"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[obfuscator]

I think tinder is a lot different from normal "text game" or what have you because there's already a strong undercurrent of sexual expectation. No experience with it personally, but I suspect Muggi will have some useful advice.

 

At any rate, glad to see you're still putting yourself out there are not being afraid to try stuff. The more you do it, the easier it gets...and as you said you even might start to enjoy it :P

[RpgGamer]

The thing about tinder is, it's built up to be the straight person's grindr - and it's not. Many people just use it briefly to check things out, have a quick chat and never sign on again. Some treat it like a joke (I had a Mao Zedong tinder for a while, and it was hilarious). To treat tinder so seriously is putting yourself in a position where you will experience interactions that are not ideal to you. You don't want to waste your time talking to matches that have no intention of meeting people they met on tinder, but unfortunately the overall idea is still to gather the largest pool of matches you possibly can. Trust me, in my hundreds of matches in my ungodly amount of time I sank into tinder; very little ever became of it. Was it my fault? Absolutely not in most cases. You have literally NO control over other people and what they're doing or feeling at any given moment. There's really only two end games to tinder: Long game and Short game. Long is when you talk extensively and move to texting, calling and eventually meeting. Short is shooting a message or two and meeting up either that night or that weekend. You can try to crunch the data like Muggiw did for plentyoffish/okcupid but with tinder, the instant messaging requirement puts a lot more stress on timing. And timing when you have such little grasp on the other person's social structure is virtually pure luck. 

 

But now I'm also rambling

 

Reading between the lines is difficult when you have no frame of reference and you're only given so much info. If you play long game - ask for details about how to better understand them, thus making it easier to read between their lines. If they resist - they either aren't interested in long game, or just generally disinterested in meeting people from tinder. Luck of the draw. Ask questions, share info, gain understanding. Long game. If you wanna toss yourself into a short game scenario where a drunk girl messages you to meet up in 3 hours on a friday night - go for it for the experience if you feel compelled. It's good to gain experience. I think you need to start recognizing your strengths instead of letting your weaknesses hang you up.

 

It's nice to see you posting again Horatio

[Gang Sabre]

The lady lets me play videogames all I want, so Im happy with her.

 

:)

[muggiwhplar]

So anyway, I decided to come here for advice when I thought my third "good" conversation ended (~20 minutes ago), but now I think it is on an indefinite hiatus. I'm not really looking for tinder advice specifically, but more the ability to "read between the lines".

 

What I've been doing is trying to make a joke/pun about the girl's profile (2 of which I thought were actually really good, but one was a bot and the other wasn't understood by the girl) followed by "banter" (Which is still ungodly difficult for me to do in real time, but I think I'm getting better at that too) for 3 or 4 exchanges, eventually leading me to me asking her what her schedule looks like this week. Of the 3 "good" conversations I had, 2 ended the same way. The third one probably should have as well, but the girl tried to salvage it. This is extremely confusing and frustrating to me not because the conversations are ending, but because I don't understand why.

 

After I ask what their week looks like, they all say "busy" (In subtle variations consisting of a few more words). The conversation with the first one (whose number I got) ended there. The second one ended with that, followed by another message a couple seconds later saying "Unfortunately". The third one said it, and then like 5 minutes later asked me what my schedule looked like.

 

I thought that by asking what their schedule looked like, I was conveying the message that I wanted to know when they had free time (I read this online at some point, but I don't remember where. It's the only follow up to "banter" that I have) and that by them not mentioning any free time, they were looking to end the conversation. When I thought the third conversation had ended this way, I actually laughed a little bit not because I thought it was funny, but because it seemed so ridiculous that I thought I must be missing something. The (albeit brief) conversations up to that point were all going well (I thought), then they just abruptly ended it. After this third conversation, I'm starting to consider considering that maybe my lack of ability to form relationships with humans isn't because of physical defects, but because I'm actually completely socially retarded.

 

I don't know if what I'm asking is clear at all. I want to know how to pick up on the unwritten communication that is apparently being presented to me. Other than the obvious answers of "Practice", "make platonic friends", or "Read How to win friends and influence people", what do I do? I'm actually starting to kind of enjoy tinder, but I don't understand it and it's kind of frustrating.

 

This post was probably unnecessarily long and drawn out, but it's 2:30 AM and I need to be up at 6 and I've gotten roughly 2 hours of sleep, coupled with lots of studying, last minute assignments, and exams, so sorry if anything didn't make sense. I might come back in the morning to clean this post up, but probably not.

Reading between the lines is just an intuitive skill that you'll develop over time. Though, if you have any specific conversations that you're confused about, then post them here and we can try to interpret them for you. But a lot of it relies on reading body language and other subtle cues-- cues which are off limits when it comes to online dating and texting. That's why I follow a system which makes such cues sorta irrelevant. If you're genuinely enjoying having personalized, individual 1-on-1 conversations, that's good. But keep in mind that it's not very "efficient" in terms of developing your dating and social skills. After all, your #1 objective while you're on Tinder (or any dating site) is to get the girl to meet you in person. That's your absolute #1 priority-- higher than getting a girl to talk to you or give you her phone number or have a friendly conversation with you for a while. After all, what's the point of investing your time on a girl if she has no interest in meeting up with you?

 

At the risk of complicating things, I'll try to explain this via a sales analogy. In the sales world, when we're looking for potential clients, we classify each client as either a "yes," a "no," or a "maybe." Others may call them "greens," yellows," and "reds." At my first sales job, I had to approach about 100-150 strangers a day and pitch my product to them. Since I only had a limited amount of time before the day was up, I quickly learned to minimize my time spent with people who were a "no"-- that is, people who weren't interested from the beginning, and had no use for my product. If a client seemed uncomfortable around me or they seemed like they wished I'd leave them alone, I'd bail ASAP and look for a client who was receptive to me. If I were to spend 20 minutes on a "no" instead of 2 minutes, that's 20 minutes that could've been spent looking for "yeses."

 

Now, when it comes to online dating, the same principle applies. There's a ton of women online who:

- have no interest in meeting anyone but just want free attention to feel better about themselves

- are bored and are just seeing what's out there

- just wanna mess with guys because they're rude and immature

- have boyfriends but they're currently angry at them

etc

 

The bottom line is, no matter how charming or attractive you are, some women will never want to meet up with you... but they'll still act as if they're interested in meeting up with you because they want the attention.

 

So this is why I follow a system which minimizes time wasted on uninterested girls. I made a flowchart of how most of my Tinder conversations go:

 

 

Following this, I never really have to get stressed out over wasting time with girls who were never interested to begin with. If a girl wants to meet up with you, she'll agree to meet up with you and she won't make it difficult.

 

However, for this system to work, you need to be putting in a lot of numbers. I've never really kept track of my Tinder stats since it's too difficult, but I'd say I go on a date with maybe 1 in 10 matches? Give or take a few. So that means I'm getting rejected 9 out of 10 times :P That's part of the reason why I said you should try to become comfortable with rejection and not expect success with every girl.

 

Also note that online dating's very seasonal. October and April are the best months. November and December are some of the worst months since girls have already found their temporary boyfriends to bring home to their families for the holidays... and logistics are a pain to deal with due to the holidays. Things slowly start picking up again after New Years.

 

Anyways, keep up the good work. Let us know if you have any more questions.

[obfuscator]

did you make that flowchart in paint?

 

We should start a funding campaign to buy you visio.

[muggiwhplar]

Naw I used gliffy https://www.gliffy.com/

[RpgGamer]

Prezio 4 lyf

[Horatio]

I'll try that flowchart. The only problem is that after saying she looks like trouble, if she asks you a question, you're supposed to answer it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the most likely (and only reasonable one I can think of off the top of my head) question be "Why?". How are you supposed to respond to that? "Some guy on the internet told me to say that"

 

Other than that, assuming the girl says yes, should I pay for her stuff and should I plan to arrive early/late?

[muggiwhplar]

I'll try that flowchart. The only problem is that after saying she looks like trouble, if she asks you a question, you're supposed to answer it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the most likely (and only reasonable one I can think of off the top of my head) question be "Why?". How are you supposed to respond to that? "Some guy on the internet told me to say that"

 

Other than that, assuming the girl says yes, should I pay for her stuff and should I plan to arrive early/late?

 

Yep that's usually what they ask. I usually just skim through their profile and respond with something generic and stupid about something that stands out about them. "Girls who like [something from her profile] are always trouble. :)" or "Red heads are always trouble. :)" or "[her occupations]s are always trouble. :)"

 

Arrive 5 minutes late and pay for everything unless she adamantly insists that she pays. The nice thing about arriving late is many of your dates will be free because she'll have already ordered something by the time you arrive :)

 

I usually arrive near the bar/coffee shop on time or 5 minutes earlier but I just wait in my car or go for a walk until I get a text from her saying "I'm here." If I don't hear from her I just go in after 5 minutes anyway.

 

 

Also regarding bots... clues that the profile is fake:

- she has a weird/foreign name, or even a man's name

- she doesn't list her school or occupation on her profile below her name

- she only has ~3 pictures

- she has an empty profile or a very vague, non-descriptive profile

- she has her phone number on her profile

 

Clues that her profile is real:

- you see pics of her wearing clothes related to your city or local school

- her instagram account is connected to her profile

- she has her occupation and/or school below her name on her profile

- you have mutual interests from FB

[Horatio]

Okay cool, I'll give that a try.

 

Of my matches, 2 of them have been 170+ miles away (One said she hasn't been in the area for a few months and the other didn't respond) and I've been getting a lot of suggestions outside the age range I specified in my preferences. I guess this is kind of a more technical question, but do any of you know how to fix this?

[muggiwhplar]

I have no filter on my age range-- it's 18-55+ for me lol. That said, all the girls I've dated and match with are around age 20-28. I set the maximum distance to 35 miles because I don't want to drive any further than about 30 minutes to meet someone. If you match with a girl that's super far away, they might've swiped right on you while they were in town or something. Or maybe they're paying to use Tinder and they set their location as your city... but I think it tells you when they're doing that.

 

If you match with a girl and she's far away just ask her about it. She might just be out of town for the weekend.

[Horatio]

I made it to the end of the flow chart and she agreed to coffee and I gave her my number and we're supposed to meet in 22 hours. I guess I just wait now and post about it here after the fact because I'll probably be really flustered either way

[RpgGamer]

I prefer being early, because that helps my anxiety BUT I could totally understand not wanting to sit by yourself at a place for X time waiting on someone so if showing up a little late is more your thing, go with that. No one is going to make you buy things for a girl, but it's a nice gesture. It's best to joke/discuss about it before the bill comes in. Buying a 20 year old a $3 coffee for the hopes of an hour or so of good conversation is absolutely worth the investment. Just be careful at a bar. Those $9 margaritas add up fast.

[Lower Levelled]

@muggi, this has probably been asked before, but I'm curious, would you consider monogamy at any point?

[muggiwhplar]

@muggi, this has probably been asked before, but I'm curious, would you consider monogamy at any point?

Nope

[muggiwhplar]

I made it to the end of the flow chart and she agreed to coffee and I gave her my number and we're supposed to meet in 22 hours. I guess I just wait now and post about it here after the fact because I'll probably be really flustered either way

Good. Though don't be surprised/disappointed if she flakes or reschedules... About 1 in 3 girls will bail on me :P

[RpgGamer]

Still not sure if trolling

[Lower Levelled]

 

@muggi, this has probably been asked before, but I'm curious, would you consider monogamy at any point?

Nope

Is this 100% related to happiness issues that arise with monogamy for you? Not trying to re-raise old convos, but I'm curious. Is it purely biological? Like in layman's terms, you're not happy nailing one woman?

[muggiwhplar]

 

 

@muggi, this has probably been asked before, but I'm curious, would you consider monogamy at any point?

Nope

Is this 100% related to happiness issues that arise with monogamy for you? Not trying to re-raise old convos, but I'm curious. Is it purely biological? Like in layman's terms, you're not happy nailing one woman?

It's because monogamy is too big of a threat to my long term happiness. The odds of either of us eventually getting bored/resentful of one another and wanting to see other people are too high for me to commit to it. I can't really think of any advantages that monogamy has over polyamory other than the occasional minor jealousy.

[Estonian dude]

I quite like having one person I can rely on and know a bit better.

[RpgGamer]

NEVERMIND

[Horatio]

The girl from tinder didn't show up. There are three reasons I can think of that this happened.

 

1) I tried to improvise

2) I assumed she was coming even though she didn't explicitly say she was

3) It's one of those 1/3 Muggiw mentioned

 

[hide=Conversation][/hide]

 

I left at 9:20

[muggiwhplar]

It's a mixture of #2 and #3

 

Did she text you or message you at all after you gave her your number? If they go silent after that, it's usually a sign they're not gonna show.

 

Yeah go ahead and start texting them 24 hours or a couple of hours prior to the meetup (depending on how far away you schedule the date). I just say "hey just confirming [location] at [time]."

 

Keep it up, what happened to you is completely normal

[Horatio]

Thanks

[Lower Levelled]

Also, if I were you I'd use punctuation every now and then