Atom Smasher

[Lenticular_J]

I'm mad. I just discovered that the largest collider ever was halfway finished not a hundred miles from where I am, then lost funding. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider

 

 

 

why are you scared of death?

 

 

 

Are you some eighty-year old at peace with their life or something? We young'uns still have [cabbage] we wanna do.

[Kill_Thomas9]

The chance of it creating a black hole has been estimated to be 1 in 50 million, and even if it did create one it would immediately evaporate through Hawking Radiation, or indeed just be so small that it would never come into contact with anything at all. It would just sit in the vacuum's inside atoms and never be heard from again. Cosmic rays bombard the upper atmosphere with far higher energies than anything the LHC can create. If a small black hole was going to have been created by energetic particle collisions, it would have done by now.

 

 

 

This is a very exciting time for science, for a long time the theory behind the mass mechanism for the standard model (the Higgs field) hasn't been possible to check, so scientists have been flying blind as to whether or not it's correct. Now it's guaranteed to be proved either right or wrong, plus there's the promise of all the extra stuff they might discover, supersymmetry, extra-dimensions, the origins of dark matter... The implications will be huge.

 

 

 

 

 

Dude, I was just going to post that.. lol. Good thing I read the entire thread before posting :P

 

 

 

But yeah, any black holes would instantly dissapate to nothing in roughly 1x10^-7 seconds. The chance of anything any bigger than that is 1:50 billion or so. And chances are then it still wouldn't be able to harm anything/anyone.

[The Observer]

I saw this in my local newspaper and thought of posting it, but forgot to. All I'm saying is that I hope it doesn't kill us.

why?

 

 

 

Maybe I want to live longer than 14-15 years? :P

[andufusthebronze]

 

 

 

Such a cliché, as if throwing money at the third-world is going to solve all its problems.

 

 

 

No, if CERN spent the 4 billion researching into aids, ways to provide more food, etc instead of chucking it all into atom research, I'm fairly sure it could fix some problems.

 

I don't understand how you disagreeing with the amount of money spent on the LHC makes it any less interesting or exciting, and it certainly doesn't make it pointless or a waste of money.

 

 

 

Exactely, one of my friends works at the CERN in Geneva, and I can think of dozens of things that require a lot more money and that are far more of a waste of money. What the CERN does, for example, is provide you with inventions like internet. A large part of internet's developpement was done there, and I'm sure a lot more practical stuff find its origin there.

 

 

 

Yeah yeah and their also working on something called the Grid which'll take the internet to "the next level" or something like that...

 

But it's still just doesn't feel right.

[a b c]

This quite interesting... but kinda interesting if this works what would happen?

 

And to create a black it requires a lot of energy i doubt it gonna happen... or maybe in 2012? :-#

 

I love this stuff i hope it really works!

 

And if not lets hope aliens save us

[Rebdragon]

Yeah yeah and their also working on something called the Grid which'll take the internet to "the next level" or something like that...

 

But it's still just doesn't feel right.

 

If we spent all our time and effort solely on aid we'd still be in the Stone Age right now.

[assassin_696]

No, if CERN spent the 4 billion researching into aids, ways to provide more food, etc instead of chucking it all into atom research, I'm fairly sure it could fix some problems.

 

 

 

Sometimes the great discoveries have been made when we've been researching simply for truth's sake. Besides, who's to say what should take precedence when universities and benefactors decide to allocate money? If people really didn't think this was important, it wouldn't have got the funding. But it did, and that's democracy.

[Zygimantas]

I saw this in my local newspaper and thought of posting it, but forgot to. All I'm saying is that I hope it doesn't kill us.

why?

 

 

 

Maybe I want to live longer than 14-15 years? :P

But, you don't know what happens when you die. My point is I love life but death seems good too, so life or death it doesn't matter to me :

[SirHartlar]

Is the average joe going to be able to view the results in a way we can understand? I'm quite interested to hear what happens.

[Cyco_Reborn]

Even if it did create a load of black holes, they'd probably just take us to another dimension or something like that. I'm fine with it all.

[Jaziek]

I really think this is such a bad idea... People playing God, something is going to go wrong at some time. Nuclear bombs, mustard gas, tanks, space ships, medicine... Don't we already know enough about science? As far I'm concerned this is a total waste of money which should be spent on humankind, not the games of a few scientists.

 

 

 

I know this could be seen as narrow-minded, but really, who is this going to benefit? Sure it is incredibly interesting and such, but what else could we have done with that 4 billion? We need to sort out our own problems beyond trying to unravel the world.

 

 

 

It's not a bad idea, and it's hard to play something that doesn't exist. ;)

 

 

 

No, we don't "know enough about science". The search for truth is one of the noblest ideals, and science, as far as we know, is the best way to pursue truth about our universe.

 

 

 

Who is going to benefit? Who knows? The ramifications in terms of technology for the average person probably won't be felt for a very long time, but even if it never brings anything useful, who cares? Like I said, it will give us a better understanding of the universe, and that knowledge alone is worth the money.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok I know that you're in the right. I've been arguing with my dad about this for a few days and I know I'm in the wrong, and yet I still think it's just a bad idea... Couldn't we have spent 4 billion on something that would benefit the world for certain, rather than hanging hopes on this?

 

 

 

I can certainly see where you're coming from, but in a way, this is for the good of humankind just as much as spending the money on humanitarian or environmental causes would be, just in a very different way.

[Blingkachi50]

Could someone fix/give the whole link? I could really use this for school =P.

 

 

 

And tbh, if we do die, I don't really know what happens in a black hole, but don't you just get sucked/ripped apart? We won't feel anything?

[Zierro]

And tbh, if we do die, I don't really know what happens in a black hole, but don't you just get sucked/ripped apart? We won't feel anything?

 

 

 

Imagine it as the universe's strongest vacuum cleaner that can fit in your hands.

[assassin_696]

Is the average joe going to be able to view the results in a way we can understand? I'm quite interested to hear what happens.

 

 

 

Not the raw results, but the overall results i'm sure will be widely read and reported in a way that will be understood. I'll take a stab at explaining the Higgs boson, what the machine was primarily built to discover.

 

 

 

The Standard Model of particle physics is an extremely accurate and powerful theory, however if you take the equations to their logical conclusion then they say that every particle should be massless. Clearly this isn't the case, so there must be something wrong. To rectify this problem, a Scottish physicist, Peter Higgs proposed that there is a field that permeates the entire universe, and whether or not particles interact with the field determines their mass. For example, the neutron "talks to" the field in a special way that determines its mass, whereas the photon, which is massless, doesn't, and passes through the field. Peter Higgs explained it like a room full of people. If I (a photon) walked into the room, no one would take any notice and the room would remain normal. But if a celebrity (neutron) walked into the room then everyone would crowd round them and their movement would be slowed.

 

 

 

Since every field has a particle associated with it, the Higgs field must have a particle, the Higgs boson, which is what the LHC will be looking for. However the Higgs boson is predicted to be very heavy, and like most other heavy particles, will probably decay very quickly. Therefore the LHC will never actually "see" a Higgs boson, instead the detectors will look for the telltale tracks of two muons which the Higgs decays into. If they repeatedly see these predicted muons tracks in hundreds of repeated experiments then the LHC can claim to have discovered the Higgs boson, and the mechanism for how particles gain mass will be verified. If they don't, it means the theory is wrong and we're missing something really fundamental, and that's quite exciting too.

[Dizzle229]

I'm really torn here.

 

 

 

If this works, the information we could gain would be endless. We could literally learn everything.

 

 

 

On the other hand, this information won't be very useful if we're dead.

[Da_Latios]

why are you scared of death?

 

Next week?! But... There are so many things I want to do! Skydiving... Go to Paris!

 

And I still haven't told HER how I feel!

 

 

 

WHY DID THIS MACHINE HAVE TO EXIST?!?!?!

 

*Latios robs a bank, goes to Paris and gets with the girl of his dreams, only to realise the atom smasher didn't destroy the world. Now the feds are after him. Crap.*

 

I'm still a virgin, and I haven't gone to Paris. So I'm afraid of death.

[The_Who]

This could possibly herald in an entirely new age of scientific discovery, providing the basis for space/time travel and God knows what else. But then again, it probably won't do much of anything and will be a monumental waste of money...

[Oy_the_Great]

Even if it did create a load of black holes, they'd probably just take us to another dimension or something like that. I'm fine with it all.

 

I think you've been watching too many cartoons mate. A black hole is nothing more than a ball of compressed stuff actually. It's not like a wormhole. Just sucks up everything into a tiny little ball with enourmous density. All the usual space between electrons, protons and neutrons is reduced to nothing (electrons and protons then form neutrons, hence the name neutron star, the phase before a black hole) and it goes even further, until no space at all is between all the particles that form atoms. Our world would be like a little marble, smaller than a pea, but with the same gravitational pulling power as it is now, and that's it. So black holes don't teleport us to a new dimension. They just suck, they suck a lot.

 

 

 

No, if CERN spent the 4 billion researching into aids, ways to provide more food, etc instead of chucking it all into atom research, I'm fairly sure it could fix some problems.

 

Sometimes the great discoveries have been made when we've been researching simply for truth's sake. Besides, who's to say what should take precedence when universities and benefactors decide to allocate money? If people really didn't think this was important, it wouldn't have got the funding. But it did, and that's democracy.

 

Yeah, this information is crucial, because with the knowledge gained from it (proof that the Higgs boson exists), a whole lot of research can commence that would never occur if it would be biased on a probability. Try raising millions of euros of funds for investigation based on something that 'is most likely there, but maybe not". It's like mathematical dogmas: if you cannot accept that + is an addition and - a deduction, you won't be able to prove a lot.

[warren211]

I was checking the news on Comcast this morning and found the article on atom smashing. So it is real. But the article doesn't mention a thing about threatening to end the world. I think the Sun exaggerated a bit here :roll: There have been quite a few atom smashers in the past that didn't turn out so disastrous.

 

 

 

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-world-europe/20080907/Big.Bang.Machine/

[dusqi]

The BBC spoke to one of the scientists at Cern, here's what he says about the chances of the end of the world:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Q: Safety Concerns

 

 

 

Cern have been confident in the prediction that there are no major risks associated with the LHC's operation. How robust is this prediction? In particular, how reliant is it upon unsupported theoretical assumptions? (Chris)

 

 

 

Okay, so how do we know this thing won't make planet Earth implode then? (Stephen)

 

 

 

A: Let me answer all of these at once.

 

 

 

The LHC has absolutely no chance of destroying anything bigger than a few protons, let alone the Earth. This is not based on theoretical assumptions.

 

 

 

It is, of course, essential that all scientific research at the frontiers of knowledge, from genetics to particle physics, is subjected to the most rigorous scrutiny to ensure that our voyages into the unknown do not result in unforeseen, perhaps dangerous outcomes.

 

 

 

Cern, and indeed all research establishments, do this routinely and to the satisfaction of their host governments. In the case of the LHC, a report in plain English is available here:

 

 

 

http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/LHC/Safety-en.html

 

 

 

For the record, the LHC collides particles together at energies far below those naturally occurring in many places in the Universe, including the upper atmosphere of our planet every second of every day.

 

 

 

If the LHC can produce micro black holes, for example, then nature is doing it right now by smashing ultra-high energy cosmic ray particles into the Earth directly above our heads with no discernable consequences.

 

 

 

The overwhelmingly most likely explanation for our continued existence in the face of this potentially prolific production of black holes is that they aren't produced at all because there are either no extra dimensions in the Universe, or they aren't set up right for us to see them.

 

 

 

If black holes are being produced, then next on the list of explanations for our continued existence is the broad theoretical consensus that sub-atomic black holes should fizzle back into the Universe very quickly, billionths of a second after they are created in a little flash of particles via a process known as Hawking radiation.

 

 

 

In other words, they evaporate away very quickly indeed. This process, which is perhaps Steven Hawking's greatest contribution to theoretical physics, is on significantly firmer theoretical ground than the extra dimensions theories required to create the little black holes in the first place.

 

 

 

Even if Hawking is wrong, and therefore much of our understanding of modern physics is also wrong, the little black holes would be so tiny that they would rarely come close enough to a particle of matter in the Earth to eat it and grow.

 

 

 

And even if you don't buy any of this, then you can still relax in the knowledge that we have no evidence anywhere in the Universe of a little black hole eating anything - not just Earth but the Sun and planets and every star we can see in the sky, including the immensely dense neutron stars and white dwarfs, remnants of ancient Suns that populate the sky in their millions and which because of their density would make great black hole food.

 

 

 

So - the only theoretical bit is in the proposition that you can make little black holes in the first place. From then on, observation tells us that these things either (a) don't exist - the most likely explanation; or (B) exist, but do not eat neutron stars and are therefore harmless, probably because they evaporate away very quickly indeed!

 

 

 

I am in fact immensely irritated by the conspiracy theorists who spread this nonsense around and try to scare people. This non-story is symptomatic of a larger mistrust in science, particularly in the US, which includes intelligent design amongst other things.

 

 

 

The only serious issue is why so many people who don't have the time or inclination to discover for themselves why this stuff is total crap have to be exposed to the opinions of these half-wits. (BC)

 

 

 

 

In other words, The Sun knows that the story is rubbish, but in the end they'll print anything if they think it will sell newspapers. So if you read The Sun, you're asking to be lied to.

[LaserDude333]

"So.... Who doesn't want to die a virgin? =P~ :pray: :thumbsup: "

[Rebdragon]

"So.... Who doesn't want to die a virgin? =P~ :pray: :thumbsup: "

 

Weak. Comically or otherwise.

[Will H]

The ignorance in that article was stunning. The LHC will not do anything other than give us a greater insight to the workings of the atom, other particles, and the universe in general.

 

 

 

It's going to be awesome.

[sonerohi]

Thing of it this way for all you doomsayers:

 

 

 

On one hand, theres a chance, a small one, that our favorite mascot, Fluffy the Upstate Bulldogs air particle, will get devoured.

 

 

 

On the other foot, there's the chance of discovering Higgens Bosson or what it's called, giving us the potential to create things such as gravity guns, gravity discs, hover craft, and other such super awesome things.

[Will H]

Thing of it this way for all you doomsayers:

 

 

 

On one hand, theres a chance, a small one, that our favorite mascot, Fluffy the Upstate Bulldogs air particle, will get devoured.

 

 

 

On the other foot, there's the chance of discovering Higgens Bosson or what it's called, giving us the potential to create things such as gravity guns, gravity discs, hover craft, and other such super awesome things.

 

Ok, don't go that far yet. Let's discover the God particle first before we get inventing ways to use it.