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Enlistment (and stuff)


dragoonson

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Hi everyone.Backstory a little here.

 

 

 

I'm,as you can see,a Singaporean,Chinese.My father is Peranakan (which I spelt wrong),so I have ~1/4 Malay blood,1/4 is simple Chinese.The other 1/2 is Anhui province.

 

 

 

Anyway,I'm 17,and that means I finished my first year of Junior College recently.Next year I will be completing my education (hopefully) , and at the end of the year will be enlisted in the army.Its compulsury.

 

 

 

Though I have been a Staff Sergeant (and consequently,am a CLT now) for my Secondary School's National Cadet Corps,I WILL be started off as a recruit once more.For three months I will be going through the worst days of my life in BMT,and another 21 months of...I dunno.After all that,I will have a PoP,and thus ORD (Operational-Ready Date).Following that,I may still be called back for a further ten years for (I assume) [cabbage]s and giggles,to ensure I am able to defend my colony country.

 

 

 

So anyway,I just wanted to know...What are your thoughts on army enlistment,especially in low-population countries.Should they be compulsory,or voluntary?What would an ideal term be?And what about mommy's boys who can't live without their parents?

 

 

 

I especially want answers from Returned.Carry on.

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Tough [cabbage] for those momma's boys. But a low-population nation should have a strong defense force, as a larger country seems more likely to attack them as an easy victory. But since normal workers are needed, have some kind of rotation; serve for this period, go back to your normal job and someone else takes your position for this period, switch off again.

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A lot of people I know from World of Warcraft are from Singapore and do the compulsory military service. They enjoy it and I really don't see what is wrong with it and I'd actually encourage more countries to do it. Learning different skills, meeting new people, all that kind of fun stuff. I just wish Australia had it.

 

 

 

The mommies boys that can't hack it? Make them cooks or something. At least make them learn something from their time spent.

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Second reason I want American citizenship - avoid the Taiwanese draft.

 

Motivation is an extremely important part of stuff like this. If someone isn't motivated to join the military, and is rather forced to, they'll slack off and be whiny - Think of the kids at school who don't want to be there, rather at home doing something else. On the other hand, if someone is willing to join, they'll perform much better - Think of the kids at school who love learning. (If it offers a good program that most people will enjoy, then I guess it'd be fine. If it's rough training and whatnot, no.)

 

For a country with a low population, you'll most likely have a problem. But if it hasn't been tried before, it should be voluntary, just to see what you get. If it's enough, leave it that way. If not, then I suppose the only answer would be conscription.

 

Though you still need those regular village people. (Are females part of this as well?) It's a ridiculous analogy, but it works - Try playing a strategy game (AoE, Civilization, etc.) with only building units. No villagers/workers. See where you get.

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Mandatory enlistment, outside of a wartime necessity, is a lot similar to communism in one regard: sounds good on paper, but SUCKS in implementation. If someone's being forced to do something they do NOT want to do, then they'll likely do a piss-poor job of it, regardless of what they're doing. Also, in the case of the military, those people will likely go AWOL in a combat situation, effectively crippling the military. Sometimes, bean counting does not fit into the military life. This is one of those times.

 

 

 

However, this doesn't mean that a lot of people shouldn't be in the military. On the contrary, I think a lot of people should at least experience a year or so of it. The way that this should be accomplished, though, is through rewards. One possible example: when you retire, you get a certain percentage of your taxes back, based on how long you served, plus other benefits (like GUARANTEED best medical care on the market when you need it). Of course, the last one might be hard to implement, but it shouldn't be impossible. All that would be needed is for the government involved to persuade one of these health care people to provide for their people. Think something like that would boost enlistment rates?

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I'm kind of torn, ideally, it should be forced, but more like the Reserves. But when I think about it, I just got a form from Selective Services, and it got me thinking: even though there is no draft, what would I do if I was forced to go in? I have manhy plans after high school, college, taking up a higher paying salary, starting a family. What would I do if I was drafted? Draft dodge? I wish they had substitutes like they did in the Civil War, I don't know if I could go to Iraq, or Afghanistan to die for people who don't give a [cabbage] about me. Does the government have the right to disrupt what I plan to do with my life? Constitutionally, yes; but morally? I don't think I could handle it, and it's not for everyone. But I mean, if it's a small country, then yes, it should be forced, or a reserves type thing, simply because the bigger countries would attack it constantly for easy victories, as stated earlier. But that begs the question, if it's an easy victory, as in the larger country will always win, why even join the army? Why have a military? Why not just assimilate into the bigger country, to save lives of those who will die, if the outcome is the same.

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Conscription is a violation of basic human sovereignty. Nobody should have to join the military if they don't want to.

 

/thread, tbh, except possibly in a desperate war-time situation. Otherwise, it just waters down the army.

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I don't believe in military conscription for many reasons but I do feel that young people should participate in some form of mandatory service.

 

 

 

I think it would benefit society to have young people (people leaving high school) do a mandatory period in which they do some sort of service for their community for say, a period of between 3-6 months. The service could include things that are commonly done in community service for misdemeanor crimes (grass cutting, street cleaning, charity work etc). I think this would help those doing the service as it would give them a better understanding of the issues in their communities and in society generally although I concede the idea wouldn't be too welcomed among the people that would have to do it. I also think it would help change the perception of young people, it would be good to see them doing good in their communities rather than everyone hearing the same old stories of how young people are "out of control."

 

 

 

I was reading that Obama is a voluntary plan for getting young people to do community work but I've still to familiarise myself with it to any great deal. I'm sure there are similar schemes abroad but I can't think of them at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I know I rambled a bit there, I'm just tired.

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Any job which involves the prospect of death should be 100% voluntarily. Just out of curiosity what is it the Singaporean army does, peace keeping and border control I assume due to it not having any civil / international wars going on.

 

 

 

I plan on joining the army after college, spending anywhere from the minimum 4 years till retirement age (65 I think). My plan would be to enlist as an Officer in the British army and if possible (and depending on the situation in Northern Ireland) to join the Irish battalion.

 

 

 

In certain circumstances as well conscription can lead to a badly performing army due to low moral levels and lack of enthusiasm / determination per average soldier.

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I don't believe in military conscription for many reasons but I do feel that young people should participate in some form of mandatory service.

 

I concur. Military is just the best way in my eyes. You're a lot more likely to learn something carrying a rifle and running while a drill sergeant screams at you than you are planting trees (in my opinion).

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I'm a pacifist, I'd rather go to jail than serve in the military in any sort of role. I don't care what the fighting is about, the thought of the loss of any human life by another's hand disturbs me.

 

You don't have to kill people if you're in the military, dontchaknow.

 

 

 

Probably more people inclined to go on a killing spree in prison than the military.

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I thought it over, and I decided that having a mandatory training program would be fine. Great, actually. As long as it's not something where you're whipped to do drills, it'd be a good learning experience for people. And toughen them up too.

 

As for actually participating in the military, to the point of fighting and all that, it's debatable. But in the case of a war, where you desperately need defenders, stick in the draft. At least you'll have a chance that way. And the drafted people would have participated in that training program, so they wouldn't be inexperienced or anything.

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I'm a pacifist, I'd rather go to jail than serve in the military in any sort of role. I don't care what the fighting is about, the thought of the loss of any human life by another's hand disturbs me.

 

You don't have to kill people if you're in the military, dontchaknow.

 

 

 

Probably more people inclined to go on a killing spree in prison than the military.

 

Yes (to the not killing people if you're in the military part), but the military by definition is a violent institution. If I were to take on a noncombat role, I would be supporting an institution which destroys lives.

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Since I have citizenship in Finland I got the conscription letter at age 17 and served a compulsory 6 months at 18 years old. I applied for coast guard duty, but that was unavailable in the brigade I was sent to & was enrolled as a sniper.

 

 

 

It's somewhat easy, after about 2 months of basic weapons and tactics training, they select the people who want higher ranks and to serve up to 12 months to recieve officer ranks of Sergeant, Lieutenant or Captain. I was eventually asked but declined fast.. I just wanted to finish it fast and held the equivalent non-commissioned rank of Sergeant First Class.

 

 

 

I'd suggest you go through with it, not only do you gain experience and grow as a person, they will definitely employ and feed you should the need arise later. A few years after, I got a UN peacekeepers job in Kosovo after completing a 20-week course, and at the time, not only was it interesting & I knew one of the local languages spoken, but due to a relative level of risk, the pay was phenomenal (dollar equivalent of about $4000/month tax free) for a six-month tour, 100% free health benefits/food/upkeep/additional training.

 

 

 

I don't believe in military conscription for many reasons but I do feel that young people should participate in some form of mandatory service.

 

 

 

I think it would benefit society to have young people (people leaving high school) do a mandatory period in which they do some sort of service for their community for say, a period of between 3-6 months. The service could include things that are commonly done in community service for misdemeanor crimes (grass cutting, street cleaning, charity work etc).

 

 

 

In Finland they have that system. When you're in the enlistment event a few months prior to serving, you're given a paper form on which you can opt-out of 6 months of military service, and do community service for 12 months. Since I have no experience, I wouldn't know what it entails, but I'd guess it involves taking care of old people, labour, charity work, etc. like you mentioned.

 

 

 

My secret ambition is to become a counter-terrorism sniper, but i doubt it will ever happen.

 

 

 

To be honest, I never had any use for the brief sniper training I recieved. UN, at least in Kosovo, practically offers no jobs to them, as it's a defensive role & scouting is done by satellite images mostly sent by americans. You just stand on guard duty with a rifle for 12 hours a day, it's not that glorious at all.

 

 

 

NATO has very high pay 6-12 month tours for Afghanistan, Congo, etc. for anti-terrorist operations.. For all kinds of personnel including snipers. But the risk of death is very real and you will need to pass much more rigorous training. I didn't even contemplate that option though, nor was it able because my country didn't offer that possibility (due to not being a member of NATO)

 

 

 

Also, video games may give you the wrong idea, but the main function of a sniper is gathering intelligence and send it to headquarters with a radio phone or requesting aerial support vehicles. Sounds boring if you put it that way, and it is. Your main function wont be shooting down 'terrorists'. You can go for days or weeks without nothing significant happening around you, and you just have to sit there & change turns with another guy.

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I'm a pacifist, I'd rather go to jail than serve in the military in any sort of role. I don't care what the fighting is about, the thought of the loss of any human life by another's hand disturbs me.

 

You don't have to kill people if you're in the military, dontchaknow.

 

 

 

Probably more people inclined to go on a killing spree in prison than the military.

 

Yes (to the not killing people if you're in the military part), but the military by definition is a violent institution. If I were to take on a noncombat role, I would be supporting an institution which destroys lives.

 

 

 

 

 

Does the place you live in have police? If so, do you pay taxes? If so, you support a violent institution. The military, when employed by a country which values the freedoms of others, by definition is an institution that helps lives. What destroys lives is watching innocent people suffer and doing nothing. This is true for all involved; the suffering for obvious reasons, the people commiting the atrocities (they condemn themselves for when people with a sense of justice find them), and the people watching and doing nothing. In my view, if you don't take action to prevent any act when you are able, you condone it. While some present uses of the military aren't exactly favored (the starting of that Iraq mess, most recently), it is nobody's mistake that the military does good things to try and outbalance it. This is what I support when I say I support the military, because the military will always act when people are suffering, when allowed to.

 

 

 

Oh, and penguingeek, that sounds a great deal like current US Military Basic Training. It would be a great benefit to have everybody go through it who can. That is a brilliant idea. Just one catch: what if someone is put into it who can't handle it to the end?

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I don't expect any future large-scale wars to be fought between a large percentage of the population. The next world war won't have large armies with tanks and infantry. The only need for the military is to do highly specialised operations that require professional soldiers (peacekeeping, mostly).

 

 

 

So, I see no need for military service.

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I'm a pacifist, I'd rather go to jail than serve in the military in any sort of role. I don't care what the fighting is about, the thought of the loss of any human life by another's hand disturbs me.

 

You don't have to kill people if you're in the military, dontchaknow.

 

 

 

Probably more people inclined to go on a killing spree in prison than the military.

 

Yes (to the not killing people if you're in the military part), but the military by definition is a violent institution. If I were to take on a noncombat role, I would be supporting an institution which destroys lives.

 

 

 

 

 

Does the place you live in have police? If so, do you pay taxes? If so, you support a violent institution. The military, when employed by a country which values the freedoms of others, by definition is an institution that helps lives. What destroys lives is watching innocent people suffer and doing nothing. This is true for all involved; the suffering for obvious reasons, the people commiting the atrocities (they condemn themselves for when people with a sense of justice find them), and the people watching and doing nothing. In my view, if you don't take action to prevent any act when you are able, you condone it. While some present uses of the military aren't exactly favored (the starting of that Iraq mess, most recently), it is nobody's mistake that the military does good things to try and outbalance it. This is what I support when I say I support the military, because the military will always act when people are suffering, when allowed to.

 

 

Really, my taxes are not under my control, as they are all automated. I have no choice in the matter. My employer automatically takes them out of my paycheck, everything I pay for the tax is already included in the price. Really, it's my employer paying my taxes, the seller giving my money to the government.

 

 

 

As for the rest of your argument, it's not so simple. Who's right is it to decide who's good and who's bad? You can't speak only from a US perspective. Most countries have their own militaries and use them to support their own causes. Everyone has reasons. I'm not saying everyone has the best intentions, but many do, at least in their view. Also, if noone had militaries, a military would not be needed in the first place. If everyone were to lay down their arms, atrocities would not happen. I'm not saying it's ever going to happen, but I'm an idealist, and it's what I do. As it stands, militaries only perpetuate the violence. I will have no part in it.

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I'm a pacifist, I'd rather go to jail than serve in the military in any sort of role. I don't care what the fighting is about, the thought of the loss of any human life by another's hand disturbs me.

 

You don't have to kill people if you're in the military, dontchaknow.

 

 

 

Probably more people inclined to go on a killing spree in prison than the military.

 

Yes (to the not killing people if you're in the military part), but the military by definition is a violent institution. If I were to take on a noncombat role, I would be supporting an institution which destroys lives.

 

 

 

 

 

Does the place you live in have police? If so, do you pay taxes? If so, you support a violent institution. The military, when employed by a country which values the freedoms of others, by definition is an institution that helps lives. What destroys lives is watching innocent people suffer and doing nothing. This is true for all involved; the suffering for obvious reasons, the people commiting the atrocities (they condemn themselves for when people with a sense of justice find them), and the people watching and doing nothing. In my view, if you don't take action to prevent any act when you are able, you condone it. While some present uses of the military aren't exactly favored (the starting of that Iraq mess, most recently), it is nobody's mistake that the military does good things to try and outbalance it. This is what I support when I say I support the military, because the military will always act when people are suffering, when allowed to.

 

 

Really, my taxes are not under my control, as they are all automated. I have no choice in the matter. My employer automatically takes them out of my paycheck, everything I pay for the tax is already included in the price. Really, it's my employer paying my taxes, the seller giving my money to the government.

 

 

 

As for the rest of your argument, it's not so simple. Who's right is it to decide who's good and who's bad? You can't speak only from a US perspective. Most countries have their own militaries and use them to support their own causes. Everyone has reasons. I'm not saying everyone has the best intentions, but many do, at least in their view. Also, if noone had militaries, a military would not be needed in the first place. If everyone were to lay down their arms, atrocities would not happen. I'm not saying it's ever going to happen, but I'm an idealist, and it's what I do. As it stands, militaries only perpetuate the violence. I will have no part in it.

 

 

 

 

 

To decide whose good or bad is very simple: who imposes suffering on those who do not want to for their own personal gain? And yes, most countries have their own militaries. And yes, if nobody had militaries, militaries would for the most part be unnecessary. However, those who shouldn't have one are the least likely to give theirs up. The reason for the rest of the countries to have one is simple: force equalization. This is explained further in the Gun Control thread, I think the specific post is on either page 3 or 4. And as to the perpetuating violence part, I have one simple thing to reply.

 

 

 

If an organised band of people willing to fight against those who would force others into Hell for their own profit doesn't exist, who will?

You never know which rabbit hole you jump into will lead to Wonderland. - Ember3579

Aku Soku Zan. - Shinsengumi

You wanna mess with me or my friends? Pick your poison.

If you have any complaints about me, please refer to this link. Your problems are important to me.

Don't talk smack if you're not willing to say it to the person's face. On the same line, if you're not willing to back up your opinions no matter what, your opinion may as well be nonexistent.

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i have to thank my parents for immigrating to america. if i were to be raised in my native country, i would be enlisted as young as 16.

 

 

 

same.

 

 

 

let me put it out there as simply as i can: War sucks and getting enlisted in the army sucks. i have great respect for my soldiers who r fighting hard to insure my freedoms etc but i would never want to be enlisted. personally i think smaller and weaker countries should have some age thing etc. because they need defenses but for other countries it should be voluntary. Again war sucks but someones gotta do it.

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