Summoning and its effects on PvP?

[craven_range]

Summoning And its effects On PvP

 

-A discussion on the effects of summoning in pvp style combat-

 

 

 

I think summoning will really ruin the fun of these type of games, for one, PvP means player vs player. Fair enough summoning is a combat skill, but in my opinion this should only be used for PvM, which i believe is what this skill was made for.

 

 

 

At the moment in world 24, castle wars is hectic as it is, without the large amount of potential summoned creatures.

 

 

 

One argument is that summoning adds more diversity, though this is the case i still do not think that it should be included, as the traditional PvP worked well, and Castle Wars was quite tactical.

 

 

 

Another point is that this brings the fairness of the game into question. Summoning is the first combat skill that has a high cost of training involved. Although prayer can also be pointed out as expensive, it can also be free for those with less money than others. This re defines the distribution of power in the game, making the rich even more powerful while the poor are comparatibly weaker. I do believe that the fairness should be kept relatively equal as it was.

 

 

 

If summoning were to be not allowed in Castle Wars, then the effects of your combat level can also be discussed, though this is not really an issue in castle wars because of the games nature.

 

Summoning and the effects in the duel arena can also be discussed, though i have not tested this yet but i believe there may be some type of feature to toggle summoning on/off during a duel, if so then this should not be an issue.

 

 

 

I would like to hear other peoples opinoins on this matter, and see some good points from the other side of this argument.

 

 

 

Disadvantadges of Summoning in PvP

 

~Player vs Player will not be just that anymore.

 

~Lag issues

 

~Ruin the fun IMO

 

~The distribution of power in PvP is aimed even more towards the rich

 

 

 

Advantages of Summoning in PvP

 

~Will allow for new types of pures. (SiestaGuru)

 

 

 

Please do not post on my thread with comments that do not relate to the discussion of Summonings effects on PvP, specifically Caslte Wars.

 

My opinion expressed in this topic is exactly that, my opinion.

[S_4_N_T_3_H]

I totally agree. :-k

[Danqazmlp]

Apart from the lag it seems ok to me. It will add new strategies to castle wars for sure (one acts like d/z spear special)

 

 

 

Only problem i have is how utterly weak summonables are, i can't see me running for my life from something that can barely hit 3 on me.

[SiestaGuru]

It creates more diversity in ways of killing your opponent.

 

 

 

The current system of killing each other is too simple, this makes it much more complex (complex = good).

 

 

 

Will allow for new types of pures.

 

 

 

Its more fun (I disagree wit you on this point)

[monkeyboo2]

hmmm well PvP no longer matters since the duelling update/wilderness update...It has no use.

 

But i think its fair that monsters can fight players. If yu have a roughly even match in summoning, your monsters will cancel out each other anyway; i don't see a problem.

[warshadow212]

Technically, then, you could say we don't need prayer either. It drains away, while you use (commonly) a protection prayer. While it only does protection up to 50% of a human opponent's assault (within CW, BH, or Duel Arena), it's still a buffer -- you're only delaying the points from being taken away from yourself.

 

 

 

You have 50 hp. Your opponent has 60 hp.

 

-> You're getting hit 10 pts of damage (let's say this was all melee, for sake of simplicity); you're hitting on the opponent up to 6 damage but hitting consistently. He can potentially hit you up to 10 pts of damage. You have no food.

 

-> You turn on Protect from Melee - 50% protection + the ability to evade attacks twice as normal.

 

-> Opponent hits a 4 on ya. Prayer drains.

 

-> Opponent hits a 4 on ya. Prayer drains.

 

-> Opponent hits a 4 on ya. Prayer drains.

 

-> Opponent hits a 5 on ya. Prayer drains.

 

-> Opponent hits a 6 on ya. Prayer drains.

 

-> Opponent hits a 6 on ya. Prayer drains.

 

-> Opponent hits a 7 on ya. Prayer drains - you're done on prayer pts.

 

-> Opponent hits the final 4 on ya. You're dead.

 

 

 

Basically if you had no prayer, you'd have been done with a lot sooner than with prayer.

 

 

 

Using Summoning acts just like protection. Let's say you have a scroll for the [insert metal] bull rush, using a minotaur.

 

 

 

You're at 12 hp. Your opponent is at 10 hp. No prayers. He can hit you with 14 using a warhammer, while you got a scroll for Adamant Bull Rush using your Adamant Minotaur. You hit first, get a lucky 10 on him (the scroll hits up to 16, plus a stun on the opponent). He's dead.

 

 

 

Lucky the Wildy was taken out, we'd have heard so many more "prayer nubs" and "summy nubs"

 

 

 

~WSW~

[jessy87]

but the biggest pvp area no longer allows for pvp, so i see no real reason for it be cried over

 

 

 

 

 

im not say YOU are. but someone some where is going to/has

[maddudy]

remeber theres still going to more mosters coming out so wait and see how the new ones do

[craven_range]

but the biggest pvp area no longer allows for pvp, so i see no real reason for it be cried over

 

 

 

im not say YOU are. but someone some where is going to/has

 

 

 

im not crying over summoning, or its effects on wilderness (which doesnt exist)

 

 

 

but i am worried that my favourite thing to do in runescape "cws" will be ruined

[Soulthresher]

Well, summoning will give more strategy to the game during PvP.

 

 

 

The lag may be an issue for 56k users but I believe that Jagex has thought this update through and through with the connection and game engine.

 

 

 

I don't see how it ruins the fun. Gives people even more reasons to use summoning in PvP opportunities.

 

 

 

Unequal distribution of power...huh? I guess barrows, Bandos, Ancient Magiks, Lunar Magic, etc., wasn't enough. Its not really an issue, if someone cannot afford to raise their summoning, thats their problem. You have to adapt to each situation. This seems like an arguement from a pure. You give up a part of combat or fail to raise it high enough, you suffer the consequences.

 

 

 

A summoning pure seems highly unlikely to me, but thats just my opinion.

[zara]

Summoning Cost

 

 

 

Your main argument is a bit weak. Your saying that out of the other combat stats, Summoning is the first that requires money to level? I think you forgot to add up the cost of armour and weapons for warriors, runes and robes for mages, and arrows and dragonhide for rangers. And as far as prayer goes, that skill requires enormous amounts of money and patience to obtain a high level.

 

 

 

Just because you are forced to buy Spirit Shards and Pouches, does not make it that much different from the other skills. No one in Runescape went from level 3-99 in any melee stat using only there fists, and as far as magic or prayer, they are also very expensive skills to train.

 

 

 

Castle Wars

 

Also, I believe that with the new Summoning skill, Castle Wars will become extremely more strategic. With dozens of new monsters to summon to perform various tasks, the weaker players that couldn't hit the higher players in dragon would be able to do there fair share to help there team out.

 

 

 

Other Advantages

 

I think some people are neglecting the skill side of Summoning. Not all the summoned monsters are for combat only, in fact the majority benefit your other skills more then they would in a fight! Runecrafters are now able to hold even more runes, wood cutters are able to hack down trees quicker, and the new birds eye view will help greatly in Imp Catching! Plus, only half of the monsters have been released and skilling combinations of Summon Monsters are just starting to be put into effect.

 

 

 

 

 

I think that summoning has more pro's then con's.

[craven_range]

Well, summoning will give more strategy to the game during PvP.

 

 

 

The lag may be an issue for 56k users but I believe that Jagex has thought this update through and through with the connection and game engine.

 

 

 

I don't see how it ruins the fun. Gives people even more reasons to use summoning in PvP opportunities.

 

 

 

Unequal distribution of power...huh? I guess barrows, Bandos, Ancient Magiks, Lunar Magic, etc., wasn't enough. Its not really an issue, if someone cannot afford to raise their summoning, thats their problem. You have to adapt to each situation. This seems like an arguement from a pure. You give up a part of combat or fail to raise it high enough, you suffer the consequences.

 

 

 

A summoning pure seems highly unlikely to me, but thats just my opinion.

 

 

 

a summoning pure is impossible, unless its made by an extremely rich lvl 3 skiller.

 

because pures cant be made by cheaters that swap things from their main to there pure.

[Blackarch2]

Can you say no pets option? (such as duels)

 

 

 

Although monsters can only help you in combat if you're in a multi-combat area. :wink:

[Rsdude099]

I know these things so far, and that is that they fight with you in the duel arena, but they dont help you in a cb ring in your house. You can only use scrolls in POH's. Probably different with dungeons, however...

[zara]

a summoning pure is impossible, unless its made by an extremely rich lvl 3 skiller.

 

because pures cant be made by cheaters that swap things from their main to there pure.

 

 

 

Also, there will be no such thing as a summoning pure about level 19 summoning. After the initial Gold Charms run out, how on earth will a level 3 (around level 6 by this point with 19 summoning) be able to acquire more charms?

 

 

 

Hybrid Summon/Ranging Pures or Summoning/Maging Pures will be possible, but not strictly a Summoning Pure.

[jessy87]

but the biggest pvp area no longer allows for pvp, so i see no real reason for it be cried over

 

 

 

im not say YOU are. but someone some where is going to/has

 

 

 

im not crying over summoning, or its effects on wilderness (which doesnt exist)

 

 

 

but i am worried that my favourite thing to do in runescape "cws" will be ruined

 

 

 

 

 

lol, i should proof read before posting, like i said. im not saying(left out ING last time) you are crying.

 

 

 

i agree, i love CW but, ruined? doubt... unless people get war tortises and flag hold.

[craven_range]

but the biggest pvp area no longer allows for pvp, so i see no real reason for it be cried over

 

 

 

im not say YOU are. but someone some where is going to/has

 

 

 

im not crying over summoning, or its effects on wilderness (which doesnt exist)

 

 

 

but i am worried that my favourite thing to do in runescape "cws" will be ruined

 

 

 

 

 

lol, i should proof read before posting, like i said. im not saying(left out ING last time) you are crying.

 

 

 

i agree, i love CW but, ruined? doubt... unless people get war tortises and flag hold.

 

 

 

thanks, i am not complaining or saying the world is going to end, as ill be the first to admit, if someone shows me a good reason as to why summoning would be great in PvP then my opinion will be swayed

[Soulthresher]

but the biggest pvp area no longer allows for pvp, so i see no real reason for it be cried over

 

 

 

im not say YOU are. but someone some where is going to/has

 

 

 

im not crying over summoning, or its effects on wilderness (which doesnt exist)

 

 

 

but i am worried that my favourite thing to do in runescape "cws" will be ruined

 

 

 

 

 

lol, i should proof read before posting, like i said. im not saying(left out ING last time) you are crying.

 

 

 

i agree, i love CW but, ruined? doubt... unless people get war tortises and flag hold.

 

 

 

thanks, i am not complaining or saying the world is going to end, as ill be the first to admit, if someone shows me a good reason as to why summoning would be great in PvP then my opinion will be swayed

 

 

 

The only creditable reason you've given for summoning not being a good PvP asset is that PvP is Player Vs Player, not Player+Familiar Vs Player+Familiar.

[777thzapster]

With the summoning balance issue getting cleared up and the shards being half of what they used to.... Summoning isn't going to be done by the most rich, its more about people that are willing to use the simple ways of leveling and the cheapest route that actually use less money.

 

 

 

If you really wanted to you can buy raw rat meat or iron ore, and use gold charms all the way up to your desired level, with the shards price coming down 6-9 shards a time isn't horrible exp and will actually raise your level eventually.

 

 

 

I myself am not rich by any means and I'm already level 33, it does take dedication and time, but we all know the charms take time to get. It is only the 2nd day the skill has been released, give it some time before you say it's busting Castle Wars, I think it will add a nice 4th deminsion to combat that we have needed for a while now.

[alphakoldes]

 

 

 

-I think summoning will really ruin the fun of these type of games, for one, PvP means player vs player.

 

 

 

-Player vs Player will not be just that anymore.

 

 

 

I don't agree with this. Just because you have a monster/pet/summon with you, it doesn't mean it's no longer Player versus Player. The familiar is just an extension from you. You still worked up your character, you still paid the costs, you still put in the time, you still are the one controlling the actions, and you are still repeating the benefits. It's still player v player, just more in depth. (as has been stated)

[jessy87]

seriously, unless the new things are CHEAPLY made pouches, i seriously doubt it will be used alot.

 

 

 

 

 

especially the 1's that drain stats or w/e

[Knight_Zaros]

Summoning And its effects On PvP

 

-A discussion on the effects of summoning in pvp style combat-

 

 

 

I think summoning will really ruin the fun of these type of games, for one, PvP means player vs player. Fair enough summoning is a combat skill, but in my opinion this should only be used for PvM, which i believe is what this skill was made for.

 

 

 

At the moment in world 24, castle wars is hectic as it is, without the large amount of potential summoned creatures.

 

 

 

One argument is that summoning adds more diversity, though this is the case i still do not think that it should be included, as the traditional PvP worked well, and Castle Wars was quite tactical.

 

 

 

Another point is that this brings the fairness of the game into question. Summoning is the first combat skill that has a high cost of training involved. Although prayer can also be pointed out as expensive, it can also be free for those with less money than others. This re defines the distribution of power in the game, making the rich even more powerful while the poor are comparatibly weaker. I do believe that the fairness should be kept relatively equal as it was.

 

 

 

If summoning were to be not allowed in Castle Wars, then the effects of your combat level can also be discussed, though this is not really an issue in castle wars because of the games nature.

 

Summoning and the effects in the duel arena can also be discussed, though i have not tested this yet but i believe there may be some type of feature to toggle summoning on/off during a duel, if so then this should not be an issue.

 

 

 

I would like to hear other peoples opinoins on this matter, and see some good points from the other side of this argument.

 

 

 

Disadvantadges of Summoning in PvP

 

~Player vs Player will not be just that anymore.

 

~Lag issues

 

~Ruin the fun IMO

 

~The distribution of power in PvP is aimed even more towards the rich

 

 

 

Advantages of Summoning in PvP

 

~Will allow for new types of pures. (SiestaGuru)

 

 

 

Please do not post on my thread with comments that do not relate to the discussion of Summonings effects on PvP, specifically Caslte Wars.

 

My opinion expressed in this topic is exactly that, my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

The duel arena can be toggled on and off. But since staking is dead anyway its pointless pretty much. However there are cases where summoning will be allowed in the duel tournaments. And about the cost there are already methods of cheaper cost, doesnt mean fast, but still. God forbid we have another fletching skill. We dont need 99's in a week or two (IMO).

 

 

 

Also magic is really price as well, especially with recent GE changes, highalching is pretty much not profitable unless you get lucky on some prices, or are gathering your own materials to alch. So magic is very costly if you have to buy your own runes.

[Rsdude099]

Magic isnt that bad, cosmics are like 165 to 180 gp a rune. I bought like 3.754k for 684k a couple of days ago to train to 70. I have them still, working on it atm. Mage training arena ftw. Down with High Alch.

[Knight_Zaros]

Mage arena is very slow though only downside. But I do agree generally about summoning, and its affects on PVP. will be interested to see what the players come up with for summoning, and how Jagex will have to nerf it and adjust.

[craven_range]

Mage arena is very slow though only downside. But I do agree generally about summoning, and its affects on PVP. will be interested to see what the players come up with for summoning, and how Jagex will have to nerf it and adjust.

 

 

 

good point zaros. its gotta be nerfed or fixed soon? jagex never gets things right the first time :-k