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Understanding is not necessary; basic decency and respect should suffice. You don't need to understand why or how deadnaming and misgendering hurts in order to accept that it does and stop doing it.

I think understanding is definitely a prerequisite in this scenario. In an ideal world, it shouldn't be, but that's not how the real world works in this case. If Tess wanted to be called Malgoroth, the champion of the forgotten realms, would you call her that without question?

 

If you would, that's good for you, but I'd argue that most people would be a bit apprehensive about that. I had an old coworker named Oscar. He didn't mind being called Oscar the Grouch playfully, but he drew an arbitrary line at Oscar Meyer-- he hated being called that for some reason. I respected that, so I'd make sure never to call him Oscar Meyer. But if he went on to say, call me Oscaroth, the champion of the forgotten realms, I'd tell him to go [bleep] himself :lol: But if he told me he was transitioning and wanted me to call him Oscarina, I'd be cool with that.

 

I'd imagine Tess' mom probably doesn't believe that transgenderism is a thing. And she probably can't be bothered to do any research on it because it's propaganda to her and her son (daughter?) is brainwashed/delusional. But if she believed/understood how transgenderism works, I doubt she'd have any qualms about it. My cousin came out as gay a few years ago and his father wasn't pleased. But they both love each other and always have loved each other, so his father quickly came to accept and embrace it. I have a feeling Tess never had the same mutually-loving relationship like my cousin/uncle have, which makes it less of a cooperative "let's figure out how we can work through this together" and more of a competitive "I shouldn't have to change my beliefs/behaviors for you" dynamic.

 

But I don't know either of them IRL so who knows.


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Even within the trans community it took decades for it to become normalized (by outreach and getting the general public to understand) enough for transitioning and adopting a new name to become a common place idea enough to share it.

 

I understand why calling you by your preferred pronouns and using your chosen name is just a basic act of decency and respect but your living in an echo chamber if you can't see why that takes a massive amount of understanding. 

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It's entirely possible they don't really know what makes me uncomfortable yet. I'm bad at setting boundaries, especially with them. And it hasn't really been that long. Maybe things will get better.

 

I've given them resources. Who knows if they've looked at them. I offered to answer their questions, but they haven't asked any yet. Dad sent me a Jordan Peterson video today, so it seems unlikely that they're really internalizing trans positive voices.

 

It's just like. On the one hand, any positive reaction will probably need time to manifest, and I need to give them that time. And if I push them away before then, it's unlikely their reaction will ever be positive. But on the other hand, there's a very real chance my parent's reaction will never be positive. And while they figure out which way they're gonna go, I have to deal with all the invalidation they throw my way.

 

It's hard to be patient with them. And my impatience isn't any more unreasonable than their ignorance.

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My skin is finally getting soft
I'll scrub until the damn thing comes off

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ba

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I'm going to milk Goon's teats

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@ Veiva I went to Georgia Tech, let me know if you have questions about it


TANSTAAFL

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@muggiwhplar

She doesn't want to be known as Malgoroth, the champion of the forgotten realms, and her name doesn't have 13 syllables across 7 words. You're being intentionally dense.

If you told me that was your name, I'd probably do the same thing I do whenever I encounter a name longer than two or three syllables and ask if you have a short form (maybe Malgoroth, or Mal) that's okay to use. Failing that or acceptable nicknames, I'd just not refer to you by name; I forget people's names often enough that it isn't hard to do. I wouldn't insist on calling you Zoey.

In much the same way you didn't need to understand why Oscar wasn't to be called Oscar Meyer in order to understand that you shouldn't call him that, you don't need to understand anything about why someone has taken a new name in order to understand that you shouldn't deadname them.

 

@Ring_World

So, I don't know a whole lot about "the community" or why that's relevant. I grew up in rural Michigan, in a conservative, religious household. I live in rural Michigan now; although I'm neither conservative nor religious, I am surrounded by people who are one or both. Most of my extended family, or at least the most vocal among my extended family, are so far up Trump's ass they can probably see daylight when he speaks. My boss and several coworkers are similar; at least one has unironically come in to work with a MAGA hat. I've seen a lot of complaining about liberals, democrats, and the left, but I haven't heard anyone complain about the other side of the aisle in the 7+ years I've been here.

I might be in an echo chamber, but it's probably not what you were thinking.

 

I've changed my legal first name and have changed what I've commonly gone by a handful of times. My experience is that most people do not require any sort of explanation or understanding beyond "I'm going by [name] now, please don't call me [deadname]." and those who do aren't worth the effort.

 

Have you ever noticed that cis people don't have "preferred" pronouns? Yeah, neither do I.

 

@Tesset

While I cannot accept that they need to understand what you're going through before they can get your name right, it's hard to fault them for doing something they don't know not to do. It seems like "my name is [name] now" obviously implies "...so [deadname] isn't my name and you shouldn't call me that", but some people (apparently without malice) don't seem to catch the last part until it's made explicit.

I started with something like "it's really hard for me to go by [deadname]; please call me [name] instead." and that was enough for most people. A few worked up to "[bleep] this. My name is [name] and I'm out of here." If they want to pull their heads out of their asses, I'll be here... but I can't keep going back for more of the same and hoping this time will be different.

 

Every interaction you have with them involves them choosing which way they'll go. You just need to work out for yourself whether the chance of them improving is worth the chance of them being shitty again; your tolerance for it is going to be different from mine.

Your options aren't (or shouldn't be) limited to subjecting yourself to whatever they feel like serving up or totally breaking things off. It's okay to say "Wow, this is really upsetting and unpleasant, and I'm going to take some time away from this situation to self-soothe."

 

You have way more patience about this than I do. My approach lately has basically been "This is me trying to work out who to keep in my life and who wants to be here. Take it or leave it." Their ignorance sucks, but I can't fix it on my own; if/when they ever feel like doing something about it, I'll be around.

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In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. ~Samuel Adams; 1 August, 1776
There are men, in all ages, who mean to exercise power usefully; but who mean to exercise it. They mean to govern well; but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind masters; but they mean to be masters. ~Daniel Webster; 15 March, 1837

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You absolutely do know 'the community' because your online and talk to other trans people and have terminology that makes sense in your community. Such as deadname. Outside of your community that word literally has no meaning. Its like when some scientologist has some esoteric word for sin that literally is meanless if your not a scientologist. You absolutely do have a community, even if it is based online.

 

 

As far as your geographic community I know how incredibly frustrating it is.

 

My mom is mexican-american and my dad was blue eyed blond white. My dad wasn't in the picture so I was raised by my mother. So me and my sister look white af but were raised with a mexican-american culture and family. Regradless of that other people in my area never saw me as a latino. Me and my sister were always the white kids, and it wasn't just a school thing even people in my family acted like that.

 

So yeah I get it, the experience sucks. I get how having an identity that you hold not be accepted by the community around you can suck.

 

Its how things are, find a way to deal with it. Because your not likely to change peoples perceptions or behavior. 

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@ Veiva I went to Georgia Tech, let me know if you have questions about it

Is it possible for me to transfer while missing some pre-reqs is my only question lol. If that's a yes, I'm confident I'd transfer in. A few of my teachers at my school went to Georgia Tech and they liked it but that was anywhere from 10-40 years ago. (One of them was talking about how the area around Georgia Tech was like "the projects" when he attended but that's no longer a problem obviously).

 

Seriously though, when did you go? What program were you in? How difficult were the courses? If you've been to another school, how do the courses compare at Georgia Tech? Was going to Georgia Tech over a smaller university worth it? What were the networking opportunities like while you attended?

 

I could most definitely get into NC State which would be like 1/10th the cost, but a CS degree from Georgia Tech looks a lot better than a CS degree from NC State...


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i grabulated from georgia tech 14 yearas ago if that hlps

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We have such a diverse and inter-connected family here :')


Quote

 

Quote

Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic.

Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos.

 

PSA: SaqPrets is an Estonian Dude

Steam: NippleBeardTM

Origin: Brand_New_iPwn

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I have some co-workers with CS degrees from GT if you want me to pass some questions along

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If I have "3 lengths of chain", what does that mean to y'all? I want to make sure I'm not using confusing terminology.


My skin is finally getting soft
I'll scrub until the damn thing comes off

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u got 3 balla blingin chains covered in ice and made from pimpin gold to war round yo neck

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u got 3 balla blingin chains covered in ice and made from pimpin gold to war round yo neck

Covered in ice??

My skin is finally getting soft
I'll scrub until the damn thing comes off

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yeh

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If I have "3 lengths of chain", what does that mean to y'all? I want to make sure I'm not using confusing terminology.

That you have three chains. (My mind goes to logging, towing)

rnHJQwZ.png
In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. ~Samuel Adams; 1 August, 1776
There are men, in all ages, who mean to exercise power usefully; but who mean to exercise it. They mean to govern well; but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind masters; but they mean to be masters. ~Daniel Webster; 15 March, 1837

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u guys ever think about how there are other people who post on different parts of this forum that we never interact with

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If I have "3 lengths of chain", what does that mean to y'all? I want to make sure I'm not using confusing terminology.

That you have three chains. (My mind goes to logging, towing)

 

and pimpin

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Goon, you are on fire today my friend.

 

I reached out to the "others" on TIF that are non OT. They weren't interested in inter mingling much. Not that it's so different from us sticking to our sub forum.

 

As for 3 lengths of chain? I'm pictures about 3ft of industrial chains, as mentioned for things like towing. But I like Goon's answer better so...ice ice baby


Quote

 

Quote

Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic.

Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos.

 

PSA: SaqPrets is an Estonian Dude

Steam: NippleBeardTM

Origin: Brand_New_iPwn

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I reached out to the "others" on TIF that are non OT. They weren't interested in inter mingling much. Not that it's so different from us sticking to our sub forum.

 

wow [bleep] them

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Alright, apparently that did not translate to "3 discrete chain ropes" or whatever. That's what I was trying to say, but it didn't mean what I thought.

 

Not that it matters, my players never went where the chains were lol.


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I'll scrub until the damn thing comes off

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You absolutely do know 'the community' because your online and talk to other trans people and have terminology that makes sense in your community. Such as deadname. Outside of your community that word literally has no meaning. Its like when some scientologist has some esoteric word for sin that literally is meanless if your not a scientologist. You absolutely do have a community, even if it is based online.

 

 

As far as your geographic community I know how incredibly frustrating it is.

 

My mom is mexican-american and my dad was blue eyed blond white. My dad wasn't in the picture so I was raised by my mother. So me and my sister look white af but were raised with a mexican-american culture and family. Regradless of that other people in my area never saw me as a latino. Me and my sister were always the white kids, and it wasn't just a school thing even people in my family acted like that.

 

So yeah I get it, the experience sucks. I get how having an identity that you hold not be accepted by the community around you can suck.

 

Its how things are, find a way to deal with it. Because your not likely to change peoples perceptions or behavior.

We may have different understandings of what it means to be part of a community.

I don't think having a doctor explain that their unusual waiting room protocol was designed (in part) to avoid deadnaming patients who haven't updated their documents makes me part of a community.

I don't think seeing objections to deadnaming and misgendering in news articles/comments makes me part of a community.

I don't think trying to find resources for my family or FAQs to help me anticipate questions makes me part of a community, although it certainly is benefitting from their existence.

I don't think looking into online forums or local groups, only to realize that I do not relate to most of the people or issues and leave because I feel so out of place makes me part of a community.

 

That's not community to me; it's incidental contact with people who are ostensibly vaguely like me. The con I went to with ~1500 geeks packed into a hotel for a weekend? That's community. I might not share their exact passions or skillsets, but I can connect with them in ways I don't with most people.

 

But hey, maybe I absolutely do know the [trans] community; that knowledge isn't helping me see why anyone would need a deeper understanding than "my name is X, please don't call me by the old name" in order to not use a former name. It also isn't helping me see why intolerance in decades past should require me to have any patience for it now.

 

When I had short hair and worked outside, some people would try speaking spanish to me and apologize when I explained that I didn't understand. With longer hair, they wanted to know which tribe I was from. I was drinking with one of my neighbors before I moved here, and he started venting about shitty racist people before stopping to look at me and say but you've been there, huh? I don't know wtf they were seeing, but being othered isn't a exactly a new experience. My wife's mother is Korean and her father is white, so she's often seen as an outsider in homogenous groups and has had it worse than I have.

 

I have a way to deal with it, and it's not unique to trans issues. People in my life who aren't worth dealing with find their presence greatly diminished or eliminated. If they care to continue to be a part of my life, they can institute their own change. I might be able to help if that's what they want, but I really don't care to try changing anyone who isn't looking to change; their ideas can die with them.

This is how I am, and anyone who doesn't like it can find a way to deal with that. I've got better things to do with my life.

Alright, apparently that did not translate to "3 discrete chain ropes" or whatever. That's what I was trying to say, but it didn't mean what I thought.

 

Not that it matters, my players never went where the chains were lol.

I think that's how I read it. I have a 20ish-foot tow chain that I'd call a length of chain. If I bought/borrowed another similar setup, possible a different length(maybe a 50-foot chain), I'd have two lengths of chain.
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rnHJQwZ.png
In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. ~Samuel Adams; 1 August, 1776
There are men, in all ages, who mean to exercise power usefully; but who mean to exercise it. They mean to govern well; but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind masters; but they mean to be masters. ~Daniel Webster; 15 March, 1837

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Yeah, just being queer doesn't really make you part of the community. Having significant relationships within wider circles of queer individuals makes you part of the community, but even then, it's easy to be very much on the outskirts of it. Participation is a really important part of being in a community.

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My skin is finally getting soft
I'll scrub until the damn thing comes off

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Most women take their husbands last name (or at least used to in majority) and they go by a new nam. And for generations it's never been a big deal to call someone by that new name. "MRS Smith instead of Ms. JONES"

 

It's pretty simple stuff


Quote

 

Quote

Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic.

Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos.

 

PSA: SaqPrets is an Estonian Dude

Steam: NippleBeardTM

Origin: Brand_New_iPwn

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When I got married, we received so many cards addressed to Mr. & Mrs. [my original surname] (or worse, Mr. and Mrs. [my original first name] [my original surname]) I didn't keep my old surname, and she didn't take it, so neither person existed.


rnHJQwZ.png
In a state of tranquillity, wealth, and luxury, our descendants would forget the arts of war and the noble activity and zeal which made their ancestors invincible. ~Samuel Adams; 1 August, 1776
There are men, in all ages, who mean to exercise power usefully; but who mean to exercise it. They mean to govern well; but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind masters; but they mean to be masters. ~Daniel Webster; 15 March, 1837

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