Meat lovers vs. Vegetarians

[xvillexvalox]

I'm going to sleep, while I'm away look at this: http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

 

 

 

It's all you'll need to answer your arguments.

 

Read everything there and you'll understand that you're the one lacking evidence, you're making an exception for humans by classifying them as meat eaters for 2 reasons:

 

1. because we can

 

2. because we have

 

 

 

I've been saying we aren't because:

 

1. Our body isn't built for it

 

2. Our bodies are healthier without it

 

3. We don't share characteristics with meat-eaters at all

 

-There's more at the link I provided, it cites all of it's sources, check them before criticizing it if you don't believe it or think its flawed.

[Sumpta]

I was always taught that humans, like pigs, are omnivores... Not only do we digest food, we are able to extract the 'stuff' we need from it (sorry, not in the mood to look up the English vitamin and food-related vocabulary). But I'm not an expert, so I'll just speak from my own experience.

 

 

 

I simply need meat. I don't eat it every day though, sometimes I even go a week without it. But I do need it. A few weeks ago, I neglected to eat meat during my menstruation. Not very wise, the result being low blood pressure, dizzyness, headaches, fainting spells, see-through paleness, fatigue... due to anaemia. I admit it was careless of me, but nevertheless, I did eat other foods that contain iron and the necessary vitamin C to absorb the iron, such as tomatoes, cherries, carrots, bread, dark chocolate etc. It simply wasn't enough. I needed a few steaks to get me up and running again.

 

 

 

However, I do abhor animal cruelty. So instead of becoming a vegetarian, I have decided to put some effort into screening the meat I eat. These days it's not that hard to buy "fair" meat, just as you can buy eggs from chickens that weren't locked up in dreadful circumstances. Some of those labels are very tightly screened.

[thrash-boy]

meat ftw

 

 

1. Our body isn't built for it

 

2. Our bodies are healthier without it

 

3. We don't share characteristics with meat-eaters at all

 

 

 

1. what an absolute load of [cabbage]. what the [bleep] are you smoking?

 

of course of bodies are built for it. meats (especially red) high protein levels were one of them main factors that caused our brains to develop and us to swing out of trees.

 

 

 

2. ill correct you: our body's are not as healthy without it. i don't know where you got that idea. maybe for some lazy office [bleep]er who sits on his [wagon] pushing paper all day, then he might not need any. there are so many beneficial things in meat.

 

i have a real life example: the stupid hippy across the road from me doesn't eat meat. she's a true vegetarian, i think even a vegan. shes the type that when you go to a neighborhood bbq and everyone is cooking there snags and beef burgers she has to wait untill no one else is cooking, and put [bleep]ing tin foil down before she cooks her stupid vegy sausages on it.

 

i feel so sorry for her young kids, growing up with a stupid [puncture] like that. not to mention how she will never let them do anything remotely fun when there older. you should see the way she comes out yelling and cursing when i ride me moty over the road next to her house in the paddock, claiming how shes been in some enviro trust for so many years and how im "hurting the creek". anyway back on topic.

 

 

 

3. of course we [bleep]ing do. we are meat eating animals. we have ate meat for as long as we have been our own race, not monkeys. we hunted and possibly sent to extinction bloody mammoths for god sake.

 

just because we dont run around killing them like tigers and lions anymore doesn't mean where not meat eaters. we ahve evolved enough to kill them better and more cleaner and store them.

 

 

 

no offense, but people like you who claim how bad eating meat is really piss me off. i just cant stand it. what has happened, has the whole world turned into a race of [bleep]ing pansy's?

 

its not like we put the animals through massive pain when we farm them. they live happy lives eating grass and walking around in each others [cabbage] right upto the moment there killed, which in most cases in done in the best way it can, causing minimal pain to the animal and finishing it off as quick as possible.

 

idiotic vegies like you need to get stranded on a desert island for a year where you have to kill and eat meat. you will worship the [cabbage] for saving your life then. now i am really pissed off :wall:

[Kiriyama]

I've been saying we aren't because:

 

1. Our body isn't built for it

 

2. Our bodies are healthier without it

 

3. We don't share characteristics with meat-eaters at all

 

 

 

1. We have canine teeth. Therefore, I think we are designed to eat meant. Sure ours might not be as strong, however, we can still bite and eat raw meat if we wanted to. We just prefer it cooked, so it is softer, and safer to eat.

 

 

 

2. Thats a load of crap. Vegetarians and Vegans often lack some vitamins and minerals which are more commonly found in meants.

 

 

 

3. I think we are meat eaters, and natural hunters. Humans were given a brain, we are among the smartest creatures on the planet. Sure we might not chase our prey down, kill it down with our bare hands/ teeth and eat it on the spot without preparing it. We use our brains to fashion weapons and traps with which to hunt.

 

 

 

I've never heard about a Lion making a spear with which to hunt. A human would, simply because we lack true natural weapons, but are smarter and have the knowledge to make weapons to aid us.

[Furah]

Meat is delicious.

 

 

 

Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying and should be beaten.

 

 

 

 

 

Meat is delicious.

 

 

 

Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying and should be eaten.

 

 

 

fixed ;)

[Kenshinjapan]

But they thought of all life as equal and everything deserves to live.

 

 

 

Here's something for christians:

 

God says respect all of his life because he created it in his image

 

God put animals on earth to be hunted and eaten.

 

 

 

Also fruit and vegetables is much more healthy. Meat has a high fat content and it is easily tainted.

 

 

 

You misinterpreted that statement. It's saying that meat is good to eat, but just don't go out killing animals for no reason.

 

 

 

Anyways, I believe in eating meat but I can see how some people are vegetarians. My friend is Hindu and does not eat meat because a person's soul can come back in an animal, fair enough. But vegetarians that do it just because of how they kill the animal confuse me. Sure you can see the sadness in an animals' eyes, but isn't a vegetable the exact same?

[shooterbob7]

 

2. How is it hypocritical to eat vegetarian food that is in the shape of another food that contains meat?

 

 

 

Because, if you are trying to back away from meat, why would you eat something in a shape of meat?

[9Fade1]

I eat meat and that's my choice, if people don't i respect their decision, just don't criticise me for eating meat that's my choice

 

 

 

(but I will only eat it if the creature has been humanely killed, Stunned, before it's bled, which was shown on the British TV show , Kill it, Cook it, Eat it)

[Powman3]

Uh. Sorry all you vegetarians here, but as long as my step-dad is still making delicious steaks (or as long as people keep making delicious meat products that aren't filled hormones and crap) , I'm eating meat.

 

 

 

All though this one website changed my view on meat. Forever.

 

 

 

I recommend that you don't watch this if you get sick easily. Seriously.

[mrpez]

i dont mind vegetarians at all. i just dont like the ones that marry animals and protest people that like to eat meat. get a job hippie.

[Zierro]

3. I think we are meat eaters, and natural hunters. Humans were given a brain, we are among the smartest creatures on the planet. Sure we might not chase our prey down, kill it down with our bare hands/ teeth and eat it on the spot without preparing it. We use our brains to fashion weapons and traps with which to hunt.

 

 

 

I've never heard about a Lion making a spear with which to hunt. A human would, simply because we lack true natural weapons, but are smarter and have the knowledge to make weapons to aid us.

 

 

 

Absolutely my point. No, we don't have claws or fangs but we do have the ability to use tools in order to help us eat the meat, just like monkeys use sticks to poke bugs and eat them.

[mrpez]

please, stop the debating on whether or not it is hypocritical for a vegetarian to eat meat-shaped food. its not.

 

 

 

accusing someone of that would be similar to slapping the label 'homosexual' on any person that eats a vegetable over 6 inches long.

[Lateralus]

It's not like meat comes in burger or hot dog form naturally anyway, it's just a delivery system we've invented.

[Abyssalwhip]

And the second point, that's just it, we're not natural predators, if a deer walked in front of your house you wouldn't go bite it at the neck.

 

A lot of the meat eating attitudes are because of some kind of inferiority complex that people have about not being predators, people seem to think eating meat makes you better than animals, it really doesn't matter.

 

 

 

You do know we've been hunting mammoths since Fred Flintstone was around right? And I doubt inferiority was on their mind at the time - I'm pretty sure their main concern was getting food.

 

 

 

And you said preparation of food means you shouldn't eat it... Then I'd like to see you pick a potato out of the ground and eating it. No washing it either.

 

Seeing I wouldn't eat the skin (dirty part) sure.

[mrpez]

humans arent natural predators? what? humans are at the top of the food chain. just because we use traps and guns to kill our food instead of "biting it in the neck" doesnt mean we arent predators.

 

 

 

plus, abbysalwhip, i think you missed his point.

[xvillexvalox]

humans arent natural predators? what? humans are at the top of the food chain. just because we use traps and guns to kill our food instead of "biting it in the neck" doesnt mean we arent predators.

 

 

 

When you get hungry you don't think about killing a cow and eating it. You think about that steak that was butchered, cut, and wrapped before you even saw it, being able to digest meat doesn't mean you have instinct to kill for it. Otherwise a rabbit wouldn't be able to go on your front lawn while you're hungry, you'd have an urge to eat it.

 

 

 

 

 

@ SwordDude188, Zierro, and Trash_Boy

 

Please don't bring up the EXACT SAME ARGUMENTS that are proven wrong in the link that I provided in the post that you responded to, that page is well researched and provides responses better than I could.

 

 

 

About the "we have canine teeth", that is a gross injustice, you point out one thing that's similar to carnivores and think it completely overrides the rest of the evidence. Plus I already covered than in the 2nd page, surely you should read what I've already said before arguing. HORSES have "canine" teeth, I guess it's out to eat me. :wall:

 

 

 

@Trash-Boy specifically

 

What you wrote is a petty argument, usually when you see censored words in every paragraph that's the case. You make incredible assumptions that you've probably never bothered to look up. Hunting =/= evolution. Hunting is not instinct, neither is killing for food in general, it's the last result of early man.

 

 

 

 

FINALLY TO EVERYONE

 

 

 

Please oh please take half an hour to CALMLY read through this:

 

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

 

I know, sometimes it's hard to read something you don't agree with, but you have to read this if only this if you want to at least make arguments worthy enough to get whole responses to.

 

 

 

[hide=If you're you're to lazy to click that link, here are some common myths you guys are believing debunked, SOURCE]MYTH: "Humans were designed to eat meat."

 

 

 

Fact: Human anatomy suggests otherwise. We're designed to be able to eat meat occasionally, as a survival mechanism, but our digestive systems are similar to those of the other plant-eaters and totally unlike those of carnivores. Also, the less meat someone eats, the less their risk of just about every major disease. Finally, people who don't eat meat have better physical performance, whether they're athletes or not. The argument that humans are carnivores because we possess "canine" teeth ignores the facts that other plant-eaters have these same so-called canine teeth, and that only plant-eaters have molar teeth.

 

More here:http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

 

 

 

MYTH: "Vegetarians get little protein."

 

 

 

Fact: Plant foods offer abundant protein. Vegetables are around 23% protein on average, beans 28%, grains 13%, and even fruit has 5.5%. For comparison, human breast milk is only 5% (designed for the time in our lives when our protein needs are as high as they'll ever be). The US Recommended Daily Allowance is 8%, and the World Health Organization recommends 4.5%. [more on this topic, inc. chart]

 

 

 

MYTH: "Beans are a good source of protein."

 

 

 

Fact: There is no such thing as a special "source of protein" because all foods -- even plants -- have plentiful protein. You might as well say "Food is a good source of protein". In any event, beans (28%) don't average much more protein per calorie than common vegetables (23%).

 

More on this topic, inc. chart: http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/proteinexplain.html

 

 

 

MYTH: "Meat protein is better than plant protein. You have to combine plant foods to make the protein just as good."

 

 

 

Fact: This myth was popularized in the 1971 book Diet for a Small Planet and has no basis in fact. The author of the book admitted nearly twenty years ago that she made a mistake (in the 1982 edition of the same book).

 

more on this topic: http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/proteinexplain.html

 

 

 

 

 

MYTH: "Tofu is a low-fat food."

 

 

 

Fact: Tofu is 54% fat, more than many meats, and way more than the 10-20% of dietary calories from fat that most vegetarian authorities recommend. McDougall again: "[soybeans] contain far too much fat for regular use by most people Tofuis even a little worse Obviously, tofu is a rich, high-fat, low-fiber food that should be used sparingly."

 

 

 

MYTH: "Milk is necessary for strong bones."

 

 

 

Fact: McDougall: "Where does a cow or an elephant get the calcium needed to grow its huge bones? From plants, of course. Only plants. People in Asia and Africa who consume no milk products after they're weaned from their mother's breast grow perfectly healthy skeletons in the normal size for their race. A consistent conclusion published in the scientific literature is clear: Calcium deficiency of dietary origin is unknown in humans. Dairy products contain large amounts of animal proteins. This excess protein removes calcium from the body by way of the kidneys. Knowing the physiological effects on calcium metabolism of eating excess protein explains why societies with the highest intakes of meat and dairy products--the United States, England, Israel, Finland, and Sweden--also show the highest rates of osteoporosis, the disease of bone-thinning."[/hide]

[DerekZoolandah]

 

This guy has been vegetarian since 1997 and vegan since 1999, I'd be surprised if he doesn't live until 100.

 

I used to be protein deficient before vegetarianism , but I got my yearly blood test back a few weeks ago and it's gone up into the OK-High level. On average vegetarians and vegans live significantly longer than meat eaters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

He's freaking excersising a lot, I'm sure a person who ate a regular diet that included meat and vegetables would live the same age as well.

 

 

 

I don't care if people are vegetarians. I'm not. I could be one if I wanted to. I dislike some meats - steak for one. Others I'm not fond of, like .. Ham. Others I like. Turkey, Bacon, Chicken. They're all good. But I mean honestly, you're supposed to eat meat, and again, I'm sure that if you had a proper diet that had meat + veggies, you'd be fine. If you had a life of just veggies and you got the regular nutrients from another source that you'd get from steak, you'd be fine. You'd just be meat-free. That is all.

 

 

 

Another thing I'd like to ask people on this thread since I'm talking about nutrients. Could you sustain yourself on just nutrient pills? Do you really -need- food? Just something I thought about before.

[Echofish]

I don't think I can ever live as a vegetarian. I hate having vegetables :lol:

[doomy]

When you get hungry you don't think about killing a cow and eating it. You think about that steak that was butchered, cut, and wrapped before you even saw it, being able to digest meat doesn't mean you have instinct to kill for it. Otherwise a rabbit wouldn't be able to go on your front lawn while you're hungry, you'd have an urge to eat it.

 

So?

 

If we still think about eating meat, no matter what form, does that make us vegatarians?

 

 

 

Just because we don't think about killing a cow and eating it, doesn't mean we're vegatarians.

 

 

 

Everytime I'm hungry, I don't think about killing a plant and eating it.....No its all processed in some form as well.

 

 

 

When I'm hungry, I eat whatever I feel like it...

 

 

 

And who said we have an instinct to kill for it? No we generally don't.

 

We don't need to, we have better ways of getting our meat anyway, and if we didn't have an instinct, then why did humans oringally hunt mammoths? So we could eat vegtables?

[Zierro]

When you get hungry you don't think about killing a cow and eating it. You think about that steak that was butchered, cut, and wrapped before you even saw it, being able to digest meat doesn't mean you have instinct to kill for it. Otherwise a rabbit wouldn't be able to go on your front lawn while you're hungry, you'd have an urge to eat it.

 

 

 

Do you live in a garden or something? Seriously, I get all of my food at the grocery store - including veggies. I don't naturally get the instinct to dig through the dirt with my bare hands looking for potatoes, do I? Also, the fact that we aren't the stereotypical "predators" you speak of is because we have the technology to do it more effectively. The ends justifies the means.

 

 

 

[hide=]

Please don't bring up the EXACT SAME ARGUMENTS that are proven wrong in the link that I provided in the post that you responded to, that page is well researched and provides responses better than I could.

 

 

 

What do you want, a battle of research? Fine:

 

 

 

We are taught that animals fall into groups based on their diet. We learn that Carnivores eat meat, Herbivores eat plant matter and Omnivores have an equal love and ability to eat both plant matter and meat. I'm not saying this is wrong. What is wrong is when we take this information to be ABSOLUTE. Here is what I mean. We know that a lion is a carnivore and he is because the bulk of his diet is made up of meat. We also know that a lion will often eat grass and leaf material because he needs or wants to. This does not mean he has become a herbivore because he eats plant matter nor does it mean he has become an omnivore because we know he will eat both plant and animal matter. When science puts an animal in one of these groups they do so because they know that the bulk of the animals diet comes from that category classification. Our mistake, and even several scientists make this same mistake, is that we take these animal classifications too literally. I gave you the lion example from the carnivore group. Here is one from the ranks of the herbivores. Camels are called herbivores, yet they will eat dead animals and chew up the bones they often come across in the deserts where they live. Iguanas are classified as herbiverous lizards, yet they will eat birds or small animals given the opportunity. Those are just two of the best known examples. I have come to this conclusion. By nature, all animals are somewhat unpredictable and when we try and say that this animal will only eat this and this animal here would never eat this we are leaving out one word that is so important in the animal kingdom. That word is OPPORTUNITY. In my opinion science should temper the lessons of animal diet classification by saying that to one degree or another, ALL animals are opportunistic feeders even though they properly fall into their specific diet classifications.

[/hide]

 

 

 

Did you see that word? Opportunity? Logic gives man the opportunity to hunt. When a camel gets the opportunity to eat meat - even though all of his traits show he's an "herbivore" - he will eat a carcass if he has to. I suppose you should go tell camels to stop too - and lions for eating grass since "their body shows that it's not meant to".

 

 

 

If we're not meant to, why did we get the hunting idea in the first place?

[xvillexvalox]

If you're out running in a park somewhere and get hungry, you probably wouldn't mind eating an apple or berries from some bushes, but not a deer or a rabbit. Humans don't have instinct, you'd know that would be part of my argument if you actually read that webpage.

 

 

 

[hide=Michaelbluejay.com]There's another important fact never acknowledged by meat proponents: Humans act by idea rather than by instinct. Other animals are programmed to know what food is. We are not. For us, it's learned behavior. Or in some cases, guessed behavior. We can make choices about what we should eat even if that's contrary to good health, as millions prove every day when they eat at McDonald's. If our ancestors ate meat, they were simply being human and making choices rather than acting on instinct. Think about it: Do you really believe that cavemen were true experts about nutrition? If so, what other major decisions about your life would you like to put in the hands of a caveman?[/hide]

 

 

 

Your quote is probably accurate, but implies that those instances happen often and regularly, which is just untrue. Those examples are similar to the situation of Monkeys. They are classified as omnivores, but their diets are 99% plant life and 1% "other", of that 1% most of it is termites, and none of it is actual meat that you would consider, yet they are still classified falsely as omnivores.

 

 

 

And that's why you can't use that same argument for us, we don't eat a 1% meat diet, it's closer to 20-30+%. That is unnatural, just like it would be unnatural for a lion to have 20 to 30% of it's diet be grass and so on.

[DerekZoolandah]

 

 

 

And that's why you can't use that same argument for us, we don't eat a 1% meat diet, it's closer to 20-30+%. That is unnatural, just like it would be unnatural for a lion to have 20 to 30% of it's diet be grass and so on.

 

 

 

But we're not herbivores or carnivores. We're omnivores.

[Zierro]

You missed the point. It's called opportunity. Since we have the opportunity to craft spears, we will hunt for meat. Since we have the opportunity to buy meat at the grocery store, we will eat it.

[Agunimon979]

humans arent natural predators? what? humans are at the top of the food chain. just because we use traps and guns to kill our food instead of "biting it in the neck" doesnt mean we arent predators.

 

 

 

 

Humans are predators? HA. Since when? In the last 50 years everyone now buys their meat from the store or from the restaraunt. Who actually goes out to kill a cow to make burgers for the family tonight? No of course not, we all buy our food from a restaraunt or a store. Even the factories that produce this meat are not hunters. The cows are mass bred in a factory, fed crap and slaughtered inhumanely, which is not similar to hunting. We humans have lost our hunting title in the last 50 or so years. This is all part of capitalism but I won't go into that now.

[Zierro]

Humans are predators? HA. Since when? In the last 50 years everyone now buys their meat from the store or from the restaraunt. Who actually goes out to kill a cow to make burgers for the family tonight? No of course not, we all buy our food from a restaraunt or a store. Even the factories that produce this meat are not hunters. The cows are mass bred in a factory, fed crap and slaughtered inhumanely, which is not similar to hunting. We humans have lost our hunting title in the last 50 or so years. This is all part of capitalism but I won't go into that now.

 

 

 

The ends justifies the means. Just because we've developed more efficient methods means we weren't meant to?