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#50521
jasignhagj
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The Liberal Media coverage has been far worse. It seems the modern left would rather defend Islam than protect LGBT people.

And the modern right would rather attack Islam than accept that LGBT people exist in the same capacity as anyone else. It's more sanctimonious for the right to pretend to have even a shred of concern for the victims when they themselves were the biggest threat to them before today, and probably will be again tomorrow.

 

 

How on earth can you say conservatives are the biggest threat to LGBT peolpe when a islamic terrorist just gunned down 50 people at a gay bar and further attacks have been promised?

 

And that's certainly not the viewpoint of the younger, modern right. The Trump subreddit has an LGBT flag in its header right now and has been accepting and celebrating LGBT supporters for months.



#50522
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How on earth can you say conservatives are the biggest threat to LGBT peolpe when a islamic terrorist just gunned down 50 people at a gay bar and further attacks have been promised?

Because I follow US politics. I know that it isn't necessarily the case elsewhere, but here it is.

Because I can very clearly see who's supporting legislation designed to strip us of our basic right to exist in public places here.

Because I've seen the statistics and murder rates and I really don't have the energy or willpower to dig them up tonight, but I've personally spoken to people younger than I am that supported the same and worse.

Because the guy who was arrested bringing an arsenal of guns to LA Pride was a young white guy.

Because the reason people are in the closet isn't rare chance of a Muslim terrorist, and it isn't a Muslim terrorist that's responsible every single time someone is murdered or pushed to suicide for existing out in the open.

 

If that's not representative of Trump's supporters on Reddit, good for them. I'll believe it when I see it. Especially when the shooter himself was apparently not motivated by religion whatsoever (and didn't even practice), according to his family.



#50523
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/r/the_donald was so gross today. They've always been gross people who have openly been horrible towards GSMs, and only now do they show any (thinly veiled) support when it allows them to condemn Islam. It's just a bunch of bigoted [wagon] who hate Muslims more than they hate gays.

#50524
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Today I played a ton of Diablo 3 and then realized... all the work I made in D3 will probably be completely wasted when the new expansion comes out. Quite depressing.


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#50525
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Had some Moosehead, Mad Tom's, Mill street 100th, Shot Put or sth like that.

 

Still, it sucks.

However, it is better than 'mudican pisswasser.

 

 

Still waiting for proposals to go out somewhere here. We are having loadsa fun being inappropriate.


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#50526
Bonez899
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Had some Moosehead, Mad Tom's, Mill street 100th, Shot Put or sth like that.

Sounds like mostly microbrews that you tried. Although the one macro, Moosehead, is basically moose piss.

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#50527
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Had some Moosehead, Mad Tom's, Mill street 100th, Shot Put or sth like that.
 

Sounds like mostly microbrews that you tried. Although the one macro, Moosehead, is basically moose piss.

 

Maybe it's Moose semen. The name would make sense then.



#50528
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Because I follow US politics. I know that it isn't necessarily the case elsewhere, but here it is.


I was hoping to steer clear of this shit show, but here we go...
 

Because I can very clearly see who's supporting legislation designed to strip us of our basic right to exist in public places here.


A little perspective here: some members of the GOP want to keep bathrooms single-gender. Muslims all over the world are literally murdering homosexual people. They are not remotely comparable.
 

Because I've seen the statistics and murder rates and I really don't have the energy or willpower to dig them up tonight, but I've personally spoken to people younger than I am that supported the same and worse.


I'm not even sure what this means. Some people are bigoted idiots? I agree, but there's a pattern here: homosexuality is illegal (in some cases punishable by death) in the vast majority of muslim countries. Once again; have some perspective. It doesn't mean all muslims should be demonized, but western/white/christian transgressions against the LGBT community in most cases amount to an annoyance at best, not literal murder and torture.
 

Because the guy who was arrested bringing an arsenal of guns to LA Pride was a young white guy.


And the guy who actually killed 50 gay men was a muslim who pledged allegiance to ISIS.
 

Because the reason people are in the closet isn't rare chance of a Muslim terrorist, and it isn't a Muslim terrorist that's responsible every single time someone is murdered or pushed to suicide for existing out in the open.


Uh, how many people are actually murdered for being gay in the states? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I haven't seen any evidence it's anything other than extremely rare. Yet in the middle east, people are regularly murdered (or put to death "legally") for being gay.
 

If that's not representative of Trump's supporters on Reddit, good for them. I'll believe it when I see it. Especially when the shooter himself was apparently not motivated by religion whatsoever (and didn't even practice), according to his family.


He pledged allegiance to ISIS, shouted "Allah Akbar" at the cops, and was proud of the Tsarnaevs. But it had nothing to do with religion, right? Give me a break.

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#50529
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Had some Moosehead, Mad Tom's, Mill street 100th, Shot Put or sth like that.

Sounds like mostly microbrews that you tried. Although the one macro, Moosehead, is basically moose piss.


Yeah moosehead and mill street are mainstream beers, Molson/coors/abinbev etc.

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#50530
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I'm not even sure what this means. Some people are bigoted idiots? I agree, but there's a pattern here: homosexuality is illegal (in some cases punishable by death) in the vast majority of muslim countries. Once again; have some perspective. It doesn't mean all muslims should be demonized, but western/white/christian transgressions against the LGBT community in most cases amount to an annoyance at best, not literal murder and torture.


How do anti-LGBT policies in Middle Eastern countries have anything to do with American citizens being suppressed by anti-LGBT policies pushed through by American legislators?

I understood Alg to be talking from an American perspective. Hate attacks by Muslims against gays are statistically non-significant in the United States. She is right in saying that the American right are the greatest threat to LGBT, if we are speaking about America.

By the way, anti-LGBT policies in the United States are not "an annoyance at best." I just want to say you're absurd. That's all.

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#50531
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How do anti-LGBT policies in Middle Eastern countries have anything to do with American citizens being suppressed by anti-LGBT policies pushed through by American legislators?


They don't, I'm just making the point that saying homophobic policies in the states pale in comparison to what is experienced throughout the world.

I understood Alg to be talking from an American perspective. Hate attacks by Muslims against gays are statistically non-significant in the United States.


I'll take it one step further and say that hate attacks by anyone against gays are statistically non-significant in the United States.

She is right in saying that the American right are the greatest threat to LGBT, if we are speaking about America.


Right, and the greatest threat to gays in the states is being told what bathroom to use. Gay marriage is now legal and and increasing number of people (on all sides of the political spectrum) see nothing wrong with being gay.

By the way, anti-LGBT policies in the United States are not "an annoyance at best." I just want to say you're absurd. That's all.

Compared to being murdered, being told what bathroom to use is an annoyance. I don't deny that the bathroom bill is silly and misguided, but it's not remotely comparable to the actual serious injustice faced by LGBT people in less enlightened places.

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#50532
Alg
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Let me google that for you. I'm sorry that it's nothing concise or organized but as I said earlier, I really do not want to look at these statistics again. I don't really even want to reply again but god knows you're not going to look it up for yourself. And yes, things are worse in the middle east. This isn't about the middle east, just that the right cares more about exterminating Islam than the dead. The shooter was as American as I am, and by some accounts (read: people that knew him), probably less religious. But yes, this is all a minor annoyance at best and I'm just overreacting because... politics, probably. Or I'm inherently excitable. But not because I've been seeing this bullshit for a long time and only avoided the literally murderous part of it myself through pure dumb luck.

[bleep] off. You wouldn't give a shit if the shooter didn't justify your own beliefs. This lets everyone look the other way because 'hey we're not as bad as we could be'. Never mind that earlier this week someone put an actual bomb in a Target bathroom in the name of public safety. But all terrorists are Muslims, so we can't bother with that. And did you even know about conversion therapy? Which is pretty explicitly torture, that the vast majority of the country has yet to ban?

You're not a devil's advocate, you're just a bigot who didn't bother to do the research. And yes, I'm mad, because I very much like not being dead because I showed affection in front of the wrong person - which, according to the shooter's family, is what motivated him more than a religion he didn't seem to be practicing (was he fasting at all?). I don't doubt that if the LA shooter succeeded that the right would be at best defending him as a poor mentally ill person who would have been stopped if it weren't for California's gun laws, if they didn't quietly celebrate him.

Edit: jesus [bleep] Obfuscator DO THE DAMN RESEARCH. Or cite your sources. This is ridiculous. You're literally making things up. If this is what passes for intelligence and maturity on this site I want nothing to do with it. It's not a difference of opinion or a debate or anything of the sort anymore, it's just you spouting bigotry in an attempt to justify more bigotry. What the [bleep] even happened to this site

#50533
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Let me google that for you.
I'm sorry that it's nothing concise or organized but as I said earlier, I really do not want to look at these statistics again. I don't really even want to reply again but god knows you're not going to look it up for yourself. And yes, things are worse in the middle east. This isn't about the middle east, just that the right cares more about exterminating Islam than the dead. The shooter was as American as I am, and by some accounts (read: people that knew him), probably less religious. But yes, this is all a minor annoyance at best and I'm just overreacting because... politics, probably. Or I'm inherently excitable. But not because I've been seeing this bullshit for a long time and only avoided the literally murderous part of it myself through pure dumb luck.
[bleep] off. You wouldn't give a shit if the shooter didn't justify your own beliefs. This lets everyone look the other way because 'hey we're not as bad as we could be'. Never mind that earlier this week someone put an actual bomb in a Target bathroom in the name of public safety. But all terrorists are Muslims, so we can't bother with that. And did you even know about conversion therapy? Which is pretty explicitly torture, that the vast majority of the country has yet to ban?


What are my beliefs, exactly? I give a shit about innocent people being murdered, no matter who they are. I'm not suggesting everyone "look the other way", I think that when it comes to formal legislation introduced by the government, there is no reasonable comparison to murder. Are there individuals who hate LGBT people and want to hurt or kill them? Absolutely; across all races and religions. But there is not a country-wide epidemic of anti-gay violence. Even the statistics you cited list approximately 2000 murders perpetrated against LGBT people (of course there is also the question of whether this violence is because of their LGBT status or simply a coincidence), which makes up approximately 15% of all murders comitted in the United States. If you take gay people being 10% of the population as a benchmark, and expand that to include the umbrella of trans and other individuals, it doesn't paint a picture of a disproportionate amount of murder being committed against the LGBT community in general. Of course the LGBT community faces problems. The homelessness and suicide statistics are particularly disheartening, but the LGBT community does not hold a monopoly on either of these unfortunate outcomes. Your previous post did not mention these things, only the bathroom bill, so that's what I contrasted with the murder and torture of gay people overseas. Certainly these things are more problematic and at least somewhat comparable to the kind of life-ending discrimination faced in the middle east.

Using such generalizations as "The right cares more about exterminating Islam than the dead" is equally ridiculous. If you include any GOP supporter as being part of the right, this makes over 100 million people. It's not some hive mind where everyone feels the exact same way about every issue. And even then, the most radical GOP politician in recent history (Trump) is not calling for any violence against Muslims, let alone "extermination". It's also clearly an exageration to say you've only avoided the murderous part of LGBT discrimination through pure dumb luck as it is statistically quite rare. You might as well say you've avoided being struck by lightning through pure dumb luck.

 

You're not a devil's advocate, you're just a bigot who didn't bother to do the research. And yes, I'm mad, because I very much like not being dead because I showed affection in front of the wrong person - which, according to the shooter's family, is what motivated him more than a religion he didn't seem to be practicing (was he fasting at all?). I don't doubt that if the LA shooter succeeded that the right would be at best defending him as a poor mentally ill person who would have been stopped if it weren't for California's gun laws, if they didn't quietly celebrate him.

Edit: jesus [bleep] Obfuscator DO THE DAMN RESEARCH. Or cite your sources. This is ridiculous. You're literally making things up. If this is what passes for intelligence and maturity on this site I want nothing to do with it. It's not a difference of opinion or a debate or anything of the sort anymore, it's just you spouting bigotry in an attempt to justify more bigotry. What the [bleep] even happened to this site


I'm not going to respond to this emotional diatribe point by point. I will say, however, that on a personal level, I'm disappointed in your behaviour here. I remember you (quite fondly, in fact) as a rational, reasonable individual who was always willing to engage in respectful, thoughful debate, who steered clear of name calling and throwing insults. It's a pity that this seems to no longer be the case.

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#50534
RpgGamer
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Terrorists act to divide us. Don't let them succeed.
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Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos.




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#50535
RpgGamer
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Terrorists act to divide us. Don't let them succeed.
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Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic.

Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos.




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#50536
muggiwhplar
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Let's hold hands and sing kum ba yah

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#50537
Ring_World
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Let me google that for you. I'm sorry that it's nothing concise or organized but as I said earlier, I really do not want to look at these statistics again. I don't really even want to reply again but god knows you're not going to look it up for yourself. And yes, things are worse in the middle east. This isn't about the middle east, just that the right cares more about exterminating Islam than the dead. The shooter was as American as I am, and by some accounts (read: people that knew him), probably less religious. But yes, this is all a minor annoyance at best and I'm just overreacting because... politics, probably. Or I'm inherently excitable. But not because I've been seeing this bullshit for a long time and only avoided the literally murderous part of it myself through pure dumb luck.


[bleep] off. You wouldn't give a shit if the shooter didn't justify your own beliefs. This lets everyone look the other way because 'hey we're not as bad as we could be'. Never mind that earlier this week someone put an actual bomb in a Target bathroom in the name of public safety. But all terrorists are Muslims, so we can't bother with that. And did you even know about conversion therapy? Which is pretty explicitly torture, that the vast majority of the country has yet to ban?

You're not a devil's advocate, you're just a bigot who didn't bother to do the research. And yes, I'm mad, because I very much like not being dead because I showed affection in front of the wrong person - which, according to the shooter's family, is what motivated him more than a religion he didn't seem to be practicing (was he fasting at all?). I don't doubt that if the LA shooter succeeded that the right would be at best defending him as a poor mentally ill person who would have been stopped if it weren't for California's gun laws, if they didn't quietly celebrate him.

Edit: jesus [bleep] Obfuscator DO THE DAMN RESEARCH. Or cite your sources. This is ridiculous. You're literally making things up. If this is what passes for intelligence and maturity on this site I want nothing to do with it. It's not a difference of opinion or a debate or anything of the sort anymore, it's just you spouting bigotry in an attempt to justify more bigotry. What the [bleep] even happened to this site

 

 

I'll bite.

 

We all have underlying beliefs that we seek to justify. I made a post making fun of the assumptions about the shooter you would see flying around facebook depending on the shooters demographics. 

 

But I think you miss Obfuscators points. I believe he was saying that the political beliefs of a nation typically indicate the beliefs of individuals and is it surprising that a 2nd generation immigrant from a place where its legal to kill someone for being gay is willing to kill someone for being gay.



#50538
rocc0
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There's a point on each side of this Orlando thing that boggles my mind. Apologies in advance as well since I'm in France at the moment and haven't been keeping up with current events quite as well as I should, correct me if I'm misinformed here.

 

On the right - I've seen a lot of my right-wing friends suggesting that less gun control would have prevented this. I think their point is that this would have allowed the patrons of the club or potentially guards to have stopped the gunman before so many were killed or wounded. However, I've read that the gunman had been reported for extremist views in his workplace, had traveled to Saudi Arabia (a country which executes homosexuals) on multiple occasions, had been interviewed by the FBI for alleged terrorist ties, and was apparently on some sort of watch list (although I've also seen contrary reports). He also purchased the guns he used within the past few days. Surely if there is anyone who shouldn't be able to legally purchase a gun, it's this guy, right? Can we compromise on gun control at least to the point that people like this are blocked from such purchases?

 

On the left - what is with the doublethink about the relationship between this attack and Islam? Whether this guy actually had contact with ISIS operatives, whether he did this purely for religion or not, I have no idea and I'm sure those details will come to light soon. Seemingly, at least based on this article (https://en.wikipedia...c_jurisprudence), the belief that homosexuality is wrong and ought to be punished by death is relatively well supported (though not without opposition) in Islam for over a thousand years, including in modern states like Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Iran. Don't pretend that this belief is unique to terrorists, it's a clear "No True Scotsman". I'm sure there are very many Muslims, especially in the US, who don't believe this, but if the belief coincides with Islamic views I don't see how you can suggest that the terrorist isn't a real Muslim, or that no real Muslims would perpetrate such a crime. And if we open our borders to these people too freely, there's a very real chance that they will come in and continue to hold these views which I'm sure we can all agree are contrary to our values - not only that, but some might even act on those views as the shooter seems to have done.

 

Other news - Europe has been awesome. Favorite place so far has to be Budapest, really weird city in a good way.


TANSTAAFL


#50539
Ring_World
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On the right -

 

1.) people on the right are suspicious of the government and believe (wrongly) that an armed population can resist a future tyranical US gov that responds militarily to resistance to bad laws

2.) On top of that they believe that police intervention takes too long to respond to prevent situations and point to examples of copycat crimes such as after aurora being stopped by an off duty armed cop

3.) They also (wrongly) believe that any attempt to limit gun rights will be the first step down the slippery slope to the mythical tyranical government

4.) What the right thinks about Muslim populations: 

ce299a847eb1fc09cda75d79639b98ef.png

 

based on this graph (assuming these are true and the distributions are bell curves) they would believe that the average violence lies further to the right of the rest of the population. given this you would expect a very low number of extreme right views in the general population but a significantly higher percentage of the population shifted slightly to the right of the general population.

 

This is because of the area under the curve at any point is going to be significantly higher with even just a slight difference in average population curves. 

 

Ie: the tallest person in the world may be a woman but if male heights are centerered further to the right you would expect most tall people to be male.



#50540
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The left -

 

6ca3730b51132a62d31ad18145142109.png

 

general believes that all populations will overlap statistically if they are treated equally. That any deviation from the left or right is a result of culture, oppression, or expectations.

 

Some on the far left go so far as to say that men and womens heights should be exactly equal but differ because families feed male children more.

 

 

 

As a rule attacking groups contributes to the above and that the only way to get everyone on the same bell curve is to equalize society enough for petty differences to be forgotten. 

 

 

 

 

But if you wanna get into why the left and right act the way they do it comes down to this. The left typically believes that differences in groups are a result of culture and the right typically believes differences in groups are a result of biology. Given that most issues the left and right differ on are easily explainable.







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