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Young Women in the Media


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Or you just give this whole thing the finger like i do.

J'adore aussi le sexe et les snuff movies

Je trouve que ce sont des purs moments de vie

Je ne me reconnais plus dans les gens

Je suis juste un cas désespérant

Et comme personne ne viendra me réclamer

Je terminerai comme un objet retrouvé

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The porn industry isn't to blame for anything except following the detrimental standards that are set by the media.

 

 

 

(1)Its large because that's the way people like it , hey the girls are paid a large amount of money to do professional porn..

 

 

 

(2) If your still talking about porn.. well that's their job, they need no qualifications to do their job and yet they still get paid higher than doctors..

 

Nowadays, the media dictates what kind of girls are considered attractive.

 

 

 

"Pretty" and "attractive" are relative terms. In current Western culture young, busty, skinny and tanned girls are "pretty" whereas pale, plump and mature women are "ugly". A few hundred years ago, it was exactly the opposite.

 

 

 

To prove my point, take a look at female nudes in art. (I suppose this is acceptable as it is not pornography)

 

[hide=NSFW]

 

Cranach, Nymph at the Fountain, 1518

 

cranachkt4.jpg

 

 

 

Rubens, Venus at the Mirror, c. 1615

 

rubens102qq9.th.jpg

 

[/hide]

 

Compare those to a more modern piece of art, in which the girl is often very young, busty, tanned and very skinny!

 

[hide=NSFW]

 

Modigliani, Reclining Nude, 1919.

 

modiglianirecliningnudebq5.th.jpg

 

[/hide]

 

 

 

My point is you can't change that.

 

Of course you can. See above. Sex has always sold well, but it's the way in which it's being sold that is the problem.

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While "looking good" is natural desire for every man, it shouldn't be the most important.

 

 

 

I value women for their innocence. The most thing that turns me off the most from a girl is when she curses. Its like she degrades her beauty.

 

 

 

Well, thats just me

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I gave this a lot ot thought; If I had a kid/kids (no matter if male or female), would I really want to raise them in the western culture I was brought up in?

 

 

 

Granted, I didn't get "corrupted" by it, I see how crappy the teenage/school world can be when girls think they have to be thin as a nylon

 

thread to be 'popular', and boys have to do sports, not wear certain clothes, or face social 'expulsion'.

 

 

 

Is the media to blame? Absolutely. If you see all "real" and "hot" girls are thin ever since you're 2 year old and see cartoons, of course it's going to affect your thinking. I'd carefully select what cartoons, programs etc. to show my kids, not some overly kiddy stupid, naÃÆÃâÃâïve programs, but something constructive and natural which gives humanity value regardless of your physical attributes.

 

 

 

This is largely for American culture, but lightly the Europeans have some similiar problems.

 

 

 

I'd definitely raise my kid/kids in Europe, hopefully in some quiet, relatively small and peaceful nation with lots of freedom and gender equality like Austria, Finland, Sweden, etc.

 

 

 

I especially like nordic societies and their immense freedom/general lack of judgement, extensive social services, great daycare programming, learning equality & justice since an early age... Definitely that over the american, overly-competitive environment.

 

 

 

Not saying the US is a bad place for a kid to grow up, maybe it wasn't in the past, but frankly I wouldn't raise a kid in that environment right now in the year 2007.

 

 

 

I value women for their innocence. The most thing that turns me off the most from a girl is when she curses. Its like she degrades her beauty.

 

 

 

Well, women aren't some magical unicorns. :P They are human beings just like men. Of course some of them will curse, not shower, get overly drunk, shout and do other repulsive things. Maybe not in conservative southern-state or middle-eastern countries, but in societies with vast equality, they can be your friends just as a male person would.

 

 

 

I wouldn't raise my daughter to be "innocent". She's a person just like my son would be. I don't expect her to take any gender roles or appear to be something she's not. Decency is not the same as putting your hand on your mouth every time you say 'darn' or hear the "f" word.

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I value women for their innocence. The most thing that turns me off the most from a girl is when she curses. Its like she degrades her beauty.

 

 

 

Well, women aren't some magical unicorns. :P They are human beings just like men. Of course some of them will curse, not shower, get overly drunk, shout and do other repulsive things. Maybe not in conservative southern-state or middle-eastern countries, but in societies with vast equality, they can be your friends just as a male person would.

 

 

 

I wouldn't raise my daughter to be "innocent". She's a person just like my son would be. I don't expect her to take any gender roles or appear to be something she's not. Decency is not the same as putting your hand on your mouth every time you say 'darn' or hear the "f" word.

 

 

 

That only shows your view of beauty is different from mine and does not change my view. I never denied that girls were not humans and I never said they was magical unicorns either.

 

 

 

I never said anything about not having friends who are girls that are drunk, smoke, or curse. However its these very traits that prevent me from going 1 extra step to pursue the next level in a relationship.

 

 

 

To me, a womans value is that of her blessings to others. I am not saying she will make mistakes, but I am saying one who does it without reguard or thought of its results is someone I just don't want to be with.

 

 

 

To me, profanity lowers yourself, thus degrading. Women are very beautiful prized creatures who sell theirselfs short. Cursing is just another way of lowering their standards.

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Women are very beautiful prized creatures who sell theirselfs short. Cursing is just another way of lowering their standards.

 

If you ask me, this kind of attitude fuels the fires of sexism and "women in the media" issues.

 

 

 

Firstly, I would stay away from the term "creature" if I were you. That's no way to describe any human being. :)

 

 

 

Secondly, women are not "innocent" and "pure" -- or at least no more innocent/pure than a man.

 

 

 

Thirdly, the choice of diction a woman uses should in no way affect their "purity" or standards. Women should get the same treatment a man would with use of swear words.

 

 

 

The idea that women must always be polite and must never swear is part of the "women in the media" problems. No person should be expeceted to speak or act a certain way simply because of society's expectations of their race or gender.

 

 

 

Personally, I have no quarrels with a women who swears.

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Slightly OT, but swearing is a culture problem, not a attraction problem. Just give it a thought for a second, but what if the words we considered 'bad' were not considered so? Would it still bug you to hear females say them?

 

 

 

I for one wish society did away with the taboo of words, as that would be one less thing to worry about...

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But how can you all blame "the media", as if there weren't any human beings behind it? Don't TV producers and company salesmen prefer skinny, busty girls or lean, muscular men in advertisements because they know they will arouse certain feelings in the audience? (A part of it will feel attracted and the other part will feel jealous).

 

There's no use on simply blaming "the media" or "the society" (sorry to all emo kids) for these problems. There are actual people (as corrupted and wealth-driven as they can be) behind these tags.

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But how can you all blame "the media", as if there weren't any human beings behind it? Don't TV producers and company salesmen prefer skinny, busty girls or lean, muscular men in advertisements because they know they will arouse certain feelings in the audience? (A part of it will feel attracted and the other part will feel jealous). There's no use on simply blaming "the media" or "the society" (sorry to all emo kids) for these problems. There are actual people (as corrupted and wealth-driven as they can be) behind these tags.

 

 

 

the term media in this discussion covers everything u said... dont worry

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Women are very beautiful prized creatures who sell theirselfs short. Cursing is just another way of lowering their standards.

 

If you ask me, this kind of attitude fuels the fires of sexism and "women in the media" issues.

 

 

 

Firstly, I would stay away from the term "creature" if I were you. That's no way to describe any human being. :)

 

 

 

My apologies. It was only a term to get the "feel" of what I meant, I really didn't know what words to use to come across what I meant.

 

 

 

Secondly, women are not "innocent" and "pure" -- or at least no more innocent/pure than a man.

 

 

 

I know this, I never said anyone was perfect. But girls who do drugs, get high, smoke, all are such turn offs to me. Some people turn away from girls due to "personality". Why can I not turn a girl away for her habits?

 

 

 

Thirdly, the choice of diction a woman uses should in no way affect their "purity" or standards. Women should get the same treatment a man would with use of swear words.

 

 

Curse words are not "good words". Their intents are usually and generally not a good thing for other people when used. Their meant to degrade, hurt, or despise someone. If you want or anyone else wants a girl who curses like a sailor, so be it, but its not the type of girl I would like.

 

 

 

The idea that women must always be polite and must never swear is part of the "women in the media" problems. No person should be expeceted to speak or act a certain way simply because of society's expectations of their race or gender.

 

 

 

But this is done reguardless of anyone's opinion. I think finding a girl who is kind and generous a more greater find than someone who curses just cuz they don't care.

 

 

 

Personally, I have no quarrels with a women who swears.

 

 

 

Me neither, but it won't go pass the friendship level.

 

 

 

My comments in bold.

If you love me, send me a PM.

 

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My point is you can't change that.

 

Of course you can. See above. Sex has always sold well, but it's the way in which it's being sold that is the problem.

 

 

 

How can it be sold "better"? What's your solution?

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the media are working on turning men into "worthless unless you're a sex symbol" too. So I don't think it's anything to do with not treating the sexes equally. Also, it's not as if "the media" has some kind of big evil plan, it just produces what people buy.

 

 

 

My answer is to look down on people who buy and read tabloid newspapers or "glossy magazines" :D

 

 

 

 

 

I value women for their innocence. The most thing that turns me off the most from a girl is when she curses. Its like she degrades her beauty.

 

 

 

I am interested if you think that cursing degrades your own beauty as a human being?

For it is the greyness of dusk that reigns.

The time when the living and the dead exist as one.

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My point is you can't change that.

 

Of course you can. See above. Sex has always sold well, but it's the way in which it's being sold that is the problem.

 

 

 

How can it be sold "better"? What's your solution?

 

"Better" in the sense that the images they portray are not so detrimental to male/female self-esteem. Like I said before, the main reasons for anorexia and other eating disorders is often due to the media's images of "how a girl should look".

 

 

 

A solution to reforming the media's image on male/female ideals would require a lot of work, more than one humble teenager could plot on his own.

 

 

 

I would say start small, though. Raise awareness about the detrimental effects of the media. If the parents were half as worried about the media as they are about soft drugs, things would be very different. :)

 

 

 

the media are working on turning men into "worthless unless you're a sex symbol" too. So I don't think it's anything to do with not treating the sexes equally. Also, it's not as if "the media" has some kind of big evil plan, it just produces what people buy.

 

One issue is that it's the media that chooses what we like. The reason people think skinny, busty, tanned, young, etc. is sexy is only because the media has pushed it to that point. See my earlier post for details and examples.

 

 

 

They do not have an evil plan, they simply have a plan to gain more money for themselves. If that involves more youth suicides, eating disorders, etc. -- they don't really care! (unless it begins affecting their profits)

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I personally don't mind the male representations that much. Currently, the female image is much more detrimental and requires a lot more attention.

 

 

 

In certain cases, the male image is actually benefitial. Building muscles and losing the beer gut can be pretty healthy. Much healthier than being underweight, at least. ;)

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My point is you can't change that.

 

Of course you can. See above. Sex has always sold well, but it's the way in which it's being sold that is the problem.

 

 

 

How can it be sold "better"? What's your solution?

 

"Better" in the sense that the images they portray are not so detrimental to male/female self-esteem. Like I said before, the main reasons for anorexia and other eating disorders is often due to the media's images of "how a girl should look".

 

 

 

A solution to reforming the media's image on male/female ideals would require a lot of work, more than one humble teenager could plot on his own.

 

 

 

I would say start small, though. Raise awareness about the detrimental effects of the media. If the parents were half as worried about the media as they are about soft drugs, things would be very different. :)

 

 

 

the media are working on turning men into "worthless unless you're a sex symbol" too. So I don't think it's anything to do with not treating the sexes equally. Also, it's not as if "the media" has some kind of big evil plan, it just produces what people buy.

 

One issue is that it's the media that chooses what we like. The reason people think skinny, busty, tanned, young, etc. is sexy is only because the media has pushed it to that point. See my earlier post for details and examples.

 

 

 

They do not have an evil plan, they simply have a plan to gain more money for themselves. If that involves more youth suicides, eating disorders, etc. -- they don't really care! (unless it begins affecting their profits)

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I personally don't mind the male representations that much. Currently, the female image is much more detrimental and requires a lot more attention.

 

 

 

In certain cases, the male image is actually benefitial. Building muscles and losing the beer gut can be pretty healthy. Much healthier than being underweight, at least. ;)

 

 

 

Well they are only portraying "how a girl should look" because that's obviously what the majority think "how a girl should look". Logically, if the majority disagreed then they wouldn't portray girls like that.

 

 

 

What would you do if you weren't a humble teenager?

 

 

 

What can awareness do? How would you raise it? And do you really think it will solve the problem?

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Well they are only portraying "how a girl should look" because that's obviously what the majority think "how a girl should look". Logically, if the majority disagreed then they wouldn't portray girls like that.

 

Like I said -- the media defines our current view of beauty, thus it is only logical for them to portray images based on their own definition. See my earlier post for an example of how the media has changed the public's definition of physical beauty.

 

 

 

What would you do if you weren't a humble teenager?

 

If I was a politician I would have to follow the general public's beliefs (more or less) or else I would lose votes.

 

 

 

If I was a dictator and I had no fear of losing votes, then I would probably change the face of the media completely. I wouldn't allow them to advertise so freely and abusively, and I would encourage citizens to advertise their own beliefs and create their own media. Ever heard of culture jamming? Something like that.

 

 

 

Of course, society wouldn't be prepared for such a radical change, so it's likely that any changes I make would be baby steps, simply to avoid having the entire world hate me.

 

 

 

What can awareness do?

 

Awareness is an extremely powerful tool. The more people that are aware of how damaging the mass media is, the more the media will make itself look like it cares, and even the smallest bit of pretending on their part can go a long way. Even if they start showing more "natural" and less airbrushed models, it will help.

 

 

 

I've said it before, they are very interested in profits. And if millions of concerned parents begin to protest against the media's current advertising techniques, they will see that attitude reflected in their profits, and they will likely change.

 

 

 

How would you raise it?

 

Culture jamming is a fun and creative way to vandalise advertisements, express personal opinions and to raise awareness. :)

 

 

 

Although it would probably be more appropriate (and legal) to join/create media awareness groups, protests, etc. Look into Noam Chomsky's speeches for lots of great information. Taking/teaching classes on the media can help raise awareness for yourself and others.

 

 

 

And do you really think it will solve the problem?

 

It won't solve the problem, but it's a start. Changing the public's opinion isn't something that can be done overnight.

 

 

 

Ever seen Dove's Evolution advertisement? It's aimed at the "media aware" people and it basically says "We care about you, we are not like the average media corporations!"

 

Whether or not they actually do care, advertisements like these can actually help the current problems many teens face with self-esteem.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knEIM16NuPg

 

 

 

Imagine if every advertisement you saw showed you the "before" and "after" images. :)

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I know this is off topic, but I just wanted to say something.

 

 

 

Venomai, I've been following you on this thread and the marijuana thread, and I just wanted to compliment you on your intelligence. Your posts are well put together, and worth reading, while you also seem to be quite open minded. :D

 

 

 

Anyway, sorry for the off topicness. :P

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Disney Channel doesn't exactly help with this either. Kids grow up watching girls like Hillary Duff and like pretty much every girl on that channel does, they pick up a singing career. Those viewers who are still below the age of 12 start listening to their music and becoming big fans. What kind of message do you think it sends to the little girls watching them when they get boob jobs and dress like [bleep]s?

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Well they are only portraying "how a girl should look" because that's obviously what the majority think "how a girl should look". Logically, if the majority disagreed then they wouldn't portray girls like that.

 

Like I said -- the media defines beauty, thus it is only logical for them to portray images based on their own definition. See my earlier post for an example of how the media has changed the public's definition of physical beauty.

 

 

 

What would you do if you weren't a humble teenager?

 

If I was a politician I would have to follow the general public's beliefs (more or less) or else I would lose votes.

 

 

 

If I was a dictator and I had no fear of losing votes, then I would probably change the face of the media completely. I wouldn't allow them to advertise so freely and abusively, and I would encourage citizens to advertise their own beliefs and create their own media. Ever heard of

 

culture jamming? Something like that.

 

 

 

Of course, society wouldn't be prepared for such a radical change, so it's likely that any changes I make would be baby steps, simply to avoid having the entire world hate me.

 

 

 

What can awareness do?

 

Awareness is an extremely powerful tool. The more people that are aware of how damaging the mass media is, the more the media will make itself look like it cares, and even the smallest bit of pretending on their part can go a long way. Even if they start showing more "natural" and less airbrushed models, it will help.

 

 

 

I've said it before, they are very interested in profits. And if millions of concerned parents begin to protest against the media's current advertising techniques, they will see that attitude reflected in their profits, and they will likely change.

 

 

 

How would you raise it?

 

Culture jamming is a fun and creative way to vandalise advertisements, express personal opinions and to raise awareness. :)

 

 

 

Although it would probably be more appropriate (and legal) to join/create media awareness groups, protests, etc. Look into Noam Chomsky's speeches for lots of great information. Taking/teaching classes on the media can help raise awareness for yourself and others.

 

 

 

And do you really think it will solve the problem?

 

It won't solve the problem, but it's a start. Changing the public's opinion isn't something that can be done overnight.

 

 

 

Ever seen Dove's Evolution advertisement? It's aimed at the "media aware" people and it basically says "We care about you, we are not like the average media corporations!"

 

Whether or not they actually do care, advertisements like these can actually help the current problems many teens face with self-esteem.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knEIM16NuPg

 

 

 

Imagine if every advertisement you saw showed you the "before" and "after" images. :)

 

 

 

The media defines based on us, the consumers. Technically, it is us that defines beauty because we accept their view of beauty.

 

 

 

Wow, you shouldn't put all the blame on the media. I mean we do accept it.

 

 

 

Yeah, good luck trying to get the average Joe to "cultural jam".

 

 

 

I dont buy this whole awareness thing, sorry. I'm aware. I dont do crap about it.

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I mean we do accept it.

 

 

The thing is kids don't know any better, and they grow up thinking they need to look like the stars in the media

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[hide]The porn industry isn't to blame for anything except following the detrimental standards that are set by the media.

 

 

 

(1)Its large because that's the way people like it , hey the girls are paid a large amount of money to do professional porn..

 

 

 

(2) If your still talking about porn.. well that's their job, they need no qualifications to do their job and yet they still get paid higher than doctors..

 

Nowadays, the media dictates what kind of girls are considered attractive.

 

 

 

"Pretty" and "attractive" are relative terms. In current Western culture young, busty, skinny and tanned girls are "pretty" whereas pale, plump and mature women are "ugly". A few hundred years ago, it was exactly the opposite.

 

 

 

To prove my point, take a look at female nudes in art. (I suppose this is acceptable as it is not pornography)

 

[hide=NSFW]

 

Cranach, Nymph at the Fountain, 1518

 

cranachkt4.jpg

 

 

 

Rubens, Venus at the Mirror, c. 1615

 

rubens102qq9.th.jpg

 

[/hide]

 

Compare those to a more modern piece of art, in which the girl is often very young, busty, tanned and very skinny!

 

[hide=NSFW]

 

Modigliani, Reclining Nude, 1919.

 

modiglianirecliningnudebq5.th.jpg

 

[/hide]

 

 

 

My point is you can't change that.

 

Of course you can. See above. Sex has always sold well, but it's the way in which it's being sold that is the problem.[/hide]

 

 

 

Why do you always have a good point in every topic? :lol:

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The porn industry isn't to blame for anything except following the detrimental standards that are set by the media.

 

 

 

(1)Its large because that's the way people like it , hey the girls are paid a large amount of money to do professional porn..

 

 

 

(2) If your still talking about porn.. well that's their job, they need no qualifications to do their job and yet they still get paid higher than doctors..

 

Nowadays, the media dictates what kind of girls are considered attractive.

 

 

 

"Pretty" and "attractive" are relative terms. In current Western culture young, busty, skinny and tanned girls are "pretty" whereas pale, plump and mature women are "ugly". A few hundred years ago, it was exactly the opposite.

 

 

 

To prove my point, take a look at female nudes in art. (I suppose this is acceptable as it is not pornography)

 

First of beg your pardon for the late reply. Second of all I accept your point about the changes in cultural tastes, and we're talking about the culture in general here because there will be segments that like the things that you mention as 'ugly'. However you can see that the culture is always changing as some size0 models are being banned from fashion shows because its quiet frankly wrong for them to be sending those images out to younger girls.

 

 

 

To the point of media dictation, well I'm not so sure media dictates people well at least I hope it doesn't but I can see how it can affect some peoples choices.. at the end of the day we have to have education to allow us to make judgements for ourselves by weighing up the arguments from both sides.

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First of beg your pardon for the late reply. Second of all I accept your point about the changes in cultural tastes, and we're talking about the culture in general here because there will be segments that like the things that you mention as 'ugly'.

 

Yes, we're talking about culture. I'm saying there have been apparent cultural changes influenced by the media's images of the "ideal woman".

 

 

 

However you can see that the culture is always changing as some size0 models are being banned from fashion shows because its quiet frankly wrong for them to be sending those images out to younger girls.

 

Key word being some. In the West, size 0 (or similar) models are still very common in the media. Essentially, only a small number of "skinny" models have actually been banned.

 

 

 

"London Fashion Week refuses to ban 'size 0' models from catwalk"

 

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_b ... 186514.ece

 

 

 

at the end of the day we have to have education to allow us to make judgements for ourselves by weighing up the arguments from both sides.

 

If your education doesn't include media awareness classes then it won't help you make proper judgements regarding the media. Essentially, there is no "weighing" of the arguments as you only have one side -- the side you are familiar with.

 

In my opinion, first year media should be a mandatory class in high school.

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The media defines based on us, the consumers. Technically, it is us that defines beauty because we accept their view of beauty.

 

Do you actually think that the West woke up one morning and spontaneously decided that plump is no longer pretty?

 

 

 

We accept their view of beauty because we are ignorant about the media's intentions and the detrimental effects of accepting that image. Like you said, it's the media's view of beauty, not ours.

 

 

 

The media will adapt the image of the "ideal woman" to the standards of the society, in a way that makes them maximum profit. However, ultimately, it is society that follows the image set by the media, not the other way around.

 

 

 

Wow, you shouldn't put all the blame on the media. I mean we do accept it.

 

Yes, our own ignorance is also to blame. But the real factor here is the media. As we've said, the media sets the image, and society follows it. The fact that the media deceives us into accepting it is even more infuriating (see the Evolution video).

 

 

 

And of course, many of us accept the media -- we have been brought up in a manner that we have no choice but to accept it. Most parents and teachers are just as ignorant about the media as the rest of society. Media class is still a very new concept in schools, and most students don't sign up for it.

 

 

 

Just because we accept something doesn't mean it's a good thing. Take a look at binge drinking, which is "accepted" in various cultures (British, Aussie), yet it has shown to be very detrimental and even fatal to many individuals.

 

 

 

Yeah, good luck trying to get the average Joe to "cultural jam".

 

I suspect they would want to if they were well educated about the media. Nevertheless, since I would be a dictator, I wouldn't give them much choice. ;)

 

 

 

I dont buy this whole awareness thing, sorry. I'm aware.

 

Sorry, but you are not aware. Your earlier posts in this thread show your ignorance in the matter.

 

Even if this thread has shed some light on one particular aspect of the media, it doesn't make you "aware". :|

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Yes, our own ignorance is also to blame. But the real factor here is the media. As we've said, the media sets the image, and society follows it. The fact that the media deceives us into accepting it is even more infuriating (see the Evolution video).
So universal beauty ideals common for every culture is a myth, it's all dependant on what the media tells us?

-This message was deviously brought to you by: mischief1at.gif

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