weren't botting. This really isn't a problem, unless you care about what some newbie thinks of you.

[qeltar]

Please understand that my articles are more to prompt discussion and raise awareness of issues; it's not about me personally. As I said in the piece, at level 121, I don't have to worry much about being called a bot.

 

 

 

I just think the overall culture where people report others all the time is a problem, especially for skillers.

[FooK-A-Ji]

Once again, there is no problem if they aren't breaking any rules and end up getting reported.

 

Let them report all they want, I say.

 

Unless one is a really sensitive person, I can't see how someone can be offended by being called a botter, when they themselves know they are not.

 

If overly sensitive is the case, they need to quit this game, as one can be subject to many other "offensive" people.

[Shadowcheval]

Unfortunately, this problem is all too common. However, simple education tends to not work very well. Jagex needs to explain thoroughly (not just in the Knowledge Base) to players what a bot is, how the act, etc. Education only works if the educated listen and care.

[britonlongbow]

Once again, there is no problem if they aren't breaking any rules and end up getting reported.

 

Let them report all they want, I say.

 

Unless one is a really sensitive person, I can't see how someone can be offended by being called a botter, when they themselves know they are not.

 

If overly sensitive is the case, they need to quit this game, as one can be subject to many other "offensive" people.

 

 

 

Fook you seem really bitter from being hardened from years of listening whining

[Triforceelf]

I think your encouraging a bad idea. If you want to be silent, then brush off the comments. However, I will continue to report anyone who does not engage in conversation with me while doing a task that is easily botted, especially if they have a low combat level. Of course I am going to report some people who really aren't bots, but hopefully I get a few bots banned.

[Latinoking]

This has to be the number one people get wrongfully banned.

 

 

 

Just For.....

 

 

 

"For not talking to idoits"

 

 

 

Also you get flammed if you don't answer what level is your woodcutting, str, or prayer etc.

 

 

 

I always tell them look it up or stop annoying the hell out of me.

 

 

 

However, I will continue to report anyone who does not engage in conversation with me while doing a task

 

And what if their muted? Or what if they don't wanna talk at all? Wow. The Nerve of some people.

[FooK-A-Ji]

Once again, there is no problem if they aren't breaking any rules and end up getting reported.

 

Let them report all they want, I say.

 

Unless one is a really sensitive person, I can't see how someone can be offended by being called a botter, when they themselves know they are not.

 

If overly sensitive is the case, they need to quit this game, as one can be subject to many other "offensive" people.

 

 

 

Fook you seem really bitter from being hardened from years of listening whining

 

 

 

You got a point there, mate.

[Vincent]

again this belongs in the rants forum qeltar. why not check out the rants forum? everything you say is always negative, what a downer. and the insults towards jagex are really unfounded, they're trying to improve the game and make it better and they're doing a good job and i know you'll come up with some excuse to make yourself look good. dont bother.

 

 

 

people would like you a lot more if you werent so slanted towards focusing on negative things and ignoring all the positive but again i dont think you'll listen to reason, you'll just go off on another tangent so why even bother addressing you.

 

 

 

i think you need a check up from the neck up. =;

[Adam007]

again this belongs in the rants forum qeltar. why not check out the rants forum? everything you say is always negative, what a downer. and the insults towards jagex are really unfounded, they're trying to improve the game and make it better and they're doing a good job and i know you'll come up with some excuse to make yourself look good. dont bother.

 

 

 

people would like you a lot more if you werent so slanted towards focusing on negative things and ignoring all the positive but again i dont think you'll listen to reason, you'll just go off on another tangent so why even bother addressing you.

 

 

 

i think you need a check up from the neck up. =;

 

What's negative about what he's saying? He's saying that jagex is promoting a culture of fear and turning players into wanna-be mods. There shouldn't be such a stigma to someone not replying. Sure it's unfriendly, but we do have the ability to turn chat to friends and people don't need to freak out just because someone doesn't respond. Just because people want to be pmods by reporting as many people as they can, we have this environment of players not looking out for each other, but using each other when they can to report each other and raise their own chances in becoming a pmod.

[Triforceelf]

 

 

 

However, I will continue to report anyone who does not engage in conversation with me while doing a task

 

And what if their muted? Or what if they don't wanna talk at all? Wow. The Nerve of some people.

 

 

 

Then I make an honest mistake. Its not my fault if your muted, and its your deal if you don't want to talk. I don't report people just because they don't talk to me, they have to be doing something in a very similar manner over and over again. Granted plenty of legit players do this, but so do lots of bots. No one denies that bots are a big problem, and the only way the average player can combat bots is by reporting someone. If you have a better idea about how to get around reporting people who act like bots, lets hear it.

[FooK-A-Ji]

again this belongs in the rants forum qeltar. why not check out the rants forum? everything you say is always negative, what a downer. and the insults towards jagex are really unfounded, they're trying to improve the game and make it better and they're doing a good job and i know you'll come up with some excuse to make yourself look good. dont bother.

 

 

 

people would like you a lot more if you werent so slanted towards focusing on negative things and ignoring all the positive but again i dont think you'll listen to reason, you'll just go off on another tangent so why even bother addressing you.

 

 

 

i think you need a check up from the neck up. =;

 

What's negative about what he's saying? He's saying that jagex is promoting a culture of fear and turning players into wanna-be mods. There shouldn't be such a stigma to someone not replying. Sure it's unfriendly, but we do have the ability to turn chat to friends and people don't need to freak out just because someone doesn't respond. Just because people want to be pmods by reporting as many people as they can, we have this environment of players not looking out for each other, but using each other when they can to report each other and raise their own chances in becoming a pmod.

 

 

 

How is it Jagex' fault, that certain players believe they have higher chances of reporting random people who don't respond?

 

I'd like to know which role Jagex, as a company plays in the way people choose to think. Its basically blaiming Jagex for letting stupid people play, isn't it?

[Jordanweb]

Jagex claim to have "macro-detecting software" in their game, so why can't they just remove the macroing option from the report interface?

 

 

 

Along with removing player moderators, this problem and many others will be fixed.

[Adam007]

again this belongs in the rants forum qeltar. why not check out the rants forum? everything you say is always negative, what a downer. and the insults towards jagex are really unfounded, they're trying to improve the game and make it better and they're doing a good job and i know you'll come up with some excuse to make yourself look good. dont bother.

 

 

 

people would like you a lot more if you werent so slanted towards focusing on negative things and ignoring all the positive but again i dont think you'll listen to reason, you'll just go off on another tangent so why even bother addressing you.

 

 

 

i think you need a check up from the neck up. =;

 

What's negative about what he's saying? He's saying that jagex is promoting a culture of fear and turning players into wanna-be mods. There shouldn't be such a stigma to someone not replying. Sure it's unfriendly, but we do have the ability to turn chat to friends and people don't need to freak out just because someone doesn't respond. Just because people want to be pmods by reporting as many people as they can, we have this environment of players not looking out for each other, but using each other when they can to report each other and raise their own chances in becoming a pmod.

 

 

 

How is it Jagex' fault, that certain players believe they have higher chances of reporting random people who don't respond?

 

I'd like to know which role Jagex, as a company plays in the way people choose to think. Its basically blaiming Jagex for letting stupid people play, isn't it?

 

It's jagex's fault because of how they've implemented the reporting system. They shouldn't have made it public that reporting increases your chances of becoming a pmod. Now we have a community where someone will report you if you say "tip it" because they think they'll become a pmod. Granted the report system is great for obvious reasons, but it also creates just a really bad environment that we didn't have before pmods were introduced.

[SportsGuy]

You certainly have the right to name your player whatever you wish, but was your character name a few letters and numbers strung together?

 

 

 

I report bots all the time for not responding...if their combat level is low (doesn't have to just be 3) and they have a strange set of behavior (dropping gems and cash in addition to not immediately setting to work on tasks like mining when an open rock is there or cutting down a yew immediately when it re-spawns (waiting for the recognition software to kick in on the auto-er program) and they don't respond.

 

 

 

Usually a response is a last resort, though I never threaten or reveal when I am reporting someone.

 

 

 

If someone uses that as a first test, I'd say they don't know the game very well, because there are bans on writing, but not playing (for abusive language, right?) which would make it impossible to communicate that way, although a reponse might be an emote or running in a circle or following that person to show you're real.

 

 

 

Basically, Jagex should start permanently banning bots when reported the first time, no questions asked, if it's found they're using a program, which once a report is filed, should be easier to discover. If you have a "pure" character, then play the game knowing you're really in a way breaking the spirit of the game.

 

 

 

I for one have just one character, do everything with that one, and only use it while sitting at the computer. If you don't, I don't feel sorry for reports and bans. That's MY choice...as it is your choice in your player character names and their behavior while in the game.

[FooK-A-Ji]

again this belongs in the rants forum qeltar. why not check out the rants forum? everything you say is always negative, what a downer. and the insults towards jagex are really unfounded, they're trying to improve the game and make it better and they're doing a good job and i know you'll come up with some excuse to make yourself look good. dont bother.

 

 

 

people would like you a lot more if you werent so slanted towards focusing on negative things and ignoring all the positive but again i dont think you'll listen to reason, you'll just go off on another tangent so why even bother addressing you.

 

 

 

i think you need a check up from the neck up. =;

 

What's negative about what he's saying? He's saying that jagex is promoting a culture of fear and turning players into wanna-be mods. There shouldn't be such a stigma to someone not replying. Sure it's unfriendly, but we do have the ability to turn chat to friends and people don't need to freak out just because someone doesn't respond. Just because people want to be pmods by reporting as many people as they can, we have this environment of players not looking out for each other, but using each other when they can to report each other and raise their own chances in becoming a pmod.

 

 

 

How is it Jagex' fault, that certain players believe they have higher chances of reporting random people who don't respond?

 

I'd like to know which role Jagex, as a company plays in the way people choose to think. Its basically blaiming Jagex for letting stupid people play, isn't it?

 

It's jagex's fault because of how they've implemented the reporting system. They shouldn't have made it public that reporting increases your chances of becoming a pmod. Now we have a community where someone will report you if you say "tip it" because they think they'll become a pmod. Granted the report system is great for obvious reasons, but it also creates just a really bad environment that we didn't have before pmods were introduced.

 

 

 

This thread is based on the fact that people report , in hopes of becoming a p mod.

 

Maybe we should return to before there were no p mods, and everyone could put an auto character selling gold, items, characters.

 

Advertising websites.

 

Scamming people openly .

 

Extensively swearing and being tards to other players in general.

 

 

 

These reasons are why we now have pmods, to those of you who didn't play before that.

 

 

 

So now is the time to weigh the scales, is it, or is it not worth it having some people offended by some newb who "reports" them for botting.

 

 

 

Or is it more important to take away player mods, and have a massive increase in what I mentioned above in the situation before player mods?

 

 

 

This whole thread is typical RS scenario.

 

 

 

1.Jagex puts in pmods , which actually DO HELP.

 

2. Someone gets pissed off over some ordeal and starts a motion to get rid of pmods, as they in their own opinion absolutely were better off without them..

[Jordanweb]

You certainly have the right to name your player whatever you wish, but was your character name a few letters and numbers strung together?

 

 

 

I report bots all the time for not responding...if their combat level is low (doesn't have to just be 3) and they have a strange set of behavior (dropping gems and cash in addition to not immediately setting to work on tasks like mining when an open rock is there or cutting down a yew immediately when it re-spawns (waiting for the recognition software to kick in on the auto-er program) and they don't respond.

 

 

 

Usually a response is a last resort, though I never threaten or reveal when I am reporting someone.

 

 

 

If someone uses that as a first test, I'd say they don't know the game very well, because there are bans on writing, but not playing (for abusive language, right?) which would make it impossible to communicate that way, although a reponse might be an emote or running in a circle or following that person to show you're real.

 

 

 

Basically, Jagex should start permanently banning bots when reported the first time, no questions asked, if it's found they're using a program, which once a report is filed, should be easier to discover. If you have a "pure" character, then play the game knowing you're really in a way breaking the spirit of the game.

 

 

 

I for one have just one character, do everything with that one, and only use it while sitting at the computer. If you don't, I don't feel sorry for reports and bans. That's MY choice...as it is your choice in your player character names and their behavior while in the game.

 

 

 

Pfft, wannabe moderator. :shame:

 

 

 

You're probably the type of person that stands around draynor reporting bots for hours in the hopes you'll get a silver crown. :lol:

[Peronix]

Players should train themselves to only suspect someone of being a bot after a great deal of careful observation,

 

 

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. It isn't really necessary in all cases to observe a bot for a while before you report them. Of course you shouldn't just report because they don't respond, or because they're level 3, but if there are a number of indicators to suggest that they are an autoer, it would probably be ok to report them immediately.

 

 

 

If a character...

 

 

 

Is level 3

 

Is one of many level 3's surrounding a resource

 

Has a confusing name

 

Has a name that uses the same letters and a different set of numbers as another suspected autoer

 

Uses the default look for their avatar, or a uniform look that numerous suspected bots share

 

 

 

If most of those are true then there's a very good chance that the character is a bot. Any "skiller" that chooses to make himself appear as an autoer is asking to be reported...

[Triforceelf]

 

 

 

Pfft, wannabe moderator. :shame:

 

 

 

You're probably the type of person that stands around draynor reporting bots for hours in the hopes you'll get a silver crown. :lol:

 

 

 

Not everyone who reports bots is a wanna be mod. I notice that your all saying reporting people for not talking is bad, but whats the solution to not reporting? I have not even the slightest interest in being a p mod. Infact if it was offered to me, I would likely turn it down because I am not always interested in helping/being polite to everyone. But I still report bots (or people who appear to be them) because I am sick and tired of RS being filled with bots stealing legitimate players resources. So quite telling us not to report unless you have a bright idea as to how we can help be a solution to the bot problem without ever reporting anyone.

[brave]

I think your encouraging a bad idea. If you want to be silent, then brush off the comments. However, I will continue to report anyone who does not engage in conversation with me while doing a task that is easily botted, especially if they have a low combat level. Of course I am going to report some people who really aren't bots, but hopefully I get a few bots banned.

 

 

 

If you continue to do this then it is possible that you will be banned for abuse of the Report system. Jagex not only keeps an eye on just the reports, they also keep an eye on who is doing the reporting. I know of at least one person who had a temporary ban for this.

 

 

 

I do agree with the author that RS players are getting too paranoid about bots (or whatever you want to call them).

 

 

 

I also agree that combat level is not a good indicator for characters and should be replaced by something else, or even nothing. After all the only time you need to know someones combat level is in the Wilderness. The display of combat level is a throwback from RSC where combat was possible almost anywhere. IMO there should be no displayed level for characters (except for combat in the Wilderness), instead we should have the ability to "click" on a character to display ALL their skills and levels. This would make the detection of bots by players easier, ie some one ranked in, say woodcutting, but nothing else is a very good candidate for a botter.

[Artificial_Doom_Flavor]

I offer my victims in the wilderness (those I perceive to be runite goldfarmers, based on stat concentrations, name, scout names, and behavior) a chance for survival if they but say what their name is as I bind them.

 

 

 

I never get a response, and it generally takes me at least three minutes to make the kill. Do I know for sure that the people I'm killing are goldfarmers? No, but I have a strong suspicion and they don't defend themselves, so for that and the sake of financing my hybrid, I kill them.

 

 

 

You have the right to remain silent, and players have the right to act on their suspicions, even if they may be wrong. If you didn't macro, then you have nothing to be worried about anyway. Case closed.

[M6c_Magnum]

I think your encouraging a bad idea. If you want to be silent, then brush off the comments. However, I will continue to report anyone who does not engage in conversation with me while doing a task that is easily botted, especially if they have a low combat level. Of course I am going to report some people who really aren't bots, but hopefully I get a few bots banned.

 

Wow....

 

What you are doing seems like it would not only not be good for abuse and reporting system, but would actually work against it.

 

 

 

You are basically saying that you will report anyone whose actions you do not like or disagree with, in hopes that at least some will be bots.

 

 

 

That seems to be very similar to what Jagex did with staking. To allude to another of Qeltar's articles, you are trying to cure a disease by killing the patient.

 

What you are justifying is like Jagex saying, "We are banning 90% of all users for RWT. We know that some people are not RWTers, but hopefully a few RWTers get banned and the remaining 10% will benefit."

 

Remove all staking to eliminate some RWT? Take down good players while taking down bad?

 

 

 

 

 

Also, the report feature would no doubt be a lot more efficient if the reports were more accurate. Jagex has to sift through faulty reports to find the legitimate ones. This time could even take longer than it would have taken for Jagex to find these bots/rule-breakers on their own.

 

I think that if a person has a significantly low % of accurate reports, that person should have the option to report (for certain rules at least) removed.

 

 

 

That would eliminate a lot of "0mg b0t! report!" or "0mg give me money or i will rep0rt"/"0mg im not noob, i report u". Which would be good.

 

 

 

 

 

Also note, being a skiller myself, I find this more personal than some may, as it gets FREAKING ANNOYING answering "are you a bot?" or responding to "lol a bot"... even when I wear my Green H'ween, people still ask... wtf?

 

Haha people need to stop being pretend mods - especially when they don't even know the rules themselves

[Triforceelf]

I think your encouraging a bad idea. If you want to be silent, then brush off the comments. However, I will continue to report anyone who does not engage in conversation with me while doing a task that is easily botted, especially if they have a low combat level. Of course I am going to report some people who really aren't bots, but hopefully I get a few bots banned.

 

 

 

If you continue to do this then it is possible that you will be banned for abuse of the Report system. Jagex not only keeps an eye on just the reports, they also keep an eye on who is doing the reporting. I know of at least one person who had a temporary ban for this.

 

 

 

I do agree with the author that RS players are getting too paranoid about bots (or whatever you want to call them).

 

 

 

I also agree that combat level is not a good indicator for characters and should be replaced by something else, or even nothing. After all the only time you need to know someones combat level is in the Wilderness. The display of combat level is a throwback from RSC where combat was possible almost anywhere. IMO there should be no displayed level for characters (except for combat in the Wilderness), instead we should have the ability to "click" on a character to display ALL their skills and levels. This would make the detection of bots by players easier, ie some one ranked in, say woodcutting, but nothing else is a very good candidate for a botter.

 

 

 

A couple things:

 

 

 

I realize that Jagex keeps track of improper reports. Thats why you should only report if you are at least reasonably sure the person is a bot, not just because they wouldnt talk to you or are doing funny things, but because they do it for an extended period of time.

 

 

 

And secondly, people need to remember that not everyone bots for profit. Some people bot just to do menial tasks like spin BS even if they have lots of skills in the highscores. Its certainly not as likely that Vickgutter combat 97 is a bot as Bksx9827 combat 3 is, but it can still happen.