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PoorLepRecon

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There are enough priority users to break sashes. Steal Rock is horribly overpowered, to the point of renegating many pokemon to UU and even NU, since they loose 50% of their health by only coming in.

 

That and it's not like Rapid spin is that widespread, only a select few can use it and even fewer can use it properly.

 

And like you said, every other entry hazard has some kind of drawback, but stealth rock? It's omniprescent, completely overpowered and absolutely no drawback.

 

So unless they nerf it to 25% max or 12.5% max, i can't see how it is a "Fair, balanced" move.

 

Also, Only Ice types are immune to hail, Water and Steel types all get hit by it.

 

So yeah, there are enough tools for everyone to break sashes without using a move that completely cripples some pokemon that otherwise would be mainstays in OU.

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Rapid Spin removes entry hazards through ghosts types now, so I see little reason why it would be hard to remove stealth rock from play.

 

I'm pretty sure waters and steels are immune. My Swampert in-game doesn't take hail damage and Lucario (when I used it as a lead) didn't have its sash broken by Abomasnows.

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Summons hail for 5 turns. If the user is holding the item Icy Rock, it lasts for 8 turns instead. Does 1/16 damage to all Pokémon except Ice types and those with the Snow Cloak ability. Blizzard is 100% accurate (and has a chance to hit through Detect and Protect equal to 100% minus the accuracy against a non-Protecting opponent). Moonlight, Morning Sun, and Synthesis heal 1/4 of the user's maximum HP.

 

This is from smogon's Hail entrance for Gen 4.

 

Plus, unless it has completely skiped through me, Rapid spin still doesn't eliminate anything if the hit doesn't land, there was some suspicion because of the new item called "aiming mark", which suposely made every attack hit, despite type immunities, but it works in reverse, as in the ghost had to be holding it for a rapid spin to work in there, so unless you make a tricking Starmie, not gona make Rapid Spin any more efficient than it is now.

 

That, and like i said before, Sashes aren't that frequent aside from leads (maybe related to SR, but i think it's more due to switch in problems), and most teams have priority squeezed in somewhere. I guess there would be an increase in usage, but not by much.

 

Also, ther is no denying loosing 25%, or even 12% of your health by simply switching in is outrageous. Going as far as renegating any Fire type but Infernape and Heatran to UU or NU. Charizard would be a very viable, and even great pokemon in OU would it not be for Stealth rock.

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Priority doesn't cure the focus sash problem. With stealth rock gone, any rock + ground immune (because hail is rarely used), such as Aerodactyl, can indefinitely revenge kill unless it lacks the ability to severely damage. You could switch in something with a priority attack, but then the Aerodactyl just switches out. Other priority attacks won't OHKO Aero anyway on the revenge kill, making Aerodactyl more or less guarantee a KO every game (again, apart from pokemon Aerodactyl cannot harm, such as Skarmory).

 

Thus, the only surefire way to prevent it from doing so is to smack it with Pursuit once, which can easily be predicted and used to your advantage. For example, if your opponent switches in Tyranitar after you bring in Aero on a revenge kill, hop over to Lucario. Either you make minimal damage from the Crunch/Stone Edge, or you take no damage because Pursuit hit Aerodactyl.

 

It does change the game, true. But what I feel we have forgotten as this game as moved on is that we are players. It's not right to just ban something because we don't like it. Certain stuff is blatantly overpowered, such as allowing Lugia in standard play. But others not so much. I don't think it's right to ban a move because it changes the metagame. That's what the metagame is. It's how players work with what they are given, not how players make to rules to suit what they believe is fair.

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Yes, I agree 50% is way too harsh, although 25% seems more acceptable to me (same as 3x Spikes). Imo, if you're weak to rock, no matter how weak, you take 25%. Similarly, if you resist it, you take 6.25%, no matter how many times you do.

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Hey! It looks like someone might be interested in a Jirachi... Here is what I'm looking for

 

Arceus (any level and nature)

Shaymin (any level any nature)

Deoxys (any level any nature)

Palkia ( level 1 any nature with benificial attack)

Giratina ( level 1 any nature with benificial special attack)

 

also looking for level 2 leafeon and glaceon (post natures and I will consider them)

 

I know that this isn't on the pokemon thread so don't tell me that.

 

Post if interested.

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So I went ahead and made the tournament signup thread. I'll open the signup for 2 weeks, after which I'll start the first round. It's exactly as Kc suggested, Gen 1 and 2 only and via simulators.

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/278872-tif-pokemon-tournaments-thread/

 

If this could be linked to on the OP, that would be appreciated.

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Does anyone use pokemon online here? Shoddy battle and pokelab are just so..cold.. :unsure:

I mean it's the buttons. I like colors, and stuff. But i'm stupid like that. Smogon has no new info besides theorymonning on the gen 5 pokes, are you guys running any at the moment? Here is my team for gen5 OU, on pokemon online:

 

Jarooda @ Choice Scarf w/ Timid Nature

252 SpA, 252 Speed, 4 Def

Leaf Storm

NOTHING ELSE.

With her ability, perversify, instead of leaf storm costing her two spA stages per use, it raises it two per use. With this setup she is around 540 speed, and can take a super effective non-critical once. She often sweeps as long as she dosen't get tormented, or the other dude has priority moves.

 

Roobushin @ Leftovers w/ Adamant Nature

252 Hp, 252 Atk, 4 Speed

Bulk Up

Mach Punch

Drain Punch

Stone Edge

Ability : Iron Fist (Increases the power of punching moves)

 

After two or three bulk ups, this guy can sweep with Mach Punch(40 power priority move).

Or he can use a drain punch to OHKO and get back to full hp.

 

Electivire @ Expert Belt w/ Mild Nature

24 Atk, 240 SpA, 244 Speed

Thunderbolt

Hidden Power Dark

Cross Chop

Volt Change (U-turn for electric)

 

Just standard electivire from smogon's moveset.

 

Gyarados @ Leftovers w/ Adamant Nature

156 Hp, 60 Atk, 96 Def, 196 Speed

Dragon Dance

Taunt

Waterfall

Bounce

 

Another sweeper, he might need reworking because of gen 5 though. He is doing decent now however.

Bounce is awesome on shaymin's and celebis, super effective and if you get in a ddance to outspeed them you can avoid their Sleep Powder\Spore\Stun Spore\Toxics

 

Erufuun @ Leftovers w/ Calm Nature

252 Hp, 56 SpD, 200 Speed

Encore

Leech Seed

Substitute

Energy Ball

 

Erufuun...will probably be ubers soon. It's ability mischievous heart makes it so non-attacking moves get priority. Leech seed them on the first turn, take a hit and sub the next turn. I'll probably add wish support as I can't really sub after taking a hit too often with her. I'm thinking togekiss to replace electivire.

 

Shandera @ Focus Sash w/ Timid Nature

252 SpA, 252 Speed, 4 SpD

Fire Blast

Shadow Ball

Energy Ball

Overheat

 

This is to trap other Jarooda sweepers, it's really a glass cannon. With it's ability shadow tag, anything slower than that takes a super effective is dead, basically. Shadow tag makes it so the other pokemon cannot switch out. It's also fun to switch in on blaziken leads if you give it overheat and a choice scarf/hidden power water. But that's really a niche.

 

So, what do you guys think of the gen 5 metagame? At the moment it's all Salamences and gimmicks (illusion ability/eccentric dittos), I like to see cloyster coming back as a strong support\lead though :thumbsup: Big ups for the best Poke!

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With her ability, perversify, instead of leaf storm costing her two spA stages per use, it raises it two per use.

This was literally my first thought on reading about this ability. Though it would probably be pretty easy to wall. Lot of things resist the hell out of Grass. And, you know, Blissey.

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Even with resists after a +2 perversify she can 1HKO a non-bulky mon, and get another +2 in the process. Specifically the grass\steel lead everyone is currently using. That's good material to just perversify yourself up!

EDIT: Blissey. That's why I have the fighting mon. Protects are predictable to use bulk up with, and mach punch can take care of at least 2/3 of her max hp. After a few. I'm still working on this, but if this Jarooda isn't banned, then expect every team to run a counter specifically for her, otherwise she will devistate whatever you are thinking of doing.

 

I've also tried a few setups with Cloyster lead, setting up toxic spikes\stealth rock and running scarfed dragonite\salamence with dragon tail(does decent damage and forces the opponent to switch out to a random poke), but it has crap for priority, so the scarf is useless.

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You could 2hko Blissey. I know if Shaymin's Seed Flare scores a -2 spdef drop on Blissey, it's a goner.

 

Leaf Storm grants you a spatk boost, is more accurate, and has 20 more base power. I don't see Blissey being a problem.

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Yeah I would run some calculations but I'm assuming blissey wouldn't be a problem now. My friend did a writeup on Genosect, also, and we found out he is pretty useless. The more you know!

 

EDIT: Testing 252 spD blissey

 

+2 Leaf Storm

Jarooda used Leaf Storm!

The foe's Blissey lost 32% of its health!

+4 Leaf Storm

Jarooda used Leaf Storm!

The foe's Blissey lost 43% of its health!

+6 Leaf Storm

Jarooda used Leaf Storm!

The foe's Blissey lost 64% of its health!

So, blissey can still stand ground against this guy, and get off a toxic too. I probably should've put 252 into HP for testing purposes, but with 252 hp/spD she can withstand two +6 leaf storms, enough to softboil + toxic + softboil + siestoss and repeat. Leftovers helps too. I guess this stupid snake isn't as broken as I thought, lol

:unsure:

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But see, no one uses 252 spdef blissey. It's always 252 def.

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Yeah I was just testing on max spD. I'm trying to make Meloia.jpg Meloia good. She doesn't really help on my team, anyone have any ideas? My moveset is claw sharpen, ancient song, wake up slap, and sing. But that's just a gimmick really. If the opponent switches out after being sung to she is a goner. I can probably replace wake-up slap with superpower or the likes, but I don't know. She has to get off an Ancient Song to turn into her step forme, then she can get STAB from superpower\wakeupslap. Ancient song has a 10% chance to put the opponent to sleep, and she has serene grace but not many hax moves to abuse with it. At the moment she looks pretty useless unless she can fill a niche once the metagame gets more permanent. Sucks too, I'd really like to use her.

Also, rotom's lose their ghost typing. And rotom-w STILL doesn't learn rapid spin. What the hell, gamefreak.

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Does she need to use ancient song to turn in Step forme or can't she just turn into Step forme before combat, because if the latter is the case in hand, i can see this coming ni handy:

 

Meloetta (step forme)@Lum Berry/Life Orb

252 att, 252 Spe, 4 Hp

 

-Claw Sharpen

-Close Combat

-Shadow Claw

-Stone Edge

 

 

After one claw sharper, i think Stone Edge gets perfect accuracy and she gets a tremendous type coverage. It could work with some support.

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Does she need to use ancient song to turn in Step forme or can't she just turn into Step forme before combat, because if the latter is the case in hand, i can see this coming ni handy:

 

Meloetta (step forme)@Lum Berry/Life Orb

252 att, 252 Spe, 4 Hp

 

-Claw Sharpen

-Close Combat

-Shadow Claw

-Stone Edge

 

 

After one claw sharper, i think Stone Edge gets perfect accuracy and she gets a tremendous type coverage. It could work with some support.

 

 

She needs to get off Ancient Song. :wall:

 

My new Dreamworld Tier team for Pokemon online contains a scarfed Shaymin-s (sig related, friend made it for me), do you guys think she should be ubers again? There is a big discussion going on about it over at pokeleague. I personally don't think so. She has a lot of checks in gen 5.

 

 

Also, nice matchup on shoddy battle zapps :D

Edited by Cloyster
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At the risk of double posting I'm going to bump this thread with my current Pokemon-Online fifth gen dreamworld tier team. If anyone is interested that is..

 

Lots of baton passing, Espeon's mirror coat is amazing against all forms of non-attacking moves, especially with mischevious heart being so rampant at the moment. It bounces back taunt, encore, spore, stun spore, thunder wave, confuse ray, stealth rock, spikes, toxic spikes, toxic, and more. I love it. I am also using a new item, "Red Card". If someone hits me and doesn't knock me out in one hit, it forces them to switch out. I use it on Espeon and Emonga, if they have a sub up and the opponent breaks it, they are forced out, and a different teammate is randomly chosen. This only works once though

 

Alejandro (Ninjask) (M) @ Focus Sash

Trait: Speed Boost

EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef

Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)

- Substitute

- Protect

- Double Team

- Baton Pass

 

Starstruck (Espeon) (M) @ Red Card

Trait: Magic Mirror

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd

Hardy Nature

- Double Team

- Baton Pass

- Calm Mind

- Substitute

 

Telephone (Smeargle) (M) @ Focus Sash

Trait: Inconsistent

EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef

Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

- Calm Mind

- Cosmic Power

- Protect

- Baton Pass

 

Vanity (Emonga) (M) @ Red Card

Trait: Motor Drive

EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)

- Thunder

- Aerial Ace

- Air Slash

- Baton Pass

 

Just Dance (Kerudio) @ Leftovers

Trait: Justice Heart

EVs: 252 Def / 252 SDef

Hardy Nature

- Holy Sword

- Hidden Power [Electric]

- Surf

- Calm Mind

 

Bad Romance (Shaymin-S) @ Leftovers

Trait: Serene Grace

EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Air Slash

- Earth Power

- Seed Flare

- Hidden Power [ice]

 

 

 

Basically, no evasion clause yet, so abuse double team while you can. The strategy varies depending on the lead, if they are trying to set up rocks and spikes I just switch over to Espeon to bounce them back, if they are a fake out lead I normally protect and sub, alternating each turn until +6 speed from ninjask and then baton passing over to espeon to get in some calm minds. Then, I pass to smeargal and protect/cosmic power a few times if possible. Smeargal is rocking the inconsistent this gen and he is loving it as a baton passer. It randomly sharply (+2) increases one stat and slightly(-1) decreases one. Including evasion and accuracy. The best part about this is, espeon's magic coat reflects whirlwinds+roars, so I baton pass all these stats to emonga, and if they bring out a roarer at 1k+ speed I just baton pass over to espeon, and back. It works great.

I normally baton pass to Emonga first, because he has baton pass himself, and if something I don't like comes in I can always give the baton to Skymin or the water-pony.

Also, if they try to set up, as in nasty plot/calm mind for their own pokes, red card with a sub can make them switch out instantly.

 

What do you guys think? I know Emonga's moveset sucks.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Pokemon Wrighter Passes away

 

The scribe behind many of the early Pokemon television episodes is no longer with us.

 

Reports coming out of Japan are saying that Takeshi Shudo, an anime creator and the writer for a significant chunk of the Pokemon franchise, has suddenly passed away. He was rushed to the hospital earlier this week after collapsing at a train station.

 

The hospital determined that Shudo, 61, suffered a subarachnoid hemorrhage. Though he was given emergency surgery, Shudo wasn't able to recover and passed away on October 29.

 

Shudo worked on various anime franchises but was probably best known for the Pokemon series. He was the chief writer for the first few arcs of the Pokemon television show from 1997 to 2002, and also wrote the first three full-length Pokemon films.

 

To me, the most charming episodes of Pokemon were definitely those developed while Shudo was in charge. They were no War and Peace, but I never got tired of seeing Team Rocket blast off, or of Ash defeating arch-nemesis Gary. This is truly a sad day for any Pokemon fan.

 

 

May be old news, but I'll still post it here. The original series, Orange Islands and Jotho Adventure episodes were a big part of my childhood. May he rest in peace, and I give him my biggest condolences. :cry:

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  • 2 weeks later...

So, i've started playing Pokemon Online, the 5th gen simulator.

 

God is the metagame different. Offensive leads are everywhere, Stall is non-existant, set up moves are very hard to pull of and the candle screws up a lot of things.

 

My team so far is made of:

 

Machamp@Lum

Adamant

252 at, 230hp, 24spe

-Dynamicpunch

-Ice punch

-Payback

-Bullet Punch

 

Shandeera@Scarf

Modest

252SpA, 252Spe, 4 HP

-Fire Blast

-Shadow Ball

-Energy Ball

-Hidden Power (Water)

 

Onokoruso@Yache Berry

Adamant

252Att, 252Spe, 4HP

-Dragon Dance

-Outrage

-EarthQuake

-X-Scizor/Shadow Claw/Stone Edge

 

Starmie@Life Orb

Timid

252SpA, 252Spe, 4HP

-Surf/Hydro Pump

-Hidden Power Fire (Nattorei+Scizor are too much of a nuisance)

-Ice Beam

-Thunderbolt

 

Nattorei@Leftovers

Impish

200Def, 200SpD, 58 Att

-Power Whip

-Thunder Wave

-Stealth Rock

-Leech Seed

 

Burungueru@Leftovers

Calm

180Def, 200SpD, 78SpA

-Will-o-Whisp

-Toxic

-Hydro Pump

-Ice Beam

 

 

Nattorei+Burungueru are a better version pf Skarm Bliss and can annoy loads of people. Combined, they have Will-O-Whisp, Thunder Wave and Toxic, which WILL shut own lots of things, Stealth Rock, good type Coverage, no weaknesses combined and access to healing via Leech Seed.

 

Onokuruso is very hard to set up, but once it is it can tear some [cabbage] up late game. Nattorei blocks it early game.

 

Starmie is an overall Counter

 

Machamp is as good as always

 

Shandeera is a good Trapper and thats it. If the other team still has a pursuit user, you're doomed.

 

 

 

Any suggestions on improving?

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