Is Ice Barrage Overused in PvP?

[TheAncient]

In PvP maging, Ice Barrage is used almost exclusively. Other spells, including the other Ancient spells and modern spells, are almost ignored.

 

 

 

Ancient Spells

 

As Muggi can testify, the other ancient spells are quite powerful. In particular, Shadow Barrage is quite accurate (according to him) and has a devastating special effect - 15% attack reduction. 2 of these spells can demolish a meleer's accuracy (118 -> ~85) and can either delay your opponent 2 turns (for repotting) or nullify his melee capabilities.

 

 

 

Modern Spells

 

The modern God spells all hit the same as ice barrage, have powerful specials, and are significantly cheaper than higher level ancient spells. Claws of guthix reduces defense by 5%, weakening your opponent to melee; Flames of Zamorak may be one of the best Mage vs Mage spells since it reduces your opponent's magic level by 5 (only 99 Magers don't have to worry about getting their Ice Barrage voided due to this special); Saradomin Strike may be a good BH spell since it reduces your opponent's prayer by 1 point every time it hits. These specials shouldn't be something to be ignored, yet they are. Why?

 

A main issue that arises from modern spells is the fact that they don't bind. My suggestion here is that you team with a Barrager; the Barrager binds and you deal the Godspell specials. Alternatively you could use entangle, but I don't know how good / accurate that spell is.

 

However the accuracy of these spells and also if their special effects stack (i.e. 2 guthix spells yield 10% defense deduction) are unknown to me.

 

 

 

The stat reduction spells are powerful support spells. At only 1 soul rune a pop (provided you're using a mud staff) they aren't expensive, yet they deal 10% reduction in melee stats. Having someone go from 118 to 90 defense will definitely make a significance in how often you hit; having someone go from 118 to 90 defense is much more effective than wielding a DFS vs DSq. Their main usefulness would be in supporting a friend engaged in melee fighting.

 

Once you cast the stat reduction spells you can then revert back to God spells, or switch to melee.

 

Keep in mind even though your opponent can repot, they at most carry only 3 doses, while you have stackable runes so you can cast however much you want. Also they must take time to repot. The best counter against this is restore pots / super restores. Super restores get expensive to use very often, and almost no one carries restore pots.

 

Furthermore you could pretty easily use these along with Lunar Spell Swap, if you want to keep your Veng abilities.

 

 

 

The homogeneity of spells scares me. Where's the diversity? A mix of all sorts of spells is probably the best way to go.

[Mike_Ike111]

Ice barrage freezes your opponents, thus giving you a good chance of a KO.

[xSxqPowerx]

Firstly, the god spells require the cape and the correct staff, which makes switching between combat styles difficult, and they are also not as accurate as far as I am aware.

 

 

 

And frankly, as you said mage is rarely used for anything other than ice barrage... but other than freezing people, mage isn't that great PvP. It just doesn't do enough damage. Poison and attack reduction spells could be useful, but balancing that with having to bring extra runes, and having to cast spells that won't freeze a target make it not such an amazing option.

 

 

 

Stat reduction spells - as I said, modern magic is sort of useless in Pvp, and more importantly, BH is single combat... meaning that you can't really team with someone unless it's your target or whatever. So you would have to be wearing good mage gear to hit with reduction spells, and therefore have bad defence mixed with very low damaging power. And everyone uses super restores anyway lol

[jessy87]

Ice barrage freezes your opponents, thus giving you a good chance of a KO.

 

 

 

 

 

well, that was an over simplified answer to an extensive post, not to mention the post was rather.... mundane. The idea that freezing allows for a KO means nothing.

 

 

 

it seems that the basis was magic vs magic at one point then turned to, how to magic vs melee efficiently.

 

 

 

 

 

the idea of, Ice barrage DDS/AGS spec to do a massive mage/melee combo nearly instantly is a great idea. But, its not super effective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TBH, i would like to see the diversity he begins to speak of. But not just in magic. In range and melee. Javelins need an update i think. and Melee need more of a spice to it. Not pvp spice but, situational spice. Like the black mask/salve amulet. Infact, why dont all the classes get these types of updates? Crumble undead is the best specific spell. I would love to see more based around that. Like I suggested adding a new spell, slayer bolt 1 death 4 bloods and does half of your magic level for damage as a max. It would give magic a well needed update especially by making it modern magics

[Latinoking]

It's "overused" because it's the most effected spell for PVP. 20 secs freeze is the major bonus, when people get frozen, adrenaline kicks in and people freak out.

[Atom Smash40]

god spell reduction does stack, like claws takng away 5% each time

 

 

 

but I don't think u got hte reduction rates right

 

 

 

it's x% of whatever they're lvl in that skill is. not x% of their cb lvl reduced

 

 

 

in response:

 

ice barrage is the best spell, and that's y it's so popular. it not only binds for a hell of a long time but deals up to 30 damage. entangle binds for 15, but deals no damage (that I'm aware of, mite do like 3 dmg but nowhere near ice barrage)

[oddyss3us222]

i hate god spells becuz of the no autocast :twisted:

[TheAncient]

god spell reduction does stack, like claws takng away 5% each time

 

 

 

but I don't think u got hte reduction rates right

 

 

 

it's x% of whatever they're lvl in that skill is. not x% of their cb lvl reduced

 

 

 

1 spell = 15% attack deduction = 115 --> 100 attack

 

115 --> 100 attack means you're destroying 15 attack levels

 

15 attack levels = 5 combat levels

 

 

 

Firstly, the god spells require the cape and the correct staff, which makes switching between combat styles difficult, and they are also not as accurate as far as I am aware.

 

I always wear a godcape whenever I'm maging (even if my primary mode of attack is melee and mage is only my sidearm)

 

 

 

And frankly, as you said mage is rarely used for anything other than ice barrage... but other than freezing people, mage isn't that great PvP. It just doesn't do enough damage. Poison and attack reduction spells could be useful, but balancing that with having to bring extra runes, and having to cast spells that won't freeze a target make it not such an amazing option.

 

Shadow/Ice barrages are in the same book. I would use combination runes to counter the inventory space problem.

 

Mage is good because its the most accurate form of attack against melee not because it hits well.

 

 

 

i hate god spells becuz of the no autocast :twisted:

 

Void knight mace autocasts claws of guth

 

 

 

ice barrage is the best spell, and that's y it's so popular. it not only binds for a hell of a long time but deals up to 30 damage. entangle binds for 15, but deals no damage (that I'm aware of, mite do like 3 dmg but nowhere near ice barrage)

 

That's too simplistic.

 

In mage vs mage I believe Flames of Zamorak is the best smell

 

In mage vs melee you should use both ice and shadow

[ajk822]

I'm only 81 mage, and have a void mace so I actually use this in duels. It works quite well, and im pretty sure I'd win many more If i had a better range level so i could hybrid.

[Atom Smash40]

god spells aren't accurate, and their max is only 20 if u don't have 80 Mage. and so wut if void mace can auto claws? claws is the least popular of the 3. sara is the most.

[kemikalkadet]

I think there's quite a few reasons. For one, you only need 3 types of runes. All the other types of ancient take 4 runes meaning 1 lost inventory space. It's also relatively cheap compared to the other spells as they don't use souls. The freezing effect is arguably the most useful of all ancient spells and it also has the highest max hit. I do agree that shadow would be a useful spell if used in conjunction with ice, but again that means sacrificing half your invent to different rune types.

 

 

 

Ice barrage vs. modern mage: again i think invent vs. utility is another problem. To hold your opponent and damage you need to use 2 spells that use 2 completely different rune sets, it also means 2 seperate spells to cast (and these both have to be cast manually) and you also need to be wearing the cape and staff which means an extra click to equip dds/godsword. I also think the lack of TB has caused a decline in the use of modern mage. Back in the old wild teams needed[/] a tber to get kills. Once they'd teleblocked their target they could use the godspells, tangles etc and be backed up by ancients. With no tb, there's no direct need for a modern mage in pvp.. ancients can do the damage easier and more effective. Hopefully when these PvP worlds come out they'll reinstate tb and we'll see a rise in modern mages again.

[Inuashakent]

Modern mage died with teleblock.

[Atom Smash40]

thats a very good analysis....modern mage wasnt used much even back in the day except for tb. even then ancients (mostly ice blitz) were used much more than modern spells.

 

 

 

with new pvp worlds, we can hope to see some clans with lunar mages, or lunar "medics" as i like to call them, assisting their team. lunar spells are great for clans, so dont forget about them.

 

 

 

when i anc, i use ice and shadow and full ahrims. ice to freeze, shadow to lower atk, and ahrims to lower str. i have no need for modern, and kemikalkadet made a good point, where godspells have to be manually casted, and u need to manually cast bind spells with modern. and you need extra runes, wheras ice combines two functions in one. bind and deal damage, with only 3 sets (2 if u use water staff, i dont, its dumb looking, and i like auto cast of anc staff) of runes.

[Smapla]

ice barrage gives the caster a certain degree of control. they can engage their enemy and the enemy can not flee, yet they can flee if things go wrong. this is comforting as most people believe they have the sense to get out before getting into deep trouble.

[Wizz]

It's overused because you can attack a Meeler with them attacking you, unless they rage or mage. You get tgis feeling that your powerful for once. :twisted:

[Myweponsg00d]

I can't think of anyone who uses ice barrage primarily for the damage. It is used to freeze opponents, then you usually switch to melee. As others have said, the speed and impact of any magic damage just isn't enough to warrant using it as a main damage dealer. Look at BGS and AGS. BGS has a special that surely seems like it would be great for PvP: it'll usually take out around 20 defense levels from your opponent. However, AGS wins the PvP battle just because of sheer power in the form of damage per second.

 

 

 

The freeze is important because if the opponent is too far away, you wont be able to damage them at all. Ice barrage takes care of this problem, does it accurately, AND gives you a little damage while you run up to DDS the opponent. If ice barrage didn't freeze (hard to imagine, i know) then the game would be way different as far as magic is concerned..

[Wisp]

In mage vs mage, the best spell to use is blood barrage. Less accurate, but with staking (when it was done) there is usually no food allowed, and that extra 5-7 or so health per hit is good.

[jessy87]

In mage vs mage I believe Flames of Zamorak is the best smell

 

In mage vs melee you should use both ice and shadow

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

best smell, lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's overused because you can attack a Meeler with them attacking you, unless they rage or mage. You get tgis feeling that your powerful for once. :twisted:

 

 

 

 

 

and then, seconds later the ancient starts to get attacked and flees for his/her life. Ive seen it at least 3million times. They would be much better off if they combined the smoke and shadow spells on me. But, in a place like castle wars, death is good sometimes. Regen of spec and stats/familiars HP.

[kemikalkadet]

 

In mage vs mage I believe Flames of Zamorak is the best smell

 

In mage vs melee you should use both ice and shadow

 

 

 

 

 

Myweponsg00d made a good point that i forgot about, and why i think you might be looking at this the wrong way. Mage on it's own has never been good for PvP. It's best used as a backup to either range or melee, either for holds so you can get close to them to get a melee hit in, or to get extra damage and a hold on someone that sticks up a prot prayer. If you take a look around bounty hunter, or old pk vids, or even duel tourney's you'll see that nobody solely uses mage.

 

 

 

Also, Doomsavenger is quite right, in a mage vs. mage duel blood barrage/blitz is the way to go.. it was my staple spell when i mage staked. Barrage was an absolute must if you're staking obstacles so you can trap over corners. For mage vs. melee.. well i'm not sure when that situation would come up in real PvP, if you're a mage attacking a meleer, he's either going to have mage or range himself. PvPing with a single discipline severly limits yourself.

[guywho]

It's "overused" because it's the most effected spell for PVP. 20 secs freeze is the major bonus, when people get frozen, adrenaline kicks in and people freak out.

 

 

 

if you play sports or some other games like fps. you learn to keep controll of your adrenaline to keep you calm.

 

 

 

but i agree 20secs freeze is a big plus

[TheAncient]

 

Also, Doomsavenger is quite right, in a mage vs. mage duel blood barrage/blitz is the way to go.. it was my staple spell when i mage staked. Barrage was an absolute must if you're staking obstacles so you can trap over corners. For mage vs. melee.. well i'm not sure when that situation would come up in real PvP, if you're a mage attacking a meleer, he's either going to have mage or range himself. PvPing with a single discipline severly limits yourself.

 

 

 

Apparently the Zamorak spell's special stacks now. If this is the case then it demolishes everything in Mage vs mage

 

 

 

The point of Guthix is to lower your opponent's defense a certain amount and then switch melee; it's for mage/melee hybrid

 

 

 

A point I think people are missing is the fact that mage is really really accurate against the dominant form of combat, melee. Even if it only hits 30 Max it's doing so at a consistent rate.

 

 

 

I realize barrage's main advantage is that it freezes but another one of my points is that you use modern / shadow in conjunction with other people's ancients (e.g. in Clan Wars). Standalone modern vs melee is pretty weak since it requires Ahrim's for accuracy and Ahrim is like paper as far as defense goes

 

 

 

Also if the point about Guthix special stacking is true, then Guthix/melee hybrid be one of the best combos against melee

 

Even if you are only hitting a max of 30 a round with Guthix, the 5% defense penalty each cast is huge... within 3 casts your opponent has lost up to 15 defense points.

[Hevendor_Guy]

Blitz also has the delay which enables the blitz-dds combo of 3 powerful hits..and barrage is more often used for binding rather than fighting. Mage is still a support skill, whereas melee and range are the damage-dealers. I'd like to see mage put back in the ring as its own combat skill, but that probably won't happen... :?

[Shadow93]

I used to see lots of duelers use blood barrage for big mage stakes, but not as many pk with godspells as there used to be :(

[muggiwhplar]

Everybody's so misinformed about magic :wall:

 

 

 

I'm too busy to contribute to this discussion... I think sseli knows most of what I know by now though

 

 

 

I should make a big topic on the secrets if magic and everything

[muggiwhplar]

In mage vs mage, the best spell to use is blood barrage. Less accurate, but with staking (when it was done) there is usually no food allowed, and that extra 5-7 or so health per hit is good.

 

 

 

Blood spells are terrible in 1v1... they're extremely inaccurate. When staking, the best spells were ice barrage w/ obstacles and shadow barrage/smoke barrage w/o obstacles

 

 

 

Also, Zammy and Guthix's god spells dont stack... Sara's does though