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Lasting Value of F2P PVP


n64jive

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There is a flaw with the lasting effect of pking on f2p. How many people can make a profit pking on f2p? You can't...it's pure loss. Pking on p2p, you can gain a substantial profit. I believe that you should be able to make a profit on f2p, just as you can on p2p.

 

 

 

I recently made a thread depicting why I believed f2p should deserve non-degrading dragon weapons. After many post, I quickly agreed with the general audience that dragon weapons with specials would way over-power the melee side of f2p, as well as lose the effect of becoming a member. The thread quickly got off-topic and changed to a battle between why f2p is a bunch of leechers and people who were currently p2p are somehow superior to those currently f2p(which an extreme stereotype and I attribute this mentality to the age of the tip.it population(my daddy is stronger than your daddy)).

 

 

 

Back on topic, the whole point of my post was that there is no-lasting effect for PvP in f2p(ahhh, too many acronyms)...Something nice about PvP is that it is not repetitive like most of runescape. However, in f2p, there is very low risk/very low reward. Most of 1v1 fights end in the other person teleing or running to bank with enough lobsters to outlast the remaining duration of the fight.

 

 

 

But why doesn't this happen in p2p? Because there is KO potential! Many will argue that there is KO potential in f2p, and there is, but only if both parties agree to certain parameters(No armour, no "safeing", ...etc). This is PvP! I shouldn't have to set battle parameters for every fight I initiate. But the fact is 2 full rune fights using rune scimmies end up in long drawn out battles where in order to KO you would need to hit max hits 2 times in a row(max hit during a pvp battle averages around 23 with rune scimitar, potion, and 15% strength prayer)...

 

For instance, you hit a 23, and the person had 30 health(most people eat when they fall into the 20's)...so the person has 7 health left+12 for the lobby they eat..so they have 19 health left..obviously a max hit would KO the person...but against full rune, this doesn't happen...you hit WAY to many zero's..KO's never happen..it's a waste.

 

 

 

So instead of me offering a solution, I'm asking you, the community, to compile a solution to this situation. Build upon eachother's ideas, what do you think must be done to give f2p PvP a lasting effect.

 

 

 

Now I know Jagex is a company, and lasting effect in the free version doesn't seem like a good idea...but the truth is, it doesn't hurt the company.

 

 

 

Back in the RSC days there was reason to PK on f2p as it was still profitable, and an even better reason to pk on p2p, because it was higher risk/higher reward. Today this is still true, you can gain a profit on f2p, but you can gain a much higher profit on p2p. This is with every comparison of f2p vs p2p in terms of profit(you can gain profit if you stay f2p, but gain a better profit on p2p), except for pking. You most often lose money pking on f2p, and you certainly never gain, where as p2p, you can lose millions, or you can gain millions. If you can lose/gain millions in p2p, shouldn't you be able to lose/gain 200k in f2p?

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I think for most people, PvP is just fun and not for profit. It surely isn't that hard in F2P to make 250k for supplies by cutting yews or mining coal and then spending it on supplies for pking. If F2Pers are that bothered about losing money whilst PvPing they can always buy members and do what they find fun and make a profit.

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It's waaay more fun than profit. My pure lost 200k+ so far, and hasn't died once. (Well, not while he was 1-iteming lmao)

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F2P pking is useless and pointless, and it is impossible to even break even when risking 25k.

 

 

 

They need to re-think a whole new system, one that stops friends killing each other and stops RWT as well, it can't be that hard surely? They have an amazing script, give me a day and I could think of a system better.

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first, to fix this problem i think that its a must to fix the combat triangle on f2p version, to give warriors dragon items even if they only last 30 mins, thats a huge advantage.

 

 

 

In my opinion the "broken" part of the triangule is magic:

 

-As we can see, f2p warriors can hit up to 25 with a r scimmy and with 2h max is 31 usually they carry a full rune and some dhide

 

-Rangers can hit up to 18 (can fire 3 times while a scim hits twice) wear dhide and some rune armor (helm/legs or helm/chain) and some carry a 2h for a combo

 

-Mages can hit only up to 16 and got the slowest attack of all the styles***, usually wear robes and some carry a secundary weapon (scim, 2h, bow, etc) oh yeah they can bind and curse and its long ranged but lets be realistic, a warrior can own a mage of its same level, may be wearing a full rune the mage can win, but when the warrior is praying, swaping rune for dhide or taking off the rune armor, the mage got a hard time there.

 

 

 

Resumen:

 

warrior > ranger (its a tough fight but warrior usually wins)

 

ranger > mage (mage just dont got any chance here)

 

mage < warrior (i explained why this happens)

 

 

 

This doesnt applies for every single fight but its often to be like that.

 

*** = Here you can compare the scim, short bow and staves speeds, the more the speed bar is coloured in, the faster the weapon/weapon type is. http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=2010

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Resumen:

 

warrior > ranger (its a tough fight but warrior usually wins)

 

ranger > mage (mage just dont got any chance here)

 

mage < warrior (i explained why this happens)

 

 

 

This doesnt applies for every single fight but its often to be like that.

 

 

 

Mages are like heavy artillery. Rangers are like machine guns. :?

 

 

 

I've always viewed mages as long distance fighters. If a warrior manages to close the gap the player isn't using magic right.

 

 

 

a warrior can own a mage of its same level, may be wearing a full rune the mage can win, but when the warrior is praying, swaping rune for dhide or taking off the rune armor, the mage got a hard time there.

 

People who usually switch to d'hide can range too, so the 'warrior' can't be classed as a warrior, but a tank or a hybrid of some kind.

 

 

 

EDIT: Oh, and looking at the number of people crowding the f2p pvp worlds, I don't think f2p pvp is going away any time soon.

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Resumen:

 

warrior > ranger (its a tough fight but warrior usually wins)

 

ranger > mage (mage just dont got any chance here)

 

mage < warrior (i explained why this happens)

 

 

 

This doesnt applies for every single fight but its often to be like that.

 

 

 

Mages are like heavy artillery. Rangers are like machine guns. :?

 

 

 

I've always viewed mages as long distance fighters. If a warrior manages to close the gap the player isn't using magic right.

 

 

 

a warrior can own a mage of its same level, may be wearing a full rune the mage can win, but when the warrior is praying, swaping rune for dhide or taking off the rune armor, the mage got a hard time there.

 

People who usually switch to d'hide can range too, so the 'warrior' can't be classed as a warrior, but a tank or a hybrid of some kind.

 

 

 

EDIT: Oh, and looking at the number of people crowding the f2p pvp worlds, I don't think f2p pvp is going away any time soon.

 

 

 

You have F2P mage entirely wrong

 

 

 

Cure/weaken etc spells are useless and a waste of invy spots. You can bind but yeah that only holds them for 5 seconds. And yeah even into the 90's you can't hold them for any longer... Your top spell maxes out at a measly 16, you cannot KO anyone with a 16. The best you can hope to do is run get distance and whittle down their food until they die. Never going to happen, meet 1 ranger and your screwed as f2p mages have nothing in terms of defence and stand no chance agaisnt a warrior up close.

 

 

 

F2P mage is a joke. There is two pking styles there, Range 2h's and full rune (with a 2h for the ko). Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong...

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You have F2P mage entirely wrong

 

 

 

Cure/weaken etc spells are useless and a waste of invy spots. You can bind but yeah that only holds them for 5 seconds. And yeah even into the 90's you can't hold them for any longer... Your top spell maxes out at a measly 16, you cannot KO anyone with a 16. The best you can hope to do is run get distance and whittle down their food until they die. Never going to happen, meet 1 ranger and your screwed as f2p mages have nothing in terms of defence and stand no chance agaisnt a warrior up close.

 

 

 

F2P mage is a joke. There is two pking styles there, Range 2h's and full rune (with a 2h for the ko). Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong...

 

 

 

You're forgetting to take into consideration combat levels. At low levels magic is very effective in f2p, espcially with rc guild robes instead of those flimsy wizard robes. And those 5 seconds are extremely handy, I've killed any number of runners after rooting them to the spot. (Sadly I can't do anything about teleporters.) Higher levels you have to be able to switch styles. The reason why f2p doesn't have any effective magic spells at high levels is to get you to paying for members. :wall:

 

 

 

I got my butt handed to me by a range/mage tank in a deathmatch once. I was doing range/2h with the usual rune full helm/dhide/rune legs. If you know what you're doing, f2p mage isn't laughable. Well, a pure mage is pitiful at high levels.

 

 

 

Hmm. How about this? We both make two accounts, level them to combat 20, and fight. I'll be the mage. You be the warrior or ranger. (If we did do this--ha! doubt it--I'll be getting 50 rc first, so it could take a few weeks.)

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In 1v1's, you'd have to be either incredibly rich, overly confident, or bat[cabbage] insane to be a mage. I have maged in f2p for a while now. Solo fights are impossible. Fighting a ranger is suicide, fighting a meleer is a waste. You have no defence, you're spell hits 16s, and they will 90% of the time take off their armor and/or wear d'hide and possibly flip on some prayers and you're screwed. Not only that, but mages spend so much on runes and get little value for their effort. The only difference between a level 90 mage and a level 60 is accuracy. The only time a mage is good solo is at lower levels where defence is not as high and the hits of mages are harder than warriors and rangers of the same levels. I had a level 20 mage pure back in the old wildy, he dominated. But eventually the number of kills he got couldn't sustain his rune cost, and when the wildy was removed I retired him.

 

 

 

High level mages are only strong in clans. Their bind screws the target if the clan is big enough, their hits pound painfully if the mage can squeeze an attack or two, and they can hit at a long distance. Even then, mages seldom get the kills unless they're high level enough because the rangers are the ones with the constant damage and the meleers have the stronger hits. The good mages are too busy binding to keep their target at bay that they can't get a constant set of attacks, they can just barely squeeze one or two per bind if they are efficient.

 

 

 

So really the only lasting mages in f2p are the rich ones who don't mind wasting a few million. But the average player can't sustain it, the chain is just too imbalanced. Empowering warriors with nondegradable weapons isn't the solution, it simply adds to the threat against mages and rangers.

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If it didn't require bloods, I would recommend opening the wave spells to f2p. Not like they get any use in members anyway.

 

 

 

Snare is definitely needed on f2p as well, bind is just too ineffective.

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While as a ranger or melee type you can solo efficiently most of the time, these types face harder times KO'ing at low levels without a clan. Mage is the exact opposite.

 

 

 

If we look @ the experience tables, we would see that it is unbalancing, though a mass of people instead of one or two is better all the time.

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this mage discussion is off topic but more interessting than the OP :P

 

 

 

It would definately be a good idea giving wave spells and snare to f2p wouldnt harm it at all they never ever get sued on p2p and would still not overpower mages even if they did have them. Id definately like that as an f2p update.

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I think the simple solution to balance it out is to simply give snare to F2P.

 

 

 

I mean snare is only level 50. And no P2P in their right mind who can engangle would use snare.

 

 

 

It would certainly balance out the F2P Mage, without overpowering it since your not changing the max hit at all, your simply changing its advantage over warriors, since rangers can hit from afar anyways.

 

 

 

But I will agree currently the F2P triangle is a tad messed up. But thats partially because Jagex dosent worry about balancing F2P. They say if you want a more balanced triangle, go to members. But I still think giving F2P snare would solve 90% of the issues without overpowering the F2P Triangle.

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The simple problem is that most people in f2p pvp are fighting the same way they would in p2p pvp. Ill explain (as stated above there is no KO ability in f2p) yet most of the fights take place just a short distance from safe areas. PVP is very profitable if you leave those areas try pking in the wild again or roam the distances between towns. Mages are effective in these areas if proper technique is used. ie cast bind cast 2 spells run and repeat.

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Cure/weaken etc spells are useless and a waste of invy spots.

 

So true. Someone casted Curse on me in FoG.. Removed 1 level (1,25%) off my Defence instead of the 5% (in this case, 4 levels), making the weakening spells in F2P a one huge

 

 

 

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OT: Unless you get lucky, I would say that you can't profit in F2P PvP. You'll have some sick fun though :lol:

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It seems that the theoretical power mages have over meleers lies in the holding spells. As long as the mage can stop the meleer from getting close enough to attack, the combat triangle works as intended. However, f2p lacks any kind of powerful holding spell.

 

 

 

Not only that, but teleporting is too frequently available as a get-out-of-jail-free card from f2p PvP situations, and that's a serious problem.

 

 

 

Proposition one: Snare should be made f2p. Bind should last for 8 seconds, and Snare should last for 12 seconds. Entangle should last 18 seconds. However, these spells cause no damage.

 

 

 

Proposition two: Teleblock should remain as a member's spell, but members should have the ability to make Teleblock tablets (however, using them makes the spell only last 3 minutes) and sell them on to f2p.

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If I were allowed to take my dragon set into f2p (which I probably would if they introduced non degrading drag armour), even without the specs I would be able to lay waste to all 3 corners of the combat triangle unless I met another dag armoured combatant or someone with higher levels (I am 95 combat without summoning and a 2 level spred in the 4 main combat stats [74-76] with 56 prayer). By swaping out maby my legs for dhide I would have positive magic defense (I do normally but the loss of my cape, boots, and gloves changes that), and my 65 magic and 74 defense could probably carry me through a 2v1 considering the level of f2p magic spells and f2p mages). Mages can join the f2p hybrid train just like everyone else. Warriors carry dhide, rangers carryrune weapons, maybe the mages should start considering mage/range hybrids since you can still possibly cast in s hide where casting with full rune on is "as far as unwarented optimisem goes, roughly the equivalent of paning for gold in your shower".

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first, to fix this problem i think that its a must to fix the combat triangle on f2p version, to give warriors dragon items even if they only last 30 mins, thats a huge advantage.

 

 

 

In my opinion the "broken" part of the triangule is magic:

 

-As we can see, f2p warriors can hit up to 25 with a r scimmy and with 2h max is 31 usually they carry a full rune and some dhide

 

-Rangers can hit up to 18 (can fire 3 times while a scim hits twice) wear dhide and some rune armor (helm/legs or helm/chain) and some carry a 2h for a combo

 

-Mages can hit only up to 16 and got the slowest attack of all the styles***, usually wear robes and some carry a secundary weapon (scim, 2h, bow, etc) oh yeah they can bind and curse and its long ranged but lets be realistic, a warrior can own a mage of its same level, may be wearing a full rune the mage can win, but when the warrior is praying, swaping rune for dhide or taking off the rune armor, the mage got a hard time there.

 

 

 

Resumen:

 

warrior > ranger (its a tough fight but warrior usually wins)

 

ranger > mage (mage just dont got any chance here)

 

mage < warrior (i explained why this happens)

 

 

 

This doesnt applies for every single fight but its often to be like that.

 

*** = Here you can compare the scim, short bow and staves speeds, the more the speed bar is coloured in, the faster the weapon/weapon type is. http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=2010

 

 

 

I think something that would significantly help this is giving f2p snare...10 seconds would greatly help improve mage > warrior...only problem is when this comes to multi...any chance that you might of had escaping that clan has now been destroyed....

 

 

 

There is something that everyone should abide by in f2p, and thats if you're not at least 15 people, you should not be in multi combat....

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Two points for me to make:

 

 

 

Firstly, in BH, where you get exactly what you're opponent was using when they die, f2p pking is quite profitable if you're good. You say that it is impossible to get KOs. That's why most fights in F2P between experienced PKers are done without armour!

 

 

 

Secondly, to the slightly off topic argument about F2P mage. Yes, soloing with just magic is pretty pointless, but maging in a clan is not only a lethal, but a vital weapon to an effective clan. Fire blast is actually very accurate, as long as your opponent isn't wearing d hide (they don't else they get owned by melee/rangers). As for not getting much time to blast between binding, that is a problem which is why many clans have meleers hybriding bringing both druidic robes with runes for bind but not for blasts. Having said that, F2P mage is in urgent need of an update, hopefully including snare.

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Nobody cares about f2p.

 

 

 

Pay up and shut up. Capische?

 

 

 

:roll: read the post for once in ur life.

 

 

 

the main problem is that f2pers cant hit high, thus they cant ko. every battle ends in someone going to safe spot or teleport. another thing is profit.

 

 

 

solution

 

 

 

1) remove teleport during combat

 

 

 

2) give f2p better equipment so they can hit harder. alternative 1

 

 

 

3) make few additions to the skills to make them equal and ko able alternative 2

 

 

 

4) profit with avoiding rwt could be ... (thats where the trouble is)

 

 

 

f2p is not going so well. and jagex wont do anything about cuz we dont pay...

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Nobody cares about f2p.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pay up and shut up. Capische?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:roll: read the post for once in ur life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the main problem is that f2pers cant hit high, thus they cant ko. every battle ends in someone going to safe spot or teleport. another thing is profit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

solution

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) remove teleport during combat

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) give f2p better equipment so they can hit harder. alternative 1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) make few additions to the skills to make them equal and ko able alternative 2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) profit with avoiding rwt could be ... (thats where the trouble is)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

f2p is not going so well. and jagex wont do anything about cuz we dont pay...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did read the post. You can fix the problem yourself, Jagex doesn't need to do anything. Fork out the $5 bucks, if you can pay for the internet you can pay that.

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