Good nastalgia or good ol' BS?

[danjamin23]

IMO, Skillcapes ruined RS.

[TheDayRsDied]

IMO, Skillcapes ruined RS.

 

 

 

No profits, no balance, no nothing. The game rides entirely on demand for skillcapes.

[hihihi727]

Lol people are saying home tele is ruining Runescape?

 

Name an update that people DON'T say is ruining RS...

 

 

 

Yeah, I honestly can't think of any major update that SOMEONE didn't whine about.

 

 

 

Lol, like the time you whined about F2P getting RSOF

 

Making a single, accurate post based on solid evidence that maturely discussed the pros and cons of the direction Jagex was moving in doesn't really count as "a feeble, peevish complaint" (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/whine). I'm still allowed to disagree when I think there is reason to, even if it means arguing against the whole of TIF. And winning.

 

 

 

You should have seen my inbox the day after that post, here's a sample of the trash thrown my way: "wow ur such a nerd, gtfo tif no one here wants u. idc if u report this cuz i made this acc just to send this so idc if it gets banned. get a life loser grow a pair and stop acting like a little kid". I had to clear out my inbox twice in 3 days, as I kept hitting the message limit.

 

 

 

But I still won :twisted:

 

 

 

 

i always get giddy when compfreak is disproved or agrees with me. i feel like such a tool but w/e idc.

 

I don't recall either of the two happening on this thread :?

 

 

 

You could say the same thing to people wanting the wilderness back or whatever other update they didn't want. And sorry, you didn't "maturely" discuss anything. You're whining about people whining yet thats incredibly stupid because anyone with half a brain cell could realise that you whine more than the entire TIF combined. And wow i can't believe this i think you actually used to be nice but i must conclude from your post you are an arrogant jerk. So there goes your argument. Wtf? "Aruging against the whole of TIF. And winning." How exactly are you winning? Or is your huge ego unable to get the fact that you are the exact same person you always whine about and except for using fancy words and posting links to wikipedia and dictionary.com your arguments don't actually make sense and are the exact opposite from "mature" in otherwords you flame random people and your not really discussing anything because its not related to the topic and the only thing you win at is being able to succesfully turn a topic into a flame war?

[compfreak847]

 

You could say the same thing to people wanting the wilderness back or whatever other update they didn't want. And sorry, you didn't "maturely" discuss anything. You're whining about people whining yet thats incredibly stupid because anyone with half a brain cell could realise that you whine more than the entire TIF combined. And wow i can't believe this i think you actually used to be nice but i must conclude from your post you are an arrogant jerk. So there goes your argument. Wtf? "Aruging against the whole of TIF. And winning." How exactly are you winning? Or is your huge ego unable to get the fact that you are the exact same person you always whine about and except for using fancy words and posting links to wikipedia and dictionary.com your arguments don't actually make sense and are the exact opposite from "mature" in otherwords you flame random people and your not really discussing anything because its not related to the topic and the only thing you win at is being able to succesfully turn a topic into a flame war?

 

You seem to be slightly misinformed about my posts, perhaps you read some other poster's post and mistook it for mine.

 

 

 

I shall restate my post for those of you who missed it: I said I didn't like the direction Jagex was taking of giving FTP updates that wouldn't encourage them to upgrade to members, paid for out of paying members pockets.

 

 

 

Since that was an opinion, the only thing TIF was against was that PTPers had to pay for FTP, but I conclusively proved, using Jagex financial records, that the advertising revenue associated with FTPers did not nearly cover the server costs, and the only ROI produced was in the form of member subscriptions; thusly any update not moving in that direction was simply donating my cash to free players - a bad business model. It was a single post stated in a mature, non flamey manner and it earned me all sorts of poorly written flaming from the majority of TIF, all of which I countered in an adult manner with the facts, conclusively proving my point and indisputably backing my opinion - hence the win.

[yanksrule]

hmmm..... f2p don't deserve the forums. quite honestly it reminds me of illegal immigration if you could believe that. i pay to live in a community, work hard, and earn my beneifts and some illegal just gets all of that without paying a dime? :shame: no.

[Dayking321]

hmmm..... f2p don't deserve the forums. quite honestly it reminds me of illegal immigration if you could believe that. i pay to live in a community, work hard, and earn my beneifts and some illegal just gets all of that without paying a dime? :shame: no.

 

[hide=OT quote]

I feel some users here might be interested in reading a response I posted to a discouraged F2Per, who like many on the forums may have been browbeaten into believing they don't have a place on the forums, and sadly might not use the chance to improve things RuneScape which Jagex wanted them to do.

 

 

 

I'd like to say that isn't the case. The argument that F2P doesn't pay for itself, let alone wouldn't pay it's way handsomely on the RSOF is a misleading one I've attempted to debunk here:

 

* Forum Feedback > Avoid Spam by F2P

 

* Quick find code: 28-29-75-58659538

 

The claim that F2P isn't paying it's way is likely false.

 

 

 

Anyone who reads the business news knows that the channel advertising for Jagex websites is very large source of income for both RuneScape and Fun Orb.

 

 

 

While it used to be Wild Tangent, I'm not sure what the current channel advertiser is now. Who ever has the deal to supply advertising for Jagex's Free-Players is huge news in the online gaming industry news sites. It's no small pennies, and in fact might qualify as big bikkies in the online advertising world.

 

 

 

Free-Players do pay by proxy, when viewing ads on free worlds, which uses their bandwidth and their system resources. While that isn't a significant amount for the end-user, all the users viewing that advertising is enough to pay for the the services used by an estimated 5 Million Free-to-Play users, including the servers, hosting/bandwidth as well as the costs of support staff; and if business articles regarding this are correct, enough to give Jagex a quite tidy profit from running the F2P game too.

 

 

 

Jagex isn't silly, and it would've factored those costs into bringing F2P onto the RuneScape forums as well; so as a Member I simply don't buy the argument that I'm paying for free-users. If anything, in these troubled economic times the Free-to-Play side of RuneScape is set to expand as some Members find that they need to cut costs, which might mean their RuneScape subscription side is the part of the game that isn't growing as usual. The Free-to-Play model is gaining a lot of attention in the MMO industry, which is why a number now are trying to follow in Jagex's footsteps by releasing games using a similar model. So to claim it's actually costing Members money is very likely not the case at all.

 

 

 

So the argument used that Members are paying for services F2P get for 'free' is a disingenuous one in my view (i.e. it's not telling the truth).

 

 

 

This to my mind is why allowing F2P access to the forums isn't in fact taking away from Members.

 

 

 

While I'm not 100% on the details, the fact is that the channel advertising deal with Jagex *is* a substantial one, and in these hard economic times when fewer might be likely to find the money for an online game in increasingly tight budgets, the F2P side of RuneScape could become an even bigger earner for Jagex.

 

 

 

Sadly, there are Members on the forums who don't read the MMO Industry News, and aren't aware of just how valuable the F2P player is to Jagex, and that's more than likely why Jagex has added forum access given Jagex wants to promote and improve it's free game.

 

 

 

Please don't let the short-sightedness of a few disgruntled members, stunt the game, and as a result potentially harm both the growth of F2P and Member games.

[/hide]

 

 

 

For the record, I'm P2P.

[compfreak847]

hmmm..... f2p don't deserve the forums. quite honestly it reminds me of illegal immigration if you could believe that. i pay to live in a community, work hard, and earn my beneifts and some illegal just gets all of that without paying a dime? :shame: no.

 

[hide=OT quote]

I feel some users here might be interested in reading a response I posted to a discouraged F2Per, who like many on the forums may have been browbeaten into believing they don't have a place on the forums, and sadly might not use the chance to improve things RuneScape which Jagex wanted them to do.

 

 

 

I'd like to say that isn't the case. The argument that F2P doesn't pay for itself, let alone wouldn't pay it's way handsomely on the RSOF is a misleading one I've attempted to debunk here:

 

* Forum Feedback > Avoid Spam by F2P

 

* Quick find code: 28-29-75-58659538

 

The claim that F2P isn't paying it's way is likely false.

 

 

 

Anyone who reads the business news knows that the channel advertising for Jagex websites is very large source of income for both RuneScape and Fun Orb.

 

 

 

While it used to be Wild Tangent, I'm not sure what the current channel advertiser is now. Who ever has the deal to supply advertising for Jagex's Free-Players is huge news in the online gaming industry news sites. It's no small pennies, and in fact might qualify as big bikkies in the online advertising world.

 

 

 

Free-Players do pay by proxy, when viewing ads on free worlds, which uses their bandwidth and their system resources. While that isn't a significant amount for the end-user, all the users viewing that advertising is enough to pay for the the services used by an estimated 5 Million Free-to-Play users, including the servers, hosting/bandwidth as well as the costs of support staff; and if business articles regarding this are correct, enough to give Jagex a quite tidy profit from running the F2P game too.

 

 

 

Jagex isn't silly, and it would've factored those costs into bringing F2P onto the RuneScape forums as well; so as a Member I simply don't buy the argument that I'm paying for free-users. If anything, in these troubled economic times the Free-to-Play side of RuneScape is set to expand as some Members find that they need to cut costs, which might mean their RuneScape subscription side is the part of the game that isn't growing as usual. The Free-to-Play model is gaining a lot of attention in the MMO industry, which is why a number now are trying to follow in Jagex's footsteps by releasing games using a similar model. So to claim it's actually costing Members money is very likely not the case at all.

 

 

 

So the argument used that Members are paying for services F2P get for 'free' is a disingenuous one in my view (i.e. it's not telling the truth).

 

 

 

This to my mind is why allowing F2P access to the forums isn't in fact taking away from Members.

 

 

 

While I'm not 100% on the details, the fact is that the channel advertising deal with Jagex *is* a substantial one, and in these hard economic times when fewer might be likely to find the money for an online game in increasingly tight budgets, the F2P side of RuneScape could become an even bigger earner for Jagex.

 

 

 

Sadly, there are Members on the forums who don't read the MMO Industry News, and aren't aware of just how valuable the F2P player is to Jagex, and that's more than likely why Jagex has added forum access given Jagex wants to promote and improve it's free game.

 

 

 

Please don't let the short-sightedness of a few disgruntled members, stunt the game, and as a result potentially harm both the growth of F2P and Member games.

[/hide]

 

 

 

For the record, I'm P2P.

 

Way to completely fail to read the thread before posting. Take a look at these figures:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'Nuff said. Had you read the thread, you would have seen these long ago -.-

[Gmesh]

I think high level f2p deserved the forums. Its FORUMS. Big deal.

[compfreak847]

I think high level f2p deserved the forums. Its FORUMS. Big deal.

 

May I ask what they've done to "deserve" it? What makes then so special that it's worth withholding updates from us and giving them our money for no good reason?

 

 

 

Look, if I want to help the needy, I'll donate to a charity. I'm paying Jagex to give me updates, not split the money up among 1 million customers and 5 million freeloaders.

[Gmesh]

I think high level f2p deserved the forums. Its FORUMS. Big deal.

 

May I ask what they've done to "deserve" it? What makes then so special that it's worth withholding updates from us and giving them our money for no good reason?

 

 

 

Look, if I want to help the needy, I'll donate to a charity. I'm paying Jagex to give me updates, not split the money up among 1 million customers and 5 million freeloaders.

 

 

 

The only problem I have with it is I think there should be a higher exp requirement. Other than that they deserve it because they put the time in to become high level. You have no proof that jagex opening forums lessens our updates, that's a completely ignorant assumption. :shame:

 

 

 

Don't get on your high horse just because you pay for a game. Having money to spend IRL doesn't make you special. Sorry.

[compfreak847]

The only problem I have with it is I think there should be a higher exp requirement. Other than that they deserve it because they put the time in to become high level. You have no proof that jagex opening forums lessens our updates, that's a completely ignorant assumption. :shame:

 

A completely ignorant assumption? Are you really that clueless? How do you think they pay for the servers and bandwidth, magical fairies and pixie dust?

 

 

 

Don't get on your high horse just because you pay for a game. Having money to spend IRL doesn't make you special. Sorry.

 

Do I recall saying it makes me special? No. What I DO recall saying is that, because I pay for updates, I should get them. It's like buying a toothpaste tube from walmart, then having them distribute 1 capful of toothpaste to everyone in the store, including you, for your $2.79. I'm paying to get updates, not to have my money donated to several million people. If I want to do that, I'll donate to a charity where it will go to real needy people. (Which I do, I tithe 10% of my income through my church. So don't bother trying to argue that line of reasoning).

[Gmesh]

A completely ignorant assumption? Are you really that clueless? How do you think they pay for the servers and bandwidth, magical fairies and pixie dust?

 

 

 

 

 

Do I recall saying it makes me special? No. What I DO recall saying is that, because I pay for updates, I should get them. It's like buying a toothpaste tube from walmart, then having them distribute 1 capful of toothpaste to everyone in the store, including you, for your $2.79. I'm paying to get updates, not to have my money donated to several million people. If I want to do that, I'll donate to a charity where it will go to real needy people. (Which I do, I tithe 10% of my income through my church. So don't bother trying to argue that line of reasoning).

 

 

 

So because f2p gets a members ability they automatically lose so much money that it drastically effects us? Sorry but no. That's just another of your assumptions. :shame:

 

 

 

Did I say you said that NO. You don't have to. You act like it. They've gotten a members ability in what? The past 5 years? Sorry but getting forums wouldn't keep most people in f2p and it obviously hasn't kept you. *cough* hypocrite *cough* :roll:

[compfreak847]

 

So because f2p gets a members ability they automatically lose so much money that it drastically effects us? Sorry but no. That's just another of your assumptions. :shame:

 

 

Could you point out the word 'drastically' in my post? I don't remember seeing it, either I'm forgetting what I wrote or your making crap up. If it's my fault, quote me and I'll rectify it. Now, what I did say is that taking money from members and giving it to FTP will result in fewer updates for members.

 

 

 

Did I say you said that NO. You don't have to. You act like it. They've gotten a members ability in what? The past 5 years?

 

I'm afraid we're playing two different games. In my game, FTP got a large number of updates in the past year, like duel arena, BH, FOG, corrupted items, GE, forums, RS HD, and other various updates. I play Runescape, at http://www.runescape.com. What game do you play?

 

 

 

Sorry but getting forums wouldn't keep most people in f2p and it obviously hasn't kept you. *cough* hypocrite *cough* :roll:

 

Could you again point out where I used the word 'most', or must I be again forced to assume your simply making up things and pretending that I said them for your argument? I'll repeat my statement for you again, as you seem to have been having some trouble remembering it: Taking money from members and giving it to FTP will result in fewer updates for members.

[Gmesh]

 

So because f2p gets a members ability they automatically lose so much money that it drastically effects us? Sorry but no. That's just another of your assumptions. :shame:

 

 

Could you point out the word 'drastically' in my post? I don't remember seeing it, either I'm forgetting what I wrote or your making crap up. If it's my fault, quote me and I'll rectify it. Now, what I did say is that taking money from members and giving it to FTP will result in fewer updates for members.

 

 

 

Did I say you said that NO. You don't have to. You act like it. They've gotten a members ability in what? The past 5 years?

 

I'm afraid we're playing two different games. In my game, FTP got a large number of updates in the past year, like duel arena, BH, FOG, corrupted items, GE, forums, RS HD, and other various updates. I play Runescape, at http://www.runescape.com. What game do you play?

 

 

 

Sorry but getting forums wouldn't keep most people in f2p and it obviously hasn't kept you. *cough* hypocrite *cough* :roll:

 

Could you again point out where I used the word 'most', or must I be again forced to assume your simply making up things and pretending that I said them for your argument? I'll repeat my statement for you again, as you seem to have been having some trouble remembering it: Taking money from members and giving it to FTP will result in fewer updates for members.

 

 

 

Prove it will give us less updates. That's what I thought.

 

 

 

Half of the f2p updates were to make up for the loss of wilderness. Duh? Sarcasm? Wow that's the lowest form of humor real classy.

 

 

 

I didn't say you said most. Stop changing the subject because you can't respond to what I have to say.

[compfreak847]

Prove it will give us less updates.

 

Gladly. Less money spent on updates = fewer updates.

 

That's what I thought.

 

Then why are you arguing?

 

 

 

 

Half of the f2p updates were to make up for the loss of wilderness.

 

Point being? Sort of ruins your little point of "no updates in the past 5 years".

 

 

 

Duh? Sarcasm? Wow that's the lowest form of humor real classy.

 

Nice try with the ad hominem argument, but puns are generally considered to be the lowest form of humor. Sarcasm idicates cunniningness and a contempt for the target, and is widely regarded to be an efficient method with which to subtle communicate the above.

 

 

 

I didn't say you said most. Stop changing the subject because you can't respond to what I have to say.

 

 

 

Sorry but getting forums wouldn't keep most people in f2p

 

Looks like you made a typo there, then. Perhaps you could tell me what you really meant to say? :roll:

 

 

 

Stop changing the subject because you can't respond to what I have to say.

 

Do I really have to spell it out for you? I never said most, and I specifically said that it was the exact opposite. It might be a good idea to read my posts before responding to them =D>

[Gmesh]

You keep changing the subject so ill put it clearly for you.

 

 

 

Prove how is it giving us less updates

[compfreak847]

You keep changing the subject so ill put it clearly for you.

 

 

 

Prove how is it giving us less updates

 

Less money spent on game development = fewer updates. Quite simple.

[Gmesh]

You keep changing the subject so ill put it clearly for you.

 

 

 

Prove how is it giving us less updates

 

Less money spent on game development = fewer updates. Quite simple.

 

 

 

Opinion. Proof please.

[compfreak847]

 

Opinion. Proof please.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buisness

 

 

 

See the section under 'capitalist business', pointing out that the point of a business, in this situation, is to produce revenue. Now, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra, if one subtracts a number from one side of an equation, the resulting solution will be lower then the previous solutions. Now, last time I checked, Algebra was taught in 7th to 8th grade, leading me to believe your either a hermit with a poor understanding of math, or too young to legally post on these forums in the USA.

[Gmesh]

That's nice. Nothing to do with RS and just more of your opinions and assumption.

 

 

 

Direct proof please.

[compfreak847]

That's nice. Nothing to do with RS and just more of your opinions and assumption.

 

 

 

Direct proof please.

 

I wasn't aware that algebra and a capitalistic form of business fell under "opinion", but I suppose you didn't bother reading my links. I'll be nice and give you an example.

 

 

 

Let "X" equal revenue generated.

 

 

 

X - Cost (FTP) - Cost (PTP) + Gross Income = Profit

 

 

 

For Profit to remain steady, Cost + Gross Income must remained inversely balanced. Therefore, if Cost (FTP) is increased without increasing Gross Income, Cost (PTP) must be reduced to maintain profit.

[Gmesh]

I see your logic but you fail to see that it is incorrect and just an assumption. You have no DIRECT proof. A statement without fact is only opinion.

[compfreak847]

I see your logic but you fail to see that it is incorrect and just an assumption. You have no DIRECT proof. A statement without fact is only opinion.

 

http://www.mathleague.com/help/algebra/algebra.htm

 

 

 

You might find this interesting. You'll probably learn it in a few years in school, but it'll help you understand for now. Read through it, and do a few practice problems so you know how to solve basic equations. Then come back and it'll all make sense :thumbsup:

[Gmesh]

Do not patronize me. I've taken alegbra and have no intrest in your beloved wikipedia. I want proof directly from Runescape\Jagex otherwise you really don't know.

[compfreak847]

Do not patronize me. I've taken alegbra and have no intrest in your beloved wikipedia. I want proof directly from Runescape\Jagex otherwise you really don't know.

 

Jagex has never released articles on algebraic equations to my knowledge, and Wikiepdia is a widely accredited source for accurate information. Here's another source if you don't really trust wikipedia; I can assure you that they are quite reliable: http://library.thinkquest.org/20991/prealg/eq.html