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02-February-2009 Behind The Scenes - February


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I'm with Bauke. Too many minigames. Seriously, how many more empty and abandoned minigames could we possibly want? I just looked up a list: there are 34 mini-games, not even including distractions and diversions. Enough already.

 

 

 

The fact is, we have too many useless minigames.

 

Crap like Vinespweeper, Gnome Restaurant and Ratpits are a complete waste.

 

 

 

Well thought out minigames such as Stealing Creation, Castle Wars, Barrows or Barbarian Assault with fun and/or have good rewards awesome.

 

 

 

I'm fine with Jagex putting there focus into well thought out minigames.

 

I'm fine with minigames if they offer equipment rewards or if they are meant to be played mostly for fun, but minigames offering overpowered exp rewards or being somehow by far the most efficient way of training a skill change the whole face of the game. Right now I'd need to play stealing creation for hammers to train smithing in the most efficient way (unless I find a way of making huge amounts of gp per hour). Pest control also used to be the best way to train some skills. Now I have the feeling that Slayer is about to be minigame-ized as well.

 

 

 

Minigames usually require a lot of your concentration when you play them. This means that my style of playing the game which involves a lot of watching videos and reading books while I play is being killed off by the way better exp from minigames compared to the traditional ways of training. If RS starts requiring 100% of my attention it loses one of the biggest reasons of why I play it instead of WoW or RTS games.

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Its funny that a lot of people boo hooing about slayer exp in the minigame arent even RSC players. You have no right to complain about additions making skills easier.

 

 

 

Ah, generalizations. I know what happened to my Thieving skill. I don't want that to happen to Slayer.

 

 

 

Remember me? :P

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Minigames have only a small connection with the whole Runescape world. It doesn't really fit in. Now that would be fine if Runescape had just a few minigames. But we have so many already... Next thing we'll be no more than passing through the Runescape world, travelling from one minigame to another. Training all our skills via minigames, only using the "real" Runescape world for a bit of questing.

 

 

 

Minigames should be an addition, not a main feature of the game. with the explosive increase in minigames, I feel the latter is becoming true.

 

 

 

My question is why? Mini games do not replace skills, they are typically just a different way to train them to keep players from getting bored. Most mini games (aside from SC or PC) give a slower way to train skills than the actual "grinding" of the skill itself.

 

 

 

My question to you is, why do you feel players should be forced to "grind" skills and not have an opportunity to have a different perspective which is fun in training. Since all mini games are optional, I see no issue with making a lot of them to satisfy different audiences. Remember typically different audiences play PC than the ones that are playing Trouble Brewing. Just because there is alot of mini games does not mean they all appeal to everyone. There are going to be some a few people only play, and some a few people dont want to play. Believe me or not, but people DO play gnome delivery, just not a lot. Ive seen people there playing it once in awhile when I pass by the grand tree for the odd clue scroll.

 

 

 

Moral of the story, mini games are a way for people to have FUN while sometimes gaining a little extra xp in the process. Not every mini game is going to appeal to everyone, which is why we have a lot of them. Since you are not obligated to play them to train your skills, I see no problem in Jagex widening the way you CAN gain xp in skills to add a bit of variety.

 

 

 

As for mini games that make skills faster, I see nothing wrong with that either. Heres why:

 

A skill is an aspect in a game. Runescape is a game. Getting a 99 is no more honorable than making an awesome rollercoaster on rollercoaster tycoon. I see no problem in making a skill easier or less grinding to appease the gameplay. Im paying 5$ a month to have FUN, I would like jagex to make ways to make the game fun, which usually ends up being mini games or quicker/different ways to train skills.

 

 

 

Oh and regarding the who wants more minigames?

 

Check the RSOF, there are thousands of posts in the minigame section. If you dont think people want more of them, go there and read them, then tell me otherwise.

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Sure, I agree with you. Never said I don't like the minigame concept. It's true that they give variety in training skills, stop the grinding and provide general fun.

 

 

 

That's not my concern. My concern is, that with a lot of minigames (we have a lot, and Jagex is introducing more) the ingame landscape will change. Like I stated before: minigamescape. It is starting to give me some sort of funorb feeling.

 

 

 

Perhaps it'd be advisable if Jagex removed some of the older, not popular minigames from Runescape. The newer minigames have much higher quality, thus could be replacing the old ones.

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Possibly the best BTS I've seen in my life... \' :thumbsup: =D> \' :thumbsup: =D> \' :thumbsup: =D> :thumbup:

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Possibly the best BTS I've seen in my life... \' :thumbsup: =D> \' :thumbsup: =D> \' :thumbsup: =D> :thumbup:

 

 

 

I'm guessing you were literally born yesterday then?

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Possibly the best BTS I've seen in my life... \' :thumbsup: =D> \' :thumbsup: =D> \' :thumbsup: =D> :thumbup:

 

 

 

I'm guessing you were literally born yesterday then?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm also thinking this is a great BTS, but unfortunately I haven't been dumped lately so I'm not depressed and I don't feel like crapping on the whole world. Sorry if I can't see the world through your brown glasses.

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It was a joke to what I believe what was Resonae making a sarcastic post about the BTS.

 

 

 

I'm actually in a great mood today. So good that not even you dweebs will be bugging me.

 

 

 

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Meh guess I should upgrade my sacarsm-meter a bit. Good thing for the mood Libs, like Forest Gump once said : **it happens!

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Yeah and I wasn't really dumped. She asked me if I would go with her, but I live in Florida and she wanted me to move to Try, New York.

 

 

 

She's a great girl and all, but I wasn't freezing off my testes for her. So she left.

 

 

 

I really want Jagex to release better stuff. It still feels like filler to me. I would rather keep the 2 decent to good updates a month than going back to the 4 crap ones with the occasional gem that they were doing in years previous to that.

 

 

 

I mean "A Sould's Bane." Seriously? Someone thought that was worth the time of coding? #-o

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Its funny that a lot of people boo hooing about slayer exp in the minigame arent even RSC players. You have no right to complain about additions making skills easier.

 

 

 

By your logic, you have no right to complain about "people boo hooing about slayer exp" because you are not one of them.

 

 

 

Also, according to your logic, citizens of a country have no right to vote for their leader unless they have already been the leader of a country.

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Its funny that a lot of people boo hooing about slayer exp in the minigame arent even RSC players. You have no right to complain about additions making skills easier.

 

 

 

By your logic, you have no right to complain about "people boo hooing about slayer exp" because you are not one of them.

 

 

 

Also, according to your logic, citizens of a country have no right to vote for their leader unless they have already been the leader of a country.

 

 

 

No, actually I think his point is that people complaing about it and have only played RS2 have little room to stand compared to someone who played RSC and remembers the horror that was trying to levels on there.

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I really want Jagex to release better stuff. It still feels like filler to me. I would rather keep the 2 decent to good updates a month than going back to the 4 crap ones with the occasional gem that they were doing in years previous to that.

 

 

 

I mean "A Sould's Bane." Seriously? Someone thought that was worth the time of coding? #-o

 

 

 

What exactly were the gems that were released during the 2 updates a month?

 

 

 

A very messed up stealing creation? PVP worlds that released the same month as the change from normal updates meaning they were developed with the old style? Achievement diaries that sucked? Christmas event that would have happened anyway? French? Hairstyles?

 

 

 

I will give them While Guthix Sleeps but 1) that "has had more time in development than Recipe for Disaster" and 2) I guess they have their "occasional gem" with fewer updates.

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less random events, as if there was too much events anyway

 

and a price check option

 

and a new way to train slayer and combat

 

 

 

overrated month but still these updates were expected and needed to happen, wont effect me much, only the people who care about combat and slayer.

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This month's BTS is great news.

 

 

 

The first good news is the fixing of random events. This has been about a year coming already, so it's not a surprise, but I'm glad that it's arriving at last. We've waited long enough. I have mixed feelings about the announcement that higher-level players will receive fewer randoms in the future--on the one hand, they can be annoying, but on the other hand, the main reason they're so annoying is because the rewards suck. Nobody likes wasting 3 minutes for a measly 500 gp from a mime event, but multiply that amount by 200 or so and those mazes become much more bearable.

 

 

 

The next bit of good news is what's not coming. Mobilizing Armies has been delayed. This is definitely a positive thing. Previous minigames, like Vinesweeper, Bounty Hunter, and Stealing Creation, suffered from insufficient development. Jagex is taking the time to do this one right, and that's a sign that they've learned something from past mistakes. I'm happy to wait longer to play new minigames if it means they'll be bug-free with non-crappy rewards right off the bat. In the past, we've had to wait for minigames to be fixed a couple weeks after they came out anyway.

 

 

 

The other important thing we aren't seeing this month is a new quest. This is also a good sign, because it indicates that Jagex is, again, taking their time on the 150th quest. As this is a pretty major milestone, I would expect that it has a pretty major quest to go along with it. If they didn't release a brand-new Grandmaster, I'd have expected them to delay the release of While Guthix Sleeps to coincide with the big 150.

 

 

 

Soul Wars doesn't have me as excited as the other announcements. I've noticed some slayers on this thread who are irate that it might be a faster way to train slayer than we already have. To them, I say that slayer is slow enough already--probably the slowest skill in the game--that making it a little faster, as Jagex did with the ZMI altar for runecrafting, would hardly detract from it as an achievement. Qeltar probably said it best when the release of Vinesweeper prompted complaints from high-level farmers.

 

What would you say to a 90-year-old man who told you that he thought it was unfair that we now have indoor plumbing and flush toilets, when he had to use an outhouse as a child? Youd probably think he was nuts, or just overly bitterafter all, who wouldnt want life to improve? Did he expect us to keep doing everything the hard way just because he did?

 

 

 

Well, it seems that some RuneScape players havent figured out that improvement and growth are also part of online life. Most recently, this has occurred with the Farming minigame Vinesweeper, with some high-level farmers complaining that it makes the skill too easy or that it is ruined.

 

 

 

Every time something new comes out that enables people to train a skill in a way thats more efficient or enjoyable, folks come crawling out of the woodwork, whining that because they had to spend hours on miserable grinding, so should everyone else. Well, Im sick and tired of the whole ordeal, and Ive decided to say a few words on the subject.

 

 

 

Those who complain when new minigames and features are released that grant new ways of earning XP are not very good students of history. Whatever the most recent change is gets all the attention, and people forget that nearly every skill has been improved and made easier to level over the years. We have a word for this, incidentally: we call it progress.

 

 

 

Heres just a quick look at the various skills and ways that they are now easier to train than they were years ago or when first released:

 

 

 

  • [*:vy17gcjz]Agility: New higher-level courses, and enhancers like summer pies.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Construction: This is still a relatively new skill, so it hasnt been enhanced too much yet. There have been a few quests granting Construction XP, and theres also the crystal saw.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Cooking: Cook X is the big one, along with new pies and potatoes, infinite Chefs Delight barrels in houses and more.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Crafting: Supplies are at much lower costs than they have been in the past, there are many more items that can be made, and ways to train like temple building in Mortton.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Firemaking: Several minigames now give Firemaking XP, sometimes in rather large quantities.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Fishing: One word: monkfish.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Fletching: Crossbow bolts provide new options, and the Make X feature lets people fletch while reading forums or doing other tasks on the PC.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Herblore: Herbs and many secondary ingredients are a fraction of their former costs or are much easier to get than in the past. Several minigames provide Herblore XP. The new Summoning familiar, the macaw, dramatically improves high-level herb yield.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Hunter: This is a relatively new skill, but new features are added to it regularly. The Impetuous Impulses minigame doesnt provide a lot of XP, but it gives XP along with some great item/monetary rewards.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Mining: Many new mines, some with far greater selections of rocks, have been added over the years.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Prayer: The Ectofuntus and especially gilded altars in houses have revolutionized this skill, making it a fraction of its former difficulty.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Runecrafting: Pouches and the Ourania altar make getting XP far easier than when the skill first came out.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Slayer: New slayer monsters, better weapons and especially the black mask.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Smithing: This skill now has a Make X option, and crossbow bolts give smiths a superior option for items that are always in demand.
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Thieving: Pyramid Plunderneed I say more?
     
     
     
    [*:vy17gcjz]Woodcutting: The dragon woodcutting axe, new tree types, extra locations, Farming patches for woodcutting and so on.

 

 

 

As for combat, the ways things have been made easier are too many to even list. Theres all sorts of new, high-hitting melee weapons like whips and godswords; improved crossbows and the dark bow for rangers; and mages have Ancients for power-training along with lower rune prices than ever before. Add to that dragon weapons and armor, Barrows gear, the Piety prayer, Lunar Magicks spellsI could go on and on. And of course, Pest Control. So should all the people who raised combat to high levels on RuneScape Classic now complain?

 

 

 

Whats particularly silly about the whole thing is that most of the people who are complaining about a particular new method of leveling, themselves benefited from earlier improvements that made skills easier for them. Even the people who are going on about Farming right nowmost of them likely benefited from earlier improvements to this skill.

 

 

 

Did any of them grow herbs in My Arms disease-free patch? Or use a pair of enchanted secateurs to improve crop yield and XP? How many of these players got the benefit of large stocks of cheap pineapples in Catherby for making supercompostwhich have now been removed from the game?

 

 

 

Change is inevitable, and usually welcome. Begrudging better methods for newer players when you yourself benefited from earlier improvements is hypocritical.

 

Anyway, I hope this new minigame will provide a worthy alternative to traditional slayer training, and perhaps additional incentives to train slayer as well. Most importantly, it should give worthy rewards in order to keep from descending into irrelevancy, as minigames like Tai Bwo Wannai Cleanup, Gnomeball, and Gnome Restaurant have done. It's not enough just to be fun. I think the Rogue's Den is rather entertaining; it's just that there's no meaningful reward for it, so it feels like a waste. Hopefully Soul Wars will have gotten the same kind of development time that Mobilizing Armies is getting, and Jagex won't be afraid to push the rewards a little.

 

 

 

This month looks quite good - just some things everybody wants.

 

I'm worried about the slayer update. The minigame itself sounds fun, but if it gives slayer xp, a lot of people will be pissed. Including me. Or, if it must give xp, give it a small amount. Slayer should stay a respectable skill.

 

 

 

But if you got experience with Jagex - Slayer will be nerfed, I fear.

 

 

 

If they nerf slayer I fear that the quote in your signature will become a reality. :shock:

 

 

 

I'm looking forward to the random update though(hopes for 2nd set of all random clothing.. bank placeholders please?)

 

Faster slayer experience would not be a nerf...what are you talking about? That would be the exact opposite of a nerf. #-o

 

 

 

Yes, I agree. Faster is better. The fact that there is no way to make a profit in most skills is great. The fact that some people worked for years to get high levels only to see their accomplishments and profit potential ruined is also a major advance. In fact, I think runecarafting is just too hard to train as well. They should just create a random event that gives you 500,000 nature runes and 13,035,000 experience in a lamp. That would be a major step forward since it is faster.

 

 

 

IMO DIFFERENT is fine, but FASTER isnt. Jagex could insert faster ways of doing things at any time. They could double the exp rate of doing any given thing at any given time. That is not a change or innovation to gameplay.They could give 1,000,000 exp for killing one Bloodveld, that would not make it a innovation to gameplay.

 

 

 

If jagex followed your path, it would also have the unfortunate side effect of getting rid of that little "slayer" aspect of Slayer. But really, what an irrelevant concept!

 

 

 

Minigames are just a very poorly designed way to cover the mistake of skillcapes. Also becasue of the failure of the Grand Exchange to stop unbalanced "junk" trades, they need a way for people to gain exp without creating junk, so they made a bunch of junk minigames.

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Minigames are just a very poorly designed way to cover the mistake of skillcapes.

 

 

 

What? In what universe does this statement even remotely make sense?

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Minigames are just a very poorly designed way to cover the mistake of skillcapes.

 

 

 

What? In what universe does this statement even remotely make sense?

 

 

 

They provide a method of raising exp at a decent rate without the large costs that skillcapes have created in many skills.

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Minigames are just a very poorly designed way to cover the mistake of skillcapes.

 

 

 

What? In what universe does this statement even remotely make sense?

 

 

 

They provide a method of raising exp at a decent rate without the large costs that skillcapes have created in many skills.

 

 

 

What do you mean by large cost? Before skillcapes, getting a 99 would include a cost, please point out what's changed. Minigames are an alternative to normal training. Some minigames provide better rates, some others just rewards.

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Follow the progress of top players and my weekly updates here: 200M in all Skills

Latest Milestones Chart update : page 602

Latest top 15 update : page 602

6 slowest skills chart : page 563

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Yes, I agree. Faster is better. The fact that there is no way to make a profit in most skills is great. The fact that some people worked for years to get high levels only to see their accomplishments and profit potential ruined is also a major advance. In fact, I think runecarafting is just too hard to train as well. They should just create a random event that gives you 500,000 nature runes and 13,035,000 experience in a lamp. That would be a major step forward since it is faster.

 

 

 

IMO DIFFERENT is fine, but FASTER isnt. Jagex could insert faster ways of doing things at any time. They could double the exp rate of doing any given thing at any given time. That is not a change or innovation to gameplay.They could give 1,000,000 exp for killing one Bloodveld, that would not make it a innovation to gameplay.

 

 

 

If jagex followed your path, it would also have the unfortunate side effect of getting rid of that little "slayer" aspect of Slayer. But really, what an irrelevant concept!

 

 

 

Minigames are just a very poorly designed way to cover the mistake of skillcapes. Also becasue of the failure of the Grand Exchange to stop unbalanced "junk" trades, they need a way for people to gain exp without creating junk, so they made a bunch of junk minigames.

 

Wow, nice interpretation skills.

 

 

 

Did it ever once occur to you that maybe, just maybe, JaGex sat down and came to the realization that not everyone enjoys mindlessly clicking in order to advance in the game? They have slowly but surely been trying to reduce the mindless clicking, and add more enjoyable clicking into the game.

 

 

 

For all the people still proclaiming "They better not ruin slayer!" just take a look around and pure common sense will tell you that sooner or later there will come a time where slayer is faster to train than it is now. They've increased the rate of most if not all of the skills throughout this version of the game (comparing it to rsc is another story). Honestly, tell me a skill that hasn't been increased in speed since rs2 came out.

 

 

 

So no, handing out 99s in a lamp is not progress - but allowing players to spend less time grinding and more time enjoying IS progress, especially if they introduce new content that is more/equally enjoyable.

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faster isnt always better. like others have said, why do we play this game? if we're not playing it to have fun. i dont think everyone's definition of fun is the same but, playing games like gnome cooking is actually fun to me; it doesnt have to be fun to you; but i like it and i'm glad it's in the game. you get cooking xp for making the items; it's not all about xp really; you could buy raw sharks and train your cooking if you wanted a fast way to level but it's not the same obviously.

 

 

 

i read on the forums complaints like "we cant make any money with herblore" then you are a not a very good player, just a fact. if you were a good player you would be able to make use of ingame features that would enable you to profit from herblore but you dont so instead of taking the blame for not doing that you blame the game for your own lack of resourcefullness.

 

 

 

minigames rule. it passes the time much quicker and those old ways of training a skill are still there. train mage in fog or train on spiders which is more fun? the answer may be different to different people but including another option is good for the person that would enjoy training mage in fog. same goes with a lot of the new content they've been releasing. it's another option for training; it doesnt replace or remove the old way it allows for more options. simple.

 

 

 

about the bts i'm mainly thrilled to read that finally they're doing something about the random events and that's great news to me. rest is gravy i guess. remember that just because you dont like something doesnt mean other people should not like something too; some people like different things; and my view of a successful minigame is is it fun? do i enjoy it? if i answer yes to those; that's the main thing everything else on top of it is gravy and bonus. this month looks good for updates and i'm actually excited now about the year of polishing they're doing AND the new game content they are planning to add.

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Since the BTS was released on Monday, I wonder when Soul Wars (first update this month) will be released. Will it be tomorrow or next Tuesday?

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Since the BTS was released on Monday, I wonder when Soul Wars (first update this month) will be released. Will it be tomorrow or next Tuesday?

 

or one of the other 3 days that jagex releases updates this week :roll:

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