~~~ Jagex's Mass RWT Ban Cover-up ~~~

[Kiriyama]

If Jagex prove they have credible evidence to back up their suspicions, then nothing would happen.

 

 

 

Oh, and you could only really sue for damages. Enjoy your 1 month membership fee. I'm sure its going ot make the costs of sueing totally worth it.

 

 

 

Sarcasm isn't appreciated. I understand that you believe I RWt'ed because Jagex banned me for it, and like I said, I don't blame you for it.

 

 

 

I'm asking the questions simply to understand a bit more.

 

I would have no intention to even consider trying to bring an end to Runescape, unless the day I quit, my account was still banned.

 

 

 

So basically, since they have don't have evidence of a RWT, they'd be forced to un-ban me, and others that were banned purely due to unbalanced trades.

 

 

 

Oh, I was more making of a point of the "sue Jagex" attitude. You can only sue for damages, so you want your month memebership fee back? Then go ahead and sue, just remember the costs of actually doing so outweigh what you get back.

 

 

 

punitive damages anyone? You could get alot more than actual membership damages if you sued jagex in court. Also just because a contract says something doesn't mean that contract will hold up in court. just fyi.

 

 

 

Tell that to the guys who wants to sue M$ over live being down for a few hours or a day, I forget which.

 

 

 

Basically, the guy has agreed his account is property of Jagex, and he can only really sue for damages suffered. I.E. The price of 1 months membership.

 

 

 

I can't see it holding much basis in court, people just need to read before they agree.

[tugrul88]

Enough talk about Court and sueing Jagex.

 

 

 

Has anyone that appealed for a ban received a reply yet? It's been 11 days since I appealed.

 

I'm hoping this means they're checking through each appeal thoroughly, rather than them covering up some sort of difficulty with responding to appeals.

[Sir_Kurity]

Point is, if hes telling the truth, what jagex is doing is wrong.

[tugrul88]

Point is, if hes telling the truth, what jagex is doing is wrong.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

I AM telling the truth, and Jagex ARE doing wrong.

 

 

 

I wouldn't be pleading Jagex to investigate my account thoroughly 26 months after I was banned if all they'd find there is proof of a RWT.

[TheDayRsDied]

They were hysterical about RWT, I'm not suprised that there were random bans and blunders.

[tugrul88]

They were hysterical about RWT, I'm not suprised that there were random bans and blunders.

 

 

 

Yes they were. And I understand now why they panicked and banned anything that looked suspicious. But after the GE and trade limit came into place, RWT'ing hardly existed (I think) and they released Account Reviewing. I would have thought that at this time, they would un-ban those that were banned for RWT'ing with only an unbalanced trade as evidence. However, the fact that my appeal was denied, and that I've never seen/heard of someone accused of RWT'ing being un-banned is a joke.

 

 

 

I'm hoping that with this new Appeal System they'll finally look into it properly.

[Zaaps1]

Unfair, yes. But what can you do about it? Jagex owns your account, not you. Legally, they can do whatever they please.

[momo958]

Hey tugrul...

 

 

 

I believe you! :mrgreen: I was banned too in 2007 for RWT which i never did. I was simply killing the kalphite queen with a couple of guys then I got a dragon chain drop. So we go to a bank and I give one of them the chain and he gives my 1/3 of its value(like 4 millions at that time). He gives the third partner another third and then go sell the chain and make his profit; the remaining third. The next day the 3 of us get banned for Real World Trading!!

 

 

 

I appealed immediately and thought that it's just a misunderstanding and they will apologize and unban me. That was what I expected from Jagex at that time.

 

 

 

But Jagex shows their real face and I get my appeal denied. I sent this last chance appeal which was denied too

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So after 2 years of honest playing through and achieving many 99s including slayer and over 150 million Exp, I was banned because I shared a drop with my partners.

 

 

 

Anyway I got over it and quit RS for good afterwards. But what really annoyed me those arrogant people judging others like "If you got banned, you must have deserved it!"

 

 

 

Good job Jagex, I really had a unique gaming experience...

[momo958]

By the way, I used this 2nd chance appeal and as I expected they denied it again.

 

 

 

what can I say? they are just NAZIS!!

[Ravenkana]

Jagex really isn't above fear tactics. Remember that old times article that Andrew demanded be removed or Tip.it would be sued? Or when the RWT updates went through and several high profile stakers and Pkers, the one I remember being FookingNuts, were banned out of the blue?

 

 

 

So I do believe your story and I do believe that Jagex shuts down threads simply to keep the word from getting out. Bad for business, eh?

 

 

 

Furthermore, in the past Jagex has proven to be, as a whole, remarkable pigheaded. They would rarely, if ever, admit to wrong doing and often praised their amazing detection techniques. The new administration, maybe not so much, I'm not sure yet.

[tugrul88]

Thank you Momo and Raven. I stopped checking this thread since most of the comments were assumptions that I was banned correctly, and Jagex is always right.

 

 

 

Thanks for not being prejudice (Raven especially, since you haven't experienced being banned wrongly).

 

 

 

I believe you Momo. And that's ridiculous. I know of others that were banned for RWT when sharing the loot too. How can they not spot the difference? And how can they still deny the appeals almost 3 years later?

 

 

 

Yes, they don't read appeals. Or at least they didn't back then. I know that for a fact.

 

 

 

I'm still waiting for a response on this new appeal, but like I said before, I have no hope anymore. And it's better this way I guess, so I won't feel crushed yet again when it's denied.

[tugrul88]

After almost 1 month, I received my reply to my appeal.

 

 

 

Denied. No evidence. The same reply I received 3 years ago, "you were in control of the account...".

 

 

 

Suprise suprise. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. What a joke.

 

 

 

So now I need some info to take it to a higher authority. Is there a possibility that a higher power can make Jagex show evidence of me RWT'ing, and if there is no evidence, I will be un-banned? I had renewed my membership the day before I was banned.

 

 

 

I'll go over the advice that was posted earlier, but can anyone else help?

 

 

 

Thanks in advance.

[haggisoflife]

 

So the Mod is saying he received the appeal, read the appeal, checked the evidence thoroughly, and responded IN 18 SECONDS.

 

Does anyone buy that? So he was refreshing his inbox every second until he received the appeal, he read the 1K character appeal, checked the evidence and responded?

 

 

 

I do.

 

If the evidence they had is solid and the offence was big enough then I don't see why it would take more than a couple of seconds to check it out.

 

 

 

 

Denied. No evidence. The same reply I received 3 years ago, "you were in control of the account...". Suprise suprise. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. What a joke.

 

 

 

 

How about "get over it"?

 

They don't give out the evidence as if they did it would show how they track these offences. They've made that clear again and again and again. So if they think that you did it why would they suddenly change their mind?

 

 

 

So now I need some info to take it to a higher authority. Is there a possibility that a higher power can make Jagex show evidence of me RWT'ing, and if there is no evidence, I will be un-banned? I had renewed my membership the day before I was banned./quote]

 

 

 

By "higher authority" do you mean god? And no, it is unlikely that unless you get some unfeasibly good lawyer involved in this that you'll be able to get them to show you the evidence.

 

Sorry dude but you got banned, and like every other person who has ever been busted in the history of RS you were innocent and Jagex got it wrong. And just like them moaning about this three years down the line won't do any good.

[RoxyMcFoxy]

I actually kept my word and read through EVERY single post on this thread...I absorbed a ton of information (some good, some bad...some I truly didn't need to know :shock: ).

 

 

 

Anywho...While I feel alot of people were rightfully perm banned, I do also think that before someone is PERM banned:

 

 

 

1. Jagex should take into consideration the amount of time truly spent on a char compared to the amount of offenses against it. (Ie: If a char has played for X years without incident, yet one day just pops off and does it for no reason, do they deserve a perm ban?)

 

 

 

2. For characters that are newer, couldn't they resend them through a punishment version of Tutorial Island for Offenders? It would make more sense to rehab a paying customer than it would to ban them permanently. (I realize it takes alot of work to create something like this, but would they not make up for a bunch of it in membership dues by being able to retain paying customers?) Please note, this could also work for even elder players, as they would be willing to pay to attend the class rather than lose their char. (Besides, if they did attend this class and were STILL breaking the same rule, it would be more deserving of a ban...and not just a blatant mistake.)

 

 

 

3. If a character has enough p2p credits already built up in their account as a 'repeat customer' would they not deserve better customer service? Truthfully, half of commerce is created by keeping repeat customers, not by gaining new ones outright.

 

 

 

Thanks for listening :oops: I'm not saying either way whether or not this ban was right...I'm not here to judge that. I'm just saying there are alternatives to their ways.

[stillballin]

tugrul, i believe what your saying 100%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dont worry about idiots like haggisoflife.. who use no basic logic and just blindly follow jagex and think they do no wrong, he didnt even call you a liar, he claimed that you can check your inbox, read a whole message, and do research on it and deny it in 18 seconds. hahaha

 

 

 

 

 

im not a "jagex hater", ive never been banned, never muted even though i say alot of stuff that i couldve gotten muted for, its just i back up people like this who get screwed by jagex. i know if i got banned for no reason after i put in countless hours to get a good/rich character id be furious..

[tugrul88]

RoxyMcFoxy:

 

Thanks for sparing your time to read through the thread and for posting input.

 

Some good suggestions there and it'd be better if a system like that was created, but I really doubt Jagex would spend their time creating it.

 

 

 

 

 

stillballin:

 

Thanks for your support and understanding, even though I'm unable to provide any hard-evidence.

 

Exactly, "furious" doesn't even suffice in my case. After 3-4 years of honest game play and a clean "criminal record", being removed from the game due to a suspicious unbalanced trade...

 

 

 

However, I managed to post on the RS forums without it being locked for once and quite a few people have posted that they too were banned in 2007 for RWT due to unbalanced trades and a few of them had their recent appeals accepted. It took one person 5 appeals before he was unbanned after sharing loot that he got with his friends dropped by an NPC.

 

 

 

This gives me hope, since I thought they would never let people who were accused back in the game but it looks like after constant appeals, someone finally looks into the evidence properly. I've been told I can appeal in a month for the last time, so 5th time lucky?

 

 

 

Something interesting posted by someone on my thread:

 

Hey L 3 V all the luck with getting your account unbanned.

 

 

 

I don't understand how Jagex used to enforce this rule since with free trade any trade made could have been considered real world trading. There will have been no way to determine if a player was giving items due to quitting, as a present or if they were actually RWTing.

 

 

 

Jagex have always said that if there is any doubt to whether a player broke a rule or not that they will always side with the player. Jagex could only be definite on whether a person broke the RWTing rule or not if they admitted to it ingame. The offenders would have to say "Hey I've got that £5 you wanted now can I have my 20M please" and I'm sure they don't even have that for half of the offenders.

 

 

 

They must be determining everything on the players trading large amounts of items to each other, which, if they're sensible enough, they would know that this doesn't always mean that the player is RWTing.

 

 

 

I'll say again in hope Jagex will realise. They said they will always go with the player if there is ANY doubt at all. There MUST be doubt for the people banned without admitting to it, since to Jagex all it looks like is a large trade which doesn't always involve RWTing so it means they can't 100% have broken the rule, unless they admitted to it.

 

 

 

I hope that one day they will realise that they have doubt on these bans, and also remember they said when in doubt they will side with the player. Once this day comes, if it comes, all the falsely banned players might actually get unbanned.

 

 

 

Again, the best of luck to you.

 

 

 

Now, I didn't know until a few days ago that "if there is any doubt to whether a player broke a rule or not that they will always side with the player". I can't understand why so very few RWT cases are unbanned then. How can they have no doubt in a situation where the only suspicious act is an unbalanced trade?

 

 

 

On another note;

 

a couple days ago on 09/06/09, Jagex released an update which cased many many bugs in RS. A lot of NPC's did no retaliate (GWD bosses, Fire Caves, Aviansies etc), Familiars didn't summon, the GE and bankers were not working properly, and a few other glitches.

 

This went on for 30 minutes or so before Jagex fixed it. During these 30 minutes, many people exploited these bugs by going to Fight Caves and doing several waves since the NPCs didn't attack, and many others went and solo'ed GWD bosses. Quite a few of these players posted on the forums saying "oh attacking the bosses while they couldn't retaliate was fun while it lasted".

 

Jagex then made an announcement that no-one will be banned for Bug-abuse.

 

 

 

Why? Their reason was "no harm was done". So what about those players that made money thanks to a bug? Why were many people banned during the Penguin Points bug? No harm was done either then right?

 

 

 

Answer:- They realised that a mass ban would damage their potential income, so they avoided it.

 

 

 

So they're happy to ban people for RWT'ing, with just an unbalanced trade as evidence, but when there's clear-cut evidence, and people even admitting they exploited the bug, they let them off?

 

 

 

If this doesn't show you how very flawed Jagex are, I don't know what will.

[Kiriyama]

Actually it would have been because very little damage could have been caused in that time.

 

 

 

With the Penguin Bug, people were able to get an extreme amount of exp, with no limit, correct? I don't know completely about it, but people were able to get skills to 99 easily, correct?

 

 

 

While 30 mins of Boss Monsters not attacking, well, that put very few items into the game, due to drop rates, and the fact they were still fairly high HP and DEF, monsters.

 

 

 

Even then the Fight Caves are not possible in 30 minutes, correct? Therefore, only those who were close to the Jad before the update would have been able to fight him, and most players know not to go against Jad on update days, because you can be horribly raped by the 360s when logging in, or even the Jad himself. Please put more thought to the matter.

[tugrul88]

Actually it would have been because very little damage could have been caused in that time.

 

 

 

With the Penguin Bug, people were able to get an extreme amount of exp, with no limit, correct? I don't know completely about it, but people were able to get skills to 99 easily, correct?

 

 

 

While 30 mins of Boss Monsters not attacking, well, that put very few items into the game, due to drop rates, and the fact they were still fairly high HP and DEF, monsters.

 

 

 

Even then the Fight Caves are not possible in 30 minutes, correct? Therefore, only those who were close to the Jad before the update would have been able to fight him, and most players know not to go against Jad on update days, because you can be horribly raped by the 360s when logging in, or even the Jad himself. Please put more thought to the matter.

 

 

 

It doesn't matter how much "damage" was caused.

 

 

 

The bug was blatantly obvious. People exploited the bug. Exploiting bugs is against the rules. A few people made big bucks from drops at GWD, some people got through a bunch of Fire Cave waves thanks to the bug.

 

 

 

There's proof of the bug abuse, yet Jagex doesn't even plan to give those bug-abusers just a warning.

 

 

 

It's a joke. I've had a thread active on RS forums asking them what the reason was for no action being taken on those bug-abusers, and not a single Mod has answered in 9 days.

 

 

 

Are you denying that their system is flawed? They ban people who look suspicious, but they don't even warn rule-breakers when they have firm evidence of it. The fact that they go around saying "our detection systems are flawless" and yet they unban people accused of RWT'ing after their 4th or 5th appeal just proves it. Jagex wont let RWT'ers back in the game if they have evidence of a RWT, so why did it take 4 or 5 appeals for some people to return?

[Alg]

Do they have firm evidence of it, though? Does boss fighting leave a record?

 

In your case at least they had something odd, whether they were right or wrong. In this one, there probably isn't anything linking any given player to a boss monster. And even then, it'd be easy to kill a monster without hearing of the glitch... It isn't all black and white (Which could also be grounds for unbanning you)

[Whitt333]

I've read every post on this thread. Even though I've never been banned myself, I agree that Jagex's customer support is TERRIBLE. They will not listen to you at all. Huge amount of blackmarks and bans are given to innocent players daily, but there is nothing we can really do.

 

 

 

I wish you luck, but the chances of you ever getting on that account again are pretty low...

[tugrul88]

Do they have firm evidence of it, though? Does boss fighting leave a record?

 

In your case at least they had something odd, whether they were right or wrong. In this one, there probably isn't anything linking any given player to a boss monster. And even then, it'd be easy to kill a monster without hearing of the glitch... It isn't all black and white (Which could also be grounds for unbanning you)

 

 

 

I guess it's not all black and white. But I still think their attitude towards not even giving a warning to those that obviously took advantage of the bug is ridiculous. I mean people were posting things like "Hah, that glitch was fun while it lasted" on the forums, obviously confessing to exploiting a bug but Jagex didn't care.

 

I'm sure many many more people will be exploiting short-lived bugs from now on.

 

 

 

I've read every post on this thread. Even though I've never been banned myself, I agree that Jagex's customer support is TERRIBLE. They will not listen to you at all. Huge amount of blackmarks and bans are given to innocent players daily, but there is nothing we can really do.

 

 

 

I wish you luck, but the chances of you ever getting on that account again are pretty low...

 

 

 

Thanks for your time and input Whitt. I don't think anyone can deny how bad their customer services are.

 

Thanks for your good luck wishes, much appreciated and much needed.

[Knotch_Blade]

Permbanned for "macro-ing" aka mining without responding to noobs. :-#

 

 

 

GF.

[Omali]

Permbanned for "macro-ing" aka mining without responding to noobs. :-#

 

 

 

GF.

 

 

 

Because not responding triggers macroing bans. Blood Argon used that same excuse, look where he ended up.

 

 

 

Heard it all before.

[JimmyJTomson]

While I have never been banned, I did have an account problem that took more than a year to be resolved.

 

 

 

I was a member back in Classic all the way through the update to RS2. After a few months of RS2, I split koolaid on my laptop due to a "malfunction" of a coaster, killing my laptop. After a very long time without a computer, I finally got a new one and could play RuneScape again, but to my dismay, I could not access my account and my attempts to recover it failed because I did not have my original payment information. I knew it was my fault for losing my information and gave up, until last summer that is. While cleaning my basement, I found my payment info; I rejoiced! I ran to my computer and filled out my lost password form, still no luck. I had guessed that I didn't have the right recoveries. After a few more tries, success! The first thing I did was add 3 month subscription through paypal and then hopped on to check out what I had missed.

 

 

 

The welcome screen, you last logged on "3 months ago." Wait, that can't be right, can it? I haven't played in ages. Instantly I get PM'd, "Matt, is that you?" (My name is not Matt, nor is it Jimmy either :P) I check my levels, and I have levels (albeit low levels) in skills that didn't exist last time I played, Slayer, Construction, Farming. As it turns out, someone had hijacked my account while I was gone. I thought oh well, and quickly ignored the person who PM'd me. Then more PM's, lot's of them, calling me a hacker and whatnot. I ignored it and switched my status to Friends, that would solve everything right? Wrong! 3 days later and I can't log on to my account. I recover using stolen password form, and then the fight ensues with this other person. We kept recovering back and forth, and every time in my appeal, I say that someone else has their own payment information. No help though, so I post on the forums and have the message include that I need to talk to a real person because I have the original creation details and original payment information, that should prove I am the real owner right? Wrong again; I get a reply from a JMod saying that there would be no way to tell who was the original owner because we both had payment information, what!? How would the original creation details and payment details not prove that I created the account? My thread was then locked and shortly hidden thereafter. I tried a few more times through ticket process to no avail; I called it quits.

 

 

 

A year passes and I stumble upon a email address for jagex, [email protected], I figure why not? After a lengthy email explaining the situation and fact that I basically had 3 months of membership stolen from me, I get a response, from a real person! They said they would pass the email onto some higher ups and that they would take care of the problem. 3 days later I got an email saying the non original information had been removed from the account and I was safe to play again, what a relief! I played it safe this time though, I stayed F2P for a month and after having no issues, decide to upgrade back to P2P. Then 2 weeks in, problems again. While alching at the GE, I tried to login to the forums, but my password would not work. I tried a few times, nothing, then panic. I switch windows and try to bank everything, but as I'm walking 5 steps to the bank, I get signed out. I fire another email to billingsupport and include all the previous replies and have to threaten action because I used my credit card to pay this time, not paypal. After 2 days, everything was rectified and now I have been playing safe for 3 months, and what a great 3 months it has been.

 

 

 

Sorry for the long post that is slightly offtopic, but I thought it relevant to show that it's not even just RWT that can't get customer support. I believe with the right information in a nicely worded, yet demanding email can actually get you somewhere. Since you lost out on a full months worth of membership, they do owe you something. They have to provide you with their proof, otherwise you can take lawful action. And to whoever said that it would be a waste of time and money to sue, I'm sure a class-action lawsuit by 1,000 players would be well worth it since you can file in small claims court for something along the lines of $40.

 

 

 

On another note, I recall a case in the news a few months ago where a kid threaten to beat another kid up if he didn't give him his RS stuff. Charges were filed and the bully was charged with theft. He was ordered to return the items and had to do like 1000 hours of community service because the judge considered the time spent playing to earn the items.

[bewareitsandrew]

My heart goes out to you. This is completely unfair. Although nothing like this has happened before, I was muted for 3 days with no explanation.I had a few blackmarks on my account, when I had started playing (around 4 years ago) I was young and immature, and hadn't received a blackmark in 2 1/2 years.

 

 

 

I log on in January 2009. and I am muted for 3 days. I'm confused, so I head to the appeal center. It says I committed a rule 1 offence (offensive language). I demand to see evidence. It says I can't. But I just checked my blackmark record... the offence seems to be deleted.. :-k Mistake? I'm not sure.

 

 

 

I'm just trying to say, good luck in getting your account back.