Tormented Demons - The Excellently Uber Guide!

[The_Great_One]

You don't need a unicorn to do Artemis Method or his spot. Bunyips work as well. I can stay down there indefinitely with 4 pineapple pizzas and bunyips, as long as my prayer lasts. If you use a whip, you will be in more situations where you cannot avoid the damage. When you are just D Hallying, you will only be in that situation if you are praying range when a trapped demon uses its charge attack. But if you are in melee range using whip, and are praying melee, you will also be in that situation. So it's just a little extra damage that you will be taking, but enough damage to make the bunyip method not as viable. When I get enhanced Excalibur, I might try the whip method again. I still use the whip method sometimes if I don't have al ot of time and just want a quick 10 kills. That said, I have 99 str and 99 att and D Hally is just not accurate. It's rare that I can kill a demon before a second shield, but I only use Combat Pots so I can fit more prayer pots.

 

 

 

Even though it's slower in the long run, staying down there for 30+ kills without a unicorn still seems better.

 

 

 

You agree that it is slower in the long run.... Wait, you prefer to hit a bunch of 0's instead of using both the funner and more efficient method? I'm sorry, but that just seems a tad strange to me...

[compfreak847]

I've been using Artemis's method with my unicorn and maxed stats. I tried several trips with whip, godsword, and mage, and this beats them all. It's far less hassle only switching between two prayers, and then only rarely, and it is essentially the same speed - even faster with piety flashing. Plus, it allows for trips of 50+ kills; it uses very few supplies and doesn't have the bother of frequent banking.

[totalpwnage]

I think you need to add a notice that says...

 

 

 

THIS GUIDE IS FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE UNICORNS!

[jerek_orbian]

Like I said, Bunyips work almost as good as Unicorns since you won't be taking much damage if you are good.

 

 

 

And it's not strange to prefer longer trips to faster kills. A lot can happen when you bank, including getting side tracked, people stealing your spot.

 

 

 

I just got another 2 D Claws in 3 days, and both drops came after at least 20 kills. The 2nd claw came after someone else came and asked if I was close to done before hopping -- 2 kills after that. If I was continually banking, I would not have got that claw.

 

 

 

In most cases, staying longer and more kills is better than faster kills. And I don't hit constant 0s.

[totalpwnage]

I just got another 2 D Claws in 3 days, and both drops came after at least 20 kills. The 2nd claw came after someone else came and asked if I was close to done before hopping -- 2 kills after that. If I was continually banking, I would not have got that claw.

 

 

 

In most cases, staying longer and more kills is better than faster kills. And I don't hit constant 0s.

 

Thats hypothetically for the drop. Remember, random numbers actually use something in the computers clock (or rather, the servers) to generate that random number -- hypothetically, banking could have gotten you that claw drop faster. But lets not get into that.

 

 

 

I tried using broad bolts + zgs (yes I'm aware its the worst gs for the situation, but it was 60k for 2 hours, why not) versus broad bolts + dhally and found that they were the same speed without void. However, my friend who still has void (I lost my melee void at corp) says that GS is faster when you have void.

 

 

 

However, theres one problem -- I tried broad bolts, zgs, and a tortoise with sharks. For hally, I used a unicorn. That probably made a difference. I can probably get just as many kills with a uni versus a tortoise when soloing with a gs -- I lasted about the same time my tortoise did the first time, and thats with quite a few mistakes. 44 minutes, thats about 15-20 kills for me. You also get to pick up a few more herbs and stuff in the end. The only problem is you have to switch prays a lot more and its a little harder to pray flash, but its not that hard really. I might start doing it every so often.

 

 

 

Btw, in that north spot, I stood in the spot you suggested for gs and 2 other demons were able to get on me. One from the south, and one from the east. Heck, the one to the east of the spot hit me 1 square farther west.

 

 

 

I'll have to retry demons again with a better gs (sgs preferably) and unicorn. That should be faster than hallying, and if its not, somethings seriously wrong #-o either that or the dhally spec makes up for the slowness (I love it when I hit like 46-42 specs and stuff xD)

 

 

 

And dammit you people need to give me some luck, I'm like 500 demons dry without a drop :( By the time I get claws I'm going to have to spend all of the money on the charms I got from TD's, lmao.

[The_Great_One]

Like I said, Bunyips work almost as good as Unicorns since you won't be taking much damage if you are good.

 

 

 

And it's not strange to prefer longer trips to faster kills. A lot can happen when you bank, including getting side tracked, people stealing your spot.

 

 

 

I just got another 2 D Claws in 3 days, and both drops came after at least 20 kills. The 2nd claw came after someone else came and asked if I was close to done before hopping -- 2 kills after that. If I was continually banking, I would not have got that claw.

 

 

 

In most cases, staying longer and more kills is better than faster kills. And I don't hit constant 0s.

 

 

 

Similarly, if you were fighting demons and then all of a sudden you get a power black out, that would be an almost certain death and you'd be unable to retrieve your items because you can't use the computer, but had you been safely banking you would not have died at all.

 

 

 

That kind of thinking really gets you nowhere. Besides, you would of still got that claw when you came back next time; just because you went and banked doesn't mean your odds of getting claws is reduced....

 

 

 

And you said your method was slower in the ------long------ run..... which basically implies that if you were to kill say, 1000 demons in total you would have taken longer to get all those kills with your method than with my method.

 

 

 

Constant 0's was an exaggeration, implying that you would hit a lot more 0's than normal.

 

 

 

But just remember that going head on with a godsword is much funner than with a hally. No one seems to understand that for some reason. You play a game to have fun, not to work!

 

 

 

And Compfreak - switching between 3 prayers is not a hassle at all. It adds challenge, and besides turning your prayer off when he tries to melee you is pretty much a "hassle". And lets not get started with switching between 2 items when using void... As well as having to take a step to the demon to weaken it with darklight... Manually clicking on the square you want to move to... Then clicking on the demon to attack... Then moving your mouse up to prayers so you're on standby.... Then when you finally weaken it with your unpotted stats, clicking on the square you were originally at.... Combined with going up and clicking on your inventory button (or having the discomfort of having your fingers on the F keys, as well as being unable to move your camera), then switching to your hally.... Your weak, slow little hally.... The pain... It hurts..... ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!! Please brutally shoot me in the face with those Hollow Point Bullets from

.

[The_Great_One]

Btw, in that north spot, I stood in the spot you suggested for gs and 2 other demons were able to get on me. One from the south, and one from the east. Heck, the one to the east of the spot hit me 1 square farther west.

 

 

 

You didn't trap the demons, did you?

[totalpwnage]

Btw, in that north spot, I stood in the spot you suggested for gs and 2 other demons were able to get on me. One from the south, and one from the east. Heck, the one to the east of the spot hit me 1 square farther west.

 

 

 

You didn't trap the demons, did you?

 

I did, but now that I think of it, it wasn't quiet and I saw someone else run in to the southwest spot (where someone else already was) so it probably walked off or something... I dunno, but it wasn't quiet there and thats probably what happened.

[The_Great_One]

Btw, in that north spot, I stood in the spot you suggested for gs and 2 other demons were able to get on me. One from the south, and one from the east. Heck, the one to the east of the spot hit me 1 square farther west.

 

 

 

You didn't trap the demons, did you?

 

I did, but now that I think of it, it wasn't quiet and I saw someone else run in to the southwest spot (where someone else already was) so it probably walked off or something... I dunno, but it wasn't quiet there and thats probably what happened.

 

 

 

Yeah I'd prolly go to the north-east spot if it ain't quiet, only 1 demon you need to trap and it's in plain view... And now that I think about it, my hally spot wouldn't work very well if it isn't quiet.... Well I dunno, you could probably just go on a non crowded world at any time of the day really, such as Aussie servers at the non Aussie times, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[compfreak847]

 

And Compfreak - switching between 3 prayers is not a hassle at all. It adds challenge

 

Sorry, but I'm here to make money, not "challange" myself by getting hit far more with a ton of extra clicking

 

and besides turning your prayer off when he tries to melee you is pretty much a "hassle".

 

You only have to do it twice per kill, two extra clicks compared to dozens from triple prayer switching is nothing.

 

 

And lets not get started with switching between 2 items when using void...

 

Hally and crossbow can both be switched with two items if your fast without losing a single attack round.

 

As well as having to take a step to the demon to weaken it with darklight... Manually clicking on the square you want to move to... Then clicking on the demon to attack... Then moving your mouse up to prayers so you're on standby.... Then when you finally weaken it with your unpotted stats, clicking on the square you were originally at.... Combined with going up and clicking on your inventory button (or having the discomfort of having your fingers on the F keys, as well as being unable to move your camera), then switching to your hally.... Your weak, slow little hally.... The pain... It hurts..... ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!! Please brutally shoot me in the face with those Hollow Point Bullets from this vid.

 

Virtually all of the 'hassle' you mentioned is included with regular melee, and amplified by having to do it with 3 combat styles, getting hit nearly twice as often.

 

 

 

Also, I'm afraid you missed the part where I said it was very close to regular speed thanks to piety flipping. You mentioned not potting, that could be one of the reasons your experiencing slow kill speed. Watch his video again, he details everything besides piety flipping.

[The_Great_One]

 

And Compfreak - switching between 3 prayers is not a hassle at all. It adds challenge

 

Sorry, but I'm here to make money, not "challange" myself by getting hit far more with a ton of extra clicking

 

and besides turning your prayer off when he tries to melee you is pretty much a "hassle".

 

You only have to do it twice per kill, two extra clicks compared to dozens from triple prayer switching is nothing.

 

 

And lets not get started with switching between 2 items when using void...

 

Hally and crossbow can both be switched with two items if your fast without losing a single attack round.

 

As well as having to take a step to the demon to weaken it with darklight... Manually clicking on the square you want to move to... Then clicking on the demon to attack... Then moving your mouse up to prayers so you're on standby.... Then when you finally weaken it with your unpotted stats, clicking on the square you were originally at.... Combined with going up and clicking on your inventory button (or having the discomfort of having your fingers on the F keys, as well as being unable to move your camera), then switching to your hally.... Your weak, slow little hally.... The pain... It hurts..... ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!! Please brutally shoot me in the face with those Hollow Point Bullets from this vid.

 

Virtually all of the 'hassle' you mentioned is included with regular melee, and amplified by having to do it with 3 combat styles, getting hit nearly twice as often.

 

 

 

Also, I'm afraid you missed the part where I said it was very close to regular speed thanks to piety flipping. You mentioned not potting, that could be one of the reasons your experiencing slow kill speed. Watch his video again, he details everything besides piety flipping.

 

 

 

Ok to start off with, switching between 3 prayers is really NOT A HASSLE. All you have to do is keep your mouse at the prayer menu and get ready to switch prayers, and switch to the appropriate style when neccessary. Guess what? With a hally you have to do that ANYWAY. Changing your prayer when your mouse is pretty much hovered over them already can't possibly be a hassle. That's easier than breathing! I was making fun (sorta) by saying switching your prayer off is a hassle. And having to pray all the time and getting hit more is more than worth the much faster kill speed. You can pray flash wish a godsword too which isn't that difficult like you do with hally.

 

 

 

As for void, well I don't care that you can switch them in an attack round.... WTH?? It's a huge hassle switching 2 items for crying out extremely loud. Just because it's "efficient" as you imply doesn't mean it's not a hassle. Switching between all 3 prayers while getting much faster kills is efficient, but according to you is a hassle. Hassle = annoying, not inefficient.

 

 

 

Um, the hassles I mentioned don't apply to regular melee at all.... you don't need to move your character when going in with darklight because your already there! Unlike with a hally. After I covered that hassle, the keyword was "combined" for the rest of the hassles.

 

 

 

I have tried hally with potting. I did for about 300 kills. Some of the most boring and slow kills ever. When I said "your unpotted stats," I meant that for after your super set ran out. You are a unicorner after all.

 

 

 

P.S. Don't take anything I say personally. As in we're not enemies. :)

 

 

 

Besides, I have already covered hally in my guide now. It is a worse method when you don't have a unicorn, no matter what you say.

[compfreak847]

 

 

 

Ok to start off with, switching between 3 prayers is really NOT A HASSLE. All you have to do is keep your mouse at the prayer menu and get ready to switch prayers, and switch to the appropriate style when neccessary.

 

You are ignoring all of my main points. When praying from a distance, prayer is used around 50% of the time - meaning your getting hit 1/2 as much, so little that a unicorn removes all need for food, and your using 1/2 the prayer potions, meaning far cheaper supplies and reduced time spent banking.

 

 

 

Guess what? With a hally you have to do that ANYWAY.

 

Yes, but only half the time - 50% less effort is far, far less.

 

 

 

 

As for void, well I don't care that you can switch them in an attack round.... WTH?? It's a huge hassle switching 2 items for crying out extremely loud.

 

Not nearly as much of a hassle as having to stay on your prayer screen the whole time. It's quite simple to stay at your inventory screen instead of switching back and forth from prayer as you get hit far less, and 3 clicks + very short mousing distance makes it much, much easier to switch weapons then switching from the prayer menu.

 

 

 

 

Um, the hassles I mentioned don't apply to regular melee at all.... you don't need to move your character when going in with darklight because your already there! Unlike with a hally. After I covered that hassle, the keyword was "combined" for the rest of the hassles.

 

What does moving a step when darklighting have to do with anything? You don't have to click, it doesn't affect attack time, and it happens once or twice a kill.

 

 

 

I have tried hally with potting. I did for about 300 kills. Some of the most boring and slow kills ever. When I said "your unpotted stats," I meant that for after your super set ran out. You are a unicorner after all.

 

When my super set runs out, I drink another dose. I don't get what your trying to say. Obviously you arn't getting optimal melee results; I'm talking about maxed unicorners, and your a level 125 with a bunyip.

 

 

 

 

P.S. Don't take anything I say personally. As in we're not enemies. :)

 

Same here, I tend to be abrasive when debating, but I argue against the statement, not the person.

 

 

 

 

I don't ever recall saying it wasn't #-o

[The_Great_One]

You are ignoring all of my main points. When praying from a distance, prayer is used around 50% of the time - meaning your getting hit 1/2 as much, so little that a unicorn removes all need for food, and your using 1/2 the prayer potions, meaning far cheaper supplies and reduced time spent banking.

 

 

 

I mentioned that too. "And having to pray all the time and getting hit more is more than worth the much faster kill speed."

 

 

 

Yes, but only half the time - 50% less effort is far, far less.

 

 

 

That's not what I'm saying. I am talking about hassles. As in things that are annoying. You pretty much have to keep your mouse hovered over the prayer menu at all times except when weapon switching etc, and when you have your mouse hovered over the prayers already it does not take much effort to just click. As such, it makes no difference whatsoever in annoying you. Unless being hit annoys you, but I find that to be pretty standard when fighting these.

 

 

 

Not nearly as much of a hassle as having to stay on your prayer screen the whole time. It's quite simple to stay at your inventory screen instead of switching back and forth from prayer as you get hit far less, and 3 clicks + very short mousing distance makes it much, much easier to switch weapons then switching from the prayer menu.

 

 

 

You always have to stay on the prayer screen all the time (except when weapon switching and whatnot). The demons can change styles at any moment (well, it generally has to attack 5 times or so, but still) without warning. You have to be constantly ready for that to happen, or you are going to get hit twice in a row. That applies to all methods.

 

 

 

What does moving a step when darklighting have to do with anything? You don't have to click, it doesn't affect attack time, and it happens once or twice a kill.

 

 

 

You have to click on the square your moving to!!!11!! If you just click attack demon while standing in your spot, you're going to just be playing Dance Dance Revolution. And then you gotta move your mouse all the way back to your prayer menu to activate a w/e prayer you choose to help you hit with that horrible sword, then move your mouse back to the demon and attack. Or move then attack demon then go to prayer and potentially waste an attack round, but either way clicking on the square to move is annoying.

 

 

 

When my super set runs out, I drink another dose. I don't get what your trying to say. Obviously you arn't getting optimal melee results; I'm talking about maxed unicorners, and your a level 125 with a bunyip.

 

 

 

How are you supposed to drink another dose when there are no more doses to drink? When your super set runs out you have empty vials that need to be dropped. I think you might of misunderstood me there.

 

 

 

Besides, I have already covered hally in my guide now. It is a worse method when you don't have a unicorn, no matter what you say.

 

I don't ever recall saying it wasn't #-o

 

 

 

 

Why are we arguing then? I sorta agree with hally being better when you have a unicorn... And you seem to agree it's worse when you dont have one.... Wow so much time wasted....

 

 

 

BTW, have you tried my hally spot? If so, has it worked well for y00?

[compfreak847]

 

I mentioned that too. "And having to pray all the time and getting hit more is more than worth the much faster kill speed."

 

Except the kill speed isn't faster #-o

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not what I'm saying. I am talking about hassles. As in things that are annoying. You pretty much have to keep your mouse hovered over the prayer menu at all times except when weapon switching etc, and when you have your mouse hovered over the prayers already it does not take much effort to just click. As such, it makes no difference whatsoever in annoying you. Unless being hit annoys you, but I find that to be pretty standard when fighting these.

 

It isn't the number of things that are annoying, it's how frequently they occur. And you either haven't tried the hally method or are doing it incorrectly, as you should be hovering over your weapons to change. That way you don't have to switch to you inventory every time he switches prayers.

 

 

 

 

You always have to stay on the prayer screen all the time (except when weapon switching and whatnot). The demons can change styles at any moment (well, it generally has to attack 5 times or so, but still) without warning. You have to be constantly ready for that to happen, or you are going to get hit twice in a row. That applies to all methods.

 

That is not true. You will always get hit once, but unless you have very poor mousing skills you will not get hit twice. And you'll get hit once no matter how you do it except in cases of the slow mage attack, where any method gets the prayer in time.

 

 

 

 

You have to click on the square your moving to!!!11!! If you just click attack demon while standing in your spot, you're going to just be playing Dance Dance Revolution. And then you gotta move your mouse all the way back to your prayer menu to activate a w/e prayer you choose to help you hit with that horrible sword, then move your mouse back to the demon and attack. Or move then attack demon then go to prayer and potentially waste an attack round, but either way clicking on the square to move is annoying.

 

Not in the spot I use, the prayer is already left-clicked so a double click activates it and wilds; clicking on the demon brings me right to him. You must be using the wrong location.

 

 

 

 

How are you supposed to drink another dose when there are no more doses to drink? When your super set runs out you have empty vials that need to be dropped. I think you might of misunderstood me there.

 

Soo, you drop the vials and start drinking your next super set? I'm really not understanding you, are you trying to argue that vial-dropping is a huge hassle? If that's the case, it's certainly no more hassle then when using 3 attack methods.

 

 

 

 

Why are we arguing then? I sorta agree with hally being better when you have a unicorn... And you seem to agree it's worse when you dont have one.... Wow so much time wasted....

 

I've been stating all along that I was referring to maxed players with unicorns, I thought that was clear.

 

 

 

 

BTW, have you tried my hally spot? If so, has it worked well for y00?

 

I used it for two trips, and it worked OK, but I prefer the SW spot. You only have to lure one demon at the very beginning, and it's quite obvious which one - no other demons will ever come within close enough range to attack you, and it's a simple two click lure from a spawn a few squares away plus a completely safe area to pick up drops.

[The_Great_One]

Except the kill speed isn't faster #-o

 

 

 

Yes it is!!!!@@@@@@

 

Godsword: Slash +132, Strength +132, Attack Rate: 4 secs/attack

 

D hally: Slash +95, Strength +89, Attack Rate: 5 secs/attack

 

 

 

Big difference!!

 

 

 

Soo, you drop the vials and start drinking your next super set? I'm really not understanding you, are you trying to argue that vial-dropping is a huge hassle? If that's the case, it's certainly no more hassle then when using 3 attack methods.

 

 

 

How can you fit in 2 super sets with the unicorn invo? How? Your invo would be pretty cramped... And no, I don't care about vial dropping, thats done after the demon's dead lol.

 

 

 

 

 

For everything else, I got nothing.

[compfreak847]

 

 

 

Yes it is!!!!@@@@@@

 

Godsword: Slash +132, Strength +132, Attack Rate: 4 secs/attack

 

D hally: Slash +95, Strength +89, Attack Rate: 5 secs/attack

 

 

 

Big difference!!

 

But that's not all there is to the story - void adds +15% to attack\strength with hally, and piety adds another defence and strength boost, as well as boosting range. I firmly believe it is impossible to pray-switch piety while switching between three different prayers, two different attack styles, and eating\potting frequently. Unless I see a video of this being done consistently and easily, I will assume it is impossible for all but the fastest clickers.

 

 

 

How can you fit in 2 super sets with the unicorn invo? How? Your invo would be pretty cramped... And no, I don't care about vial dropping, thats done after the demon's dead lol.

 

What are you talking about? All I need is a uni pouch + scrolls in invo, a house tele, a lantern, my weapons, and a back up brew. All the rest of my invo can be used for prayer potions and super sets. I have FAR more room then you ever will with melee. It's basically your melee invo, minus the brews.

 

 

 

Also, while I was typing this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

-.- -.- -.-

 

 

 

Remind me not to ignore my screen while typing responses :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

 

 

Then again,

 

[hide=][/hide]

 

: : : =P~

[The_Great_One]

I firmly believe it is impossible to pray-switch piety while switching between three different prayers, two different attack styles, and eating\potting frequently. Unless I see a video of this being done consistently and easily, I will assume it is impossible for all but the fastest clickers.

 

 

 

You overestimate just how much effort is required. The fact that you gotta switch between 3 different prayers is irrelevant considering that in order to piety flash you have to have your prayer menu open.... And now that I think of it, you do need to have your menu open most of the time for that very reason even when hallying. And you dont need to eat that much.

 

 

 

That said, I've been taking a break from TD's since I got my 2nd claws and am training slayer. I won't be back there for a while and I got no gs atm so I can't really test it. Oh, and I'm only like 3k crims away from a unicorn :P I'll prolly be back about then.

 

 

 

But really lets just end this argument. My guide is aimed at people without unicorns and a gs is better for people without unicorns, and I guess a hally is better for those who do have unicorns. We really aren't arguing over much.

[compfreak847]

 

You overestimate just how much effort is required. The fact that you gotta switch between 3 different prayers is irrelevant considering that in order to piety flash you have to have your prayer menu open.... And now that I think of it, you do need to have your menu open most of the time for that very reason even when hallying. And you dont need to eat that much.

 

 

It certainly is relevant; adding timed clicking at a rate of nearly once per second drastically increases the attention required, concentration, and clicking times, as well as increasing the potential for messing up and missing the timing of an attack switch.

 

 

 

 

But really lets just end this argument. My guide is aimed at people without unicorns and a gs is better for people without unicorns, and I guess a hally is better for those who do have unicorns. We really aren't arguing over much.

 

Good to see I've convinced you \

[red_Fat1]

Their is 2 ways to safe spot that i know :thumbsup:

[Gonalo40]

well.. i personally use the south-west spot with a hally and broad bolts and i usually stay 3 bunyips and have to tele because of the lack of prayer..

 

 

 

Halberd is far better then gs in my opinion with a lot less hassle and nearly killing them the same speed

[iLootChests]

u need 45 cons for a oak alter in your poh

[Great_one]

nice guide, pics could be bit cleaner though.

[The_Great_One]

People, I absolutely insist that a gs doesn't have much hassle. I used a gs for ages, so I know what I'm talking about. You just have to get used to it, it does seem a lot harder when you switch from hally to gs, but after a while it becomes easy.

 

 

 

I got much faster kills with a gs than with a hally. With a hally it sometimes took me 4 shield knockdowns while with a gs the most it took was 3, but most of the time 2.

 

 

 

P.S. I am greater than y000 ^^^

[compfreak847]

People, I absolutely insist that a gs doesn't have much hassle. I used a gs for ages, so I know what I'm talking about. You just have to get used to it, it does seem a lot harder when you switch from hally to gs, but after a while it becomes easy.

 

 

 

I got much faster kills with a gs than with a hally. With a hally it sometimes took me 4 shield knockdowns while with a gs the most it took was 3, but most of the time 2.

 

 

 

P.S. I am greater than y000 ^^^

 

Then you are not using a hally correctly. I have NEVER gotten to 4 knockdowns with a hally, 3 is uncommon, 2 is the most common, and I've gotten quite a few with a SINGLE knockdown. You just have to be fast with switching.

[The_Great_One]

People, I absolutely insist that a gs doesn't have much hassle. I used a gs for ages, so I know what I'm talking about. You just have to get used to it, it does seem a lot harder when you switch from hally to gs, but after a while it becomes easy.

 

 

 

I got much faster kills with a gs than with a hally. With a hally it sometimes took me 4 shield knockdowns while with a gs the most it took was 3, but most of the time 2.

 

 

 

P.S. I am greater than y000 ^^^

 

Then you are not using a hally correctly. I have NEVER gotten to 4 knockdowns with a hally, 3 is uncommon, 2 is the most common, and I've gotten quite a few with a SINGLE knockdown. You just have to be fast with switching.

 

 

 

Don't forget you are maxed out just about.