Meat lovers vs. Vegetarians

[shooterbob7]

abyssalwhip, tell me why i am so stupid?

[xvillexvalox]

Edit, double post please read the one under this.

[xvillexvalox]

NOTE: I am vegetarian (1.5+ years). Please take some time to read this.

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of the things you guys are arguing are just freaking stupid. :roll:

 

Nice argument you have, they do seem to contradict themselves in a way, they wont eat a animal (living thing) yet they'll eat vegetables / fruit / crops (all living things originally).

 

 

 

Plants are rooted to the ground and eat sunlight and nutrients in water and dirt. For the most part they don't have organs. Plants don't think (No, not even Venus fly traps, they're just that, traps). Plants and such are the furthest things from animals that is still included in the category of "living things." Last time I checked I haven't seen plants feed their children, build homes, or show emotion.

 

 

 

I can't believe I even have to retaliate this argument. :wall:

 

 

Call me what you will, it just isn't healthy to stay away from meat completely.

 

Uneducated about this topic.

 

This guy has been vegetarian since 1997 and vegan since 1999, I'd be surprised if he doesn't live until 100.

 

I used to be protein deficient before vegetarianism , but I got my yearly blood test back a few weeks ago and it's gone up into the OK-High level. On average vegetarians and vegans live significantly longer than meat eaters.

 

 

 

UPDATE: Here are my full blood test results after vegetarianism for a year in a nutshell: Every level that was checked was in the "OK" zone (and not borderline) except for 3, TSH, Free T4, and Iron. TSH and Free T4 are thyroid-related because I have thyroid problems inherited from my dad. My Iron has always been low, my mom remembers that when I was a toddler a doctor recommended iron pills for me because he though I was anemic, but I had no symptoms and lived with low iron until now.

 

Even though my low iron is thyroid-related or just my bodily settings, we're trying to get it up anyway and I should take another test in a week to see 1 month progress.

 

 

 

hypocrisy, thy name is vegetarian. a vegetarian cant love the environment, they're eating all the damn plants!

 

Meat is HORRIBLE for the environment. Cows eat around 16 pounds of grain a day, that's a hella lot of grain to grow, just to make 80~ pounds of usable meat for you to eat. Shutting down cow/chicken/pig farming for only year would save more than enough grains and such to seriously affect world hunger.

 

A cow will probably be killed at 3-5 years of growing, meaning 17,088-28,480 pounds of grain consumed, 22,789 pounds being the middle and assuming 100 pounds of meat, that's still 228 pounds of grain for a single pound of meat.

 

All that grain needs space to grow, so they cut down habitats, letting out CO2 by killing trees. (also why I don't support ethanol, but that's a different topic)

 

Yes, sorry that we don't consume that equivalent of an extra 228 pounds of grain per week (assuming you eat 1 pound of meat a week, which is probably a lot less than some of you).

 

That one pound of meat is probably worth at least a month's worth of grain for a block of households.

 

 

 

but humans are omnivores, thus, we need a good combination of meat and vegetables to stay healthy.

 

 

If humans are supposed to eat meat, then we are surely pathetic meat eaters.

 

What real meat-eating animals have to cook their food just so they won't die from it?

 

What natural weapons does a human have to kill animals? You can't even bite through leather. Our "canine" or Incisor teeth are pathetic as well. I have a freaking Maltese and his incisors are longer and sharper than ours.

 

Even horses have these "Canine" teeth = warning-large resolution picture

 

 

 

The reason you might see vegetarians that look ill is because a lot of the time girls just do it because they think they'll lose weight and don't know any thing else vegetarian to eat besides cheerios or something.

[Abyssalwhip]

NOTE: I am vegetarian (1.5+ years).

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of the things you guys are arguing are just freaking stupid. :roll:

 

Nice argument you have, they do seem to contradict themselves in a way, they wont eat a animal (living thing) yet they'll eat vegetables / fruit / crops (all living things originally).

 

 

 

Plants are rooted to the ground and eat sunlight and nutrients in water and dirt. For the most part they don't have organs. Plants don't think (No, not even Venus fly traps, they're just that, traps). Plants and such are the furthest things from animals that is still included in the category of "living things." Last time I checked I haven't seen plants feed their children, build homes, or show emotion.

 

 

 

I can't believe I even have to retaliate this argument. :wall:

 

 

Call me what you will, it just isn't healthy to stay away from meat completely.

 

Uneducated about this topic.

 

This guy has been vegetarian since 1997 and vegan since 1999, I'd be surprised if he doesn't live until 100.

 

I used to be protein deficient before vegetarianism , but I got my year blood test back a few weeks ago and it's gone up into the OK-High level. On average vegetarians and vegans live significantly longer than meat eaters.

 

 

 

hypocrisy, thy name is vegetarian. a vegetarian cant love the environment, they're eating all the damn plants!

 

Meat is HORRIBLE for the environment. Cows eat around 16 pounds of grain a day, that's a hella lot of grain to grow, just to make 80~ pounds of usable meat for you to eat. Shutting down cow/chicken/pig farming for only year would save more than enough grains and such to seriously affect world hunger.

 

A cow will probably be killed at 3-5 years of growing, meaning 17,088-28,480 pounds of grain consumed, 22,789 pounds being the middle and assuming 100 pounds of meat, that's still 228 pounds of grain for a single pound of meat.

 

All that grain needs space to grow, so they cut down habitats, letting out CO2 by killing trees. (also why I don't support ethanol, but that's a different topic)

 

Yes, sorry that we don't consume that equivalent of an extra 228 pounds of grain per week (assuming you eat 1 pound of meat a week, which is probably a lot less than some of you).

 

That one pound of meat is probably worth at least a month's worth of grain for a block of households.

 

 

 

but humans are omnivores, thus, we need a good combination of meat and vegetables to stay healthy.

 

 

If humans are supposed to eat meat, then we are surely pathetic meat eaters.

 

What real meat-eating animals have to cook their food just so they won't die from it?

 

What natural weapons does a human have to kill animals? You can't even bite through leather. Our "canine" or Incisor teeth are pathetic as well. I have a freaking Maltese and his incisors are longer and sharper than ours.

 

Even horses have these "Canine" teeth = warning-large resolution picture

 

 

 

The reason you might see vegetarians that look ill is because a lot of the time girls just do it because they think they'll lose weight and don't know any thing else vegetarian to eat besides cheerios or something.

 

Not vegetarian but not a huge meat eater either, anyway this is so true.

[Stephen9o3]

Thank you xvillexvalox. Reading the invalid arguments from the previous posters was becoming quite painful, needed something to turn the thread around.

[The_Who]

Meat is delicious.

 

 

 

Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying and should be beaten.

 

Someone give this man a medal. I can't imagine not eating meat, but I guess it's where you come from and your convictions on the subject...

[dragoonson]

I am unable to consume vegetables...Gag reflex >.<

 

 

 

I can eat grain though,Chinese rice!

 

 

 

So yes,I only eat meat...And other stuff,just not veggies and most fruits

[AdioLovesSquall]

But they thought of all life as equal and everything deserves to live.

 

 

 

Here's something for christians:

 

God says respect all of his life because he created it in his image

 

God put animals on earth to be hunted and eaten.

 

 

 

 

God created MAN in his own image. Not life.

 

 

 

"Man was created in God's image and woman was created in the image of man"

[Lenticular_J]

Ville, you considered those arguments? Because that's just silly. We're just having fun. I'd "retaliate", but I'm really tired, and wouldn't be able to find any sources in my tiredness. Even though you didn't post any sources apart from the website about the guy, a good bit of it is obvious. But just to let you know, if every person on Earth became a vegetarian, the amount of land needed to grow all that food would soar. I can't find where I read that, it might not have even been here on the internets.

 

 

 

I can reply to the pathetic meat eater thing. We're better than animals. We use tools. I'm sure you've noticed otters don't have any particularly good hunting features (apart from swimming ability, which still wouldn't help tons), but they can use tools. Our mind is our natural weapon.

 

 

 

People don't even need to cook food. We'd still live to lifespans of around 30-40 years old on average if we ate raw meat (I believe), but that isn't good enough. Can't find a source for that either, I'm afraid.

 

 

 

And as to Adio and Agunimon, yes, Adio's right. If you try to debate from that viewpoint, the least you could do is actually read the New Testament, Agunimon. Even the Old Testament would be acceptable - hell, a few quotes from the Koran could do some good.

[Ledusskapis]

I love meat, and i think i could never become a vegetarian. Besides i bet a lot of people would try to make me eat meat. I did it when my father used to be a vegetarian. Then he somehow forgot about it (sucsess!).

 

 

 

Anyways,i got one question. I heard it somewhere, and well...

 

Imagine youre vegetarian/vegan and some peoploe tell to you "eat this chicken or we will kill another chicken"

 

So what would you do?

[warri0r45]

I'm a meat eater and I think vegetarians can live just fine if they plan their diets well. It might be a bit of a challenge to get some vitamins like B12 and minerals like iron and calcium, but it is possible. The upsides of vegetarianism can be reduced risk of heart diseases associated with intake of excessive saturated fats and cholesterol (both of which contribute to the formation of plaques on arterial walls). Fibre is well and truly a plus for the vegetarians as well. Many cancers have a similar rate of incidence in vegetarians and meat eaters. As for protein, vegetarians can eat legumes.

 

 

 

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/di ... aid=814540

 

 

 

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/3/516S

[doomy]

Eating meat is good...Why not unless you don't like the taste?

 

Oh no animals are killed, ahhh its only been done for like ever.

 

 

 

I mean, a hungry predator in the wild wouldn't think twcie about chasing you and eating you, even if you were a vegatarian....

[Lenticular_J]

I'm a meat eater and I think vegetarians can live just fine if they plan their diets well. It might be a bit of a challenge to get some vitamins like B12 and minerals like iron and calcium, but it is possible. The upsides of vegetarianism can be reduced risk of heart diseases associated with intake of excessive saturated fats and cholesterol (both of which contribute to the formation of plaques on arterial walls). Fibre is well and truly a plus for the vegetarians as well. Many cancers have a similar rate of incidence in vegetarians and meat eaters. As for protein, vegetarians can eat legumes.

 

Quite good points. I just find it disgusting when they don't plan their diets well - and many don't, hence the common mental image of vegetarians looking sickly and just unhealthy.

[xvillexvalox]

. But just to let you know, if every person on Earth became a vegetarian, the amount of land needed to grow all that food would soar. I can't find where I read that, it might not have even been here on the internets.

 

 

 

 

Obviously where ever you read that lied, humans can only eat about 1500 pounds of food a year [book], just by having to feed 1 cow for a year, you're using up enough food and space to feed 4 people for that year.

 

 

 

I can't see how that would work seeing as how much less food would be needed to feed livestock.

 

America has 300million people, but 98million cows (according to http://www.cattlenetwork.com/Content.as ... tid=226025). If cows eat 16 pounds per day, then every cow eats about 4 times more food than a human in a year.

 

India has the most cows, 281.7 million, eating enough food for over 1 billion people.

 

 

 

Sorry for not citing sources in my original post, but nothing that I posted was to hard to believe either, I google searched some statistics that I needed on the spot, if you wanted to you could do the same and find them.

[ThurinEthir]

Meat is delicious.

 

 

 

Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying and should be beaten.

 

 

 

The truth has been spoken.

 

And since cake is not meat, the cake is a lie!?

 

 

 

I suppose I kind of like meat. Cold cut. Steak. =P~ But I don't really love it. And I'm definitely not a vegetarian.

 

As for the whole "being a vegetarian makes you unhealthy" thing, my piano teacher is a vegetarian. She turned 70 not too long ago. Doesn't sound too unhealthy to me...For the record, I think she uses soy as a replacement.

 

And for the "plants are equal to animals", do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? You might as well say bacteria are equal to animals too, since they're alive as well. So the fact that vegetarians use soap makes them hypocrites too, eh?

[warri0r45]

I'm a meat eater and I think vegetarians can live just fine if they plan their diets well. It might be a bit of a challenge to get some vitamins like B12 and minerals like iron and calcium, but it is possible. The upsides of vegetarianism can be reduced risk of heart diseases associated with intake of excessive saturated fats and cholesterol (both of which contribute to the formation of plaques on arterial walls). Fibre is well and truly a plus for the vegetarians as well. Many cancers have a similar rate of incidence in vegetarians and meat eaters. As for protein, vegetarians can eat legumes.

 

Quite good points. I just find it disgusting when they don't plan their diets well - and many don't, hence the common mental image of vegetarians looking sickly and just unhealthy.

 

 

 

Indeed. People are silly if they think they can just cut meat out of a non-vegetarian diet and be healthy. Up the legume intake, up the leafy greens such as spinach and other veggies and they'll have a better chance of being healthy.

[xvillexvalox]

 

Oh no animals are killed, ahhh its only been done for like ever.

 

 

 

I mean, a hungry predator in the wild wouldn't think twcie about chasing you and eating you, even if you were a vegatarian....

 

Ya know, slavery has existed since the Egyptians, so it's been around for about 2000 years, but it doesn't make it right.

 

 

 

And the second point, that's just it, we're not natural predators, if a deer walked in front of your house you wouldn't go bite it at the neck.

 

A lot of the meat eating attitudes are because of some kind of inferiority complex that people have about not being predators, people seem to think eating meat makes you better than animals, it really doesn't matter.

 

 

 

 

 

About getting nutrients and minerals as a vegetarian, it's not as hard as everyone is thinking it to be, I don't pick out foods based on how much of this and that I need, I just eat with variety (lots of ingredients in food, not the same thing every other night).

 

 

 

In fact many of you that are posting this probably have vitamin deficiencies yourself, when you replace calories from meats with calories from non-meats, you're getting allot more vitamins and minerals than you would be getting from the same amount of energy from meat.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Take a look at this:

 

http://www.everybodygoto.com/2007/10/12 ... the-world/

 

American's obviously can't just cut out meat and be healthy (unless you have a good diet already like I had before cutting out my meat), but many other people can, look at the variety of foods other countries eat compared to the processed junk of us.

 

 

 

There are two pictures from the US there, you actually need to scan the picture to find the vegetables in those pictures, look at the rest of the world, the greens, grains, and fruits are easily apparant.

[tripsis]

Ok, i love animals, but i do do eat meat. What i don't get is why do people not eat meat? First of

 

all, you may not like meat because of the way they kill them or that they should be free, but if you think about it, vegetables are living creatures too.They are made of cells and grow. So why eat a living vegetable but not a piece of juicy steak? :mrgreen: Also, if you are vegetarian, why do you eat foods in the shape of meat like veggie burgers and veggie dogs.Your trying to back away from meat, not be hippocritical. the irony!

 

1. A lot of the people I know do not eat meat because of the way it is produced. Animals in farm factories receive terrible treatment and even abuse. Most of the times they are killed in non-humane ways (tie a cow up to the ceiling by its feet, slit its throat and let it bleed to death).

 

 

 

2. How is it hypocritical to eat vegetarian food that is in the shape of another food that contains meat?

 

 

 

Personally, I would love to be a vegetarian. I already eat very few meats simply because I've never really liked it. My diet is mostly restricted to poultry out of pure preference. But I already have a terrible diet and know that I would be worse off if I stopped eating meat all together. I don't eat many other foods that are high in protein. However, I do make a point to buy free range meat, which makes me feel a little better about it.

[xvillexvalox]

Ville, you considered those arguments? Because that's just silly. We're just having fun. I'd "retaliate", but I'm really tired, and wouldn't be able to find any sources in my tiredness. Even though you didn't post any sources apart from the website about the guy, a good bit of it is obvious.

 

 

 

I can reply to the pathetic meat eater thing. We're better than animals. We use tools. I'm sure you've noticed otters don't have any particularly good hunting features (apart from swimming ability, which still wouldn't help tons), but they can use tools. Our mind is our natural weapon.

 

 

 

People don't even need to cook food. We'd still live to lifespans of around 30-40 years old on average if we ate raw meat (I believe), but that isn't good enough. Can't find a source for that either, I'm afraid.

 

 

 

 

The only real joke argument I responded to was the living thing one, the rest that I did were common misconceptions on the subject.

 

 

 

By the way, otters eat fish, swimming ability does help, tons.

 

Here's an otter's teeth.

 

 

 

If you eat raw meat have fun getting:

 

Bacterial Gastroenteritis (food poisoning)

 

Bird Flu

 

Camphylobacter

 

E-coli

 

Listeriosis

 

Mad Cow Disease

 

Salmonella

 

Trichinosis

 

Trichinellosis

 

Toxoplasmosis

 

plus various "worms" and other bacteria and diseases.

 

 

 

My thoughts on the raw meat subject is that we aren't meant to eat it, it's just that humans evolved to be able to eat meat raw and get nourishment from it in case food was scarce and some predator left scrap meat out.

 

Humans are scavengers and prey.

[Zierro]

And the second point, that's just it, we're not natural predators, if a deer walked in front of your house you wouldn't go bite it at the neck.

 

A lot of the meat eating attitudes are because of some kind of inferiority complex that people have about not being predators, people seem to think eating meat makes you better than animals, it really doesn't matter.

 

 

 

You do know we've been hunting mammoths since Fred Flintstone was around right? And I doubt inferiority was on their mind at the time - I'm pretty sure their main concern was getting food.

 

 

 

And you said preparation of food means you shouldn't eat it... Then I'd like to see you pick a potato out of the ground and eating it. No washing it either.

[xvillexvalox]

And the second point, that's just it, we're not natural predators, if a deer walked in front of your house you wouldn't go bite it at the neck.

 

A lot of the meat eating attitudes are because of some kind of inferiority complex that people have about not being predators, people seem to think eating meat makes you better than animals, it really doesn't matter.

 

 

 

You do know we've been hunting mammoths since Fred Flintstone was around right? And I doubt inferiority was on their mind at the time - I'm pretty sure their main concern was getting food.

 

 

 

And you said preparation of food means you shouldn't eat it... Then I'd like to see you pick a potato out of the ground and eating it. No washing it either.

 

 

 

Dirt on a potato won't kill you, and is easy to clean, how would have the original humans wash a piece of meat, cut it off part the body and wash it in a river?

 

 

 

Also I didn't say it means you shouldn't eat it, but that it means that because we have to do it we're not naturally predators.

 

 

 

About hunting mammoths... it's widely know that the human race originated in the middle east, some move south to Africa, others went to Europe.

 

What were the conditions like when mammoth were around? Icey. Cold. Small amounts of plant life, it was survival instict that made them hunt, if fruits and plants were widely available as were to those living in Africa, hunting wouldn't have been a necessity.

 

 

 

Meat was a last resort, and not a good source of nourishment.

 

 

 

 

 

Added fact about lacking protein: Elephants and certain types of gorillas are the largest animals on earth, and are completely herbivores, meaning all of their muscle and fat was built by using plant protiens.

[Zierro]

So if you have to apply logic to prepare your food then you weren't meant to eat it? That would mean we weren't meant to farm, clean our food, or crack nuts open. It means we were meant to walk into the woods pick a piece of food out of the ground and then eat it. That's not the case. Humans have logic - why shouldn't we use it?

[xvillexvalox]

So if you have to apply logic to prepare your food then you weren't meant to eat it? That would mean we weren't meant to farm, clean our food, or crack nuts open. It means we were meant to walk into the woods pick a piece of food out of the ground and then eat it. That's not the case. Humans have logic - why shouldn't we use it?

 

 

 

What real meat eater has to cook their meat? We weren't meant to be meat-eaters.

 

Our body does not need meat, it can digest it, but it does not need it. Just because you can doesn't mean it's natural.

 

 

 

Cleaning food, farming, and cracking nuts open are vastly different from "Cook it or die."

 

Logic doesn't say that "Raw meat makes you sick" it's experience and experiment that does that.

 

Picking up an apple off the ground and brushing off the dirt is logic, "dirt. do not want."

 

Cracking a nut is logic, "Hey, food in there, I should get it."

[doomy]

Everytime we walk in front of a plant, do we thing we have to eat it?

 

No, so according to that we're not natural vegaterians.

 

 

 

Humans are natuarally eaters of both meat and plants, tbh.

 

 

 

And if you don't eat meat because its from a dead animal, get over it, the animals frigging deal already!

 

 

 

In the end though, it really doesn't matter if a person eats meat or not.

[Zierro]

What real meat eater has to cook their meat? We weren't meant to be meat-eaters.

 

Our body does not need meat, it can digest it, but it does not need it. Just because you can doesn't mean it's natural.

 

 

 

Why because you, as a vegetarian, say so? Sorry. Not buying it. If we weren't meant to eat meat, then why doesn't it kill us? You as a vegetarian can dictate that it's unnatural just as I as an omnivore can dictate that it is natural. If it wasn't, why were we given the logic to do so?

 

 

 

Cleaning food, farming, and cracking nuts open are vastly different from "Cook it or die."

 

Logic doesn't say that "Raw meat makes you sick" it's experience and experiment that does that.

 

Picking up an apple off the ground and brushing off the dirt is logic, "dirt. do not want."

 

Cracking a nut is logic, "Hey, food in there, I should get it."

 

 

 

How do you know you don't want dirt? You eat it and dislike it. Experience.

 

 

 

How do you know you don't eat the entire nut? I bite into it and see that it is too hard. Experience.