Should the US government bail out the Big 3?

[Lenticular_J]

Yep, and that's the exact problem for them.

 

 

 

Of course, eventually people will start buying new cars in a frenzy again.

[Lenticular_J]

They ship OUR jobs overseas, and then they come crawling back to US whenn things get screwy.

 

 

 

Let 'em die.

 

...What.

[I_am_Geed]

apparently the government didnt give the big 3 the bailout they wanted

 

 

 

their fault for coming to washington all on private jets

[jasignhagj]

only give it to them if they agree to make all cars 35mpg or better with in a year or 2 and 50mpg within the next 5-10 years. they also need to fire all management and create a government official to supervise them. also supporting a merger between ford and gm could help.

 

 

 

Edit -- they should also have to bring back 50% of the jobs they shipped overseas, but cut rediculiosly(sorry about spelling) high wages for the workers that do work here

[Quoi_Tu]

apparently the government didnt give the big 3 the bailout they wanted

 

 

 

their fault for coming to washington all on private jets

 

 

 

#-o I like how congress focused on this fact because they had nothing else to talk about. I found it quite unproductive of them, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised about that.

 

 

 

only give it to them if they agree to make all cars 35mpg or better with in a year or 2 and 50mpg within the next 5-10 years. they also need to fire all management and create a government official to supervise them. also supporting a merger between ford and gm could help.

 

 

 

Edit -- they should also have to bring back 50% of the jobs they shipped overseas, but cut rediculiosly(sorry about spelling) high wages for the workers that do work here

 

 

 

That efficiency goal is a good one, but not so soon. No US company has or is any where near meeting that goal. Not to mention, trucks will not meet those goals. In other words, they're unrealistic and will put unneeded burden on companies that are already circling the drain. Note: Mergers cost money.

 

 

 

Why should they bring back jobs from overseas? It would be costly and put people overseas out of work.

[Range_This11]

 

 

 

That efficiency goal is a good one, but not so soon. No US company has or is any where near meeting that goal. Not to mention, trucks will not meet those goals. In other words, they're unrealistic and will put unneeded burden on companies that are already circling the drain.

 

Are you really going to try to tell me that car companies in the 21st century that have been around for nearly 100 years don't have the technology to make an engine that doesn't get 50mpg?

[Quoi_Tu]

 

 

 

That efficiency goal is a good one, but not so soon. No US company has or is any where near meeting that goal. Not to mention, trucks will not meet those goals. In other words, they're unrealistic and will put unneeded burden on companies that are already circling the drain.

 

Are you really going to try to tell me that car companies in the 21st century that have been around for nearly 100 years don't have the technology to make an engine that doesn't get 50mpg?

 

 

 

Honda Insight is good one that gets over that. However, the fact that they have the technology is different than using it. First, they want to sell cars people will buy. Many Americans don't want "those tiny European tin cans" that get better mileage (although Ford is currently working on a marketing plan for bringing their European models over to the US). In other words, they want to make cars that meet demand. Second, if they did an entire switch to only 50 mpg cars, they would have to refit their factories entirely. It would cost them money that they don't have and are consequently asking for.

 

 

 

So what I'm saying is that they currently don't have the money to completely change their line-up. It should be noted that as much as I love Honda and Toyota, they make some pretty inefficient cars as well, yet, they are always over looked. For example, Honda's staple in compact fuel efficiency, the Civic, has been constantly getting bigger since the early 1990's. It's almost the same size as the Accord now!

[Cup Lion]

Quoi, really off-topic, but what happened to your old avatar. I liked it.

[Quoi_Tu]

I think it disappeared from the avatar update, so I thought I'd give Clint Eastwood a turn. Don't worry though, the schizoid face will be back!

[Ginger_Warrior]

Edit: BTW, if you want to know it's serious or not. People (about 8-10) in car plants are getting laid off every day.

 

 

 

Some won't even have work next week w/o pay.

 

It's obviously terrible for those individual families concerned, and I hope there's adequate cover for them without a source of income, but it's not actually that bad. I know that sounds stupid, but it's not.

 

 

 

In the 1980s/early 1990s here it was like hundreds of jobs each and every day, and the economic crisis then was far more placid than this one.

[Quoi_Tu]

Edit: BTW, if you want to know it's serious or not. People (about 8-10) in car plants are getting laid off every day.

 

 

 

Some won't even have work next week w/o pay.

 

It's obviously terrible for those individual families concerned, and I hope there's adequate cover for them without a source of income, but it's not actually that bad. I know that sounds stupid, but it's not.

 

 

 

In the 1980s/early 1990s here it was like hundreds of jobs each and every day, and the economic crisis then was far more placid than this one.

 

 

 

Yeah, this economic crisis isn't as bad (yet) as the one we had in the 1980s ('82 I think, I'm drawing a blank right now) or the one we had in the 1940s right after the war. Of course, no one ever hears about the terrible recession we went into after the war because war is good. :thumbup:

[magekillr]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/busine ... ay.cut.cnn

 

 

 

THIS is what our CEO's need to learn!

[blade995]

They should not get a bailout. If the big 3 can't adapt to an ever changing market they should fail. It's a free market, survival of the fittest and US car makers are just not competing. Even if they don't get the bailout, their not going to disappear, they will have to file chapter 11 and restructure. This will be good for GM, they need to slim their product lineup. GM has 8 different US car brands, think of all the money they could save by eliminating/or merging the bottom 2-3 of those with their other lines.

 

 

 

People are also saying that if the big 3 do fail there will be a huge loss of jobs. This would only be temporary, people still need cars, the Japanese and other auto makers would have to pick up the slack and hire more people, build new factories, and most likely buy the supplies from the distributors that were supplying GM and the others. A lot of people forget the fact that the Japanese and other foreign auto makers manufacture their cars in the US too.

[Sbrideau]

blade995, I don't think asian car makers will ever get their supplies from the same people that made the parts for GM, else their cars would start breaking as easily as an american car.

[blade995]

blade995, I don't think asian car makers will ever get their supplies from the same people that made the parts for GM, else their cars would start breaking as easily as an american car.

 

 

 

So your saying that the Japaneese auto makers that have factories in the US would rather ship their supplies from out of the country into the US when they can cut cost by not having to import them? Steel is steel, aluminum is aluminum. The quality has nothing to do with the supplies the big 3 are getting, it's how they're manufacturing their parts out of the supplies.

[Faux]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2008/11/02/lah.japan.ceo.pay.cut.cnn

 

 

 

THIS is what our CEO's need to learn!

 

 

 

thanks for posting that... wow. i seriously got goosebumps in some parts of this clip

[BlueLancer]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2008/11/02/lah.japan.ceo.pay.cut.cnn

 

 

 

THIS is what our CEO's need to learn!

 

 

 

thanks for posting that... wow. i seriously got goosebumps in some parts of this clip

 

 

 

That guy is a real man. Really, I don't think any american CEO can call themselves devoted to their company after seeing Haruka Nishimatsu. That's just stunning.

 

 

 

One similar man that comes to my mind is Warren Buffett. Although he does spend corporate funds on some lavish items, and by shares owned is considered richest man on Earth, he also refuses to withdraw giant, multi-million dollar salaries even though it's his company, and worth $270 billion dollars.

[Laura]

I don't think they should be bailed out. Largely because if they do, then there becomes a mind-set that none of the car companies can go out of business. "Oh no, we can't go out of business, we have a million people working for us. You wouldn't want your statistics to go even higher would you?" would become the court case for every bailout, and the judge along with the American people will eat it up. Perhaps if they invented something that creates demand, something that will cost us less to own, but costs a larger startup money. Take for example the Aptera, a $30,000 dollar car that makes it possible to get 300mpg. Now, Aptera Motors came out of nowhere, literally from nowhere in 2005, and Ford, one of the most long lived car industries has had cars that have 17-20mpg for decades. Why? They've lived off short term affordability and looks. There's nothing efficient about an F150. It's square design cuts though the air at 80mph like a parachute, so why are we wasting most of our energy on the road just fighting over wind resistance? Because the car dealers have lived under there early 1900 models for to long. They have put little effort into creating fuel efficiency that world wants to see. Sure we're getting hybrids and such, and then there's the Prius, but how expensive are those? And how much do the electric engines do for the average person? It's a marketing gimmick, and that's really all. Put an engine under a fancy little box of metal, with another electric engine and stick a label that says "Hybrid" on it, and people will eat it up. What was the current review on hybrids? I believe they said it would take 8 years to start paying off? I don't know about you, but I'm surely not going to switch in for a hybrid now, only to see my expenses came back in eight years, or at least not during this economic time.

 

 

 

What we, as people with money, want to see is results. We want to see efficiency over aesthetics, or a combination of the two. The car dealers never expected we'd want that, because the technology wasn't around at the time. But now that is it, they just want to further their already built line of trucks, SUVs, vans, etc. Hopefully, without the bailout they'll recognize this and cater to what their consumers have to say as well as build more efficient models. Lets hope that other newer brands, such as Aptera Motors, push the standards for these gas-guzzlers, since Ford, and the rest don't seem to be doing so.

 

 

 

Yeah, and I'm wondering how the CEO is making millions while the company suffers. Who needs that much money to support themselves anyways?

[Sbrideau]

blade995, I don't think asian car makers will ever get their supplies from the same people that made the parts for GM, else their cars would start breaking as easily as an american car.

 

 

 

So your saying that the Japaneese auto makers that have factories in the US would rather ship their supplies from out of the country into the US when they can cut cost by not having to import them? Steel is steel, aluminum is aluminum. The quality has nothing to do with the supplies the big 3 are getting, it's how they're manufacturing their parts out of the supplies.

 

 

 

It's not because they don't buy their supplies from the same suppliers that the parts come from outside :roll: . Some companies make better parts with more quality, although charge a bit more for most of them. Yes it can be the same metals, but some alloys have better quality than some others, just by the percentage of which metal there is.

[1_man_army]

blade995, I don't think asian car makers will ever get their supplies from the same people that made the parts for GM, else their cars would start breaking as easily as an american car.

 

 

 

So your saying that the Japaneese auto makers that have factories in the US would rather ship their supplies from out of the country into the US when they can cut cost by not having to import them? Steel is steel, aluminum is aluminum. The quality has nothing to do with the supplies the big 3 are getting, it's how they're manufacturing their parts out of the supplies.

 

 

 

The cost of the miners is a lot lower in other countries, you don't necessarily have the safety regulations abroad (and the cost of implementing the regulations) and there are other associated costs which are lower outside the US. The reduction of those costs abroad evidently is much greater than the cost of importing the materials.

[dangeresque]

I don't think they should be bailed out. Largely because if they do, then there becomes a mind-set that none of the car companies can go out of business. "Oh no, we can't go out of business, we have a million people working for us. You wouldn't want your statistics to go even higher would you?" would become the court case for every bailout, and the judge along with the American people will eat it up. Perhaps if they invented something that creates demand, something that will cost us less to own, but costs a larger startup money. Take for example the Aptera, a $30,000 dollar car that makes it possible to get 300mpg. Now, Aptera Motors came out of nowhere, literally from nowhere in 2005, and Ford, one of the most long lived car industries has had cars that have 17-20mpg for decades. Why? They've lived off short term affordability and looks. There's nothing efficient about an F150. It's square design cuts though the air at 80mph like a parachute, so why are we wasting most of our energy on the road just fighting over wind resistance? Because the car dealers have lived under there early 1900 models for to long. They have put little effort into creating fuel efficiency that world wants to see. Sure we're getting hybrids and such, and then there's the Prius, but how expensive are those? And how much do the electric engines do for the average person? It's a marketing gimmick, and that's really all. Put an engine under a fancy little box of metal, with another electric engine and stick a label that says "Hybrid" on it, and people will eat it up. What was the current review on hybrids? I believe they said it would take 8 years to start paying off? I don't know about you, but I'm surely not going to switch in for a hybrid now, only to see my expenses came back in eight years, or at least not during this economic time.

 

 

 

What we, as people with money, want to see is results. We want to see efficiency over aesthetics, or a combination of the two. The car dealers never expected we'd want that, because the technology wasn't around at the time. But now that is it, they just want to further their already built line of trucks, SUVs, vans, etc. Hopefully, without the bailout they'll recognize this and cater to what their consumers have to say as well as build more efficient models. Lets hope that other newer brands, such as Aptera Motors, push the standards for these gas-guzzlers, since Ford, and the rest don't seem to be doing so.

 

 

 

Yeah, and I'm wondering how the CEO is making millions while the company suffers. Who needs that much money to support themselves anyways?

 

Wisdom.

 

 

 

but I don't think CEO's taking a few million out of their check would help that much at the moment to be honest. And you have t oreward scucessful people or else they will cease to be successful and just go to a different company.

[Laura]

I don't think they should be bailed out. Largely because if they do, then there becomes a mind-set that none of the car companies can go out of business. "Oh no, we can't go out of business, we have a million people working for us. You wouldn't want your statistics to go even higher would you?" would become the court case for every bailout, and the judge along with the American people will eat it up. Perhaps if they invented something that creates demand, something that will cost us less to own, but costs a larger startup money. Take for example the Aptera, a $30,000 dollar car that makes it possible to get 300mpg. Now, Aptera Motors came out of nowhere, literally from nowhere in 2005, and Ford, one of the most long lived car industries has had cars that have 17-20mpg for decades. Why? They've lived off short term affordability and looks. There's nothing efficient about an F150. It's square design cuts though the air at 80mph like a parachute, so why are we wasting most of our energy on the road just fighting over wind resistance? Because the car dealers have lived under there early 1900 models for to long. They have put little effort into creating fuel efficiency that world wants to see. Sure we're getting hybrids and such, and then there's the Prius, but how expensive are those? And how much do the electric engines do for the average person? It's a marketing gimmick, and that's really all. Put an engine under a fancy little box of metal, with another electric engine and stick a label that says "Hybrid" on it, and people will eat it up. What was the current review on hybrids? I believe they said it would take 8 years to start paying off? I don't know about you, but I'm surely not going to switch in for a hybrid now, only to see my expenses came back in eight years, or at least not during this economic time.

 

 

 

What we, as people with money, want to see is results. We want to see efficiency over aesthetics, or a combination of the two. The car dealers never expected we'd want that, because the technology wasn't around at the time. But now that is it, they just want to further their already built line of trucks, SUVs, vans, etc. Hopefully, without the bailout they'll recognize this and cater to what their consumers have to say as well as build more efficient models. Lets hope that other newer brands, such as Aptera Motors, push the standards for these gas-guzzlers, since Ford, and the rest don't seem to be doing so.

 

 

 

Yeah, and I'm wondering how the CEO is making millions while the company suffers. Who needs that much money to support themselves anyways?

 

Wisdom.

 

 

 

but I don't think CEO's taking a few million out of their check would help that much at the moment to be honest. And you have t oreward scucessful people or else they will cease to be successful and just go to a different company.

 

They could hire like 20 more people a year cutting just a million out of their budget. Some make hundreds of millions.

[dangeresque]

I don't think they should be bailed out. Largely because if they do, then there becomes a mind-set that none of the car companies can go out of business. "Oh no, we can't go out of business, we have a million people working for us. You wouldn't want your statistics to go even higher would you?" would become the court case for every bailout, and the judge along with the American people will eat it up. Perhaps if they invented something that creates demand, something that will cost us less to own, but costs a larger startup money. Take for example the Aptera, a $30,000 dollar car that makes it possible to get 300mpg. Now, Aptera Motors came out of nowhere, literally from nowhere in 2005, and Ford, one of the most long lived car industries has had cars that have 17-20mpg for decades. Why? They've lived off short term affordability and looks. There's nothing efficient about an F150. It's square design cuts though the air at 80mph like a parachute, so why are we wasting most of our energy on the road just fighting over wind resistance? Because the car dealers have lived under there early 1900 models for to long. They have put little effort into creating fuel efficiency that world wants to see. Sure we're getting hybrids and such, and then there's the Prius, but how expensive are those? And how much do the electric engines do for the average person? It's a marketing gimmick, and that's really all. Put an engine under a fancy little box of metal, with another electric engine and stick a label that says "Hybrid" on it, and people will eat it up. What was the current review on hybrids? I believe they said it would take 8 years to start paying off? I don't know about you, but I'm surely not going to switch in for a hybrid now, only to see my expenses came back in eight years, or at least not during this economic time.

 

 

 

What we, as people with money, want to see is results. We want to see efficiency over aesthetics, or a combination of the two. The car dealers never expected we'd want that, because the technology wasn't around at the time. But now that is it, they just want to further their already built line of trucks, SUVs, vans, etc. Hopefully, without the bailout they'll recognize this and cater to what their consumers have to say as well as build more efficient models. Lets hope that other newer brands, such as Aptera Motors, push the standards for these gas-guzzlers, since Ford, and the rest don't seem to be doing so.

 

 

 

Yeah, and I'm wondering how the CEO is making millions while the company suffers. Who needs that much money to support themselves anyways?

 

Wisdom.

 

 

 

but I don't think CEO's taking a few million out of their check would help that much at the moment to be honest. And you have t oreward scucessful people or else they will cease to be successful and just go to a different company.

 

They could hire like 20 more people a year cutting just a million out of their budget. Some make hundreds of millions.

 

Yeah, but still they are the CEO, I mean if I was a CEO I would like it to show in the check book. And 20 people a year is like nothing in big companies tbh, especially at a time when it would be better for the companies to cut jobs.

[GGunitfan10]

[bLEEP] NO.

 

When my parents make a huge financial mistake(which they haven't) NOBODY BAILS THEM OUT. Seriously it's their own fault, and any way, the Kid population will end up paying all of this so everyone is gonna say Yes except for the Young people 18-40 but everyone else will be like SURE. Why don't we bump up our debt another trillion(Exaggerated...)?

[Quoi_Tu]

I don't think they should be bailed out. Largely because if they do, then there becomes a mind-set that none of the car companies can go out of business. "Oh no, we can't go out of business, we have a million people working for us. You wouldn't want your statistics to go even higher would you?" would become the court case for every bailout, and the judge along with the American people will eat it up.

 

There is no incentive for a company to want to be bailed out. It is still a bad thing in the long run considering the government is not giving them free money. Bail out = loan (in simple terms)

 

 

 

Perhaps if they invented something that creates demand, something that will cost us less to own, but costs a larger startup money. Take for example the Aptera, a $30,000 dollar car that makes it possible to get 300mpg.

 

I thought it was still rated at only 150mpg(300mpg concept design)? Either way, it is a horribly ugly car.

 

 

 

Now, Aptera Motors came out of nowhere, literally from nowhere in 2005, and Ford, one of the most long lived car industries has had cars that have 17-20mpg for decades. Why? They've lived off short term affordability and looks. There's nothing efficient about an F150. It's square design cuts though the air at 80mph like a parachute, so why are we wasting most of our energy on the road just fighting over wind resistance? Because the car dealers have lived under there early 1900 models for to long. They have put little effort into creating fuel efficiency that world wants to see.

 

People didn't seriously care about fuel efficiency until the 1970s(oil crisis). During that time, automakers responded by building more fuel efficient cars; redesigning some of the lumbering tanks of the early '60s. However, once the oil crisis was over and with the amazing economic prosperity of the 1990s people had money to spend, so they bought the latest new automobile, the SUV. Now we're in a much more energy conscious time and automakers are responding; however, Ford and GM (the truck and SUV overlords) are slow to switch because until about January earlier this year, their sales were still good. I can't speak for GM or Chrysler, but Ford is bringing over some of it's European designs to the American market, they just don't have a lot of cash to work with right now.

 

 

 

Sure we're getting hybrids and such, and then there's the Prius, but how expensive are those? And how much do the electric engines do for the average person? It's a marketing gimmick, and that's really all. Put an engine under a fancy little box of metal, with another electric engine and stick a label that says "Hybrid" on it, and people will eat it up. What was the current review on hybrids? I believe they said it would take 8 years to start paying off? I don't know about you, but I'm surely not going to switch in for a hybrid now, only to see my expenses came back in eight years, or at least not during this economic time.

 

Prius' start at ~$22,000, which is significantly cheaper than the Aptera model. If your looking for high fuel efficiency in a internal combustion auto, my favorite is the Loremo. It's stylish and sexy, but unfortunately not for the US, yet.

 

 

 

What we, as people with money, want to see is results. We want to see efficiency over aesthetics, or a combination of the two. The car dealers never expected we'd want that, because the technology wasn't around at the time. But now that is it, they just want to further their already built line of trucks, SUVs, vans, etc. Hopefully, without the bailout they'll recognize this and cater to what their consumers have to say as well as build more efficient models. Lets hope that other newer brands, such as Aptera Motors, push the standards for these gas-guzzlers, since Ford, and the rest don't seem to be doing so.

 

The problem a lot of people face when looking for fuel efficient cars is the storage and passenger capacity. The new popular choice among people looking for a combination of those three is the hatchback. My current favorite is the Honda Fit, but there are a growing number of options out there.