Jump to content

Today...


Leoo

Recommended Posts

The flaw of course being that you have to have a definition for "toxic masculinity"

I think that's the issue. There doesn't seem to be any objective, specific definition for things like "rape culture" or "toxic masculinity"-- which means anyone can interpret them as they see fit and apply them whenever they want since they're such broad, vague terms.

  • Like 1

77yLQy8.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@nyo i'll let muggi respond to your points as they're addressed to him, but I will say that all interactions between humans are transactional when you consider it, even if they don't necessarily appear that way at first glance

  • Like 1

polvCwJ.gif
"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair warning, I'm probably not very qualified to comment on dating. I'm less qualified to comment on straight dating.

Thanks for being honest.

 

---

Sex is something women allow men to have or that men earn from women.

1. Generally, yeah. There's a reason why I'm the one expected to make the first move and lead things along-- it's because I was born as a male. Until a significant number of women insist on assuming roles traditionally reserved for and expected of men, and vice versa, you have to operate under traditional expectations if you want to be in control of your dating life. Is that fair? Not really, but pretending that the world exists how you wish it would exist, rather than how it actually exists usually leads to unhappiness and a lack of success.

If sex is something that men get from women, what do women get?

 

Attention.

 

The whole "make him wait" thing ignores that she's deciding for herself to not have sex with him, which she has agency to do. It's written instead as though she's decided to take action against him by withholding.

I agree that she has the agency to either have sex sooner or later, just as he has the agency to decide if he's willing to wait for sex or not. I elaborated on my stance here.

 

When sex is something that is given or earned, you get a very transactional view of sex, and I'm not interested in that. If I wanted transactional sex, I'd go pay for sex. Opening a potential long-term relationship with the idea that sex is for trade makes little sense to me.

That sex is something given by women to men sort of precludes it being something she can enjoy or want for herself, something she can receive, something he could do for her.

Sometimes sex is transactional, sometimes it isn't. There's a reason why you hear stories of wives and girlfriends withholding sex from their partners, but not usually the other way around. Men and women view and prioritize sex differently.

 

It also absolves him of putting any effort into her enjoyment. I can't get behind any of that.

I disagree with that-- I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Sure there's plenty of men out there who don't give a shit about their partner's enjoyment, but it's usually in the man's best interest to make sure his partner enjoys having sex with him.

 

I'm not sure what sort of control is left to someone who is compelled to conform to perceived expectations, or how that control is worth the lost freedom to be genuine. I also don't understand how role-playing to get laid can be a satisfying substitute for an honest relationship.

 

The topic of "being genuine" goes back to the points I made here and here. If you're not satisfied with your dating life despite being 100% genuine, then that means you're doing something wrong and you need to do something differently. In order to do something differently, you have to change in some way. And if you're going to change, then you have to discard a piece of yourself in order to transform into something new and adapt to your current challenges. Like a caterpillar metamorphosing into a butterfly. It's still the same creature; but it's also different.

 

So you could say the lost freedom to be genuine is worth it when you're rewarded for your efforts in ways you weren't prior to your transformation. And after the transformation is complete, you regain the freedom to be genuine-- but this newfound authenticity manifests itself differently; and if you were to behave like you did prior to the transformation, you'd no longer be behaving genuinely. Hope that makes sense.

 

You mention success, but I'm not sure what you mean by that or how you measure it.

Success is subjective and varies wildly from person to person. Within the context of dating and relationships, some people consider getting married as the ultimate form of success in that area. For others, they don't consider marriage a success unless it lasts for the rest of their lives, without either of them cheating, and without either of them resenting each other.

 

Some people view success as simply being able to get laid, or to get a girlfriend.

 

For me, personally, my idea of success is being able to have enough control over my dating life such that I can go meet and have sex with at least two new women within 30 days; as well as the ability to date 2-3 women simultaneously, without getting monogamous, and without lying to them. This requires me to put in a lot of time and effort into understanding how to meet women and how to successfully and ethically communicate my desires to them.

 

---

Sex is all about men, and women are the gatekeepers who can be placated by filling a role and acting in a certain "manly" way that isn't necessarily in their nature.

2. Disagree; both genders both have their own unique roles, expectations, desires, and priorities. Generally speaking, if you act outside of your expected role, your options will be narrowed and your experience will be more challenging. If you behave in a way which suggests you desire something you actually don't, your experience will be more challenging.

You say you disagree, but what you wrote doesn't seem to counter what you were replying to.

 

With regard to "roles, expectations, desires, and priorities," I believe there are more variation among men or among women than between either group.

I think you're ignoring or understating the challenges that accompany being constrained by the role played; the things you must do, or the things you would do but can't, desires forbidden by your role, or pretended interest.

 

You don't seem to acknowledge that you also narrow your options by conforming to those roles; those people wind up in your "not interested" bin, and you might never know (or care) why. Maybe one is more severe than the other, or more desirable. I place a much great value on being true to myself than on having sex with someone who might only be willing as long as I fill a certain role.

 

I disagree that sex is all about men, however more often than not I'd argue that women are the gatekeepers of sex. The necessity of fitting into your predefined gender role mostly depends on what your idea of success is with regards to dating/relationships, like I just covered.

 

If all you want is to have sex with one girl, or just have one girlfriend, or just get married to one woman, then your idea of success will be easier to reach than mine since mine requires consistency. However, in my experience, as well as the experience of others (just ask Veiva or browse through the past month's posts in the relationships thread), the more you behave within your gender role, the easier it will be for you to find a partner. There's exceptions obviously, but generally if you're a heterosexual male looking for a heterosexual female, the more traditionally masculine you are, the more options and "room for error" you have when dating.

 

I'm privileged in the sense that I was born a cis heterosexual man that seeks heterosexual women. However by the time I was an adult at age 18, I wasn't very masculine at all; I had to dedicate a lot of time and effort into exploring my masculinity and cultivating it. Again, I'm privileged in that I find it satisfying to become more masculine because there aren't many downsides to it. Someone like Veiva doesn't have this luxury since he's bisexual and enjoys being feminine, unlike me.

 

---

Any individuality of the particular person sitting across the table from you is irrelevant, because women are all similar enough that they're pretty well interchangeable.

3. Every woman's different. But most women will react favorably to the three things I listed here, which are emphasized in the blog post you're criticizing. I don't think there's any women out there that would say, "I dislike men who dress well" or "I dislike men who are self-assured and confident" or "I dislike men who take care of their bodies." Or, at the very least, if such women exist, they're in the extreme minority to the point where it's safe to assume that a woman you're on a date with doesn't belong in that category.

I don't think there are many people (regardless of gender or orientation) who are more interested in people who dress poorly, severely lack confidence, and treat their bodies like garbage; never mind people who are more interested because of those things. Selling it as "what women want" seems disingenuous.

 

I agree. My point was that PUA, ideally, is meant to be self-improvement for men, within the context of dating. Unfortunately, given the nature of sexually-frustrated men or men who have become jaded, a lot of this gets warped in unethical, misogynistic ways. It's like manufacturing guns for the purpose of self-defense, but acknowledging the fact that there's some psychos out there who will use guns maliciously. The aspects of PUA that I've studied the most were essentially how to become a more confident, well-rounded person. It sounds like common sense but it's not something that I was taught growing up. I was taught to simply "be myself," change nothing about myself, and eventually I'd find someone who liked me for who I was. That never happened. And after I expanded my goals to more than just finding one girlfriend or wife, that also required me to evolve as a man. I was also raised to feel somewhat ashamed for wanting to have sex with women so I never learned how to explore my own sexuality, and how to ethically and effectively communicate my sexuality to women until I discovered PUA.

 

---

It seems like the idea of men consciously doing something "unnatural" in order to get laid, as opposed to being 100% "natural" or "being themselves" is what's leaving a bad taste in your mouth. Does that sound about right?

That's certainly part of it, but I also don't like painting around half the planet's population with a single brush either. Any assertion that women or men are a certain way, or should be a certain way, is going to ruffle my feathers. Even if you qualify it with "most," you're using very broad strokes.

Presenting women as machines with buttons for a potential partner to press is upsetting in a visceral way, that sex is the reward for pressing the right buttons probably doesn't help.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree, especially with regards to "most." There's plenty of variation among everyone-- everyone's unique in their own ways. But we all still have the same basic blueprints for our brains and our bodies. Our upbringings and genetics are what make everybody unique; and some people have mutations and disorders. As an extreme example, if you were to randomly punch 100 strangers in the face unprovoked, I think it's safe to say that "most" of them would react negatively. Does that mean I'm painting humans with a single brush? Technically yes, but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say here. I've been on hundreds of first dates now over the years, and so have many of the PUA gurus-- so when they give advice based on experience like that, I'd like to assume that there must be some merit to what they're saying. Whether they're right for the right reasons or not is up in the air, but I think it's silly to dismiss everything they're saying just because they're speaking in generalizations.

77yLQy8.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nyosuht, I'm with you that painting with broad strokes is off putting, but I think we would have to start publishing actual novels if we wanted to be as clear and dry as we needed to be when discussing what we believe to be proper "transactions" of human interactions.

Quote

 

Quote

Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic.

Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos.

 

PSA: SaqPrets is an Estonian Dude

Steam: NippleBeardTM

Origin: Brand_New_iPwn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Car question:

 

There's a periodic scraping noise coming from the front passenger tire. It stops when I apply even a little pressure to the brakes. The sound doesn't change with speed as far as I can tell. It doesn't always make the sounds. The sound is unaffected by turning and doesn't happen if I'm completely stopped.

 

What could it be?

 

I'm driving up to DC Friday and have work / school tomorrow so I'm kinda in a bind regarding getting it checked out.

 

If it helps I recently had the tires replaced.

ozXHe7P.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe the tires are unbalanced? One or more of the nuts loose and the tire is wobbling? Something between brake pads? Dozens of reasons for it.

  • Like 1

t3aGt.png

 

So I've noticed this thread's regulars all follow similar trends.

 

RPG is constantly dealing with psycho exes.

Muggi reminds us of the joys of polygamy.

Saq is totally oblivious to how much chicks dig him.

I strike out every other week.

Kalphite wages a war against the friend zone.

Randox pretty much stays rational.

Etc, etc

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it metal on metal sounding? Is it on the outside face of the wheel or the inside? Is it more under your left foot or outside of the vehicle?

 

But ultimately I would have a hard time telling you what it was without being there to look at it

  • Like 1
Quote

 

Quote

Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic.

Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos.

 

PSA: SaqPrets is an Estonian Dude

Steam: NippleBeardTM

Origin: Brand_New_iPwn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I know no one's going to know the exact cause I was just wondering what general things would cause it

 

I'm pretty sure it's the brakes, it sounds just like when my brother's disc brakes on his bicycle aren't aligned properly, except louder...

 

I'm going to have to skip class and get it looked at after my therapy appointment. RIP.

ozXHe7P.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's snowing like crazy and they said use your best judgement about driving into work today.

 

*Equips Icicle plate and wanders off*

"Fight for what you believe in, and believe in what you're fighting for." Can games be art?

---

 

 

cWCZMZO.png

l1M6sfb.png

My blog here if you want to check out my Times articles and other writings! I always appreciate comments/feedback.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was just the brake pads. They were... very worn in the rear.

 

Woo DC tomorrow so excited!

 

didn't have to skip class btw I'm just good at scheduling/organizing I'm destined to become CTO of some big tech company mark my words I'll be a magnificent CTO the best

ozXHe7P.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fitness update because it's the only thing I'm really pursuing outside of school right now: squatted 275lbs x 3 yesterday. Nothing to write home about yet but it's come a long way since I start (135 x 5 in early June). Other than that I'm still in grad school, which is somehow the worst iteration of school I've yet encountered.

 

that's impressive-- my squats suck. how much do you weigh?

  • Like 1

77yLQy8.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ate 6 hot dogs and watched the Flyers get robbed by a shit ref

 

Also I'm pretty sure the crossbar was wearing a Devils jersey

Quote

 

Quote

Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic.

Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos.

 

PSA: SaqPrets is an Estonian Dude

Steam: NippleBeardTM

Origin: Brand_New_iPwn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't do squats, my knees are busted :(

 

For the first time in my life I am actually dating 2 girls at the same time. Luckily in different towns, so no chance of happening on eachother by accident. And one is a foreigner. Somehow, both are angels, don't drink, smoke or do any crazy stuff. So far.

Gonna be interesting...

t3aGt.png

 

So I've noticed this thread's regulars all follow similar trends.

 

RPG is constantly dealing with psycho exes.

Muggi reminds us of the joys of polygamy.

Saq is totally oblivious to how much chicks dig him.

I strike out every other week.

Kalphite wages a war against the friend zone.

Randox pretty much stays rational.

Etc, etc

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was my reaction for the whole past week.

t3aGt.png

 

So I've noticed this thread's regulars all follow similar trends.

 

RPG is constantly dealing with psycho exes.

Muggi reminds us of the joys of polygamy.

Saq is totally oblivious to how much chicks dig him.

I strike out every other week.

Kalphite wages a war against the friend zone.

Randox pretty much stays rational.

Etc, etc

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have quite a few threads I'd like to post in, but I already have the last post, so I am in a pickle :(

 

Finished the Metro book trilogy. Gotta admit, it was somewhat surprising. Or actually, a really big plot twist. In the final book, that is.

t3aGt.png

 

So I've noticed this thread's regulars all follow similar trends.

 

RPG is constantly dealing with psycho exes.

Muggi reminds us of the joys of polygamy.

Saq is totally oblivious to how much chicks dig him.

I strike out every other week.

Kalphite wages a war against the friend zone.

Randox pretty much stays rational.

Etc, etc

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No shame in double posting, especially if it's been 24 hours.

 

I too enjoyed seeing so much discussion on here for a change.

Quote

 

Quote

Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic.

Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos.

 

PSA: SaqPrets is an Estonian Dude

Steam: NippleBeardTM

Origin: Brand_New_iPwn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.