Ruminations on Herblore & Farming

[lordkafei]

After spending a long sojourn mining falling stars and felling evil trees, I have recently returned to other skills. During a recent slayer assignment, I received a smattering of higher herb seeds. Now that I have gotten my farming cape, I was looking to sell the seeds for some coin. Imagine my surprise when I checked the prices on herb seeds:

 

 

 

G.H.P = Grimy Herb Price, as per the G.E. at the time of posting



Species               Seed Price          G.H.P.          G.H.P. * 6.6     Avg. Profit per Seed 



Torstol               14100                3178                20975               6875

Dwarf Weed             7216                2018                13319               6102

Lantadyme              1391                1225                8085                6694

Cadantine               910                1223                8072                7162

Snapdragon            48800                9788                64600              15800	

Kwuarm                 5063                2876                18982              13919

Avantoe                 251                1617                10672              10421

Irit                    180                1195                7887                7707

Spirit Weed             213                1912                12619              12406

Toadflax               1064                2347                15490              14426

Ranarr Weed           30500                7668                50609              20109

Harralander              45                 749                4943                4898

Tarromin                  9                 196                1294                1284

Marrentill                8                 200                1320                1312

Guam Leaf                16                 455                3003                2987

 

 

 

Clearly, the balance in this supplier/consumer relationship is tipped in favor of the farmers.

 

Herb farmers can make incredible profits at all levels, provided someone will actually buy the herbs.

 

 

 

But where does that leave the herblorist? Sadly, not very well off. In fact, as of this writing there are three profitable potions. Two require you to gather the 2nd ingredient at a respawn point. Relicyms Balm and Antipoison++ both require you to stand and gather slowly-spawning items at no cash cost but at great time cost. Antipoison+ is currently profitable due to the collapse of yew root prices (which is due to the practice of buying tree seeds for the power-leveling of farming).

 

 

 

And this assumes that you will find a buyer for those pots. Relicyms Balm can be bought from Uglug Nar for 200, so good luck selling yours for anything more. Antipoison++ is heavily traded and speculated; the 30-day chart resembles a roller coaster. To my knowledge, Antipoison+ is thinly traded. As for the rest, they are money-losers.

 

 

 

If making potions is clearly not profitable, then how does one train herblore to a high level in a reasonable amount of time and without burning money? Personally, Ive given up on making potions entirely. There is no point unless you plan to use them yourself. The G.E. prices for pots do not cover the cost of materials. I cannot decide whether there is no selling interest at these prices or rather that people just dont use potions anymore. Are potions underused because of ignorance by the general population, are they made obsolete by newer equipment or are they simply not worth the meager prices levels set by the G.E.? Or are the prices simply held low because of a glut of potions (way too many sellers, not enough buyers)? I am undecided.

 

 

 

My current method of training herblore consists of buying grimy herbs on the G.E., cleaning them and selling them back. With careful selection, I find that I am able to make about 100gp per herb. With an average rate of 3000 herbs per hour (50 per minute), I am making variable xp up to about 44K xp per hour and a fairly constant 300,000gp per hour. And I produce nothing in doing so. You could say I refine a raw material, I guess.

 

 

 

Using this method of simply cleaning herbs, you could go from level 3 to level 33 in about an hour and lose no money, assuming you cleaned the highest level herb possible all the way. Another hour would get you over level 46. And you would be profiting all the way if you timed your buy/sell points correctly.

 

 

 

To reach level 99 herblore, assuming you always cleaned the highest herb possible, you would have to clean over 880,000 herbs. At 3000 per hour, that comes to about 296 hours.

 

 

 

Why then, should anyone bother with making potions, except for personal use? Clearly you can make more money just cleaning the herbs.

 

 

 

I have not yet figured out why anyone is willing to buy clean herbs at a premium, but I have had no problem in selling any back so far. But I do believe other people are also exploiting this, as evidenced by torstol prices.

 

 

 

At level 75 herblore, you gain the ability to clean torstol. It is the highest cleanable herb, and it becomes available as a training method at roughly 9% through the experience points table. And if we check the G.E., we can see the evidence: grimy torstol fetches 300gp more than clean torstol. Torstol is more valuable in its grimy state. Cleaning torstol is a bona fide money loser. People will take a 300gp loss for a 15 xp gain, when they could make 100gp by settling for 1.2xp less per herb with dwarf weed. Thats 3600xp less an hour with dwarf weed, but a 300,000 gp gain rather than a 900,000 gp loss.

 

 

 

While this presents a workaround for training herblore without going broke, it does not address the core problem. Why are potion values stuck at a level that makes herblore a money sink? Would raising the G.E. floors for potions fix things, or merely cause herb and 2nd ingredient prices to [bleep]e in response? Are the G.E. prices for potions truly out of whack, or is there just no demand for these anymore at any price?

 

 

 

I do not have the answers. In a few weeks, I will not care, as I will be donning my herblore skillcape soon. But at some point, Jagex will have to step in and take some steps to repair this broken skill.

[O_M_G_Guasto]

That's quite the wall of text sir.

[xSxqPowerx]

When I train herblore, I do it for speed.

 

 

 

I buy unfinished potions at ridiculously high prices, along with secondaries, and just make the pots at a large loss of money.

 

 

 

Everyone has different priorities.

 

 

 

 

 

To sort of answer your question, I would say that there are enough people like me willing to pay that counter the supply of herbs, and not enough demand for most potions for them to be worth anything.

[Great_one]

That's quite the wall of text sir.

 

A wall with big gaping holes called paragraphs.

 

 

 

it was a good read and very interesting. i personally love the herblore skill, but it is one of my lowest only for the matter that it is such a money sink. Farming the herbs and collecting seconds to sell are still great money makers though.

[Bladewing]

I'm pretty sure that if you run the numbers, it is more efficient to train herblore by making certain potions as opposed to cleaning herbs.

[O_M_G_Guasto]

That's quite the wall of text sir.

 

A wall with big gaping holes called paragraphs.

 

 

 

it was a good read and very interesting. i personally love the herblore skill, but it is one of my lowest only for the matter that it is such a money sink. Farming the herbs and collecting seconds to sell are still great money makers though.

 

Hurrrrr

 

 

 

I'm sure everything he said could be summed up into a single paragraph (or less).

[Great_one]

That's quite the wall of text sir.

 

A wall with big gaping holes called paragraphs.

 

 

 

it was a good read and very interesting. i personally love the herblore skill, but it is one of my lowest only for the matter that it is such a money sink. Farming the herbs and collecting seconds to sell are still great money makers though.

 

Hurrrrr

 

 

 

I'm sure everything he said could be summed up into a single paragraph (or less).

 

but then it would look like wakingdeat wrote it.

[Bladewing]

That's quite the wall of text sir.

 

A wall with big gaping holes called paragraphs.

 

 

 

it was a good read and very interesting. i personally love the herblore skill, but it is one of my lowest only for the matter that it is such a money sink. Farming the herbs and collecting seconds to sell are still great money makers though.

 

Hurrrrr

 

 

 

I'm sure everything he said could be summed up into a single paragraph (or less).

 

but then it would look like wakingdeat wrote it.

 

Funny how he's become so infamous. :thumbup:

[Shelby_Polo]

I'm the kind of guy who farms herbs for Herblore exp, rather than profit.

[baalboy5]

Mind if I copy that graph you made? Im makin a guide :3

[Bladewing]

I'm the kind of guy who farms herbs for Herblore exp, rather than profit.

 

I farm herbs for farming exp, rather than herblore exp.

 

 

 

Oh, by the way, your signature has misspelled Jesus Christ as your

savor

:lol:

[Shelby_Polo]

I'm the kind of guy who farms herbs for Herblore exp, rather than profit.

 

I farm herbs for farming exp, rather than herblore exp.

 

 

 

Oh, by the way, your signature has misspelled Jesus Christ as your

savor

:lol:

 

 

 

Well ya I guess I farm herbs for farming exp too. I meant I use my harvest for Herblore exp rather than profit

 

 

 

and thanks for the spelling correction; as much as I try, I still suck at spelling :wall:

[WyvernWyvern]

Sadly half of the skills are great money sinks along with Herblore.. There needs to besome serious updates and fixes to make these skills more desirable for something other than levels and more for moneymaking.

 

*cough* construction *cough*

[Peronix]

Pretty much the only way you're going to have a profitable potion is to make a potion that is both useful and offers considerably less experience than other potions, to put off the people who prefer to power-level their skills by pouring money into them. It's why runecrafting is profitable: because the finished products are both useful and offer very little experience, thus runecrafting has very slow exp/hour. You can't have good exp and good profit in the same package, it's one or the other (at least after it has become widely known). The problem with many of these production skills is that the finished products offer too much experience, and/or are completely useless.

[pulli23]

Pretty much the only way you're going to have a profitable potion is to make a potion that is both useful and offers considerably less experience than other potions, to put off the people who prefer to power-level their skills by pouring money into them. It's why runecrafting is profitable: because the finished products are both useful and offer very little experience, thus runecrafting has very slow exp/hour. You can't have good exp and good profit in the same package, it's one or the other (at least after it has become widely known). The problem with many of these production skills is that the finished products offer too much experience, and/or are completely useless.

 

 

 

You should "in runescape" to that.

 

 

 

And to say you the truth, I'm still very much wondering how these people get the money to burn on skills.. The money has to come from somewhere......

 

 

 

It's probably just the effect of the enormous amounts of money flowing through the runescape community. (Combined with the fact that people seem not to matter about tiny amounts, making the prices go to either a point of being very profitable to very much a money sink).

[Hajutze]

Hmm I train with magic essence potions ..

 

Goraks arent hard to kill, they are decent combat training, they drop the claws often, they are near a tp to bank, they have other good drops (like half keys and gems.

 

the 2nd is .. practicly free.

[jettrider]

Herblore is unfortunately one of the skills affected worst by somewhat recent updates like GWD and the GE.

 

 

 

With GWD the pattern for maxing RS became crystal clear. Make starting money, train some combat, train range high, use range to get money at boss monsters, buy gear to max melee, get even more money at boss monsters, use that money to buy skills with extra profit from runecraft if needed. This is so simple compared to the challenges of the past that many dozens of people were able to follow it and win. That's why the raw materials are so far in demand.

 

 

 

Now on to the GE. Previously, herblorists would collect herbs, possibly buy unids, and create a massive stock of exp. They would then buy the appropriate seconds and then sell a variety of potions. This meant there was less of each potion but they were all still being made. With the GE, that has become a thing of the past. It is now better to sell everything then calculate the most efficient potion to make. That changes often since the most efficient potion's materials will skyrocket while the potion falls. Occasionally, brews and restores are profitable due to updates, but only if you bought the materials already at lower prices.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, lower level herblorists are jumping at the herbs the high levels won't touch: guam through irit. Guams are the cheapest way of initially leveling herblore. Marrentills are used mainly for altar burning. Tarromins are iffy - Serum 207s are untradable and limpwurts are too expensive to make strength potions feasible. Harralander are okay and restore potions sell, and irits are again a cheap way to level.

 

 

 

So almost every single herb is in high demand, and you can't get herbs in bulk. I run my kingdom with 5 workers on herbs and they only collect a few hundred of each by the time I check it every few months. So the supply is patchy and herbs don't sell for as much as they used to, meaning less people are crowding chaos druids. In addition, the second ingredients are often hard to get and don't offer a lot of profit compared to other moneymaking techniques, so the price is high enough to be irksome to buy yet not worthwhile to collect.

 

 

 

Finally, potions are made in high quantities and needed in low quantities. No one buys thousands of potions at a time (or at least, very few people do and only at a few select times). If your potions sell instantly for the maximum, that means they were going up and being hoarded, not that the particular potion is going profitable again. The supply is numerous and the demand is sketchy - prices plummet.

 

 

 

Here are a couple pictures that should illustrate just how unrealistic herblore is to train with the same methods of past herblorists:

 

 

[lordkafei]

Hmm I train with magic essence potions ..

 

Goraks arent hard to kill, they are decent combat training, they drop the claws often, they are near a tp to bank, they have other good drops (like half keys and gems.

 

the 2nd is .. practicly free.

 

 

 

Yeah, the only expense there is the vials of water. But these are not tradable in the form you describe, so they cannot make a profit. They can break even at best.

 

 

 

Now, if you go the barbarian route and add fish eggs, you can [supposedly] sell them for about 200gp a dose.

 

 

 

What sort of xp/hour do you get? I am betting not 40k.

[Tim]

 

To sort of answer your question, I would say that there are enough people like me willing to pay that counter the supply of herbs.

 

 

 

I rather doubt it, not everyone (or anyone at all) would have over 100-150m to litterally BURN to get their herblore up, let alone 99.

[walka92]

 

To sort of answer your question, I would say that there are enough people like me willing to pay that counter the supply of herbs.

 

 

 

I rather doubt it, not everyone (or anyone at all) would have over 100-150m to litterally BURN to get their herblore up, let alone 99.

 

closer to 200m actually

[zotto]

Excellent opening post. Well written.

 

 

 

I stopped doing herblore at one point when I realized I losing so much money. I was using herbs I was getting with farming and slayer for leveling herblore. So technically I just needed the secondary ingredients, which made herbloring affordable.

 

 

 

When I started selling my herbs instead of using them for leveling herblore my bank account started growing rapidly. Soon I got an SGS, DFS, bandos etc.

 

 

 

I only keep kwuarms and ranarrs at the moment for making pots for my own use.

 

 

 

I still have copious amounts of super att, anti-fire, super def etc.

[InkofDeath]

I rather doubt it, not everyone (or anyone at all) would have over 100-150m to litterally BURN to get their herblore up, let alone 99.

 

I'd say 30% of everyone over 130 combat has at least 80m in coins and 120m in items, at the least. So it's not that far-fetched.

[lordkafei]

I have been assuming that the people who are buying my cleaned herbs are converting them to potions. But for all I know, it could just be a merch clan buying them up and hoarding them.

 

 

 

But I have no problems selling cleaned herbs by the thousands.

[mario_sunny]

Let's just say the herb/potion market is really messed up right now. :|

[pulli23]

The only good way to solve it, is -I think- by making secondaries much more easily gettable. Either as a noted drop from some -slayer- monsters (boss-monster/camp-moster fighters normally don't pick up anything with little value).

 

 

 

Another thing is by making the 2nd also available by farming (or something like that)