What would have happened if... (alternate history thread)

[warri0r45]

What would happen if the english guy who sugested the existence of atoms (forgot his name) never had been born?

 

 

 

John Dalton? Well I think atomic theory would have sprung up but perhaps at a later time. People thought of matter in a particulate nature centuries before Dalton. He just formulated Atomic theory which (the core of it, anyway) stands to this day.

I'm aware a greek phlosopher thought of this it is just something intresting to think about.

 

 

 

Democritus? Yeah, nothing would have changed. It was more like this:

 

 

 

man1: I discovered atoms

 

man2: You're right

 

man3: some guy before suggested this thousands of years ago, but it had no influence on your present day discovery.

 

man1: Yeah, but let's give him some credit.

 

 

 

 

 

Something like that.

 

 

 

Dalton formed the basic theory of matter including the nature of atoms, elements and compounds, the latter being in fixed ratios of elements . ** Did Democritus or any other early thinkers say anything about compounds?

 

 

 

**Edit: He also devised the first concept of atomic mass, probably why an amu (atomic mass unit) is these days alternately called a Dalton.

[raven_gaurd0]

 

What would have happened if the Axis powers had won WWII?

 

 

 

I'd be speaking Japanese, for one.

 

 

 

But Japanese is AWESOME!

 

 

 

:

 

 

 

OK, let's see what I can do in a cool, long, and detailed way that Necromagus put his history...without...involving.....Zombies. :-k :-k :-k

 

 

 

OK:

 

 

 

The year is 481 BC, the warring city states of Greece were recently alerted to a threat coming from the eastern kingdoms of Persia. Most of the other city states of Greece have already been defeated, or have alligned their loyalties and their armies with the Persian invaders. The general commanding the Persian horde is Xerxes, son of Darius I of Persia, whom had been humiliated years before by a Greek soldiery force whom had burned down the Persian capitol at the time. Xerxes, at the time, came for revenge to burn down Athens.

 

At this time, Eurybiades, a commander and politician of Athens had alerted the city-state to the threat of an incoming Persian army and naval force far beyond their capabilities to defeat. As an added bonus, the navy of the Persian army could easily sweep past the few naval defenses that Athens had, seeing as they had ignored Eurybiade's warnings that Athens needed a better navy.

 

Sparta, feeling no form of pity for the state of Athens, allowed the city to be razed by Xerxes. Furthermore, Xerxes pushed his forces west and destroyed all other city states he encountered. Ignoring the Spartan state in the south, Xerxes pushed north and ultimately obliterated the entire northern Greece country.

 

Sparta, feeling threatened, allied with the few other city-states in the south and pulled together a Greek force hopefully able to deter the Persian Horde.

 

In 467 BC, the Persian empire clashes with the ragged remainders of Greece, but the Spartan warriors prove an invaluable ally. Defending their state, the Greek forces drive the Persian empire out of Southern Greece and turn the strait between northern and southern Greece into a warzone. Sparta and her allies manage to erect a wall around this state with better masonry than the Chinese could have hoped to accomplish with the great wall. Using the wall to defend itself, Greece flourishes under a monarchy consisting of King Leonidas and his wife Gorgo, whom reinforce the Greek coffers and swell their military ranks. Greece survives, but with almost two-thirds of their land under Persian control, Greece finds itself without allies and is cut off from Europe for the most part.

 

Consequently, in 334 BC the Persian Empire has used the ex-Greece homeland as a foothold into Europe. The Persian horde, that had swelled over the years of their own prosperity, goes north into Europe and western Asia. No force is able to prevent their expansion, and the entire continent of Europe is taken, along with Western Russia. The Persian horde is stopped at China, however, and through China, southern Asia and eastern Asia are kept safe.

 

In 567 AD, Persia continues a campaign South across the ocean between Spain and Morocco into Africa. The still primitive tribes have no chance versus the now modernized and technologically superior Persian force.

 

Shortly after Muhammad is born; but despite his prophetic nature, he is regarded as only a messenger. Islam is never born, as Jesus had his message carried far by the Persian empire, which had already spanned across half the western world and half the known east.

 

With Africa under it's thumb, Persia now safely controls most of the world as they know it.

 

In 1567, with the discovery of the new world by Persian explorer Ali Farrid, Persia instantly moves west. In the thousands of years that they have been allowed to evolve, Persia has now become the most advanced technological civilization on earth, and Christianity has become widespread. Greece is the only western country on earth with a modernized democracy, but as they are a small and boxed in country, they are unable to spread their ideals to the rest of the world.

 

The native Americans of both America's are taken by storm as Persian settlers move across from the Old world to the New world. At this time, at least 65% of the world is under Persian control.

 

In 1776, China defies probability and odds by moving from behind their own borders into northern Asia. Seizing Siberia and most of Russia by force, China overwhelms the thin, spread out Persian force quickly and instantly claims half of Asia as it's own. Expanding walls, defenses, and fortresses, China uses their vast resources along with the Russian terrain to defend their new land successfully. In the meantime, some Persian immigrants in the New World near the east coast rise up in protest against the far east Persian monarchy. They are crushed ruthlessly, and no other uprisings ever occur.

 

In 1865, China allies with all south, southeastern, and eastern Asian countries, including Japan, India, and Australia. Pushing west, the new empire of Asia under the monarchy of China (Kong Tourong the III) the Persians are driven out of Europe. Declared as World War I, millions of Asian and Persian troops die. Estimated casualties at the end of the war in 1874 are estimated to be almost 700 million on both sides. Greece, by itself, allies itself with the Asian Empire. The barely standing Democracy is instantly converted into a monarchy under Kong Tourong.

 

In 1923 another war breaks out as the Persian Empire attacks from Alaska and northern Africa. The Asian Empire defeats the Persians and delivers a fatal counterblow into the heart of Africa. Weakened, the Persians retreat into the America's which have long since been conquered. Only two states exist at this time: Asia and Persia.

 

In 1985, the nuclear bomb is initially tested in the waters south of the Asian province of Korea. It is a huge success. Only a year later, in 1986, do the Persian's test the same theory on a deserted island (named Cuba), and the results match the bomb at Korea.

 

Without hesitation, both empires launch nuclear bombs at one another. A huge war breaks out, and most of Africa is obliterated by nuclear warfare. The civilian casualties on both sides mount up, as the entire east coast of America is littered with nuclear waste and shells.

 

By 1992 the world is practically a nuclear cesspool. The shelling has stopped, and civilian casualties have mounted to over three billion. Military fights continue across hot spots in the world between Asia and Persia, including such areas as Alaska, Antarctica, Spain, Iceland, and Greenland. In order to keep troops and civilians safe, both sides invent nuclear HEV suits, which becomes standard gear for human survival in the nuclear wastes left of most battlefields. Neither empire is able to continue Nuclear shelling, as it would be too risky to hit their own soldiers.

 

By 2000, the world is a waste and not a single major city has survived. In order to survive, one must be in a HEV suit or in a shelter. There are a few places where the nuclear wastes have not seeped in, such as valleys, but these places are few and scarce. The surviving humans travel in bands, or alone and without shelter. Nature is gone; there is only craters and corpses.

 

By January, 2008, both the Asian and the Persian empires cease the war. They retreat to lick their wounds and treat them, even though their strength is barely enough to support even the civilians they have left. No more society exists, and only the shattered remnant of the government can provide any more shelter, food, or clean oxygen. Living in this post-apocalyptic zone, it's only a matter of time before resources run out, and humans become extinct, leaving behind only a nuclear charred world.

 

__________________________

 

 

 

Yeah. I don't think it would have ever actually gotten this bad if democracy never existed (ie, Athens was destroyed by Persia) and if Persia had a tactical point with which to attack Europe (Greece) but it's possible. :-s I guess.

[Rebdragon]

 

What would have happened if the Axis powers had won WWII?

 

 

 

I'd be speaking Japanese, for one.

 

 

 

But Japanese is AWESOME!

 

 

 

:

 

Meh, they've got what, 46 syllables in the entire language? Pretty drab and repetitive if you ask me :-w .

[raven_gaurd0]

Touche salesman. Touche. =D>

[stillakid]

Jesus was never born? Would something or someone take his place?

We'd most probably be (or have) Jewish upbringing. Many religious wars between Islam and Judaism might have occurred in the last 2000 years, there would have been no Nazi Genocide as we know it. Jews wouldn't have been secluded to commercial jobs in Europe, and thus mercantilism, capitalism and Marxism probably wouldn't have existed, so we'd probably have a completely different world economical system.

 

 

 

Wrong, Christianity spread, not Judaism. There are far too few Jews to compete with the spread of Islam.

 

 

 

 

 

 

jesus is jewish. judaism and christianity split off because we don't believe jesus was a profit... and other stuff. question...

 

 

 

where would jesus go? temple or church.

 

 

 

:?:

[Rebdragon]

Wrong, Christianity spread, not Judaism. There are far too few Jews to compete with the spread of Islam.

 

 

 

 

jesus is jewish. judaism and christianity split off because we don't believe jesus was a profit... and other stuff. question...

 

 

 

where would jesus go? temple or church.

 

 

 

:?:

 

They never "split off" per se. Judaism had been around for a couple thousand years before Christianity, Christ came, and people started becoming Christians because of him. It wasn't like the only people that converted to Christianity were Jews; people just started liking the new religion and got it going.

[meol]

Jesus was never born? Would something or someone take his place?

We'd most probably be (or have) Jewish upbringing. Many religious wars between Islam and Judaism might have occurred in the last 2000 years, there would have been no Nazi Genocide as we know it. Jews wouldn't have been secluded to commercial jobs in Europe, and thus mercantilism, capitalism and Marxism probably wouldn't have existed, so we'd probably have a completely different world economical system.

 

 

 

Wrong, Christianity spread, not Judaism. There are far too few Jews to compete with the spread of Islam.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that Darkmage's original intention was to say that, had Jesus never existed, Islam and not Judaism, would have spread across Europe.

 

 

 

jesus is jewish. judaism and christianity split off because we don't believe jesus was a profit... and other stuff. question...

 

 

 

where would jesus go? temple or church.

 

 

 

:?:

[ThurinEthir]

we don't believe jesus was a profit...

 

:lol:

 

I couldn't help it.

 

 

 

Raven_Guard - Athens (The city) was destroyed by the Persians during the Persian War, but the people escaped to Salamis. Just saying. And I said something along those lines a while ago, and Zonorhc disagreed...Strongly...

 

But if somehow, ancient democracy was ended during the time of the Greeks, I'm sure the idea would've popped up eventually. If I remember correctly, the Iroquois used a democracy, and I'm pretty sure they didn't know who the Greeks were.

 

 

 

And I'll suppose I'll give an answer to my own question - What would've happened if the British won the Revolutionary War?

 

I suppose that Britain and Spain would've eventually fought a huge war over North America. The French would join on the Spanish side, and so would quite a lot of other European countries. The British would have their list of allies, and gigantic battles would be fought. The Spanish and French would've won, and North America would've been split among numerous European countries, and would basically be a second Europe. (A bunch of small-ish countries...) France would probably take Britain, and the French and the Spanish would be superpowers, instead of Britain and America.

[raven_gaurd0]

we don't believe jesus was a profit...

 

:lol:

 

I couldn't help it.

 

 

 

Raven_Guard - Athens (The city) was destroyed by the Persians during the Persian War, but the people escaped to Salamis. Just saying. And I said something along those lines a while ago, and Zonorhc disagreed...Strongly...

 

But if somehow, ancient democracy was ended during the time of the Greeks, I'm sure the idea would've popped up eventually. If I remember correctly, the Iroquois used a democracy, and I'm pretty sure they didn't know who the Greeks were.

 

 

 

And I'll suppose I'll give an answer to my own question - What would've happened if the British won the Revolutionary War?

 

I suppose that Britain and Spain would've eventually fought a huge war over North America. The French would join on the Spanish side, and so would quite a lot of other European countries. The British would have their list of allies, and gigantic battles would be fought. The Spanish and French would've won, and North America would've been split among numerous European countries, and would basically be a second Europe. (A bunch of small-ish countries...) France would probably take Britain, and the French and the Spanish would be superpowers, instead of Britain and America.

 

 

 

I know about the Athens thing, I was just saying if the people died along with the city. Guess I shoulda spelled that out.

[darkmage099]

What would happen if the english guy who sugested the existence of atoms (forgot his name) never had been born?

 

 

 

John Dalton? Well I think atomic theory would have sprung up but perhaps at a later time. People thought of matter in a particulate nature centuries before Dalton. He just formulated Atomic theory which (the core of it, anyway) stands to this day.

I'm aware a greek phlosopher thought of this it is just something intresting to think about.

 

 

 

Democritus? Yeah, nothing would have changed. It was more like this:

 

 

 

man1: I discovered atoms

 

man2: You're right

 

man3: some guy before suggested this thousands of years ago, but it had no influence on your present day discovery.

 

man1: Yeah, but let's give him some credit.

 

 

 

 

 

Something like that.

 

 

 

Dalton formed the basic theory of matter including the nature of atoms, elements and compounds, the latter being in fixed ratios of elements . ** Did Democritus or any other early thinkers say anything about compounds?

 

 

 

**Edit: He also devised the first concept of atomic mass, probably why an amu (atomic mass unit) is these days alternately called a Dalton.

 

 

 

Yes, I understand that, but my point was, AFAIK, these discoveries by Dalton were independent of Democritus' philosophies. I'm almost positive that compounds were not discussed because this theory of Democritus' was rejected by many thinkers of the time, namely Aristotle.

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus was never born? Would something or someone take his place?

We'd most probably be (or have) Jewish upbringing. Many religious wars between Islam and Judaism might have occurred in the last 2000 years, there would have been no Nazi Genocide as we know it. Jews wouldn't have been secluded to commercial jobs in Europe, and thus mercantilism, capitalism and Marxism probably wouldn't have existed, so we'd probably have a completely different world economical system.

 

 

 

Wrong, Christianity spread, not Judaism. There are far too few Jews to compete with the spread of Islam.

 

 

 

 

 

 

jesus is jewish. judaism and christianity split off because we don't believe jesus was a profit... and other stuff. question...

 

 

 

where would jesus go? temple or church.

 

 

 

:?:

 

Yes, but Judaism would have never spread to Rome and eventually to everywhere in Europe. Paul of Tarsus was forced to leave Israel and preach elsewhere. As far as I know, from that point on it was spread by the pupils of Paul (and other dudes?). The rapid spread of Christianity to Europe had little to do with Jesus.

[Zonorhc]

Going back further than a hundred years or so makes it impossible to get a decent idea of what the alternate present would be like, because there are so many variables to consider.

[Necromagus]

Democritus pretty much only contributed the name 'atom'. His idea of atoms is that everything gives off small particles, which we take in through our eyes. According to him, if we take in horse particles and man particles and we mix them in our mind, we dream of centaurs.

[TheLastTemplar]

OH! I got one!

 

 

 

What if God wasn't in control!?! :|

[raven_gaurd0]

OH! I got one!

 

 

 

What if God wasn't in control!?! :|

 

 

 

Well in this hypothetical situation, God would undeniably exist (I believe He does, at least :D ) , would therefore prove everything in the Bible true, and therefore would be in control. So He is in control. No matter what.

 

 

 

In the case He exists but isn't in control, who WOULD be in control? And in control of what?

[warri0r45]

Yes, I understand that, but my point was, AFAIK, these discoveries by Dalton were independent of Democritus' philosophies. I'm almost positive that compounds were not discussed because this theory of Democritus' was rejected by many thinkers of the time, namely Aristotle.

 

 

 

Ohk, I misinterpreted, sorry.

[TheLastTemplar]

OH! I got one!

 

 

 

What if God wasn't in control!?! :|

 

 

 

Well in this hypothetical situation, God would undeniably exist (I believe He does, at least :D ) , would therefore prove everything in the Bible true, and therefore would be in control. So He is in control. No matter what.

 

 

 

In the case He exists but isn't in control, who WOULD be in control? And in control of what?

 

Nice, I do believe in God also!

[crimsonking]

OH! I got one!

 

 

 

What if God wasn't in control!?! :|

 

 

 

Well in this hypothetical situation, God would undeniably exist (I believe He does, at least :D ) , would therefore prove everything in the Bible true, and therefore would be in control. So He is in control. No matter what.

 

 

 

In the case He exists but isn't in control, who WOULD be in control? And in control of what?

 

 

 

Not to try and start an arguement here, but even if we had undeniable proof of God's existance, we would have no proof of any of the events that took place in the bible unless he/she gave it to us him/herself or we found it ourselves.

 

 

 

And to answer the question, either we would have control of ourselves or some other mystical being, perhaps satan, would.

[Biabf]

What if electricity wasn't invented?

 

Wow, just...wow....Do you seriously think humanity invented electricity? Or was that just improperly worded, did you mean what if electricity was never discovered and/or harnessed and used?

Yeah sorry if it wasn't clear. I meant discovered it.

[Howlin0001]

On January 7, 1922 the DÃÆÃâÃâáil on a vote of 64 to 57 denied the Anglo-Irish. The British went into an all out war with Ireland. Michael Collins with the help of the IRA(among other armies) defended Ireland the best they could. Ireland got massive support from the Irish(and other nations) all over the world and British was severely attacked by most countries for attacking Ireland.

 

The years 1922 to 1924 saw every country under British control rising up against them, soon the British realised that they were never going to win this time, in Ireland or any other country rising up against them, so they let all the country's have there lands back. But on the condition that Ireland stay part of the United Kingdom. No one in Ireland agreed to that, in fact the other countries rising up against the British did not pass this.

 

Shortly the British gave them back the lands but kept Ireland anyway.

 

After another year and alot of England and Ireland destroyed by bombings and fighting and millions dead from either famine or war.

 

But alas Ireland was losing from the amount of people they have lost to the war and was just about to throw the towel in when, they got word that there was help on the way from the Americans and the countries who got there freedom.

 

A great fire had just re-lighted in stomachs of the Irish(not seen since before the killing of Michael Collins nearly a year ago).

 

Suddenly the British soldiers were running with there tails behind there legs when they heard of all the new support the Irish were getting and now they wanted to give Ireland all there land back and compensation for all the damage they have done.

 

 

 

Ireland was declared a 32 county Republic on the 22 August 1926. on the first anniversary of the death of Michael Collins.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Please note :This is a work of fiction and not ment to be attacking any one or country.