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Price manipulation: right or wrong?


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:thumbup: +1, especially on the definition part.

 

 

 

What I've been trying to say was that I WAS NOT "manipulating" the prices when I bought/sold X of Y item, because my intention was NOT to manipulate prices, it was to earn money or get some item to train some skill or something.

 

 

 

If clan X decides to manipulate a price, making it go up and you decide to sell the item in question because you can make a profit, what does that tell you?

 

 

 

Oh wait, I didn't know that the cause of the increasing price was caused by manipulators, did I? The fact is, there's no way to know. It could just be plain old supply and demand, caused by a new trend, a newly discovered way of training that requires that item, a new quest that needs the item, etc etc. There's nothing wrong with exploiting supply and demand. That's what investors do. That's why the only people dealt with are the manipulators, and ONLY the manipulators did something illegal. Yes, I did have the intention to earn money, but I didn't manipulate the prices to serve my purpose.

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I will say that while I generally am uncomfortable with real price manipulation on rs by clans, I will and do take advantage of raised prices. Jagex have not made it against the rules but do frown on it......

 

 

 

At last, someone with the balls (debatable by the avatar) to admit it.

 

 

 

Well, of course people take advantage of it. The logic is pretty simple: I want a partyhat/99 construction/lots and lots of gold, but seeing how prices are rising, I will need even more cash for it than I would have needed a few months ago. I see prices rising drastically on item X, let's throw it on the market now because it WILL crash soon, leaving me once more with nothing. It's not just that the prices crash, the items become impossible to sell for a while. You say you take the time to wait? What do you wait for exactly? If you wait out the market and buy items once they've crashed, you're riding the manipulation wave as well.

 

 

 

This is exactly the situation price manipulators create and want to sustain. It's wrong, because it leaves regular players with no other choice than to participate in it while knowing it benefits a few at the cost of many. The only way to escape it is to cut yourself off of the community and DIY all the way - which, with the way 99's have become the norm now, is not much of an option and which is not the point of the game either, seeing how there's the trading option.

 

 

 

I always hated trading. I hated it before G.E. and I still hate it with G.E., but I see it as a necessary harm to gain the funds for certain skills. I loathe the manipulators and I don't change my habits in function of them (i.e. I don't go looking for the current popular items to fill in the clan's need), but when I put in the herbs I farm and have been farming for a long time now, of course I don't sell them when they've just been made to crash by manipulators. And when they're on a high because of manipulators, I'd be a fool to keep them too, because obviously, in a day or a week, I won't be able to sell them at all.

 

 

 

In short: manipulators mess with the laws of supply and demand and the regular players have to somehow deal with that. To use a bit of imagery: there's riding the waves of economy where some surfers (merchanters) have more skill than me, which I accept; and then there's simply surviving the tsunami's. (Ooooh, the Shakespearian Drama of it all.)

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With regard to the legality and morality of price manipulation:

 

 

 

"It is possible never to transgress a single law and still be a bastard"

 

-Hermann Hesse

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:thumbup: +1, especially on the definition part.

 

 

 

What I've been trying to say was that I WAS NOT "manipulating" the prices when I bought/sold X of Y item, because my intention was NOT to manipulate prices, it was to earn money or get some item to train some skill or something.

 

 

 

If clan X decides to manipulate a price, making it go up and you decide to sell the item in question because you can make a profit, what does that tell you?

 

 

 

Oh wait, I didn't know that the cause of the increasing price was caused by manipulators, did I? The fact is, there's no way to know. It could just be plain old supply and demand, caused by a new trend, a newly discovered way of training that requires that item, a new quest that needs the item, etc etc. There's nothing wrong with exploiting supply and demand. That's what investors do. That's why the only people dealt with are the manipulators, and ONLY the manipulators did something illegal. Yes, I did have the intention to earn money, but I didn't manipulate the prices to serve my purpose.

 

 

 

You took 'advantage' of something you profess is wrong. You made profit from it. Don't say price manipulation is wrong on the one hand while your making money in another, regardless of who started it. If you had have been so against price manipulation you wouldn't have taken advantage of it by selling your item(s) when the prices went up. I'd have respected your opinions more if you'd have said 'price manipulation is wrong, but Im guilty of taking advantage of it'.

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I will say that while I generally am uncomfortable with real price manipulation on rs by clans, I will and do take advantage of raised prices. Jagex have not made it against the rules but do frown on it......

 

 

 

At last, someone with the balls (debatable by the avatar) to admit it.

 

 

 

Well, of course people take advantage of it. The logic is pretty simple: I want a partyhat/99 construction/lots and lots of gold, but seeing how prices are rising, I will need even more cash for it than I would have needed a few months ago. I see prices rising drastically on item X, let's throw it on the market now because it WILL crash soon, leaving me once more with nothing. It's not just that the prices crash, the items become impossible to sell for a while. You say you take the time to wait? What do you wait for exactly? If you wait out the market and buy items once they've crashed, you're riding the manipulation wave as well.

 

 

 

This is exactly the situation price manipulators create and want to sustain. It's wrong, because it leaves regular players with no other choice than to participate in it while knowing it benefits a few at the cost of many. The only way to escape it is to cut yourself off of the community and DIY all the way - which, with the way 99's have become the norm now, is not much of an option and which is not the point of the game either, seeing how there's the trading option.

 

 

 

I always hated trading. I hated it before G.E. and I still hate it with G.E., but I see it as a necessary harm to gain the funds for certain skills. I loathe the manipulators and I don't change my habits in function of them (i.e. I don't go looking for the current popular items to fill in the clan's need), but when I put in the herbs I farm and have been farming for a long time now, of course I don't sell them when they've just been made to crash by manipulators. And when they're on a high because of manipulators, I'd be a fool to keep them too, because obviously, in a day or a week, I won't be able to sell them at all.

 

 

 

In short: manipulators mess with the laws of supply and demand and the regular players have to somehow deal with that. To use a bit of imagery: there's riding the waves of economy where some surfers (merchanters) have more skill than me, which I accept; and then there's simply surviving the tsunami's. (Ooooh, the Shakespearian Drama of it all.)

 

 

 

I have no problem with people saying its wrong. I do have a problem with saying its wrong but taking advantage from it then claiming it should be banned. If you read through the post you'll find some very hypocrytical statements.

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I have no problem with people saying its wrong. I do have a problem with saying its wrong but taking advantage from it then claiming it should be banned. If you read through the post you'll find some very hypocrytical statements.

 

I think this is a good challenge, I can see where you are coming from, paricularly in relation to my own sweeping statement.... :roll:

 

I will say that while I generally am uncomfortable with real price manipulation on rs by clans, I will and do take advantage of raised prices.

 

However to clarify; I may have a 'best interest' principle and would applaud game development that halted price manipulation, but until then my 'greed' (?) lol or wish for profit to buy my next batch of seeds etc will outweigh the strength of my concern over price manipulation clans. If Jagex decides that this is against the rules, then my resolve would strengthen and I would do all I could to support that.

 

 

 

A possible analogy for this would be someone who borrows another person's computer software, they know in principle it may be wrong, but because it still profits or benefits them they go ahead and do it. Sometimes we can all appear a little hypocritical :?

 

It appears as though I am somewhat 'sitting on the fence' and maybe I am, but until Jagex truly get off the fence I will continue to make myself comfortable on the said fence (someone get me a cushion? Think I'll be here for a while) ;)

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I will say that while I generally am uncomfortable with real price manipulation on rs by clans, I will and do take advantage of raised prices.

 

 

 

I cannot claim to have not taken advantage of such things. That's why I do not sit here piously claiming it is wrong.

 

 

 

The title of this thread is 'right or wrong'. I call you out. No sitting on the fence. Price manipulation - right or wrong?

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I cannot claim to have not taken advantage of such things. That's why I do not sit here piously claiming it is wrong.

 

 

 

The title of this thread is 'right or wrong'. I call you out. No sitting on the fence. Price manipulation - right or wrong?

 

First of all, if you are going to insist on such finite definitions, may I just raise the point that you should be careful of double negatives in your phrasing, makes for very difficult reading...lol.

 

 

 

OK re: the Jagex post that price manipulation by clans is frowned upon....but not against the rules, therefore in practice it is 'right' and I have no guilt in exploiting the rise and fall in prices when they occur. And now there is no debate :shame:

 

 

 

However, once you bring principle into it, a 'grey' area becomes apparent and the exploitation and manipulation of prices by a few clans that can (and sometimes does) disadvantage so many, appears unfair and essentially wrong....so why do I still do it? Because it benefits me.... Now there is a debate! :thumbsup:

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I cannot claim to have not taken advantage of such things. That's why I do not sit here piously claiming it is wrong.

 

 

 

The title of this thread is 'right or wrong'. I call you out. No sitting on the fence. Price manipulation - right or wrong?

 

First of all, if you are going to insist on such finite definitions, may I just raise the point that you should be careful of double negatives in your phrasing, makes for very difficult reading...lol.

 

 

 

OK re: the Jagex post that price manipulation by clans is frowned upon....but not against the rules, therefore in practice it is 'right' and I have no guilt in exploiting the rise and fall in prices when they occur. And now there is no debate :shame:

 

 

 

However, once you bring principle into it, a 'grey' area becomes apparent and the exploitation and manipulation of prices by a few clans that can (and sometimes does) disadvantage so many, appears unfair and essentially wrong....so why do I still do it? Because it benefits me.... Now there is a debate! :thumbsup:

 

Or we could simply plug the points into the "negative proof" formula:

 

Assuming that Price manipulation is right, it will:

 

1. not break a moral standard set by a third party.

 

2. not hurt one's self in excessive use

 

3. be true to what the person claims to be or make the person "real" <- ignore this second part because it gets into religious debate.

 

4. help the common good

 

 

 

Morals are relative until you introduce a "standard" which is dependent on one's religion. For example, if one truly believed that the Us needed to go to Iraq and they had the power to command the troops, they would be immoral if they did not send those troops in. The same goes for the people against it.

 

 

 

1. If one truly believed that price manipulation is wrong, then doing the manipulation would be immoral. Likewise, believing it to be alright and still manipulating would still be moral.

 

 

 

2. In excessive use, manipulation can be detrimental to the instigator, much how gambling is. You can get a hot streak and make billions. Then you can go down the tube and lose more money than you earned. Price manipulation is a gamble because people are unpredictable to a certain degree.

 

 

 

3. Price manipulation is not anything like capitalism because capitalism runs on a supply and demand system where private owners make their own private decisions. Manipulation is a group of people who make decisions to create artificial supply and demand. Any price manipulator claiming to be a merchanter in runescape or an entrepreneur in real life is a filthy liar and is being immoral. Of course, if they don't claim as such, then they're not.

 

 

 

4. Finally, does price manipulation, contribute, detract, or have no affect on the common good? Since the common good is intangible and hard to describe, you would have to argue what that is before coming to the conclusion if price manipulation is wrong. I believe it detracts because it scams people participating in the pyramid by lying that they will make millions when it's really a can make millions. However, if people are in an actual group in real life and not scamming their subordinates, it comes down to that people are acting more than what the group is (3 people creating the demand of maybe 5, which is unfair). But if everyone manipulated, then everyone would have equal chance. That's where the argument breaks down.

 

 

 

In conclusion, whether or not the price manipulation is right or wrong boils down to how one views the common good.

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:thumbup: +1, especially on the definition part.

 

 

 

What I've been trying to say was that I WAS NOT "manipulating" the prices when I bought/sold X of Y item, because my intention was NOT to manipulate prices, it was to earn money or get some item to train some skill or something.

 

 

 

If clan X decides to manipulate a price, making it go up and you decide to sell the item in question because you can make a profit, what does that tell you?

 

 

 

Oh wait, I didn't know that the cause of the increasing price was caused by manipulators, did I? The fact is, there's no way to know. It could just be plain old supply and demand, caused by a new trend, a newly discovered way of training that requires that item, a new quest that needs the item, etc etc. There's nothing wrong with exploiting supply and demand. That's what investors do. That's why the only people dealt with are the manipulators, and ONLY the manipulators did something illegal. Yes, I did have the intention to earn money, but I didn't manipulate the prices to serve my purpose.

 

 

 

You took 'advantage' of something you profess is wrong. You made profit from it. Don't say price manipulation is wrong on the one hand while your making money in another, regardless of who started it. If you had have been so against price manipulation you wouldn't have taken advantage of it by selling your item(s) when the prices went up. I'd have respected your opinions more if you'd have said 'price manipulation is wrong, but Im guilty of taking advantage of it'.

 

 

 

Can you read?

 

 

 

You just glanced at my post, took your old arguments and threw them at me again.

 

 

 

Read through my post again before you post [cabbage] and make a fool of yourself.

 

 

 

I've said it before - I DID NOT KNOW what was causing the fluctuating prices. I did not manipulate prices and did not INTENTIONALLY take advantage of the manipulators changing the prices.

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Can you read?

 

 

 

You just glanced at my post, took your old arguments and threw them at me again.

 

 

 

Read through my post again before you post [cabbage] and make a fool of yourself.

 

 

 

I've said it before - I DID NOT KNOW what was causing the fluctuating prices. I did not manipulate prices and did not INTENTIONALLY take advantage of the manipulators changing the prices.

 

 

 

Of course I can read. Why do you think I find your posts amusing?

 

 

 

Condering your double act with seesall claiming you guys knew all about price manipulation and how it worked then then you claim you didn't know that the items that you were selling were being manipulated?

 

 

 

Very easy to plead ignorance when someone is asking you to be honest. All I'm asking for it a little honesty in this debate.

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First of all, if you are going to insist on such finite definitions, may I just raise the point that you should be careful of double negatives in your phrasing, makes for very difficult reading...lol.

 

 

 

A double negative equals a positive...or something like that :?

 

 

 

 

OK re: the Jagex post that price manipulation by clans is frowned upon....but not against the rules, therefore in practice it is 'right' and I have no guilt in exploiting the rise and fall in prices when they occur. And now there is no debate :shame:

 

 

 

Not necessarily no debate. After all there are many posts here taking the moral high ground with this issue. Yet when you dig deeper you find very few of them haven't a leg to stand on in claiming it is wrong.

 

 

 

 

However, once you bring principle into it, a 'grey' area becomes apparent and the exploitation and manipulation of prices by a few clans that can (and sometimes does) disadvantage so many, appears unfair and essentially wrong....so why do I still do it? Because it benefits me.... Now there is a debate! :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Principles I can handle if people who lived in glass houses did not throw stones.

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Not necessarily no debate. After all there are many posts here taking the moral high ground with this issue. Yet when you dig deeper you find very few of them haven't a leg to stand on in claiming it is wrong.

 

Yes but my point still stands, it is the ambiguity that creates the debate. I agree that there appears to be very little honesty and self reflection in some of the posts. But in my example where you callenged me to give a direct answer, it became a statement based on the facts and is no longer debatable (in my opinion lol). Unless you are going to argue the morality of the issue (back to grey). :roll:

 

 

 

To say something is wrong and express strong feelings and principles about it, whilst continuing to promote and actively take part is definitely a contradiction of terms...as you say "glass houses".

 

 

 

My challenge to you is do you think price manipulation it is right, or is it wrong? ::'

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Oooo....someone who wants to take the morale issue to a new level! Goody.....*rubs hands in glee* lol

 

 

Morals are relative until you introduce a "standard"

 

This does not have to relate to religion, but in the instance of considering morals, the standard is set by the perception of those who wish their individual status and personality to be defined by their response and behaviour to those standards. In the example of rs price manipulation, those morals differ from rl due to the anonyminity of game play.

 

If one truly believed that price manipulation is wrong, then doing the manipulation would be immoral. Likewise, believing it to be alright and still manipulating would still be moral.

 

This does not take into account human nature, there are also many young (and not so young) players on rs who feel the need to 'belong', their best friend may be part of a price manipulation clan and they feel pressurised into taking an active part. Is it morally wrong when conducted under duress? Don't you think some people do not understand 'morals' and therefore shift their arguments and standpoint to suit their perception of what others want to hear? I think we have had some significant examples of this 'shifting' in this thread. Not everyone understands or can adhere to a moral high ground, even when it is just a game. I think this point you made is too limited.

 

I more or less agree with point 3.

 

Finally, does price manipulation, contribute, detract, or have no affect on the common good?

 

In this example I would have to say that rs is not just an artificial society, but it is also an authoritarian one that is 'parented' by Jagex. Ultimately it has to be....it is a business and a game. Democracy of some sort maybe 'allowed' but please note it is at their discretion and is not a 'right'. Therefore I would argue that your point about 'common good' is irrelevant here, as the 'common good' is defined by Jagex themselves. So the 'good for all' example would fail to be realised as we are back to the first point around perceptions. :)

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Yes but my point still stands, it is the ambiguity that creates the debate. I agree that there appears to be very little honesty and self reflection in some of the posts. But in my example where you callenged me to give a direct answer, it became a statement based on the facts and is no longer debatable (in my opinion lol). Unless you are going to argue the morality of the issue (back to grey). :roll:

 

 

 

 

What is the point of a debate if theres no honesty? And what is the point in players saying its wrong when they will take advantage of what they can? The debate itself even has a flaw in the OP. Megakirby states that he's hacked off because his bandos got manipulated. On the other hand he refers to balls of wool as if it wouldn't matter if that got manipulated. So he's happy as long as its not the items he is interested in. Double standards I say :thumbdown:

 

 

 

To say something is wrong and express strong feelings and principles about it, whilst continuing to promote and actively take part is definitely a contradiction of terms...as you say "glass houses".

 

 

 

My challenge to you is do you think price manipulation it is right, or is it wrong? ::'

 

 

 

Its absolutely right! Reasons are.....

 

1) Its not as yet against the rules

 

2) Most of the manipulators can be left out of pocket (with reference to your pyramid selling scheme) so it works against most of them

 

3) I've taken advantage of it myself. Thanks to manipulators creating false demand I've made some whopping profits. I would expect some of those manipulators to be out of pocket, thus putting their money in my pocket. :thumbsup:

 

4) Players do not have to trade at all in game. If its such an issue they can go get items themselves so can avoid paying anything. Nobody holds a gun to your head and shouts 'buy' or 'sell'. Patience is a virtue.

 

5) Players cannot whinge its wrong if they take some sort of advantage from it. :shame:

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What is the point of a debate if theres no honesty? And what is the point in players saying its wrong when they will take advantage of what they can? The debate itself even has a flaw in the OP. Megakirby states that he's hacked off because his bandos got manipulated. On the other hand he refers to balls of wool as if it wouldn't matter if that got manipulated. So he's happy as long as its not the items he is interested in. Double standards I say :thumbdown:

 

 

This is the point I was trying to make when I spoke about ambiguity, for some they find it difficult to be honest and I think it is an excellent purpose of a debate to make people face up to that. For a number of people who have taken part in this thread, a little thought would go a long way, very few have actually been honest to themselves or the debate and have responded with dramatic denials and continually contradict themselves. :roll:

 

 

 

ts absolutely right! Reasons are.....

 

1) Its not as yet against the rules

 

2) Most of the manipulators can be left out of pocket (with reference to your pyramid selling scheme) so it works against most of them

 

3) I've taken advantage of it myself. Thanks to manipulators creating false demand I've made some whopping profits. I would expect some of those manipulators to be out of pocket, thus putting their money in my pocket. :thumbsup:

 

4) Players do not have to trade at all in game. If its such an issue they can go get items themselves so can avoid paying anything. Nobody holds a gun to your head and shouts 'buy' or 'sell'. Patience is a virtue.

 

5) Players cannot whinge its wrong if they take some sort of advantage from it. :shame:

 

What can I say? I think this is a well reasoned argument, admitedly it doesn't allow for any 'half measures' but if you are looking for absolutes then this is it! lol :thumbup:

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Oooo....someone who wants to take the morale issue to a new level! Goody.....*rubs hands in glee* lol

 

 

Morals are relative until you introduce a "standard"

 

This does not have to relate to religion, but in the instance of considering morals, the standard is set by the perception of those who wish their individual status and personality to be defined by their response and behaviour to those standards. In the example of rs price manipulation, those morals differ from rl due to the anonyminity of game play.

 

Morals have to do with the relationship between us and: ourselves, the world, and others. It's also based upon a postulate that to be true to ourselves and to not hurt ourselves, others, or the world is the most important thing. Anonymity has nothing to do with morality; is it moral to pick up a piece of trash when you believe it is the right thing to do even when no one is looking? I would say so and not picking it up when you believe it to be the right thing would be immoral.

 

 

 

If you want to say that the internet is not "anonymity" and actually a split personality with different cues (which is entirely possible), then you have to grapple with the fact that that other person is still suject to the standard of not hurting other people, the world or themselves.

 

 

 

If one truly believed that price manipulation is wrong, then doing the manipulation would be immoral. Likewise, believing it to be alright and still manipulating would still be moral.

 

This does not take into account human nature, there are also many young (and not so young) players on rs who feel the need to 'belong', their best friend may be part of a price manipulation clan and they feel pressurised into taking an active part. Is it morally wrong when conducted under duress? Don't you think some people do not understand 'morals' and therefore shift their arguments and standpoint to suit their perception of what others want to hear? I think we have had some significant examples of this 'shifting' in this thread. Not everyone understands or can adhere to a moral high ground, even when it is just a game. I think this point you made is too limited.

 

I more or less agree with point 3.

 

What your describing is called a "dilemma". It's actually more complex than what the media tells us. Laws, ethics, and morals are all independent. Laws are rules that are enforced or sanctioned. Ethics are a set of rules that will remove you from the respective group but are not sanctioned. Speeding is not unethical but not against the law. It would be unethical to betray a gang member to the police but certainly not against the law. My argument is basing what's right or wrong upon morals. I do so because it would be unethical to stop smoking when you're in the smoking group whereas it would be moral to stop (thus the dilemma).

 

Yes, it would be unethical to not go along with the group's standards of price manipulation. But if you know or have this faint thought in your head that price manipulation could or would have repercussions, then you're being immoral.

 

You see how ethics and morals can be relative? That's why they can be supplemented with a religion; there's a standard for the people to follow, not just be relative.

 

 

Finally, does price manipulation, contribute, detract, or have no affect on the common good?

 

In this example I would have to say that rs is not just an artificial society, but it is also an authoritarian one that is 'parented' by Jagex. Ultimately it has to be....it is a business and a game. Democracy of some sort maybe 'allowed' but please note it is at their discretion and is not a 'right'. Therefore I would argue that your point about 'common good' is irrelevant here, as the 'common good' is defined by Jagex themselves. So the 'good for all' example would fail to be realised as we are back to the first point around perceptions. :)

 

Jagex sanctions laws as a government would on a country or any people for that matter. You can be unlawful and break rules to get banned or muted. You can also be unethical by selling gold (which also happens to be unlawful). But one thing that you're also leaving out is that even in a totalitarian government, the government does not have complete control over the people, unless they turn them into robots, literal or figurative. The government is only as powerful as the people who are governed in any government. If the peasants in feudal england were abused enough, they would revolt. This is called a coup. Now, we can't (well, we probably shouldn't) have a coup and topple Jagex, but we can stop paying them, another way to "die for one's beliefs". If enough people stop paying because they don't like how Jagex runs things, Jagex will listen (three biggest motivators: fear, money, and honor.) So, although the common good may not be as prevalent as in a democracy (which is almost non-existent in today's world, really), it still exists and has an impact on politics. Like I said before, the common good is intangible. The common good could be martyrdom in extreme cases, or it could simply be pleasing a set fanbase. If Jagex catered to people who were able to afford more expensive clients with software and become a carbon copy of Blizzard, they would be abandoning their previous fanbase. This is immoral. Why?

 

1. Hurts people? yes, because it betrays loyal customers.

 

2. Hurts the world? probably not, but it would give Jagex a reputation

 

3. Hurts themselves? Yes. Jagex would gain the reputation of being wishwashy and of being liars. That would hurt them in the long run.

 

 

 

If for nothing else, you should not lie because when found out, your reputation will decrease and hurt your future chances of other people's believing you. "A lie is the most detestable thing a man can be accused of."

 

 

 

That's just one example, but the common good is not irrelevant but less important.

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Can you read?

 

 

 

You just glanced at my post, took your old arguments and threw them at me again.

 

 

 

Read through my post again before you post [cabbage] and make a fool of yourself.

 

 

 

I've said it before - I DID NOT KNOW what was causing the fluctuating prices. I did not manipulate prices and did not INTENTIONALLY take advantage of the manipulators changing the prices.

 

 

 

Of course I can read. Why do you think I find your posts amusing?

 

 

 

Condering your double act with seesall claiming you guys knew all about price manipulation and how it worked then then you claim you didn't know that the items that you were selling were being manipulated?

 

 

 

Very easy to plead ignorance when someone is asking you to be honest. All I'm asking for it a little honesty in this debate.

 

 

 

I honestly don't know what the [bleep] you mean. What "double act"?

 

 

 

I repeat again - it is IMPOSSIBLE to know whether an item is being manipulated or not unless you check the Grand Exchange database's charts. And who will do that? Also if you don't know a single thing about economics like me, how the hell are you going to tell whether XXX item is being manipulated at all?

 

 

 

I find your posts really amusing. You can't understand my meaning at all, and you're asking for honesty. Try to understand what I'm saying before blatantly dismissing it as rubbish.

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I honestly don't know what the [bleep] you mean. What "double act"?

 

 

 

I repeat again - it is IMPOSSIBLE to know whether an item is being manipulated or not unless you check the Grand Exchange database's charts. And who will do that? Also if you don't know a single thing about economics like me, how the hell are you going to tell whether XXX item is being manipulated at all?

 

 

 

I find your posts really amusing. You can't understand my meaning at all, and you're asking for honesty. Try to understand what I'm saying before blatantly dismissing it as rubbish.

 

 

 

Woah I think I could have charged my Dragonfire Shield off a couple of those flames... But seriously, it's quite easy to tell what's being merched without even using the database - simply look in their cc's!

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*~72,749th to 99 Attack on 9 September 2009~*

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I don't think it's fair at all any more really. Sure, the clans make some money by buying out all of an item, but I don't think it's fair at all to the majority of the playerbase when that item is important to their play-time. Take Snapdragons and Ranarrs for example, they totally ruined good profitable herb farming for a while there. When it ruins a skill or activity, I just don't think it should be allowed. :?

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I honestly don't know what the [bleep] you mean. What "double act"?

 

 

 

I repeat again - it is IMPOSSIBLE to know whether an item is being manipulated or not unless you check the Grand Exchange database's charts. And who will do that? Also if you don't know a single thing about economics like me, how the hell are you going to tell whether XXX item is being manipulated at all?

 

 

 

If you played more instead of being 'semi-retired' you would know this by word of mouth and through personal experience.

 

 

 

 

I find your posts really amusing. You can't understand my meaning at all, and you're asking for honesty. Try to understand what I'm saying before blatantly dismissing it as rubbish.

 

 

 

I can't understand your meaning at all when you're being economical with the truth. Because you've been stressing that its so wrong all along, you're backed into a corner as you now admit you made money from it but 'claim' you didn't know it was being manipulated. hmmmm so the sharp rise in price gave you no clues? :^o

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I honestly don't know what the [bleep] you mean. What "double act"?

 

 

 

I repeat again - it is IMPOSSIBLE to know whether an item is being manipulated or not unless you check the Grand Exchange database's charts. And who will do that? Also if you don't know a single thing about economics like me, how the hell are you going to tell whether XXX item is being manipulated at all?

 

 

 

I find your posts really amusing. You can't understand my meaning at all, and you're asking for honesty. Try to understand what I'm saying before blatantly dismissing it as rubbish.

 

 

 

Woah I think I could have charged my Dragonfire Shield off a couple of those flames... But seriously, it's quite easy to tell what's being merched without even using the database - simply look in their cc's!

 

 

 

Well said.

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I honestly don't know what the [bleep] you mean. What "double act"?

 

 

 

I repeat again - it is IMPOSSIBLE to know whether an item is being manipulated or not unless you check the Grand Exchange database's charts. And who will do that? Also if you don't know a single thing about economics like me, how the hell are you going to tell whether XXX item is being manipulated at all?

 

 

 

I find your posts really amusing. You can't understand my meaning at all, and you're asking for honesty. Try to understand what I'm saying before blatantly dismissing it as rubbish.

 

 

 

Woah I think I could have charged my Dragonfire Shield off a couple of those flames... But seriously, it's quite easy to tell what's being merched without even using the database - simply look in their cc's!

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Only problem is if the cc is set to a rank and you're not part of the clan. Obviously if something that's been steady for years rises sharply like the karil's crossbow, it's most likely manipulation. Unlike most statistics, past events do have a bearing on the future price because human mentality is a very active player in economics (and humans respond to the history of a set of events). Therefore, if something starts behaving unusually in price, it's most likely manipulation. When I mean "unusually", I'm also taking into account the recent updates; if they make a weapon > than the gs, the change will most likely happen because of the update and not someone manipulating the price.

 

 

 

Rule of thumb: check the database on everything you buy on the g.e.; it helps tremendously in planning ahead when you see some [bleep]es in prices.

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I honestly don't know what the [bleep] you mean. What "double act"?

 

 

 

I repeat again - it is IMPOSSIBLE to know whether an item is being manipulated or not unless you check the Grand Exchange database's charts. And who will do that? Also if you don't know a single thing about economics like me, how the hell are you going to tell whether XXX item is being manipulated at all?

 

 

 

If you played more instead of being 'semi-retired' you would know this by word of mouth and through personal experience.

 

 

 

 

I find your posts really amusing. You can't understand my meaning at all, and you're asking for honesty. Try to understand what I'm saying before blatantly dismissing it as rubbish.

 

 

 

I can't understand your meaning at all when you're being economical with the truth. Because you've been stressing that its so wrong all along, you're backed into a corner as you now admit you made money from it but 'claim' you didn't know it was being manipulated. hmmmm so the sharp rise in price gave you no clues? :^o

 

 

 

Look- the sharp rise could have easily been something legitimate like a new item that requires it, etc. Can't you get that? Even if you claim that I could know that by reading the news, the change could still be caused by other causes that are not reported like a newly discovered way of training that requires that item, etc.

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Look- the sharp rise could have easily been something legitimate like a new item that requires it, etc. Can't you get that? Even if you claim that I could know that by reading the news, the change could still be caused by other causes that are not reported like a newly discovered way of training that requires that item, etc.

 

 

 

Considering you claim to know so much about it, you're trying to tell me that you didn't know it was happening? :^o

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