Range Haters United!

[ShadowTwisted]

To put it more to the point: Compfreak has been adding constructive criticism. Regardless of anyone's original intention in creating a topic, there are two sides to every topic and trying to keep one side from being voiced is never going to work. So if you keep trying to attack CompFreak, whose posts have had valid factual information presented as a counter-point to your topic, in a highly opinion-based fashion, you will sound more and more like a child throwing a temper tantrum because he's not winning.

 

 

 

Now, there are a few things that I've noticed that agitate me a bit as far as rangers go. I came across a lvl 77 ranger whilst on a slayer task to kill basilisks. I had found out that his strength and range levels were both over 80 from a conversation he had with another ranger, higher than me on both counts, however my combat level was still 13 levels higher. Where I became upset was with the difference in our max hits. He was hitting a max of 25, based off of my observations, whilst my own was a mere 17. Granted that there's a 10 level difference in our strength, but at a lower level, he was hitting harder than me. In most cases, you can find this to be true depending on which combat skills the person's combat level is based off of. However, where it seems to be imbalanced is that there is only a lvl 40 defense requirement for d'hide. Rangers being able to use distance and obstacles to their advantage, seem to be able to become powerful without needing to build as many skills as someone who uses melee. What's more is that I have yet to see my range (or magic) level affect my overall combat level. It leads to having people lower level than myself being able to get a power trip because they can hit harder than I can from a lower level. While there was none of this occurring during the aforementioned scenario, it has occurred in the past, namely at the Blue Drags at the Taverly Member's Dungeon. I got a nice bombardment of flaming from a level 56 who was ranging the adult dragons. The only thing that kept me from losing my cool was watching him get forced to teleport because of the baby dragons.

 

 

 

Another facet of range(and magic) that irritates me is that there are tools that allow them to target multiple foes at once. This is of course is in reference to the dwarf cannon, which seems to be an overly easy way to boost a range level. The largest advantage to the cannon is that its max hit doesn't seem to be related in any way to any skill. I admit that I have used a cannon before and have since sold it. However, at the time I had it, I don't think I had any stat above 60 and was able to score hits of 25 with the cannon. Mages also have access to multi-target spells, the most preferred being ice barrage. Although this requires a high level and expensive runes. I understand that the cannon also has a high cost, but doesn't really have a level requirement that I'm aware of. I would at least feel comforted if there was a melee weapon with a whirlwind style special, that attacked all the surrounding enemies when in a multi-combat area. Currently I am unaware of any such weapon, which leaves melee without much to get an edge in multi-combat.

[Moad14]

True, killing wasn't the best word to use. How about invalidating? ;)

[compfreak847]

Now, there are a few things that I've noticed that agitate me a bit as far as rangers go. I came across a lvl 77 ranger whilst on a slayer task to kill basilisks. I had found out that his strength and range levels were both over 80 from a conversation he had with another ranger, higher than me on both counts, however my combat level was still 13 levels higher. Where I became upset was with the difference in our max hits. He was hitting a max of 25, based off of my observations, whilst my own was a mere 17. Granted that there's a 10 level difference in our strength, but at a lower level, he was hitting harder than me. In most cases, you can find this to be true depending on which combat skills the person's combat level is based off of.

 

The combat formula is quite simple; if your attack\strength add up to 1.5x your range\mage level, then they will determine your combat. Accordingly, range and mage only have .75x the effect on range level. If his strength and range were both 80, then his attack level had to be 40 or less for range to be determining his combat level; quite a fair formula.

 

 

However, where it seems to be imbalanced is that there is only a lvl 40 defense requirement for d'hide. Rangers being able to use distance and obstacles to their advantage, seem to be able to become powerful without needing to build as many skills as someone who uses melee. What's more is that I have yet to see my range (or magic) level affect my overall combat level. It leads to having people lower level than myself being able to get a power trip because they can hit harder than I can from a lower level. While there was none of this occurring during the aforementioned scenario, it has occurred in the past, namely at the Blue Drags at the Taverly Member's Dungeon. I got a nice bombardment of flaming from a level 56 who was ranging the adult dragons. The only thing that kept me from losing my cool was watching him get forced to teleport because of the baby dragons.

Rune is 40 defence also, but does not have any requirments in terms attack\strength levels; and the better range armor (karils\armadyl) both require 70+ defence and range. Range generally tends to deal slightly more damage then a meleer of the same level, but as a much higher cost. However, you don't know the defence levels behind it; you could be 80 defence, he could be 1, making his offensive power just as high as yours at lower combat levels. The other downside is the reduced defence of range armor; which makes the triangle between melee\range fairly well balanced; magic is the oddball, with certain highly useful situations and others not nearly as much.

 

 

 

 

Another facet of range(and magic) that irritates me is that there are tools that allow them to target multiple foes at once. This is of course is in reference to the dwarf cannon, which seems to be an overly easy way to boost a range level. The largest advantage to the cannon is that its max hit doesn't seem to be related in any way to any skill. I admit that I have used a cannon before and have since sold it. However, at the time I had it, I don't think I had any stat above 60 and was able to score hits of 25 with the cannon. Mages also have access to multi-target spells, the most preferred being ice barrage. Although this requires a high level and expensive runes. I understand that the cannon also has a high cost, but doesn't really have a level requirement that I'm aware of.

Cannon's accuracy, but not damage, increases with range level, unlike any other method of ranging. However, a cannon is VERY inefficient - it is only useful for a select few rich players on a select few slayer monsters. For everyday range training or killing, not so much. Magic and range both have multi attacks; however, ranges hit low and frequently hit zero, they can only hit 9 targets, the targets have to be closely bunched together and no larger then 1 square each, and it has to be multi combat. Magic's multi is very useful, but the cost and level requirements are what balance out the skill.

 

 

 

I would at least feel comforted if there was a melee weapon with a whirlwind style special, that attacked all the surrounding enemies when in a multi-combat area. Currently I am unaware of any such weapon, which leaves melee without much to get an edge in multi-combat.

You almost word-for-word described the D2H special, and to a lesser extent, the d hally. However, multi combat range\melee is generally not used often, due to other balancing factors mentioned previously.

 

 

 

True, killing wasn't the best word to use. How about invalidating? ;)

 

I wasn't 'invalidating', simply bringing up an alternate, better-backed viewpoint that disagrees with his. If he refutes mine, mine's the one that is invalidated - until I respond to his. It's called debating :P

[ShadowTwisted]

Point taken, the formula is pretty easy, provided that you actually know the formula. My guess is that many run-of-the-mill players aren't going to know that, however, leading into the confusion behind many of the arguments I had made. I was unaware of the d2h special being multi-target. Though the only person I know who has one is my wife, and the only multi-combat zone I had ever seen it used in was the Stronghold of Player Safety on Cockroach Soldiers, not usually an enemy to get into a cluster. As for the Dragon Halberd, who can think of Underground Pass as a fun quest? I still need to finish Regicide, I believe I'm still running a bit shy on the agility requirement. While the d2h may not have a quest requirement, a near 2 mil price tag doesn't exactly leave it as commonplace, and the attack speed leaves a little something to be desired for overall effectiveness. I suppose all-in-all, there is a degree of balance, though mage could still use some work.

 

 

 

The main reason behind my points was to try to provide a more acceptable argument than the whole "you just say range owns, everything else sucks" which is probably slowly draining support for an otherwise somewhat valid argument.

[compfreak847]

Point taken, the formula is pretty easy, provided that you actually know the formula. My guess is that many run-of-the-mill players aren't going to know that, however, leading into the confusion behind many of the arguments I had made. I was unaware of the d2h special being multi-target. Though the only person I know who has one is my wife, and the only multi-combat zone I had ever seen it used in was the Stronghold of Player Safety on Cockroach Soldiers, not usually an enemy to get into a cluster. As for the Dragon Halberd, who can think of Underground Pass as a fun quest? I still need to finish Regicide, I believe I'm still running a bit shy on the agility requirement. While the d2h may not have a quest requirement, a near 2 mil price tag doesn't exactly leave it as commonplace, and the attack speed leaves a little something to be desired for overall effectiveness. I suppose all-in-all, there is a degree of balance, though mage could still use some work.

 

 

 

The main reason behind my points was to try to provide a more acceptable argument than the whole "you just say range owns, everything else sucks" which is probably slowly draining support for an otherwise somewhat valid argument.

 

Frankly, I don't care about support. If you disagree with me, fine - I'll argue with you until the cows come home, and both of us will learn something from it. If you agree with me, that's nice - but doesn't teach either of us anything. I love a good debate, and unless someone actually provides reasons as to why I am wrong, I will continue to assume I am right :P

[eatrunearrow]

Yeah... I'm just gona walk away from this one as I might be a bit biased...

 

 

 

Of course you do have the right to hate me... I've lost count on how many meleers I've slain... =P~

[Tim]

Yeah... I'm just gona walk away from this one as I might be a bit biased...

 

 

 

Of course you do have the right to hate me... I've lost count on how many meleers I've slain... =P~

 

or per-chance vice-versa? :

 

 

 

true, training range is gruesome f2 but i personally notice after 70 its realy fun, that includes f2p and p2p. on p2p i ONLY ever use a crystal bow (you could say its my trademark rage weapon) excluding dragons though, f2p i still find it good and all i use are steel arrows and a maple shortbow. i'm not much of a magic fan as are you with range, but has its uses. i like range because i can do good damage even on melee'ers and with 90 defence its absolutly fun watching them tell you to remove prayer when your not praying anyway. :

 

 

 

but yeah, princeconan1, id like you to meet Mr Iron-Hide Le' Defensor. (aka Defence skill) :

[RayOxide]

From princeconan1:

 

Private message:

 

 

 

st*u, spelling has nothing to do with range you fa*. Bonuses has nothing to do with it either. I'm a bounty hunter (bh) and i only fight no-armour against rangers and they always lose just like you lost this argument right here. GF noob :P.

 

 

 

From SwimmyThe(Awesome)Duck:

 

In this thread:

 

 

 

Way to handle this maturely.

[Tim]

From princeconan1:

 

Private message:

 

 

 

st*u, spelling has nothing to do with range you fa*. Bonuses has nothing to do with it either. I'm a bounty hunter (bh) and i only fight no-armour against rangers and they always lose just like you lost this argument right here. GF noob :P.

 

 

 

 

Im not one to be Rude, but did we open some sort or portal leading in and out of RSOF? :wall:

 

 

 

last i checked, without bonus'es damage taken and power become unfair in your situation, aka you just get slaughtered like a rabbit walking into Elmer Fudd's Farm. :-s

[RayOxide]

That is what happens when people tell idiots to come to the smart runescape tip-forum ;)

[compfreak847]

That is what happens when people tell idiots to come to the smart runescape tip-forum ;)

 

I love it. It makes for slightly hilarious one sided debates, similar to this one :lol:

 

 

 

Yeah... So is the OP ever going to come back and defend his thread?

[Danno385]

He (compfreak) posted helpfull tibbits once or twice but the thing is he has posted those same facts in all of his posts except when he was attacking me personaly.

[compfreak847]

He (compfreak) posted helpfull tibbits once or twice but the thing is he has posted those same facts in all of his posts except when he was attacking me personaly.

 

Sir? I have nothing wrong with you; I haven't, nor do I plan to, attack you personally. All of my posts have been constructive and informative - all of yours have been you - guess what? - attacking me personally. I have no problem with debating with you if you wish to argue against any of my points; further whining about me posting will accomplish nothing whatsoever. I'm not going to 'leave this thread' just because you continue your angry and senseless tirades against me while completely ignoring what I say.

 

 

 

That is what happens when people tell idiots to come to the smart runescape tip-forum ;)

 

Tip.it's gone down somewhat, but I think it has more to do with the price of becoming more popular then younger players coming over from the RSOF.

 

 

 

 

true, training range is gruesome f2 but i personally notice after 70 its realy fun, that includes f2p and p2p. on p2p i ONLY ever use a crystal bow (you could say its my trademark rage weapon) excluding dragons though, f2p i still find it good and all i use are steel arrows and a maple shortbow. i'm not much of a magic fan as are you with range, but has its uses. i like range because i can do good damage even on melee'ers and with 90 defence its absolutly fun watching them tell you to remove prayer when your not praying anyway. :

 

What usually happens is that the meleers start praying range on you when your ripping them apart with bolts (especially if your using obstacles to your advantage. Easy enough to pray melee, but they have veracs and there's no range weapon that can hit through prayer. There are quite a few more range options for members vs. FTPers, FTP could use a bit more in the range\mage department.

 

 

 

@everyone: I'm no mod, but could we at least try and limit the flaming\spam? It's making this thread hard to read, and will probably end in a lock...

[Danno385]

I'm going to do the mature thing and end this fight. No coment. BTW if you were talking about me as an idiot remember that I found this siteon my own trying to better myself at runescape. Another note is that if forum games counted towards post count i would have over 1000. You most definitly if you are human would have treated me differently if I has a higher post count.

 

 

 

Last message on this topic for me do replie if you must...

[compfreak847]

I'm going to do the mature thing and end this fight. No coment. BTW if you were talking about me as an idiot remember that I found this siteon my own trying to better myself at runescape. Another note is that if forum games counted towards post count i would have over 1000. You most definitly if you are human would have treated me differently if I has a higher post count.

 

 

 

Last message on this topic for me do replie if you must...

 

This wasn't a fight, but ending it is fine with me. I never said, thought, or hinted at you being an idiot; as I have said several times, I respect you and your ideas even if they differ from mine. Kudos to you on finding this site. And post count really doesn't affect me; what does 900 posts in forum games have anything to do with your intelligence? Also, I would recommend removing the 'age: 12' from your profile, as Tip.it requires that you agree to being 13 or over in order to create an account (As did Runescape at the time you signed up for Tip.it), and being underage tends to make other forum members look down on you. And yes, I'm a human. Hope that settles any doubts you had :roll:

[Danno385]

Lol I lied about that being my last post. Most humans lie. And I am pretty sure(although not completely certian) that when I signed up for TIF that there was no age rule. I not change my age at this point in my profile because my birthday is a month away. I Know about 3 other 12 year olds on this site and I know of many people under age on runescape. Although some are complete idiots (not my fault) some are valued members. I have one 8 year old on my friends list..... I know of many players that started under age and I have speaked to admins that know I am under age.----That was off topic but everything goes off topic in rap ups.

 

 

 

Anyway....This post I made came with great timeing because I am planning on training 20 levels of ranged in the next few weeks. I won't enjoy it lol. So bye to all of those who posted here.

[compfreak847]

Lol I lied about that being my last post. Most humans lie. And I am pretty sure(although not completely certian) that when I signed up for TIF that there was no age rule. I not change my age at this point in my profile because my birthday is a month away. I Know about 3 other 12 year olds on this site and I know of many people under age on runescape. Although some are complete idiots (not my fault) some are valued members. I have one 8 year old on my friends list..... I know of many players that started under age and I have speaked to admins that know I am under age.----That was off topic but everything goes off topic in rap ups.

 

 

 

Anyway....This post I made came with great timeing because I am planning on training 20 levels of ranged in the next few weeks. I won't enjoy it lol. So bye to all of those who posted here.

 

Ehh, a few months ago they changed it from 'not allowing under 13' to 'changing permissions for under 13', so admitting you were underage after agreeing to being over 13 isn't the greatest idea. Plus not even being a teenager yet generally reduces how people think of you - not saying anything personal, just a general stereotype.

[Lord_Shalaj]

Compfreak, you go wrong in one place.

 

 

 

Rangers do have a weapon to pierce through armour which is Diamond Bolts.

 

 

 

As calculated by Lord Klotski (Holychaos), he found that Veracs set pierces at an average of 20-23% while Diamond bolts pierce at an average of 13-15%.

 

 

 

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but do Dragon bolts (which produce Dragonfire when the special is animated) get affected by Range protection?

 

 

 

What are the specials of Dark Bow under protection against Range anyway?

 

 

 

Thanks..

 

Lord Shalaj

[compfreak847]

^^

 

Nope, I said prayer, not armor - diamond bolts do a nice job on armor though. I'm almost positive dragonfire are affected also; they are merely another special. The dak bow specials are 40% less damage under protect range. And they really aren't that great; I've got void and 95 range, and while I get a few good specs in, it's usually 8-8 on good armor.

[RayOxide]

Comp, I sorta have to agree with the Tip.It + Younger audience thing..

 

 

 

Anyway, Danno, what is your problem on range? In every way it's much more realistic than melee, which for one versing a freaking demon in real life (if there are any) with a little whip will let you die in less than 2 seconds even if you are Chuck Norris.

 

 

 

I honestly never liked range until I got members, found knives and darts. Then I loved it! Trust me, if you just use knives and darts until rune cbow (an mith/broad bolts) you'll find it as good as, or much better than melee. :thumbup:

[Lord_Shalaj]

^^

 

Nope, I said prayer.

 

 

 

Curse your preciseness :P

 

 

 

~Lord Shalaj

[compfreak847]

^^

 

Nah, I just try to stay within the realm of what I know.. when I get into to the 'what I think' or 'what I heard' realm, I tend to be wrong about something. And people will pick out one wrong thing and invalidate your entire post from it :P

[purewcnub]

Well this is not much of a rant but I thought people (like me) would like a place to post about our hates of the range skill, rangers, or anything within the TIF rules.

Fair enough.

 

 

 

 

I for one hate ranging. I hate that people with bows are fast. I mean does it make sence? I have a Battleaxe so all I have to do is lift it and then hit the dang thing! Rangers have to get the arrow in place, pull back, aim and fire. This does not apply to magic because in magic all you have to do is aim and do the magical thought thing.

Fair point - in real life, a bow takes a fair bit of time to prepare and shoot. Throwing knives can be fast, though. Then again, how many people do you know in real life that can cast magic spells?

 

Also I hate many rangers. Not all rangers some are nice people. But I hate the ones that think they can take 2 monsters at the same time going back and forth with each arrow. I have this experince like many at the moss giants on crandor. I think there should be a 10 second wait until you can switch monsters unless another one is atacking you.

I hate many meleers too. Taking 2 monsters is annoying, I agree. The 10 second wait shouldn't be in place though; it's kind of a 'deal with it' thing.

 

 

 

 

Another thing I do not like is the intelegance level of some rangers. They buy the nice range armour and then hide behind rocks. What!?!?!?!? Why buy it? It does not increase your range atack and it does not decrease it. Realy it is just more of a risk because if by some off chance you die you will have lost more items. Hey rangers guess what? Don't buy it! Or if you are a cooler ranger with a defence level where it and go fight the monster like a man!

 

Here's where your rant starts breaking down. Range armor does increase your range attack bonus - and why bother standing out where you can get hit if you don't need to? It's the same sort of illogical thinking against farcasting, complete with the usual retort of 'fight like a man'

 

 

 

 

The last thing I don't like is training range. It is absolutly no fun at all. Standing behind bars or across a stream hitting 1-4 for 40 levels is not my idea of fun. At under level 20 magic you can already hit 8+ and with melee atleast you see your max hit go up slowly but surly!

Melee and range have similar max hits with common training weapons, at least in the lower levels. And your max hit goes up slowly but 'surly' with range too? :shock:

 

 

 

 

So Please. Don't post if you are going to critasize this post because thats not this is for. I don't want people atacking people with other opinions. Start another post for that.

Actually, that is what this is for. Just as you are welcome to post detailing your dislike of range, I can post about why I think you are wrong.

 

 

 

 

What I do want from you is if you hate range blow off some steam about it! Say you hate ranging or rangers or whatever you hate about the skill! I do not want this to be set up into a campaign to get rid of the skill or a reform of it. I just want to see what people do not like about the skill!

That's not a thread, that's a cult. People are free to post their opinions, even if they differ from yours.

 

 

 

 

So have fun and remember mods will delete your post or ban you or lock this topic so stay within forum rules!

No worries there.

 

 

 

how many peoples' crossbow bolts shoot dragon fire? That being said, range is still a great and unique skill. It has much k0 potential in p2p

[compfreak847]

[hide=]

Well this is not much of a rant but I thought people (like me) would like a place to post about our hates of the range skill, rangers, or anything within the TIF rules.

Fair enough.

 

 

 

 

I for one hate ranging. I hate that people with bows are fast. I mean does it make sence? I have a Battleaxe so all I have to do is lift it and then hit the dang thing! Rangers have to get the arrow in place, pull back, aim and fire. This does not apply to magic because in magic all you have to do is aim and do the magical thought thing.

Fair point - in real life, a bow takes a fair bit of time to prepare and shoot. Throwing knives can be fast, though. Then again, how many people do you know in real life that can cast magic spells?

 

Also I hate many rangers. Not all rangers some are nice people. But I hate the ones that think they can take 2 monsters at the same time going back and forth with each arrow. I have this experince like many at the moss giants on crandor. I think there should be a 10 second wait until you can switch monsters unless another one is atacking you.

I hate many meleers too. Taking 2 monsters is annoying, I agree. The 10 second wait shouldn't be in place though; it's kind of a 'deal with it' thing.

 

 

 

 

Another thing I do not like is the intelegance level of some rangers. They buy the nice range armour and then hide behind rocks. What!?!?!?!? Why buy it? It does not increase your range atack and it does not decrease it. Realy it is just more of a risk because if by some off chance you die you will have lost more items. Hey rangers guess what? Don't buy it! Or if you are a cooler ranger with a defence level where it and go fight the monster like a man!

 

Here's where your rant starts breaking down. Range armor does increase your range attack bonus - and why bother standing out where you can get hit if you don't need to? It's the same sort of illogical thinking against farcasting, complete with the usual retort of 'fight like a man'

 

 

 

 

The last thing I don't like is training range. It is absolutly no fun at all. Standing behind bars or across a stream hitting 1-4 for 40 levels is not my idea of fun. At under level 20 magic you can already hit 8+ and with melee atleast you see your max hit go up slowly but surly!

Melee and range have similar max hits with common training weapons, at least in the lower levels. And your max hit goes up slowly but 'surly' with range too? :shock:

 

 

 

 

So Please. Don't post if you are going to critasize this post because thats not this is for. I don't want people atacking people with other opinions. Start another post for that.

Actually, that is what this is for. Just as you are welcome to post detailing your dislike of range, I can post about why I think you are wrong.

 

 

 

 

What I do want from you is if you hate range blow off some steam about it! Say you hate ranging or rangers or whatever you hate about the skill! I do not want this to be set up into a campaign to get rid of the skill or a reform of it. I just want to see what people do not like about the skill!

That's not a thread, that's a cult. People are free to post their opinions, even if they differ from yours.

 

 

 

 

So have fun and remember mods will delete your post or ban you or lock this topic so stay within forum rules!

No worries there.

[/hide]

 

 

 

how many peoples' crossbow bolts shoot dragon fire? That being said, range is still a great and unique skill. It has much k0 potential in p2p

 

Any rune crossbow. The only disadvantage is the cost of dragon bolts (e). And yes, the 60's make for a good KO.

[pureprayer]

What about when the ranger attack a monster and kills 60% of it and kills another one?