Marijuana, why isn't it legalized?

[venomai]

laura0077, I hope you don't mind if I answer to your points from the other thread.

 

 

 

Marijuana for recreational purposes will never become legal. Why? The risks out ways the benefits.

 

What risks are these, specifically? I'm aware of many risks that marijuana poses (possible link with gum disease, risk of psychological dependence, panic attacks, etc) but none that outweigh the benefits of removing its prohibition.

 

 

 

Marijuana for recreational use is already 'legal' in certain jurisdictions (e.g. the Netherlands). This is more of a decriminalization, though, which is what we should be aiming for. The last thing most of us want is a tobacco-like and commercialized industry, which seems inevitable in "full-blown legalization."

 

 

 

Then why isn't alcohol illegal? Cigarettes? The were established before democracy's were founded, and before evidence linked to health hazards on such a large scale as it is today. They have been sown into the economy. To be honest, they should just make both of these drugs illegal.

 

They've already tried that -- see the American prohibition of alcohol. During the prohibition, use and abuse skyrocketed, the substance was pushed further underground, organized crime flourished, significant tax revenue was lost and a slew of other issues surfaced. It wasn't long before the prohibition was abolished.

 

 

 

There are many powerful people who propose banning cigarettes, how do we convince such people to legalize marijuana?

 

Simple answer: marijuana is not tobacco. Only a fool would think otherwise.

 

 

 

As I've stated, I am not in favour of full-blown legalization of marijuana. One problem among those against the reform is that they often equate decriminalization to mean full legalization.

 

 

 

There are many well-confirmed medical benefits of marijuana, but it certainly is not a "cure-all" drug.

[Rahila]

i smoked for the first time on tuesday, and honestly, it wasnt that different of an experience than drinking.

 

 

 

I dont see why if it was regulated the same way as drinking it shouldnt be legal....(ex. cant smoke and drive, be high in public, etc.)

[Princess Viola]

Wanna know why marijuana is illegal in the US? I think during the 1930s marijuana farmers were hurting farmers who grew other things so they had to make it illegal to grow it. (Or was that weed)

[deloriagod]

Wanna know why marijuana is illegal in the US? I think during the 1930s marijuana farmers were hurting farmers who grew other things so they had to make it illegal to grow it. (Or was that weed)

 

 

 

No. As I said earlier in this thread:

 

 

 

It is illegal partially due to racism back in the 30's or 40's and hippies in the late 60's. The gov't didn't like the Mexican's using marijuana recreationally so they made it illegal as a way to ship them back to Mexico or put them in jail. Then the gov't got tired of the hippies protesting their war back in the 60's so the gov't started cracking down on marijuana (because it was technically illegal) as a way to get rid of the hippies. There's no good reason as to why marijuana is illegal.

[Princess Viola]

Wanna know why marijuana is illegal in the US? I think during the 1930s marijuana farmers were hurting farmers who grew other things so they had to make it illegal to grow it. (Or was that weed)

 

 

 

No. As I said earlier in this thread:

 

 

 

It is illegal partially due to racism back in the 30's or 40's and hippies in the late 60's. The gov't didn't like the Mexican's using marijuana recreationally so they made it illegal as a way to ship them back to Mexico or put them in jail. Then the gov't got tired of the hippies protesting their war back in the 60's so the gov't started cracking down on marijuana (because it was technically illegal) as a way to get rid of the hippies. There's no good reason as to why marijuana is illegal.

 

Ummm, no. Unless you were alive in the '30s, '40s, or '60s (which I hope note) then your "fact" is invalid. More over, you could ask my grandfather, grandmother, or any of my grandfather's brothers and sisters. All born between 1925 and 1933.

[deloriagod]

Wanna know why marijuana is illegal in the US? I think during the 1930s marijuana farmers were hurting farmers who grew other things so they had to make it illegal to grow it. (Or was that weed)

 

 

 

No. As I said earlier in this thread:

 

 

 

It is illegal partially due to racism back in the 30's or 40's and hippies in the late 60's. The gov't didn't like the Mexican's using marijuana recreationally so they made it illegal as a way to ship them back to Mexico or put them in jail. Then the gov't got tired of the hippies protesting their war back in the 60's so the gov't started cracking down on marijuana (because it was technically illegal) as a way to get rid of the hippies. There's no good reason as to why marijuana is illegal.

 

Ummm, no. Unless you were alive in the '30s, '40s, or '60s (which I hope note) then your "fact" is invalid. More over, you could ask my grandfather, grandmother, or any of my grandfather's brothers and sisters. All born between 1925 and 1933.

 

 

 

Yep, 'cause your family are 100% credible sources of information. So you're going to tell me that my information I found in documentaries is invalid when compared to information from your supposedly unbiased family? I call you and your family fools. I know you're only 12 years old but soon enough you'll see your family members are not as smart as they seem. Most everything they tell you is biased or includes a nice little twist in their favor. Get credible sources of information then report back. Otherwise, your "facts" are invalid.

[Elferin]

I'm not going to lie, I like to smoke weed.

 

 

 

And as far as I can tell its not as bad for you, even better than being drunk.

 

 

 

I party a lot, and if I'm really drunk I do more stupid [cabbage] than if I'm high. When you're high you can function and everything. I don't think marijuana is bad for you at all. I have heard that one joint is as bad for you as 20 cigarettes.. but don't see how this is possible.

 

 

 

There is no reason for pot not to be legalized.. the government just doesn't feel like legalizing it.

 

 

 

~Elfy~

[deloriagod]

I have heard that one joint is as bad for you as 20 cigarettes.. but don't see how this is possible.

 

 

 

I haven't seen the research on it, but smoking weed is worse for you than cigarettes. However you can also counter that weed is generally smoked less often and sometimes in smaller quantities than tobacco.

[stevepole]

Wanna know why marijuana is illegal in the US? I think during the 1930s marijuana farmers were hurting farmers who grew other things so they had to make it illegal to grow it. (Or was that weed)

 

 

 

No. As I said earlier in this thread:

 

 

 

It is illegal partially due to racism back in the 30's or 40's and hippies in the late 60's. The gov't didn't like the Mexican's using marijuana recreationally so they made it illegal as a way to ship them back to Mexico or put them in jail. Then the gov't got tired of the hippies protesting their war back in the 60's so the gov't started cracking down on marijuana (because it was technically illegal) as a way to get rid of the hippies. There's no good reason as to why marijuana is illegal.

 

Ummm, no. Unless you were alive in the '30s, '40s, or '60s (which I hope note) then your "fact" is invalid. More over, you could ask my grandfather, grandmother, or any of my grandfather's brothers and sisters. All born between 1925 and 1933.

 

 

 

Yep, 'cause your family are 100% credible sources of information. So you're going to tell me that my information I found in documentaries is invalid when compared to information from your supposedly unbiased family? I call you and your family fools. I know you're only 12 years old but soon enough you'll see your family members are not as smart as they seem. Most everything they tell you is biased or includes a nice little twist in their favor. Get credible sources of information then report back. Otherwise, your "facts" are invalid.

 

 

 

Well from the sounds of it too, he thinks marijuana and weed are two different drugs. For me that totally throws out anything the kid has to say on the subject.

 

 

 

i smoked for the first time on tuesday, and honestly, it wasnt that different of an experience than drinking.

 

 

 

I dont see why if it was regulated the same way as drinking it shouldnt be legal....(ex. cant smoke and drive, be high in public, etc.)

 

 

 

High in public, there are a ton of people high in public everyday. Majority of the time you don't even notice a single one, that would be pointless to enforce. Driving high I could understand.

[Quoi_Tu]

 

There are many powerful people who propose banning cigarettes, how do we convince such people to legalize marijuana?

 

Simple answer: marijuana is not tobacco. Only a fool would think otherwise.

 

 

 

The problem is we're dealing with fools. They want to ban cigarettes, which harm very few other people (if any) besides the smoker. What makes you think they would want marijuana legalized? Those Truth commercials (anti-cigarette) are already convincing people that smoking is evil and tobacco companies are the devil.

 

 

 

There are many well-confirmed medical benefits of marijuana, but it certainly is not a "cure-all" drug.

 

 

 

Such as?

[BlueLancer]

It is already legalised to an extent; If you're a patient. The US government has set up plenty of medical marijuana programs across various states: http://www.dhs.ca.gov/MMP/

 

 

 

That's a pretty big step forwards from the earlier propaganda about how dangerous marijuana is, it will cause you to kill your family and act violent, etc.

[Necrobean]

Pot, grass, dope, weed, homegrown, sinsemilla, Maui-wowie, thai sticks, joints, roaches, indica, Ganja, bud :lol: .

 

 

 

I live in Holland it's legal over here, I'm damned lucky.

[venomai]

The problem is we're dealing with fools.

 

If enough of the public is educated about the problem, and if enough of the public lobbies for reform, I suspect we will see change over time. Hell, we're already seeing change in some places. It won't be long before a new generation of politicians (those more knowledgeable about these issues) steps in.

 

 

 

Such as?

 

 

 

[hide=2002 Review of Literature]HIERARCHY OF THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS

 

 

 

To do justice to the scientific evidence with regard to different indications, a hierarchy of therapeutic effects can be devised.

 

 

 

In this overview no distinction will be made between isolated THC (dronabinol) and natural cannabis products. Indications for THC will be regarded as indications for cannabis and vice versa.

 

 

 

1. Established effect: Nausea and vomiting, anorexia, and weight loss.

 

 

 

2. Relatively well-confirmed effect: spasticity, painful conditions, especially neurogenic pain, movement disorders, asthma, glaucoma.

 

 

 

3. Less confirmed effect: allergies, inflammation, infection, epilepsy, depression, bipolar disorders, anxiety disorder, dependency and withdrawal.

 

 

 

4. Basic research stage: autoimmune disease, cancer, neuroprotection, fever, disorders of blood pressure.[/hide]

 

 

 

Source: http://www.medboardwatch.com/wb/pages/t ... ffects.php

 

 

 

More recent literature:

 

Cannabis and Alzheimer's Disease

 

Cannabis and Multiple Sclerosis

 

Cannabis and Tourette's Syndrome

 

Cannabis and Brain Tumours

 

 

 

Further reading:

 

http://www.norml.org//index.cfm?Group_ID=7002

 

http://www.canorml.org/prop/MMJIndications.htm

[user1991]

The problem is we're dealing with fools.

 

 

 

Venomai is right. We can say the same for any other subject that there has been a general opinion change over.

 

 

 

It starts out as a minority, and over the generations more people agree with it and eventually it is the majority and then we start to see real change.

 

 

 

In my opinion, weed will at least be decriminalized in the next 30-40 years, at the most.

 

 

 

People in the Netherlands are so lucky their government isn't a bunch of propaganda fiends..

[Necrobean]

The problem is we're dealing with fools.

 

 

 

Venomai is right. We can say the same for any other subject that there has been a general opinion change over.

 

 

 

It starts out as a minority, and over the generations more people agree with it and eventually it is the majority and then we start to see real change.

 

 

 

In my opinion, weed will at least be decriminalized in the next 30-40 years, at the most.

 

 

 

People in the Netherlands are so lucky their government isn't a bunch of propaganda fiends..

 

 

 

Don't start please.

 

 

 

Because of some 18 year old foreign dumb [bleep] possession of shrooms will soon be forbidden as well (sale was already forbidden for a while now).

 

 

 

Then about marijuana... The shops in Roosendaal (Which are close to me) and the cities around it are closing down next year. In february they are obliged to only give out 2 grams instead of the usual 5 grams because of "drug-tourists" (The shops average about 25K people per day, ~22.5K of them are either Belgians/French) and the Belgian government keeps being annoying about weed.

 

 

 

It's not going that good lately... But I'm positive that Holland will grow out of this soon. And then again I still have my brother ;)

 

 

 

-Renate.

[Quoi_Tu]

The problem is we're dealing with fools.

 

If enough of the public is educated about the problem, and if enough of the public lobbies for reform, I suspect we will see change over time. Hell, we're already seeing change in some places. It won't be long before a new generation of politicians (those more knowledgeable about these issues) steps in.

 

 

 

Such as?

 

 

 

[hide=2002 Review of Literature]HIERARCHY OF THERAPEUTIC EFFECTS

 

 

 

To do justice to the scientific evidence with regard to different indications, a hierarchy of therapeutic effects can be devised.

 

 

 

In this overview no distinction will be made between isolated THC (dronabinol) and natural cannabis products. Indications for THC will be regarded as indications for cannabis and vice versa.

 

 

 

1. Established effect: Nausea and vomiting, anorexia, and weight loss.

 

 

 

2. Relatively well-confirmed effect: spasticity, painful conditions, especially neurogenic pain, movement disorders, asthma, glaucoma.

 

 

 

3. Less confirmed effect: allergies, inflammation, infection, epilepsy, depression, bipolar disorders, anxiety disorder, dependency and withdrawal.

 

 

 

4. Basic research stage: autoimmune disease, cancer, neuroprotection, fever, disorders of blood pressure.[/hide]

 

 

 

Source: http://www.medboardwatch.com/wb/pages/t ... ffects.php

 

 

 

More recent literature:

 

Cannabis and Alzheimer's Disease

 

Cannabis and Multiple Sclerosis

 

Cannabis and Tourette's Syndrome

 

Cannabis and Brain Tumours

 

 

 

Further reading:

 

http://www.norml.org//index.cfm?Group_ID=7002

 

http://www.canorml.org/prop/MMJIndications.htm

 

 

 

Hopefully policy making will be more educated, but it could be awhile.

 

 

 

That's the medical stuff I wanted to see! When arguing marijuana legality, people should know things like this not just the "it's illegal because the government wants to control the masses and pharmeceutical companies will lose money" arguement. Not that that's directed at anyone in particular, but argue with evidence not conspiracy and misunderstanding of business.

 

 

 

Even given that, I say more research!

[Rahila]

i smoked for the first time on tuesday, and honestly, it wasnt that different of an experience than drinking.

 

 

 

I dont see why if it was regulated the same way as drinking it shouldnt be legal....(ex. cant smoke and drive, be high in public, etc.)

 

 

 

High in public, there are a ton of people high in public everyday. Majority of the time you don't even notice a single one, that would be pointless to enforce. Driving high I could understand.

 

 

 

no [cabbage] there are...i know that but when i say high in public i mean it similarly to the drunk in public offence...if you're so high that your being a bother to society then it would be a crime

[Elferin]

I have heard that one joint is as bad for you as 20 cigarettes.. but don't see how this is possible.

 

 

 

I haven't seen the research on it, but smoking weed is worse for you than cigarettes. However you can also counter that weed is generally smoked less often and sometimes in smaller quantities than tobacco.

 

 

 

That's true.. but if it is worse for you than cigarettes and the medical people or whatever are always trying to stop smoking cigarettes.. seems like a step backwards to be giving out marijuana prescriptions. But I do see your point.. I smoke cigarettes as well as weed, and weed is way less often like maybe once or twice a week.. not every day.

[justin_m23]

Its illegal because it has high potential to be used in a destructive manner. I'm sure governments around the world know the extent of their errors in legalizing alcohol and tobacco use, which is why they will be over-cautious when dealing with marijuana.

[venomai]

Its illegal because it has high potential to be used in a destructive manner. I'm sure governments around the world know the extent of their errors in legalizing alcohol and tobacco use, which is why they will be over-cautious when dealing with marijuana.

 

This is incorrect. I suggest you read up on your history...

 

 

 

I have heard that one joint is as bad for you as 20 cigarettes.. but don't see how this is possible.

 

 

 

I haven't seen the research on it, but smoking weed is worse for you than cigarettes. However you can also counter that weed is generally smoked less often and sometimes in smaller quantities than tobacco.

 

 

 

That's true.. but if it is worse for you than cigarettes and the medical people or whatever are always trying to stop smoking cigarettes.. seems like a step backwards to be giving out marijuana prescriptions. But I do see your point.. I smoke cigarettes as well as weed, and weed is way less often like maybe once or twice a week.. not every day.

 

Marijuana has not shown to be more harmful or more addicting than tobacco. The above thought is mostly false media hype. I'll post studies in a bit.

[venomai]

The links I promised...

 

 

 

Some critics exaggerate the dangers of marijuana smoking by fallaciously citing a study by Dr. Tashkin which found that daily pot smokers experienced a "mild but significant" increase in airflow resistance in the large airways greater than that seen in persons smoking 16 cigarettes per day.1 What they ignore is that the same study examined other, more important aspects of lung health, in which marijuana smokers did much better than tobacco smokers. Dr. Tashkin himself disavows the notion that one joint equals 16 cigarettes.

 

 

 

A more widely accepted estimate is that marijuana smokers consume four times as much carcinogenic tar as cigarettes smokers per weight smoked.2 This does not necessarily mean that one joint equals four cigarettes, since joints usually weigh less. In fact, the average joint has been estimated to contain 0.4 grams of pot, a bit less than one-half the weight of a cigarette, making one joint equal to two cigarettes (actually, joint sizes range from cigar-sized spliffs smoked by Rastas, to very fine sinsemilla joints weighing as little as 0.2 grams). It should be noted that there is no exact equivalency between tobacco and marijuana smoking, because they affect different parts of the respiratory tract differently: whereas tobacco tends to penetrate to the smaller, peripheral passageways of the lungs, pot tends to concentrate on the larger, central passageways.3 One consequence of this is that pot, unlike tobacco, does not appear to cause emphysema.

 

Source with citations:

 

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3475#3

 

 

 

Further details on Dr. Tashkin's findings:

 

http://www.drugscience.org/Petition/C2B.html

[fastortoise]

I don't even want to think about how I'd live my life without weed. I wouldn't be able to stand college or my exs without any Judz... scary

 

My bro will be able to prescribe me weed in 2 years, and I can keep it low 'til then. Smooth sailing from then on, i believe

 

:thumbup:

[Quoi_Tu]

I don't even want to think about how I'd live my life without weed. I wouldn't be able to stand college or my exs without any Judz... scary

 

My bro will be able to prescribe me weed in 2 years, and I can keep it low 'til then. Smooth sailing from then on, i believe

 

:thumbup:

 

 

 

Hi, my name is Charlie and I've been coffeeholic for 5 years now; I can't go a day without it.

 

 

 

Everyone has their addiction, some are just frowned upon more than others.

[Estonian dude]

Marijuana makes about 100 times stronger addiction then coffee. Plus, if you are coffeeholic, you can live some days in a row without coffee, but as a drug addict, you will get physical pains.

[Zierro]

Marijuana makes about 100 times stronger addiction then coffee. Plus, if you are coffeeholic, you can live some days in a row without coffee, but as a drug addict, you will get physical pains.

 

 

 

I heard you get physical withdrawals from not having caffeine though.