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#55381
obfuscator
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obfuscator

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And I would say you're just as wrong about "drunk driving culture." Into my 20s, I honestly believed that drinking and driving was normal.
Sure, I had that one uncle who hasn't had a license in decades and just got caught again; his problem wasn't drinking and driving, just that he'd chosen the wrong roads or shouldn't have taken a car with one headlight out.
My sister's boyfriend would run up the old railroad tracks. He rolled a truck with her in it not a week after buying it, and was back to doing the same thing with a beater car within a month. She kept going along.
Cops were a hazard, but you just had to get good at avoiding them or good at losing them.

It wasn't until I moved away that I realized how [bleep]ed up that was.

 
 
 
Don't take this the wrong way, but what redneck-cousin humping-wife beating trailer park did you grow up in? That is seriously not normal at all outside of poor and uneducated places. What you describe basically sounds like Ricky from Trailer Park Boys.


ehh a lot of people in the US are still poor and uneducated, so I can believe him, even if it's only anecdotal

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#55382
Major Dash
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There's a difference between poor and uneducated and "poor and uneducated and normalizing breaking well know laws."


19509_s.gif

 

“I had a feeling we weren’t coming back from this fight when it began.”

“Do you have any regrets?”

“I don’t. It seems surprising, I know, but I wouldn’t change a thing. This is how it was meant to be.”

“Huh, you never really notice how lovely the day is until you realize you’ll never see it again.”

“Mmmhmm.”

 


#55383
Nyosuht
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Don't take this the wrong way, but what redneck-cousin humping-wife beating trailer park did you grow up in? That is seriously not normal at all outside of poor and uneducated places. What you describe basically sounds like Ricky from Trailer Park Boys.

Basically here:

Beautiful area, really.

There's a difference between poor and uneducated and "poor and uneducated and normalizing breaking well know laws."

It's only illegal if you get caught.

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In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. ~Samuel Adams; 1 August, 1776
There are men, in all ages, who mean to exercise power usefully; but who mean to exercise it. They mean to govern well; but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind masters; but they mean to be masters. ~Daniel Webster; 15 March, 1837


#55384
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i like michigan tbh, not like detroit, but i've been through a bunch of it. it reminds me of northern ontario, just american

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#55385
muggiwhplar
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It's only illegal if you get caught.

Do people with that mentality not recognize the danger they're putting innocent people in?

 

Sadly I met a lot of people in college who didn't give a [bleep] about drunk driving. I think the Dunning Kruger Effect is in play a lot of the time here-- these people are so arrogant and lacking in self-awareness that they genuinely believe that they're capable of driving correctly despite being hammered. Unsurprisingly, most of those people ended up with DUIs by the time they graduated. Some even got multiple DUIs. :wall:


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#55386
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It's only illegal if you get caught.

Do people with that mentality not recognize the danger they're putting innocent people in?
 
Sadly I met a lot of people in college who didn't give a [bleep] about drunk driving. I think the Dunning Kruger Effect is in play a lot of the time here-- these people are so arrogant and lacking in self-awareness that they genuinely believe that they're capable of driving correctly despite being hammered. Unsurprisingly, most of those people ended up with DUIs by the time they graduated. Some even got multiple DUIs. :wall:


i've seen this more with weed now than alcohol

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#55387
muggiwhplar
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Wheras I'm unconvinced that they are in fact more successful than other men who are just as persistent/good looking/whatever, but who don't assume secret "biological" reasons behind all of a woman's actions.

And we can debate this until the cows come jome, but neither one of us intends to go looking for proof that will be sufficiently convincing to the other. Thus, agree to disagree.

 

There's a lot of nuance in PUA literature that I think most people (both PUAs and people who condemn PUA) either lack the willingness or the ability to carefully examine. The fact that you used negging as an example suggests to me that you haven't really spent much time researching PUA-- like obfuscator said, nobody on this forum has said anything about negging within the last 10 years. That's a term that became popularized with Mystery in like 1998, and by 2008 nobody used it anymore both because it's unethical and because it's ineffective.

 

I don't really want to identify as a PUA or anything because whenever I look at PUA forums, or /r/theredpill, or any subreddit or forum associated with PUA, men's dating, men's rights, etc. I roll my eyes at 99% of the stuff I read there because it reeks of insecure men who can't get laid, but think they understand how things work  due to faulty logic and trusting the wrong dating authority figures.

 

I've been studying PUA literature since like 2005, and experimenting with different things over the years to figure out what works and what doesn't work for me-- and that's a big part of it. What works for me might not work to you due to differences in our physical appearance, personalities, beliefs, and geographical location.

 

For that reason, I think it's important for men to be "proactive skeptics." Meaning, they should read some piece of advice online, and then they should go out into the real world and see how it works for them. I'd argue that the vast, vast majority of men are too afraid to do that; they'd rather just sit in the comfort of their computer chair, devouring knowledge that they'll never put into practice to determine its validity, while simultaneously boosting their egos as some sort of ladies man because they think they have all the answers, despite not having any experience to back it up.

 

With that said, there are indeed some pieces of advice that are almost universal for all men to follow, which will definitely help them be more successful with women, regardless of what their goals are, and regardless of what their personal variables are which I mentioned above (appearance, personality, location, etc).

 

1. Maximize your physical attractiveness: go to the gym and if you're underweight, go put on muscle. If you're overweight, go lose fat. If nobody consistently compliments your hairstyle, go to a stylist and have them give you a fashionable haircut that works with your facial structure. If you never receive consistent compliments on your attire, upgrade your wardrobe and get cool clothes which accentuate your physique.

 

2. Develop good social skills like a normal human being: get a job which forces you to be social, depending on where you fall on the "social skills" bell curve. If you're in the bottom 10% and you're afraid to make eye contact with strangers, then go work as a cashier where you're forced to interact with tons of people, but conversation is optional. If you're comfortable around strangers but don't know how to talk to them or how to deal with them, then work in sales and you'll be forced to learn that skill.

 

3. Develop confidence: this comes from both experience and success-- I had to go on literally hundreds of first dates before I got to the point where I'm at now. and I had to get rejected, both online and in person, by hundreds of women as well. most men aren't willing to subject themselves to such a difficult path to self-improvement. it's easier to whine and complain than to put in the effort. but now I'm confident enough to make a move on a woman and see where things go, and I'm confident enough to be completely verbally upfront and straightforward about my desires if I want to be.

 

 

#3 is the one where most guys get confused. they don't have the confidence to go out and see what works with them, so they never develop any confidence until they do. they might even know what they "should" be doing, and that it's worked for others, but they still can't bring themselves to do it because they're so terrified. take a look at the relationships thread over the years and it's filled with guys who are too afraid to ask women out or to make a move on them during a date because they lack confidence. and unsurprisingly, those who do eventually break the cycle and make a move find that... it works!


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#55388
Nyosuht
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There's a lot of nuance in PUA literature that I think most people (both PUAs and people who condemn PUA) either lack the willingness or the ability to carefully examine. The fact that you used negging as an example suggests to me that you haven't really spent much time researching PUA-- like obfuscator said, nobody on this forum has said anything about negging within the last 10 years. That's a term that became popularized with Mystery in like 1998, and by 2008 nobody used it anymore both because it's unethical and because it's ineffective.

It was mentioned in the article you linked earlier.

rnHJQwZ.png
In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. ~Samuel Adams; 1 August, 1776
There are men, in all ages, who mean to exercise power usefully; but who mean to exercise it. They mean to govern well; but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind masters; but they mean to be masters. ~Daniel Webster; 15 March, 1837


#55389
muggiwhplar
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There's a lot of nuance in PUA literature that I think most people (both PUAs and people who condemn PUA) either lack the willingness or the ability to carefully examine. The fact that you used negging as an example suggests to me that you haven't really spent much time researching PUA-- like obfuscator said, nobody on this forum has said anything about negging within the last 10 years. That's a term that became popularized with Mystery in like 1998, and by 2008 nobody used it anymore both because it's unethical and because it's ineffective.

It was mentioned in the article you linked earlier.

 

 

And the author said so himself that he doesn't endorse them. If all you guys got from reading my essays here are "muggi and his sources recommend negging" then this discussion is hopeless because you guys are just cherrypicking


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#55390
RpgGamer
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We have so much discussion today we could have started a whole new thread but if like to toss some words in the ring:

@obfuscator
Rape culture is considerably more complex than I think you're giving credit too. No campaigning against rape won't stop the rapists of today, but changing the way people perceive situations can help prevent the creation of future rapists (ideally)

@major
I grew up in statistically the best educated area of my state. (South Jersey so, the stats dont include the north most counties) and drunk driving wasn't just normal it was practically expected. Perhaps we border some "deep woods" types, and I've seen my share of confederate flags but you can not claim that education has anything to do with the correlation of drunk driving.

Also worth mentioning that DUIs/DWIs are common in my area, but not as common as you'd expect
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#55391
obfuscator
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We have so much discussion today we could have started a whole new thread but if like to toss some words in the ring:

@obfuscator
Rape culture is considerably more complex than I think you're giving credit too. No campaigning against rape won't stop the rapists of today, but changing the way people perceive situations can help prevent the creation of future rapists (ideally)


rape culture is such a vague term that it effectively has no verifiable meaning. I can certainly agree that some things exist people might say constitute rape culture, but a whole bunch more are nonsense.

also *ideally* is the key word, and I'm not sure it's realistic. as long as people have sex drives, there will be rapists

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#55392
muggiwhplar
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We have so much discussion today we could have started a whole new thread but if like to toss some words in the ring:

@obfuscator
Rape culture is considerably more complex than I think you're giving credit too. No campaigning against rape won't stop the rapists of today, but changing the way people perceive situations can help prevent the creation of future rapists (ideally)

@major
I grew up in statistically the best educated area of my state. (South Jersey so, the stats dont include the north most counties) and drunk driving wasn't just normal it was practically expected. Perhaps we border some "deep woods" types, and I've seen my share of confederate flags but you can not claim that education has anything to do with the correlation of drunk driving.

Also worth mentioning that DUIs/DWIs are common in my area, but not as common as you'd expect

 

I wish one of the mods would create a new thread (or two/three) and move all the posts into there... sucks having to dig through a 2000+ page thread to find discussions like these in the future


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#55393
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we dont have any mods

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#55394
Nyosuht
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There's a lot of nuance in PUA literature that I think most people (both PUAs and people who condemn PUA) either lack the willingness or the ability to carefully examine. The fact that you used negging as an example suggests to me that you haven't really spent much time researching PUA-- like obfuscator said, nobody on this forum has said anything about negging within the last 10 years. That's a term that became popularized with Mystery in like 1998, and by 2008 nobody used it anymore both because it's unethical and because it's ineffective.

It was mentioned in the article you linked earlier.

 
And the author said so himself that he doesn't endorse them. If all you guys got from reading my essays here are "muggi and his sources recommend negging" then this discussion is hopeless because you guys are just cherrypicking

I don't even know what negging is. I know that reading what you linked makes me feel like I should shower thoroughly.

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In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. ~Samuel Adams; 1 August, 1776
There are men, in all ages, who mean to exercise power usefully; but who mean to exercise it. They mean to govern well; but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind masters; but they mean to be masters. ~Daniel Webster; 15 March, 1837


#55395
Hedgehog
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Drunk driving is super common everywhere. You might not notice, but go out for a walk at 2 am on a Friday and you'll see

#55396
muggiwhplar
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There's a lot of nuance in PUA literature that I think most people (both PUAs and people who condemn PUA) either lack the willingness or the ability to carefully examine. The fact that you used negging as an example suggests to me that you haven't really spent much time researching PUA-- like obfuscator said, nobody on this forum has said anything about negging within the last 10 years. That's a term that became popularized with Mystery in like 1998, and by 2008 nobody used it anymore both because it's unethical and because it's ineffective.

It was mentioned in the article you linked earlier.

 

 
And the author said so himself that he doesn't endorse them. If all you guys got from reading my essays here are "muggi and his sources recommend negging" then this discussion is hopeless because you guys are just cherrypicking

 

I don't even know what negging is. I know that reading what you linked makes me feel like I should shower thoroughly.

 

 

Why?


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#55397
Bonez899
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we dont have any mods

Friends, TIF'ers, countrymen,

 

LEND ME YOUR EARS

I've come at a time of great discourse in our community, a time when TIF'er fights TIF'er and the today thread is divided. A time where this board, and its small but thriving community of OT seems to be relegated to a slow death forgot and condemned to a time of the past.

 

Yet I offer a cause we can all unite behind, a cause that is not right or wrong, but a cause that all OT'ers, nay the majority of this board can stand behind. RPG for mod.

 

In this lawless time where we may feel abandoned and forgotten, RPG is there. To offer comments of support, sense, or solid logic RPG is there. To not incense the situation, but instead carefully tend the flame of civil discussion RPG is there.

 

TIF'ers, I plead for you to unite behind me and my banner as I cry out to whatever gods remain listening to our board,

 

LET US HAVE A MOD, of the people, for the people, RPG!


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#55398
Nyosuht
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I don't even know what negging is. I know that reading what you linked makes me feel like I should shower thoroughly.

 
Why?

Short list, because I'm on my way to bed and don't want to pull it up again:
Sex is something women allow men to have or that men earn from women.
Sex is all about men, and women are the gatekeepers who can be placated by filling a role and acting in a certain "manly" way that isn't necessarily in their nature.
Any individuality of the particular person sitting across the table from you is irrelevant, because women are all similar enough that they're pretty well interchangeable.

rnHJQwZ.png
In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. ~Samuel Adams; 1 August, 1776
There are men, in all ages, who mean to exercise power usefully; but who mean to exercise it. They mean to govern well; but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind masters; but they mean to be masters. ~Daniel Webster; 15 March, 1837


#55399
muggiwhplar
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I don't even know what negging is. I know that reading what you linked makes me feel like I should shower thoroughly.

 
Why?

 

Short list, because I'm on my way to bed and don't want to pull it up again:
Sex is something women allow men to have or that men earn from women.
Sex is all about men, and women are the gatekeepers who can be placated by filling a role and acting in a certain "manly" way that isn't necessarily in their nature.
Any individuality of the particular person sitting across the table from you is irrelevant, because women are all similar enough that they're pretty well interchangeable.

 

I think you're oversimplifying things and putting words in his/my mouth. This goes back to the nuances I talked about in a previous post today.

 

To concisely address your points:

 

1. Generally, yeah. There's a reason why I'm the one expected to make the first move and lead things along-- it's because I was born as a male. Until a significant number of women insist on assuming roles traditionally reserved for and expected of men, and vice versa, you have to operate under traditional expectations if you want to be in control of your dating life. Is that fair? Not really, but pretending that the world exists how you wish it would exist, rather than how it actually exists usually leads to unhappiness and a lack of success.

 

2. Disagree; both genders both have their own unique roles, expectations, desires, and priorities. Generally speaking, if you act outside of your expected role, your options will be narrowed and your experience will be more challenging. If you behave in a way which suggests you desire something you actually don't, your experience will be more challenging.

 

3. Every woman's different. But most women will react favorably to the three things I listed here, which are emphasized in the blog post you're criticizing. I don't think there's any women out there that would say, "I dislike men who dress well" or "I dislike men who are self-assured and confident" or "I dislike men who take care of their bodies." Or, at the very least, if such women exist, they're in the extreme minority to the point where it's safe to assume that a woman you're on a date with doesn't belong in that category.


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#55400
RpgGamer
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we dont have any mods

I suppose we could toss a sword in a pond and see who turns up?

@Arceus, check your PMs when you get a moment
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