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compfreak847
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Universal experience can be calculated using time taken to obtain via the most efficient; it's not always accurate, but it's simply the only way to allow for debate without referring to specific persons.

 

Did we not just establish there is no universal value for experience. That means no universal value can be added as it does not apply to everyone. A simple rate of how much experience per hour and profit rate per hour is all that is needed. This is the only way to compare rates as a whole on the basis that all experience is valued equally. If the values are not equal for any person, they can assign their own values, is not that difficult to understand.

 

 

 

Again, 600k is a rate that I have seen few others obtain. I've stuck by 400k throughout this thread, and intend to continue to do so. Don't bother telling me I'm simply using it to make slayer look worse; I've stuck with that rate ever since I was comparing a money-lost method (Monkies) to money-profit (Slayer) where the higher the income the worse slayer looked.

 

You also say you get 825k at Aviansies, would it not be possible to get 600k+ then for another person? You also say you gget 1mil an hour at Godwars, would it not be possible for other people? The point I am making is you are not being consistent. You use the rates a person with 99 stats can get, but use a profit rate lower than what a person with 99 stats can get. If they trying to make money, are they going to purposely only get 400k an hour when they are quite capable of getting more? No they are not.

 

 

 

Stop pretending you don't know what I'm trying to say. I'll rephrase it: Training range does not count as combat training without factoring in every other type of combat.

 

Was I not clear with the idiotic argument I posted? It is an exact parallel to yours and means shows that Armoured Zombies does not train combat. So it can't be used in comparison. But i'll rephrase what you have just said; "Training a combat skill does not count as combat training without factoring is every other type of combat". Other types of combat are irrelvant in the point I was making. I said nothing more or less than the fastest "combat" experience per is using chinchompas at Ape Atoll. I said that because the experience you get by doing this goes towards combat skills. It is not that difficult to understand.

 

 

 

I need no more facts; I have already presented mine long ago in this thread, and see no need to repost them for your convenience. I do, however, see your point about me needing to PM you rates - I'll have those shortly, I'm currently verifying rates for some of the monsters that we never agreed upon to ensure my results are as accurate as possible.

 

 

I guess it only goes to show that if it has taken this longso far, it would take others much longer as they do not know exactly where to look. As it happens, you would have to of done this anyway, as how else would you have compared rates?

 

 

 

See above. And no, I would love to see Armored Zombies proven worse - but I'm certainly not going to take your word for it in a "your rates vs. mine" argument.

 

If you wanted to see them proven worse, you need only look at rates that can be gotten whilst doing Slayer. Those rates far exceed what is possible at Armoured Zombies. They only proof you have said will suffice is factual proof (not opinions). You have said that these facts are rates and calculations. So please explain to me how someone can show to you that Slayer is better by providing rates, that you now admit will not be enough for you because they exceed yours?

 

 

 

For that matter, why should anyone take what your rates are as factual?

 

 

 

Except your going to have to do significant, VERY extensive testing at multiple monsters before making a blanket statement. Since I have seen no evidence of those, I'm sticking to my 12% as a very rough rate.

 

Oh, so it is a "rough rate" now. I thought it was a maximum before? As said with the Skeletal Wyverns example, the only way to do it in one trip is with piety due to the added bonuses that are vital. If you use a lower stat enhancing prayer, you will be forced to do 2 trips (maybe 3 if the tasks is like 99, but still i'm not sure) and each kill will be far slower. The bank trip alone will result in the loss of about 1-2k Slayer experience, which is about 5.6-11.1% drop from that part alone. Add in the the far slower kills and yes, it will be slower by greater than 12% without piety.

 

 

 

Wrong place to post this, you just quoted where I was referring to :-s

 

I posted it there because if I hadn't you would have posted to read your replies again. So no, it was not in the wrong place.

 

 

 

I'm referring to your rates posted.

 

I have posted many rates for many different things, you are going to have to be more specific.

 

 

 

The second to last word is supposed to be whining, right? I think it's fairly obvious, but last time I thought that a flame war resulted.

 

"Whinging" -

 

Verb

 

to whinge (third-person singular simple present whinges, present participle whinging or whingeing, simple past and past participle whinged)

 

 

 

1. to complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner

 

 

 

Maybe not the best word, but it was the only one I could think of at the time.

 

 

 

In response: What? I have read that thread many times, we discussed it quite a while ago. I could point to a thread or response claiming to have gotten worse rates then me, but without detailed information on testing methodology, methods, and equipment it's not oging to do a thing to support or injure my argument.

 

If you really had read that thread, then why was this thread created? To prove Slayer is better? That is what the thread on the rsof does. Unless I am mistaken, I don't think i've ever seen a post on that rsof thread ever saying that the rates supplied are impossible or anything along those lines. It is on its 4th thread now so alot of people have seen and replied to it, and those rates still stand. Unless you wanted to accuse him of bad methods and bad testing?

 

 

 

Hmmm...Can't both of you just post an excel sheet of your calculations and exp rates along with your methods that you used for each task (or for the rates of monsters not on a slayer task just your method for what you trained on). Then both of you can go test each others methods and compare your results with another posting of excel sheets. Then all you have to do is move that information to the end of the first post on this thread and this whole issue will be settled.

 

I've already posted an excel sheet detailing my average rates for each skill as well as overall experience and profit. I have given a plethora of information regarding what I use and the method from those is quite obvious.

 

 

 

*sigh* Read the replies

 

 

 

Last time we tried that, a mod had to come with a rather large fire extinguisher to take care of the epic flame war it spawned. I'm PMing rates to those who need them, but I'm not posting them publicly - people who don't have a clue what they are talking about will mindlessly flame methods without understanding the logic behind them, something that is gained if you have to read through all the replies to obtain the rates.

 

Last time we tried posting rates a mod came in and deleted the the flaming that resulted? I don't think so. Why would a flame war result from you posting your results? The only thing that will happen is that we will all see where you are going wrong and hopefully be able to work out why your rate is so low.

 

 

 

This isn't based on difficulty level, it's based on links to relevant material - there isn't a single part of the area I linked too that DOESN'T apply, whereas I'm fairly confident that the are you referred me to contains sections other then your rates.

 

You could always post a link to the page where your rate can be found. You can always indicate what page number (7-36 is not a specific number) they can be found. You could go in more detail and say post number. Not to mention looking through the H&A forum to find what Morningrise333 is suggesting is much easier than finding specific rates throughout this thread (search function).

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Did we not just establish there is no universal value for experience. That means no universal value can be added as it does not apply to everyone. A simple rate of how much experience per hour and profit rate per hour is all that is needed. This is the only way to compare rates as a whole on the basis that all experience is valued equally. If the values are not equal for any person, they can assign their own values, is not that difficult to understand.

 

No, we did not. What we DID say (or at least I did) that experience value may vary, but the most accurate way to standardize it is by controlling all variables but time.

 

 

 

 

You also say you get 825k at Aviansies, would it not be possible to get 600k+ then for another person? You also say you gget 1mil an hour at Godwars, would it not be possible for other people? The point I am making is you are not being consistent. You use the rates a person with 99 stats can get, but use a profit rate lower than what a person with 99 stats can get. If they trying to make money, are they going to purposely only get 400k an hour when they are quite capable of getting more? No they are not.

 

#1: GWD is luck based, and all of the easy monsters have dropped in profit; we are sticking to non-dangerous monsters that can be easily accessed with fairly reliable drops

 

#2: I've only seen a couple of other maxed players that can make more then 450k at Avansies; everyone uses the standard tank with broad bolts outfit.

 

 

 

 

Was I not clear with the idiotic argument I posted? It is an exact parallel to yours and means shows that Armoured Zombies does not train combat. So it can't be used in comparison. But i'll rephrase what you have just said; "Training a combat skill does not count as combat training without factoring is every other type of combat". Other types of combat are irrelvant in the point I was making. I said nothing more or less than the fastest "combat" experience per is using chinchompas at Ape Atoll. I said that because the experience you get by doing this goes towards combat skills. It is not that difficult to understand.

 

Chinchompas train a portion of combat, not all of it Glad you finally see that.

 

 

 

 

I guess it only goes to show that if it has taken this longso far, it would take others much longer as they do not know exactly where to look. As it happens, you would have to of done this anyway, as how else would you have compared rates?

 

I don't remember which section of which page the rates ofr each monster are; I'm simply going through the thread backwards page by page to determine where the final value of each task is. I don't have a lot of time and I'm trying to ensure accuracy, so it's taking quite a bit of time. But yes, I do expect that reading through this whole thread for the first time should take a considerable amount of time.

 

 

 

 

If you wanted to see them proven worse, you need only look at rates that can be gotten whilst doing Slayer. Those rates far exceed what is possible at Armoured Zombies. They only proof you have said will suffice is factual proof (not opinions). You have said that these facts are rates and calculations. So please explain to me how someone can show to you that Slayer is better by providing rates, that you now admit will not be enough for you because they exceed yours?

 

 

 

For that matter, why should anyone take what your rates are as factual?

 

Why should anyone take your rates as factual? It's a "you vs. me" argument now; once we figure out exactly where the differences are, we'll settle it in RS in a few days\however long it takes of side by side slaying.

 

 

 

 

Oh, so it is a "rough rate" now. I thought it was a maximum before? As said with the Skeletal Wyverns example, the only way to do it in one trip is with piety due to the added bonuses that are vital. If you use a lower stat enhancing prayer, you will be forced to do 2 trips (maybe 3 if the tasks is like 99, but still i'm not sure) and each kill will be far slower. The bank trip alone will result in the loss of about 1-2k Slayer experience, which is about 5.6-11.1% drop from that part alone. Add in the the far slower kills and yes, it will be slower by greater than 12% without piety.

 

Rough as in there's no guarantee that XP is split exactly 50\50; it's the best possible result with the given information

 

 

 

 

If you really had read that thread, then why was this thread created? To prove Slayer is better? That is what the thread on the rsof does. Unless I am mistaken, I don't think i've ever seen a post on that rsof thread ever saying that the rates supplied are impossible or anything along those lines. It is on its 4th thread now so alot of people have seen and replied to it, and those rates still stand. Unless you wanted to accuse him of bad methods and bad testing?

 

Again, with nothing resembling details and no way of contacting him, I can't take his rates at face value - given that I'm not seeing them and his numbers are wildly incomplete (All he provides is a very rough slayer\melee XP estimate, using inefficient methods). And no, just because people agree with him doesn't make him right or his information detailed.

 

 

 

 

I've already posted an excel sheet detailing my average rates for each skill as well as overall experience and profit. I have given a plethora of information regarding what I use and the method from those is quite obvious.

 

It most certainly has not been, and information like charms for summoning XP have not been consistent or forthcoming.

 

 

 

 

Last time we tried posting rates a mod came in and deleted the the flaming that resulted? I don't think so. Why would a flame war result from you posting your results? The only thing that will happen is that we will all see where you are going wrong and hopefully be able to work out why your rate is so low.

 

You don't think so? Gee, apparently you missed it. Then again, you weren't around, so it's no big surprise. The flaming resulted from my methods used (blah blah piety is better blah blah use a super set idiot blah blah use a black mask). Odd how you didn't quite manage to see where I was wrong the first time.

 

 

 

 

You could always post a link to the page where your rate can be found. You can always indicate what page number (7-36 is not a specific number) they can be found. You could go in more detail and say post number. Not to mention looking through the H&A forum to find what Morningrise333 is suggesting is much easier than finding specific rates throughout this thread (search function).

 

The rates for tasks are spread out over long series of posts, and, quite literally, through 7 to 36. There's simply that much information; how easy Morning's rates are has nothing to do with that. It's all relevant.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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Can't you see that no one in their right mind would/could/should ever go through 75 pages of:

 

 

 


  •  
    [*:3f4w92zj]Statistics
     
    [*:3f4w92zj]Logical explanations
     
    [*:3f4w92zj]Flame wars and
     
    [*:3f4w92zj]Mindless gibberish

 

 

 

How could you expect anyone to do that? I doubt you would ever do it if it was not your topic and you had arrived at the 60th page of posting.

 

I did it. Why should I bother responding to them if they can't bother reading my responses?

 

 

 

You did what? Went through your entire post? You were able to as you were here when it was made and were able to keep track of it. The ones that want the stats have not been here the entire time.

 

 

 

If you mean that you went and read through 75 pages on someone else thread, and arrived at the 60th page whereabouts, I have to say, you have much to much time on your hands.

You are awesome for putting "~Shadow" in your signature and not at the bottom of your posts

 

~Shadow

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Can't you see that no one in their right mind would/could/should ever go through 75 pages of:

 

 

 


  •  
    [*:2xkc3asy]Statistics
     
    [*:2xkc3asy]Logical explanations
     
    [*:2xkc3asy]Flame wars and
     
    [*:2xkc3asy]Mindless gibberish

 

 

 

How could you expect anyone to do that? I doubt you would ever do it if it was not your topic and you had arrived at the 60th page of posting.

 

I did it. Why should I bother responding to them if they can't bother reading my responses?

 

 

 

You did what? Went through your entire post? You were able to as you were here when it was made and were able to keep track of it. The ones that want the stats have not been here the entire time.

 

 

 

If you mean that you went and read through 75 pages on someone else thread, and arrived at the 60th page whereabouts, I have to say, you have much to much time on your hands.

 

I was indeed referring to this thread. Why would it be any more difficult to do it now rather then a month ago, assuming the length was the same?

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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Because I would have to read it all, taking at least a week of my time (don't get to go on that much). If I was in the same situation as you, I would have been fine, tho I might not have much time on the internet each day, it only so many posts can be made. So it is easy to keep up with, unlike now. I am not THAT dedicated to read the entire thread. PLUS, it is kind of expected that you read most of the responses to your thread.

 

 

 

I just can't understand how you think it is logical for everyone that wants to respond to read your entire thread.

You are awesome for putting "~Shadow" in your signature and not at the bottom of your posts

 

~Shadow

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Because I would have to read it all, taking at least a week of my time (don't get to go on that much). If I was in the same situation as you, I would have been fine, tho I might not have much time on the internet each day, it only so many posts can be made. So it is easy to keep up with, unlike now. I am not THAT dedicated to read the entire thread.

 

So read, say, one page a day.

 

 

 

I just can't understand how you think it is logical for everyone that wants to respond to read your entire thread.

 

I don't. Just those who want to argue my numbers and methods, because the entire thread is ABOUT my numbers and methods (and the various ways to prove them efficient).

 

 

 

PLUS, it is kind of expected that you read most of the responses to your thread.

 

And I expect the same out of those who wish to debate with me regarding numbers.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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I give up, I doubt many people would agree with you of your expectations. How do you think posting your results will = a flame war?

 

 

 

Once you have your facts, and someone has theirs, there is no arguing with the better (method except for variables)

You are awesome for putting "~Shadow" in your signature and not at the bottom of your posts

 

~Shadow

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I give up, I doubt many people would agree with you of your expectations. How do you think posting your results will = a flame war?

 

 

 

Once you have your facts, and someone has theirs, there is no arguing with the better (method except for variables)

 

Except that uninformed idiots who haven't bothered to read the details behind my methods respond with moronic posts filled with flaming and personal opinions and lacking any substance or numerical evidence whatsoever. *ahem*http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=765267&start=1360#p6597080*ahem*

 

 

 

While they do make for humorous reading, they clog up the thread and obscure real posts, so I try to avoid situations like that. It's simple enough: If you want to debate my methods, read up on them first.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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That is what I am asking! All you need to tell us is your detailed methods + the final results. Then no one can flame you. I should not have to pick through the 76 pages of posts to find the few bits that I want to see.

 

 

 

Adding your detailed methods + the final results would mean you get intelligent arguments.... think about it.

You are awesome for putting "~Shadow" in your signature and not at the bottom of your posts

 

~Shadow

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That is what I am asking! All you need to tell us is your detailed methods + the final results. Then no one can flame you. I should not have to pick through the 76 pages of posts to find the few bits that I want to see.

 

 

 

Adding your detailed methods + the final results would mean you get intelligent arguments.... think about it.

 

I gave detailed methods, and what did he do? Flamed about how inefficient it was. Never mind that there was 12 pages of numbers and calculations leading up to the conclusion that he never disputed (or even read). That's ALL my posts in that range were about! To post my methods is simple; to post the logic behind them is hundreds of pages, and I don't see the point in copying and pasting massive hunks of text and calculations from what is essentially 30 pages of debate.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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Hmmm...Can't both of you just post an excel sheet of your calculations and exp rates along with your methods that you used for each task (or for the rates of monsters not on a slayer task just your method for what you trained on). Then both of you can go test each others methods and compare your results with another posting of excel sheets. Then all you have to do is move that information to the end of the first post on this thread and this whole issue will be settled.

 

 

 

Genius!

 

 

 

+1

 

*sigh* Read the replies

 

 

 

Last time we tried that, a mod had to come with a rather large fire extinguisher to take care of the epic flame war it spawned. I'm PMing rates to those who need them, but I'm not posting them publicly - people who don't have a clue what they are talking about will mindlessly flame methods without understanding the logic behind them, something that is gained if you have to read through all the replies to obtain the rates.

 

 

 

PM me the rates please. ::'

Hey Nicrune007 , Whats Your Username?

twss.jpg

99 Ranged on 2/6/07 99 Hit Points on 9/5/08 99 Defense on 26/4/08 99 Attack on 14/2/09 99 Strength on 25/2/09 99 Slayer on 13/9/09\:D/

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Hmmm...Can't both of you just post an excel sheet of your calculations and exp rates along with your methods that you used for each task (or for the rates of monsters not on a slayer task just your method for what you trained on). Then both of you can go test each others methods and compare your results with another posting of excel sheets. Then all you have to do is move that information to the end of the first post on this thread and this whole issue will be settled.

 

 

 

Genius!

 

 

 

+1

 

*sigh* Read the replies

 

 

 

Last time we tried that, a mod had to come with a rather large fire extinguisher to take care of the epic flame war it spawned. I'm PMing rates to those who need them, but I'm not posting them publicly - people who don't have a clue what they are talking about will mindlessly flame methods without understanding the logic behind them, something that is gained if you have to read through all the replies to obtain the rates.

 

 

 

PM me the rates please. ::'

 

Will do. Having a lot of fun assembling them at the moment :-# :lol:

 

I've realized that we never agreed on rates for dust devils, gargoyles, and two or three other tasks so I'm trying to verify my rates before finishing the table. It's taking me longer then I expected with the limited time I have, but I'm trying to hurry. Sorry about the delay :wall:

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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No, we did not. What we DID say (or at least I did) that experience value may vary, but the most accurate way to standardize it is by controlling all variables but time.

 

So if we did not agree on that, does that mean you believe there is a universal value of experience for everyone that ever has, will or does play Runescape? People have differing values of experience, that is true. However, provided they have the same/similar levels and use the same method, they will gain the same/similar average experience rate per hour. The most accurate way to compare methods is to let everbody see the rates and assign their own personal value to it. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

 

 

 

#1: GWD is luck based, and all of the easy monsters have dropped in profit; we are sticking to non-dangerous monsters that can be easily accessed with fairly reliable drops

 

So you admit you were lieing when you average 1mil an hour at Godwars? If you aren't lieing, that means anybody with the same stats will average the same rate. Luck-based is factor, but the point of the average is to account for that. Some may make more per hour, some make less, but the average overall will be a set value. In this case it can be considered to be 1mil an hour, I am not entirely sure of the exact average however.

 

 

 

#2: I've only seen a couple of other maxed players that can make more then 450k at Avansies; everyone uses the standard tank with broad bolts outfit.

 

So you are saying that out of over a million members, only you and "a couple others" are able to make over 450k an hour? If one person can do it, then another person with the same stats and using the same method can also do it. So in this case that means if you can make up to 825k an hour, using your method with same stats means other people can also get it.

 

 

 

Chinchompas train a portion of combat, not all of it Glad you finally see that.

 

Wow, you have got to be kidding me. After all this time you finally agree with me, and you make it out as if I was wrong all along. When have I ever indicated that chinchompas at Ape Atoll give experience in any other skill than Range/Hitpoints? As I have said from the very beginning, and that has not changed, is that doing this will give experience in combat skills. Due to the amount of experience it gives, it is the fastest combat experience in the game. It is not a difficult concept...

 

 

 

I don't remember which section of which page the rates ofr each monster are; I'm simply going through the thread backwards page by page to determine where the final value of each task is. I don't have a lot of time and I'm trying to ensure accuracy, so it's taking quite a bit of time. But yes, I do expect that reading through this whole thread for the first time should take a considerable amount of time.

 

If I am to understand this correctly. You are trying to ensure accuracy by resting them in game? One would think considering how you refer to them in the past few pages that your rates are 100% correct, which would mean there is no need for testing to ensure accuracy.... I mean, unless the rates you supplied where never accurate in the first place.

 

 

 

Why should anyone take your rates as factual? It's a "you vs. me" argument now; once we figure out exactly where the differences are, we'll settle it in RS in a few days\however long it takes of side by side slaying.

 

Every single time I go into posting or arguing about numbers, I always explain how I come to the conclusions I did. I show how I did it and provide information of how it was obtained. If someone disagrees with my rates, they can point out exactly where they believe the error is. If there is indeed an error, I will go back and check it. My rates can be considered factual because no-one has come up with a genuine source of error in my rates. My rates are even backed up by other people gaining equal amounts or exceeding what I get. While it technically is not 100% factual (as nothing ever is), it has a high degree of accuracy.

 

 

 

I am not entirely sure why we would need to go in game and slay side by side either. If you are getting less experience, the only possible outcome is that you are using slower methods than myself (can't be due to levels as yours are higher by a small amount). So any differences can be narrowed down to simply the method being utilised.

 

 

 

Rough as in there's no guarantee that XP is split exactly 50\50; it's the best possible result with the given information

 

If it is incorrect, how can it truly be the best possible result? You do not know how the combat system works, you do not how much influence an increase of that magnitude will result in. You are guessing with nothing as a factual basis.

 

 

 

Again, with nothing resembling details and no way of contacting him, I can't take his rates at face value - given that I'm not seeing them and his numbers are wildly incomplete (All he provides is a very rough slayer\melee XP estimate, using inefficient methods). And no, just because people agree with him doesn't make him right or his information detailed.

 

Nothing resembling details? You have seriously got to be kidding me. With each specific task he details average charm rates, the equipment he uses, the method used to kill them. Before he even goes into that however, he has details on why he uses the equipment he does, the different items he uses, explanations/calculations showing why something is efficient. There is also tables supplying his average Slayer experience rate, his Summoning rate, and approximate banking times. How can that be taken as "nothing resembling details", seriously? There are ways to contact him, so that point is null.

 

 

 

Feel free to explain how his numbers are wildy incomplete? They are not broken down into exact average for each combat skill, but that is not needed. The guide is based on training Slayer. Specific combat rates are not entirely needed as you will get every combat stat to 99 by doing Slayer. Also feel free to explain how his methods are inefficient. A cannon is not inefficient, as much as you would like to believe so. Using his methods, it shows that overall Slayer is more efficient than Armoured Zombies.

 

 

 

It most certainly has not been, and information like charms for summoning XP have not been consistent or forthcoming.

 

I have not given specific averages for every type of charm on each NPC, how is that relevant. The point is I will continue to average the same amount and gain the same experience for each type of charm. This translates into Summoning experience per hour.... which has been given. How is what I have shown inconsistent or not forthcoming?

 

 

 

You don't think so? Gee, apparently you missed it. Then again, you weren't around, so it's no big surprise. The flaming resulted from my methods used (blah blah piety is better blah blah use a super set idiot blah blah use a black mask). Odd how you didn't quite manage to see where I was wrong the first time.

 

That rhetorical question was pointless... Also just because I may or may not have been posting at the time, does not mean I was not reading the replies on the thread. The reason why we can't see where you are wrong, as you have not detailed your methods nor even given average experience and profit rates. The only time you have done so was recently give a rough average for Aberrant Spectres, which was only supplied done so because I asked about what you got.

 

 

 

The rates for tasks are spread out over long series of posts, and, quite literally, through 7 to 36. There's simply that much information; how easy Morning's rates are has nothing to do with that. It's all relevant.

 

I guess that was the point then... You would not look through and find his thread, but you would tell people to find specific rates given randomly over a couple dozen pages? That is odd considering what he proposed you look for was much easier to find. Since everything is relative, if you would not look for something that is easier to find, why would you expect people to look for something that is harder to find.

 

 

 

So read, say, one page a day.

 

Which translates to at the moment 2 and half months. By that time there would be approximately another 30+ pages on top of that if it continues at the current rate. Eventually they would catch up, but to even suggest one page a day is one of the most stupid things you have said so far.

 

 

 

Except that uninformed idiots who haven't bothered to read the details behind my methods respond with moronic posts filled with flaming and personal opinions and lacking any substance or numerical evidence whatsoever. *ahem*http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=765267&start=1360#p6597080*ahem*

 

As far as I am concerned, Morningrise333 is not an uninformed idiot and he has been here for much (if not all) of the thread. So those points of not having read your posts is null. Having read that reply, I wouldn't really call that flaming. There was a series of rhetorical questions, of which the purpose is to get his point across they are bad methods. If anything he was simply astounded that after all this time, after you going on and on about being efficient, that you are being that terrible efficient with Slayer.

 

 

 

I gave detailed methods, and what did he do? Flamed about how inefficient it was. Never mind that there was 12 pages of numbers and calculations leading up to the conclusion that he never disputed (or even read).

 

There was not 12 pages of numbers and calculations of how you come to use a Unicorn with Karils for Aberrant Spectres. So don't come up bs excuses.

 

 

 

To post my methods is simple; to post the logic behind them is hundreds of pages, and I don't see the point in copying and pasting massive hunks of text and calculations from what is essentially 30 pages of debate.

 

The logic behind specific methods will not take hundreds of pages to explain (considering as far as I know the amount you can post in one page is limitless :lol: ). It comes down to whether that method is more efficient than others. From that it comes down to how you calculated it to be more efficient. There is not hundreds of pages that need to be given to explain such a simple method.

 

 

 

I've realized that we never agreed on rates for dust devils, gargoyles, and two or three other tasks so I'm trying to verify my rates before finishing the table. It's taking me longer then I expected with the limited time I have, but I'm trying to hurry. Sorry about the delay :wall:

 

Well since I have not seen you numbers I have not agreed with any of them. Much less for Dust Devils. I posted they were over 100k experience per hour (to melee), and you just flat out said it was impossible and never posted your specific rates.

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I've realized that we never agreed on rates for dust devils, gargoyles, and two or three other tasks so I'm trying to verify my rates before finishing the table. It's taking me longer then I expected with the limited time I have, but I'm trying to hurry. Sorry about the delay :wall:

 

Well since I have not seen you numbers I have not agreed with any of them. Much less for Dust Devils. I posted they were over 100k experience per hour (to melee), and you just flat out said it was impossible and never posted your specific rates.

 

Not going to take part in this discussion, but I'd like to add that 100k xp/hour at dusties seems pretty possible. I myself get 83k xp/hour with 10% str pray and 86/86/88 stats.

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So if we did not agree on that, does that mean you believe there is a universal value of experience for everyone that ever has, will or does play Runescape? People have differing values of experience, that is true. However, provided they have the same/similar levels and use the same method, they will gain the same/similar average experience rate per hour. The most accurate way to compare methods is to let everbody see the rates and assign their own personal value to it. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

 

Because it is impossible. We can't have every single person who's ever played RS come in and tell us how much they value XP, then average it to get a number. It can ONLY be calculated using time.

 

 

 

 

So you admit you were lieing when you average 1mil an hour at Godwars? If you aren't lieing, that means anybody with the same stats will average the same rate. Luck-based is factor, but the point of the average is to account for that. Some may make more per hour, some make less, but the average overall will be a set value. In this case it can be considered to be 1mil an hour, I am not entirely sure of the exact average however.

 

No, I "admit" that bandos hilts were 43m when this post was typed and are currently hovering at approx. 18m. Stop acting like a flaming idiot.

 

 

 

 

So you are saying that out of over a million members, only you and "a couple others" are able to make over 450k an hour? If one person can do it, then another person with the same stats and using the same method can also do it. So in this case that means if you can make up to 825k an hour, using your method with same stats means other people can also get it.

 

No they can't - if even 1/3rd the people at Avansies used my methods, everyones profit rates would drop BELOW 450k\h. That alone proves that few can do it - aside from the fact that in over 60 hours there I've never seen anyone else attempting anything resembling my methods.

 

 

 

 

Wow, you have got to be kidding me. After all this time you finally agree with me, and you make it out as if I was wrong all along. When have I ever indicated that chinchompas at Ape Atoll give experience in any other skill than Range/Hitpoints? As I have said from the very beginning, and that has not changed, is that doing this will give experience in combat skills. Due to the amount of experience it gives, it is the fastest combat experience in the game. It is not a difficult concept...

 

But it doesn't train combat, as combat encompasses melee, range, and magic.

 

 

 

 

If I am to understand this correctly. You are trying to ensure accuracy by resting them in game? One would think considering how you refer to them in the past few pages that your rates are 100% correct, which would mean there is no need for testing to ensure accuracy.... I mean, unless the rates you supplied where never accurate in the first place.

 

Could you point out where I said that? I'm really curious. Perhaps you have a rebuttal via your admittedly "made up" rates? I was trying to accommodate for them to pacify you, as I had no idea you were simply throwing out random numbers.

 

 

 

 

Every single time I go into posting or arguing about numbers, I always explain how I come to the conclusions I did. I show how I did it and provide information of how it was obtained. If someone disagrees with my rates, they can point out exactly where they believe the error is. If there is indeed an error, I will go back and check it. My rates can be considered factual because no-one has come up with a genuine source of error in my rates. My rates are even backed up by other people gaining equal amounts or exceeding what I get. While it technically is not 100% factual (as nothing ever is), it has a high degree of accuracy.

 

 

 

I am not entirely sure why we would need to go in game and slay side by side either. If you are getting less experience, the only possible outcome is that you are using slower methods than myself (can't be due to levels as yours are higher by a small amount). So any differences can be narrowed down to simply the method being utilised.

 

Again, you most certainly do not. As illustrated by the value of experience, you continue to completely ignore many variables that I've pointed out for pages in favor of your own biased ideas.

 

 

 

 

If it is incorrect, how can it truly be the best possible result? You do not know how the combat system works, you do not how much influence an increase of that magnitude will result in. You are guessing with nothing as a factual basis.

 

Because there is no other evidence with which to work. Previous testing of the combat system have indicated these calculations to be fairly accurate; in lack of any other evidence, they present a compelling argument.

 

 

 

 

Nothing resembling details? You have seriously got to be kidding me. With each specific task he details average charm rates, the equipment he uses, the method used to kill them. Before he even goes into that however, he has details on why he uses the equipment he does, the different items he uses, explanations/calculations showing why something is efficient. There is also tables supplying his average Slayer experience rate, his Summoning rate, and approximate banking times. How can that be taken as "nothing resembling details", seriously? There are ways to contact him, so that point is null.

 

 

 

Feel free to explain how his numbers are wildy incomplete? They are not broken down into exact average for each combat skill, but that is not needed. The guide is based on training Slayer. Specific combat rates are not entirely needed as you will get every combat stat to 99 by doing Slayer. Also feel free to explain how his methods are inefficient. A cannon is not inefficient, as much as you would like to believe so. Using his methods, it shows that overall Slayer is more efficient than Armoured Zombies.

 

Again, he does NOT provide details. Not only are many of the methods he discusses completely separate from the ones we are using, his cost and charm estimates have a giant margin of error - his summoning XP rates frequently range from 30-40% low or high. Not very helpful in a mathematical comparison.

 

 

 

 

I have not given specific averages for every type of charm on each NPC, how is that relevant. The point is I will continue to average the same amount and gain the same experience for each type of charm. This translates into Summoning experience per hour.... which has been given. How is what I have shown inconsistent or not forthcoming?

 

Because summoning XP varies as levels are gained, which must be accounted for. You can't use, say, a level 90 summon for all of your crimsons starting at level 1.

 

 

 

 

That rhetorical question was pointless... Also just because I may or may not have been posting at the time, does not mean I was not reading the replies on the thread. The reason why we can't see where you are wrong, as you have not detailed your methods nor even given average experience and profit rates. The only time you have done so was recently give a rough average for Aberrant Spectres, which was only supplied done so because I asked about what you got.

 

But that has nothing to do with the topic of moderators and flame wars - those were over a single task, not complete rates. The complete rates were earlier, and therefore have nothing whatsoever with what you are discussing.

 

 

 

 

As far as I am concerned, Morningrise333 is not an uninformed idiot and he has been here for much (if not all) of the thread. So those points of not having read your posts is null. Having read that reply, I wouldn't really call that flaming. There was a series of rhetorical questions, of which the purpose is to get his point across they are bad methods. If anything he was simply astounded that after all this time, after you going on and on about being efficient, that you are being that terrible efficient with Slayer.

 

Then explain why the flaming began over "LULZ I DO TASKS IN 20 MINTUES AND W|O CANNON ITS 2 HOURS), even though I clearly stated my rates of 47 minutes along with numbers proving cannon inefficient? What with how he completely ignores any calculations I've performed, it's quite obvious he skimmed through much of the thread.

 

 

 

 

There was not 12 pages of numbers and calculations of how you come to use a Unicorn with Karils for Aberrant Spectres. So don't come up bs excuses.

 

No, it was for proving cannon inefficient, indirectly leading to unicornn.

 

 

 

 

The logic behind specific methods will not take hundreds of pages to explain (considering as far as I know the amount you can post in one page is limitless :lol: ). It comes down to whether that method is more efficient than others. From that it comes down to how you calculated it to be more efficient. There is not hundreds of pages that need to be given to explain such a simple method.

 

Hundreds of pages of text. And yes, there's a limit on forum pages, but it's immense - I've only hit it once.

 

 

 

Well since I have not seen you numbers I have not agreed with any of them. Much less for Dust Devils. I posted they were over 100k experience per hour (to melee), and you just flat out said it was impossible and never posted your specific rates.

 

Not going to take part in this discussion, but I'd like to add that 100k xp/hour at dusties seems pretty possible. I myself get 83k xp/hour with 10% str pray and 86/86/88 stats.

 

Ydraisel claimed he was getting 112k melee XP with +10% strength and 95 melee stats. I somehow doubt that his 9 higher combat stats would result in a 30k XP boost.

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Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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PM sent to dfchester and ydrasil with task rates. If anyone else would like a copy, get in touch with me. Understand that methods will NOT be discussed. I've done enough spoon feeding as it is; if you wish to obtain further details, read my thread.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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Again, he does NOT provide details. Not only are many of the methods he discusses completely separate from the ones we are using, his cost and charm estimates have a giant margin of error - his summoning XP rates frequently range from 30-40% low or high. Not very helpful in a mathematical comparison.

 

 

 

He explains why such a large range is used -- it's not a margin of error, it's an attempt to account for low and high summoning levels.

 

 

 

Charm drop rates are not guaranteed to be completely accurate but should generally be within a few percent of the actual figure. The estimated ratio of summoning xp to slayer xp assumes you make spirit terrorbirds, spirit graahks, fruit bats, and granite lobsters for the smaller number (low summoning), and barker toads, unicorn stallions, pack yaks, and geyser titans for the higher number (high summoning).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would also be interested in the task rates.

If you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.

 

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He explains why such a large range is used -- it's not a margin of error, it's an attempt to account for low and high summoning levels.

 

But since we are referring to almost-solely Slayer training via summoning, we can accurately establish what level and pouches will be used.

 

 

 

 

I would also be interested in the task rates.

 

You agree not to post them or discuss methods without referring to my prior calculations?

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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Because it is impossible. We can't have every single person who's ever played RS come in and tell us how much they value XP, then average it to get a number. It can ONLY be calculated using time.

 

Where did I suggest that everyone should tell us how much they value experience? The most accurate way is to start off on the basis that all experience is valued equally. If someone else does not value their experience that way, they can assign their own values. That does not mean everyone needs to come on here and post their results.

 

 

 

Why is that so difficult?

 

 

 

No, I "admit" that bandos hilts were 43m when this post was typed and are currently hovering at approx. 18m. Stop acting like a flaming idiot.

 

How was I flaming or being an idiot? It was nothing but a logical based argument. If it is not 1mil per hour now, what is the average you can get there? If it is over 400k my point still stands.

 

 

 

No they can't - if even 1/3rd the people at Avansies used my methods, everyones profit rates would drop BELOW 450k\h. That alone proves that few can do it - aside from the fact that in over 60 hours there I've never seen anyone else attempting anything resembling my methods.

 

That is an opinion and not fact. So how can that be proof? The point is if one person can do it, other people can also do it. That means at the moment other players with maxed stats are quite capable of getting your rate of 825k per hour.

 

 

 

But it doesn't train combat, as combat encompasses melee, range, and magic.

 

Range is a combat skill. Hitpoints is a combat skill. By training them you are training combat. Combat includes all of those yes, but that does not mean all of them have to be trained for it to be considered combat training. Again, why is that so difficult for you to understand?

 

 

 

Could you point out where I said that? I'm really curious. Perhaps you have a rebuttal via your admittedly "made up" rates? I was trying to accommodate for them to pacify you, as I had no idea you were simply throwing out random numbers.

 

I believe you said something like you were testing them in game to ensure accuracy. Something along those lines. What does this have to do with the rate I proposed earlier in the thread? If you had even bothered to read my post or used any sort of logic, you would have seen from the get go, that they were assumptions and not my rates. It is not my fault you were incapable of understanding that, because throughout the entire thread, I have never indicated otherwise. I have always stuck to saying that I believed my rate to be higher than that, and it is.

 

 

 

Again, you most certainly do not. As illustrated by the value of experience, you continue to completely ignore many variables that I've pointed out for pages in favor of your own biased ideas.

 

I don't huh? Look above to where I have been mentioning the value of experience. Have I not been consistently and constantly explaining it to you? Hence it is agreeing with what you just quoted, and you saying "Again, you most certainly do not" is nothing but a pathetic attempt to say otherwise. If I am biased to Slayer for any reason it is because I have already shown Slayer is more efficient than Armoured Zombies. It is only a matter of showing you that. Your bias for Armoued Zombies comes from you unwilling to be wrong and adamant that you are correct, when the evidence says otherwise.

 

 

 

Because there is no other evidence with which to work. Previous testing of the combat system have indicated these calculations to be fairly accurate; in lack of any other evidence, they present a compelling argument.

 

So because there is no evidence for any way to work it out, that must mean you conclusion, which was also based on no evidence must be correct? You have provided no evidence to back-up your claims. That means everything you just said was opinion. And according to you and using your logic, that just isn't going to cut it. In other words, what you have just said was irrelevant (based on your logic that opinions with no evidence are irrelevant).

 

 

 

Again, he does NOT provide details. Not only are many of the methods he discusses completely separate from the ones we are using, his cost and charm estimates have a giant margin of error - his summoning XP rates frequently range from 30-40% low or high. Not very helpful in a mathematical comparison.

 

Do you seriously know what a detail is? He provides much more detail in every aspect of Slayer than you, me or anyone else I know of. Explain to us then, what details is he supposedly missing? His methods are not seperate from what "we" have been using, maybe from what "you" use. I do not follow every method exactly, but most of my methods are based on those presented in his guide. You actually think the Summoning rates very by30-40%? Upon what basis did you come to the conclusion? It cannot be factual as you have no evidence onec again to support your claim. There is alot of details, they are all presented in an orderly fashion and are not difficult to find. However I will say again so you don't miss it. Explain to us then, what details is he supposedly missing?

 

 

 

Because summoning XP varies as levels are gained, which must be accounted for. You can't use, say, a level 90 summon for all of your crimsons starting at level 1.

 

From the get go when I supplied these rates, I explained how I calculated the experience for each charm. It was using the average from my current level up till 99. I also said that my specific rate would not apply to everyone. You are only showing you do not fully read what I have posted. The point is consistency. Someone with my levels will generally have a higher Summoning level than low. As such the rate that I get is accurate based on my levels. Since we are supposed to be comparing max experience rates, my rates are actually lower than the max so I could change to them to be higher to be consistent if you like?

 

 

 

But that has nothing to do with the topic of moderators and flame wars - those were over a single task, not complete rates. The complete rates were earlier, and therefore have nothing whatsoever with what you are discussing.

 

Then that means it has nothing whatsoever to do with what you posted. The link in your thread directed me straight to that quote. I was responding to that post in which you mentioned that link, not about the moderators and supposed flame war. Not my fault you were incapable of telling the difference between them (especially considering the post of yours I quoted and responded to).

 

 

 

Then explain why the flaming began over "LULZ I DO TASKS IN 20 MINTUES AND W|O CANNON ITS 2 HOURS), even though I clearly stated my rates of 47 minutes along with numbers proving cannon inefficient? What with how he completely ignores any calculations I've performed, it's quite obvious he skimmed through much of the thread.

 

You are also trying to bias other peoples opinions of Morningrise333 to suit you. What you posted in quotation marks was not said, and it only shows you are trying to make him like worse than he is. "It takes me 20 minutes to do a spectres task. How long does it take you, an hour? Two? Read Zarfot's guide. I think you'd really benefit." You will also find you had never mentioned it took 47 minutes to complete the task. You mentioned 45 minutes.... on the next page of the thread. Was he supposed to be psyhic and know that you were going to post that number on the next page?

 

 

 

Nor was the cannon ever proven inefficient. I know that as a fact and the replies earlier in this thread support that.

 

 

 

No, it was for proving cannon inefficient, indirectly leading to unicornn.

 

And yet a cannon was never proven inefficient.

 

 

 

Hundreds of pages of text. And yes, there's a limit on forum pages, but it's immense - I've only hit it once.

 

Nor would it be hundreds of pages of text in a word document. You are just looking for any excuse to get out of saying them.

 

 

 

Ydraisel claimed he was getting 112k melee XP with +10% strength and 95 melee stats. I somehow doubt that his 9 higher combat stats would result in a 30k XP boost.

 

There is a mistake there, you used the word "claim". The word claim infers I had no evidence to back up that rate... since I did, it was not a claim. There is evidence of other people attaining and surpassing this rate, I even showed a short vid showing it.

 

 

 

PM sent to dfchester and ydrasil with task rates. If anyone else would like a copy, get in touch with me. Understand that methods will NOT be discussed. I've done enough spoon feeding as it is; if you wish to obtain further details, read my thread.

 

It took you 4-5 days for that? Only 13 rates were given. Which you have admitted that 2 were not even present in the thead. That leads to only 11 having been supposedly posted. So you know what I did? Since I have the entire thread in a word document, I hit "ctrl+f" and typed in each of those numbers. Not one of them was found, meaning those rates were never given. Well, fair enough, maybe you gave the rates to the nearest 1,000 experience. So I looked for those too.

 

 

 

For the very first one, rounding off to the nearest thousand, I got that rate for that NPC. Sadly, that was a rate I supplied, which came directly from Zarfot's guide. It was never found again to be in reference to that NPC. The 6th NPC I found down the list I found a number for that to nearest thousand. It however was found in the exact same post as the previous one, a rate that I supplied directly from Zarfot's guide. After those two, not once did I find one of those numbers with that NPC. I guess all you did was show that those rates were never posted in the thread. Especially considering to get an average rate to 5 significant figures (6 for one task), and since those numbers weren't in the thread, you had to test every single one of them to get those rates.

 

 

 

So I guess now we have undeniable proof that you have never posted your rates in the thread. Anything indicating as such was a lie. Not to mention there was only 11 (13 but two you said were not agreed upon) different NPCs supplied, that would infer that if these numbers came from the thread, that only 11 had been given. This furthur proves that you have never posted all of your averages for each task. Hell, you only gave melee xp/h rates, no Slayer, no summoning, no profit rates.

 

 

 

See, didn't even mention the specific rate you gave or to which NPC each were related. Didn't need to show you have lieing all along.

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Where did I suggest that everyone should tell us how much they value experience? The most accurate way is to start off on the basis that all experience is valued equally. If someone else does not value their experience that way, they can assign their own values. That does not mean everyone needs to come on here and post their results.

 

 

 

Why is that so difficult?

 

Because all experience value is NOT the same. Do you view herblore cape just as hard to obtain as, say, cooking cape? No, the herblore cape takes longer to obtain and earn the money for, and therefore the value of the XP is greater.

 

 

 

 

How was I flaming or being an idiot? It was nothing but a logical based argument. If it is not 1mil per hour now, what is the average you can get there? If it is over 400k my point still stands.

 

Nowdays the average is roughly half that, but it's luck based and more competitive. Few people have time to drop everything in RL and go bandos for 4-5 hours.

 

 

 

 

That is an opinion and not fact. So how can that be proof? The point is if one person can do it, other people can also do it. That means at the moment other players with maxed stats are quite capable of getting your rate of 825k per hour.

 

No, because if they were no one would be getting 825k per hour.

 

 

 

 

Range is a combat skill. Hitpoints is a combat skill. By training them you are training combat. Combat includes all of those yes, but that does not mean all of them have to be trained for it to be considered combat training. Again, why is that so difficult for you to understand?

 

No, you are training a portion of combat. There's a very large difference.

 

 

 

 

I believe you said something like you were testing them in game to ensure accuracy. Something along those lines. What does this have to do with the rate I proposed earlier in the thread? If you had even bothered to read my post or used any sort of logic, you would have seen from the get go, that they were assumptions and not my rates. It is not my fault you were incapable of understanding that, because throughout the entire thread, I have never indicated otherwise. I have always stuck to saying that I believed my rate to be higher than that, and it is.

 

No, I would not have. You stated your rates as if they were what you obtained, not what you "assumed" you could obtain.

 

 

 

 

I don't huh? Look above to where I have been mentioning the value of experience. Have I not been consistently and constantly explaining it to you? Hence it is agreeing with what you just quoted, and you saying "Again, you most certainly do not" is nothing but a pathetic attempt to say otherwise. If I am biased to Slayer for any reason it is because I have already shown Slayer is more efficient than Armoured Zombies. It is only a matter of showing you that. Your bias for Armoued Zombies comes from you unwilling to be wrong and adamant that you are correct, when the evidence says otherwise.

 

And I am just as adamant that you are wrong and are unwilling to admit it despite considerable evidence to the contrary. That's frequently known as a "debate". Further points to this nature will be ignored, as it's nothing but spam and is contributing zero to deciding with is superior.

 

 

 

 

So because there is no evidence for any way to work it out, that must mean you conclusion, which was also based on no evidence must be correct? You have provided no evidence to back-up your claims. That means everything you just said was opinion. And according to you and using your logic, that just isn't going to cut it. In other words, what you have just said was irrelevant (based on your logic that opinions with no evidence are irrelevant).

 

As stated before, my evidence is in the form of backing up the 50\50 split; if there were stronger evidence to the contrary it could be overturned, but as there is not it remains the most accurate conclusion at the moment.

 

 

 

 

Do you seriously know what a detail is? He provides much more detail in every aspect of Slayer than you, me or anyone else I know of. Explain to us then, what details is he supposedly missing? His methods are not seperate from what "we" have been using, maybe from what "you" use. I do not follow every method exactly, but most of my methods are based on those presented in his guide. You actually think the Summoning rates very by30-40%? Upon what basis did you come to the conclusion? It cannot be factual as you have no evidence onec again to support your claim. There is alot of details, they are all presented in an orderly fashion and are not difficult to find. However I will say again so you don't miss it. Explain to us then, what details is he supposedly missing?

 

I have already gone over this several times. My main concerns lie in the large margin of error he gives himself - a variability of 30% makes calculations of this nature impossible. Additionally, as he is not separating his profit rates, it's impossible for us to adjust for the falling prices (Dark bow is a good example; what would be earned now is a fraction of what would be earned a few months ago), and in many cases his methods differ substantially from the ones we are debating.

 

 

 

 

From the get go when I supplied these rates, I explained how I calculated the experience for each charm. It was using the average from my current level up till 99. I also said that my specific rate would not apply to everyone. You are only showing you do not fully read what I have posted. The point is consistency. Someone with my levels will generally have a higher Summoning level than low.

 

Someone your level could also have higher slaye rlevel then low. Averages must be worked for everyone, not a specific person.

 

 

 

 

Then that means it has nothing whatsoever to do with what you posted. The link in your thread directed me straight to that quote. I was responding to that post in which you mentioned that link, not about the moderators and supposed flame war. Not my fault you were incapable of telling the difference between them (especially considering the post of yours I quoted and responded to).

 

I posted discussing flame wars vs. actual debates. Pick which one you want to talk about.

 

 

 

 

You are also trying to bias other peoples opinions of Morningrise333 to suit you. What you posted in quotation marks was not said, and it only shows you are trying to make him like worse than he is. "It takes me 20 minutes to do a spectres task. How long does it take you, an hour? Two? Read Zarfot's guide. I think you'd really benefit." You will also find you had never mentioned it took 47 minutes to complete the task. You mentioned 45 minutes.... on the next page of the thread. Was he supposed to be psyhic and know that you were going to post that number on the next page?

 

I posted my rates long before he posted that, as well as saying that I had read Zarfot's guide many times - further proof he never bothered to read my replies. Additionally, it's quite obvious I wasn't quoting him word for word; I was using exaggeration of his posting mannerisms to illustrate my point.

 

 

 

Nor was the cannon ever proven inefficient. I know that as a fact and the replies earlier in this thread support that.

 

And yet a cannon was never proven inefficient.

 

 

Then read the earlier replies more carefully; I conclusively proved cannon to be inefficient at 400k\h, and no further evidence to the contrary has been presented.

 

 

 

 

Nor would it be hundreds of pages of text in a word document. You are just looking for any excuse to get out of saying them.

 

May I ask what purpose would be served by coping the first 40 pages of this thread into several posts again?

 

 

 

 

There is a mistake there, you used the word "claim". The word claim infers I had no evidence to back up that rate... since I did, it was not a claim. There is evidence of other people attaining and surpassing this rate, I even showed a short vid showing it.

 

Ah yes, that 6 minutes video of your rates. How could I ever dispute it :roll:

 

 

 

 

It took you 4-5 days for that? Only 13 rates were given. Which you have admitted that 2 were not even present in the thead. That leads to only 11 having been supposedly posted. So you know what I did? Since I have the entire thread in a word document, I hit "ctrl+f" and typed in each of those numbers. Not one of them was found, meaning those rates were never given. Well, fair enough, maybe you gave the rates to the nearest 1,000 experience. So I looked for those too.

 

 

 

For the very first one, rounding off to the nearest thousand, I got that rate for that NPC. Sadly, that was a rate I supplied, which came directly from Zarfot's guide. It was never found again to be in reference to that NPC. The 6th NPC I found down the list I found a number for that to nearest thousand. It however was found in the exact same post as the previous one, a rate that I supplied directly from Zarfot's guide. After those two, not once did I find one of those numbers with that NPC. I guess all you did was show that those rates were never posted in the thread. Especially considering to get an average rate to 5 significant figures (6 for one task), and since those numbers weren't in the thread, you had to test every single one of them to get those rates.

 

 

 

So I guess now we have undeniable proof that you have never posted your rates in the thread. Anything indicating as such was a lie. Not to mention there was only 11 (13 but two you said were not agreed upon) different NPCs supplied, that would infer that if these numbers came from the thread, that only 11 had been given. This furthur proves that you have never posted all of your averages for each task. Hell, you only gave melee xp/h rates, no Slayer, no summoning, no profit rates.

 

 

 

See, didn't even mention the specific rate you gave or to which NPC each were related. Didn't need to show you have lieing all along.

 

Covered in the PM. Those rates were not my numbers alone; I took into account Qeltar and Zarfot's rates (and in two cases, yours) on tasks that they used similar methods to try and obtain the most acurate picture of what can be expected from those tasks.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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That is an opinion and not fact. So how can that be proof? The point is if one person can do it, other people can also do it. That means at the moment other players with maxed stats are quite capable of getting your rate of 825k per hour.

 

No, because if they were no one would be getting 825k per hour.

 

 

 

 

You do realize that there's no way addy bars can go under 1900 or so gp each? Only 20% less then they are now, and of course there's the rune daggers and other stuff that aviansies drop.

Ah, this reminds me about the noob on the Runescape forums who was upset with the quest "Cold War" because apparently his grandparents died in the war. :wall:
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That is an opinion and not fact. So how can that be proof? The point is if one person can do it, other people can also do it. That means at the moment other players with maxed stats are quite capable of getting your rate of 825k per hour.

 

No, because if they were no one would be getting 825k per hour.

 

 

 

 

You do realize that there's no way addy bars can go under 1900 or so gp each? Only 20% less then they are now, and of course there's the rune daggers and other stuff that aviansies drop.

 

But the location itself can't support many 825kers. 825k counts leeching off newbs and attacking twi specific avansies - a few more high levels doing what I'm doing would drop profit drastically.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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Ah, so that's your secret to getting 825k. Stealing kills :)

Ah, this reminds me about the noob on the Runescape forums who was upset with the quest "Cold War" because apparently his grandparents died in the war. :wall:
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I'll look through the thread again before posting and discussing the rates (assuming that I understand everything -- the first time was brutal) -- I probably won't have time to immediately, but I want to see what the rates are that you're working from.

 

 

 

But the location itself can't support many 825kers. 825k counts leeching off newbs and attacking twi specific avansies - a few more high levels doing what I'm doing would drop profit drastically.

 

 

 

So other people CAN do it, just not everyone at once. That makes sense. (No, that isn't sarcasm.)

If you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.

 

MischlingsSH.png

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So other people CAN do it, just not everyone at once. That makes sense. (No, that isn't sarcasm.)

 

Ok :P

 

 

 

I'm just saying that it's not a viable method for the average player.

 

 

 

 

Ah, so that's your secret to getting 825k. Stealing kills :)

 

That's around 150k of it :lol:

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

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