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Mod Mat K & Manipulator clans Debate


sadukar123

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You all dont get it. These clans arnt doing anything wrong, its the mechanic of the GE thats broken. Dont hate the players, hate the game.

 

If the GE is broken, then the only solution is to remove free trade entirely. And I don't think any of us want that.

 

 

 

And it doesn't matter if the GE is broken, its still wrong. Its like saying robbing a store wasn't wrong because there was no-one to stop the crime.

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This just makes me want to go the Jagex offices and personally shake each and everyone of their hands, It's these small humorous things done by jagex that makes Runescape so enjoyable. 8-)

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You all dont get it. These clans arnt doing anything wrong, its the mechanic of the GE thats broken. Dont hate the players, hate the game.

 

If the GE is broken, then the only solution is to remove free trade entirely. And I don't think any of us want that.

 

 

 

And it doesn't matter if the GE is broken, its still wrong. Its like saying robbing a store wasn't wrong because there was no-one to stop the crime.

 

 

 

 

 

when did the ge break? i can still buy stuff of it and sell stuff

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You all dont get it. These clans arnt doing anything wrong, its the mechanic of the GE thats broken. Dont hate the players, hate the game.

 

If the GE is broken, then the only solution is to remove free trade entirely. And I don't think any of us want that.

 

 

 

And it doesn't matter if the GE is broken, its still wrong. Its like saying robbing a store wasn't wrong because there was no-one to stop the crime.

 

 

 

 

 

when did the ge break? i can still buy stuff of it and sell stuff

 

 

 

The ge isn't broken, it's flawed. Meaning the system by which the prices of items moves is easy to manipulate.

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I don't like Merch clans either, but am I the only one that wants them to either fix their system, or just allow it to happen. Maybe it's because I'm a die hard capitalist, and I feel that they have intervened enough(with setting trade limits, etc)...

 

 

 

I would enjoy an Amazon/Ebay system much more than their GE system they got going on(one where you search and browse through offers), but that's a whole other subject. Anyway, I feel it's wrong that they try and control the prices manually instead of letting their system do it's work.

 

 

 

That been said, they need to do something, because the roller coaster of up and downs is kind of ridiculous.

 

 

 

EDIT:and like I said, I don't agree with merch clan's, but the way the GE works is well known by Jagex, and they don't consider it a bug, so quit treating it like it's bug abuse, these people are just taking advantage of the flaws that Jagex refuses to fix.

 

 

 

And to the poster who posted about a new update and not being able to train skills because the merchanter's bought out the GE, 2 years ago(and for all the years before that), that was considered marketing strategy. That's simple economics, not abuse. If I had a large sum of cash, and Jagex made pretty clear that a new update would probably require a certain raw material, I stocked up on that material. You're telling me you wouldn't as well?

 

 

 

I feel that if enough players start becoming the fat cats of these merchanting clan's, then eventually it will create competitive pricing, and get rid of the monopolies. So quit screaming for Jagex intervention, because I would put money down that their changes would piss you off more than fluctuating prices and frozen markets(which have existed in this game damn near since the start)

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I don't like Merch clans either, but am I the only one that wants them to either fix their system, or just allow it to happen. Maybe it's because I'm a die hard capitalist, and I feel that they have intervened enough(with setting trade limits, etc)...

 

 

 

I would enjoy an Amazon/Ebay system much more than their GE system they got going on(one where you search and browse through offers), but that's a whole other subject. Anyway, I feel it's wrong that they try and control the prices manually instead of letting their system do it's work.

 

 

 

That been said, they need to do something, because the roller coaster of up and downs is kind of ridiculous.

 

 

 

Originally when the ge was first announced before its release I thought it would be something like you suggested. That seems to be a more viable method, however there is still the question of rwt. I'm sure we could recognize some system to prevent rwt, that might take awhile though. Staying on-topic, I think the only reason they are manually controlling prices right now is as a temporary fix that will later be surpassed by a full on update. Jagex seems to have noticed just how much the clans affect the actions of a daily scaper and that it just ruins the experience, causing many people to be scared to buy items.

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I don't like Merch clans either, but am I the only one that wants them to either fix their system, or just allow it to happen. Maybe it's because I'm a die hard capitalist, and I feel that they have intervened enough(with setting trade limits, etc)...

 

 

 

I would enjoy an Amazon/Ebay system much more than their GE system they got going on(one where you search and browse through offers), but that's a whole other subject. Anyway, I feel it's wrong that they try and control the prices manually instead of letting their system do it's work.

 

 

 

That been said, they need to do something, because the roller coaster of up and downs is kind of ridiculous.

 

 

 

Originally when the ge was first announced before its release I thought it would be something like you suggested. That seems to be a more viable method, however there is still the question of rwt. I'm sure we could recognize some system to prevent rwt, that might take awhile though. Staying on-topic, I think the only reason they are manually controlling prices right now is as a temporary fix that will later be surpassed by a full on update. Jagex seems to have noticed just how much the clans affect the actions of a daily scaper and that it just ruins the experience, causing many people to be scared to buy items.

 

 

 

How does it destroy it? - You've got like a possible bank full of items you can use instead of using the ge, and wait till the manipulator clans have done their stuff and the price has settled back...

First they came to fishing

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

 

Then they came to the yews

and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

 

Then they came for the ores

and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

 

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

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:D

 

 

 

If price manipulation is against rules theres quite a lot of bannable people there

 

 

 

06-Jun-2009 00:33:06

 

WE THE PEOPLE MAKE YOU MONEY JAGEX.

 

WE THE PEOPLE LIKE TO MERCHANT JAGEX.

 

WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE REASONS WHY YOU HAVE JOBS JAGEX.

 

WE THE PEOPLE WANT TO KEEP OUR PRICE MANIPULATION CLANS JAGEX!

 

 

Fail logic on that guy on RSOF, lol. Merchanting class represents the minority upsetting the masses.

[Summoning guide (AOW)] [Slayer guide] [Melee & Brawl player]

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I don't like Merch clans either, but am I the only one that wants them to either fix their system, or just allow it to happen. Maybe it's because I'm a die hard capitalist, and I feel that they have intervened enough(with setting trade limits, etc)...

 

 

 

I would enjoy an Amazon/Ebay system much more than their GE system they got going on(one where you search and browse through offers), but that's a whole other subject. Anyway, I feel it's wrong that they try and control the prices manually instead of letting their system do it's work.

 

 

 

That been said, they need to do something, because the roller coaster of up and downs is kind of ridiculous.

 

 

 

Originally when the ge was first announced before its release I thought it would be something like you suggested. That seems to be a more viable method, however there is still the question of rwt. I'm sure we could recognize some system to prevent rwt, that might take awhile though. Staying on-topic, I think the only reason they are manually controlling prices right now is as a temporary fix that will later be surpassed by a full on update. Jagex seems to have noticed just how much the clans affect the actions of a daily scaper and that it just ruins the experience, causing many people to be scared to buy items.

 

 

 

How does it destroy it? - You've got like a possible bank full of items you can use instead of using the ge, and wait till the manipulator clans have done their stuff and the price has settled back...

 

 

 

As an active player of Runescape, I'm in constant need of items and experience, my actions fluctuate in game, I need items and supplies to reflect these fluctuations. For example say i'm going to gwd and I am out of prayer pots. I go to the ge and try to buy some prayer pots but low and behold they are being merched and won't sell on the ge unless I wait several hours. This hinders my gwd trip setting it back and sometimes not allowing me to even do it at all. Do you know the frustration of not being able to do what you should be able to do and want to do just because of these idiotic merchanters who in my opinion should be banned?

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I don't like Merch clans either, but am I the only one that wants them to either fix their system, or just allow it to happen. Maybe it's because I'm a die hard capitalist, and I feel that they have intervened enough(with setting trade limits, etc)...

 

 

 

I would enjoy an Amazon/Ebay system much more than their GE system they got going on(one where you search and browse through offers), but that's a whole other subject. Anyway, I feel it's wrong that they try and control the prices manually instead of letting their system do it's work.

 

 

 

That been said, they need to do something, because the roller coaster of up and downs is kind of ridiculous.

 

 

 

Originally when the ge was first announced before its release I thought it would be something like you suggested. That seems to be a more viable method, however there is still the question of rwt. I'm sure we could recognize some system to prevent rwt, that might take awhile though. Staying on-topic, I think the only reason they are manually controlling prices right now is as a temporary fix that will later be surpassed by a full on update. Jagex seems to have noticed just how much the clans affect the actions of a daily scaper and that it just ruins the experience, causing many people to be scared to buy items.

 

 

 

How does it destroy it? - You've got like a possible bank full of items you can use instead of using the ge, and wait till the manipulator clans have done their stuff and the price has settled back...

 

 

 

As an active player of Runescape, I'm in constant need of items and experience, my actions fluctuate in game, I need items and supplies to reflect these fluctuations. For example say i'm going to gwd and I am out of prayer pots. I go to the ge and try to buy some prayer pots but low and behold they are being merched and won't sell on the ge unless I wait several hours. This hinders my gwd trip setting it back and sometimes not allowing me to even do it at all. Do youknow the frustration of not being able to do what you should be able to do and want to do?

 

 

 

Uhm make sure you have at least a month's supply from everything? - That's the first lesson you should learn from that frustration (and frankly, it will prevent the frustration in the future)..

 

 

 

I once had a similar thing with ring of lifes (who thought I ever needed some) - Now I just decided to not take my chances and just buy 10k from them (if it turns under 5k I'll buy back to 10K).. Similar for everything else: apart from the very specific things just make sure you have like a months suply+1. (always need to have something at least twice)...

 

Reallly before the ge you had to spent ages buying the items you would need (if they weren't very comon) - so you would actually make sure you have a months supply of everything. Why can't you do it now anymore?

First they came to fishing

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

 

Then they came to the yews

and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

 

Then they came for the ores

and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

 

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

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I cant help but shake my head at the blatant hate towards merchant clans on these forums.

 

 

 

it's not a free market where players decide prices, its a market with cap's on items that fluctuate based on trading demand - You cannot cap a price on every item and force people to sell them for that, they can horde the items as I do, crippling the economy in essence. I horde almost all of my raw materials because I dont like the current prices.

 

 

 

Jagex removed burnt items because of "RWT" abuse. People like myself collected them and 10-20 gp per burnt fish was still worth it to me. :P

 

 

 

So the market we have is a very bad market in numerous ways. I've hated the GE and it's one world market for 160+ servers since day one, and will continue to hate it.

 

 

 

I want a free open market.

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

Abraham Lincoln

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I am supposed to keep a month supply of everything.....some people can't afford that. personaly I go through about 3-4 mil worth of pray pots a month alone. I am supposed to keep that much worth of prayer pots as well as everything else..... I don't usually have that much cash lying around.

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I don't like Merch clans either, but am I the only one that wants them to either fix their system, or just allow it to happen. Maybe it's because I'm a die hard capitalist, and I feel that they have intervened enough(with setting trade limits, etc)...

 

 

 

I would enjoy an Amazon/Ebay system much more than their GE system they got going on(one where you search and browse through offers), but that's a whole other subject. Anyway, I feel it's wrong that they try and control the prices manually instead of letting their system do it's work.

 

 

 

That been said, they need to do something, because the roller coaster of up and downs is kind of ridiculous.

 

 

 

Originally when the ge was first announced before its release I thought it would be something like you suggested. That seems to be a more viable method, however there is still the question of rwt. I'm sure we could recognize some system to prevent rwt, that might take awhile though. Staying on-topic, I think the only reason they are manually controlling prices right now is as a temporary fix that will later be surpassed by a full on update. Jagex seems to have noticed just how much the clans affect the actions of a daily scaper and that it just ruins the experience, causing many people to be scared to buy items.

 

 

 

How does it destroy it? - You've got like a possible bank full of items you can use instead of using the ge, and wait till the manipulator clans have done their stuff and the price has settled back...

 

 

 

As an active player of Runescape, I'm in constant need of items and experience, my actions fluctuate in game, I need items and supplies to reflect these fluctuations. For example say i'm going to gwd and I am out of prayer pots. I go to the ge and try to buy some prayer pots but low and behold they are being merched and won't sell on the ge unless I wait several hours. This hinders my gwd trip setting it back and sometimes not allowing me to even do it at all. Do youknow the frustration of not being able to do what you should be able to do and want to do?

 

 

 

Uhm make sure you have at least a month's supply from everything? - That's the first lesson you should learn from that frustration (and frankly, it will prevent the frustration in the future)..

 

 

 

I once had a similar thing with ring of lifes (who thought I ever needed some) - Now I just decided to not take my chances and just buy 10k from them (if it turns under 5k I'll buy back to 10K).. Similar for everything else: apart from the very specific things just make sure you have like a months suply+1. (always need to have something at least twice)...

 

Reallly before the ge you had to spent ages buying the items you would need (if they weren't very comon) - so you would actually make sure you have a months supply of everything. Why can't you do it now anymore?

 

 

 

I could very well do that and infact do sometimes, however a majority of players don't like to buy excess supplies of which they might not even use, therefore using up their income on pointless stocking up of items when they want to be using that money towards other things. You don't represent the population of runescape, therefore you cannot suggest something like that.

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Just remember, we still do not know if Jagex did intervene. I applaud them if they did, though.

 

 

 

And really, if you guys haven't personally checked out the thread.. Mod Mat K is hilarious.

Nemo vir est qui mundum non reddat meliorem..

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Just remember, we still do not know if Jagex did intervene. I applaud them if they did, though.

 

 

 

And really, if you guys haven't personally checked out the thread.. Mod Mat K is hilarious.

 

 

 

 

 

Funny to you is not cool to me, What was done defies GE logic.

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

Abraham Lincoln

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Just remember, we still do not know if Jagex did intervene. I applaud them if they did, though.

 

 

 

And really, if you guys haven't personally checked out the thread.. Mod Mat K is hilarious.

 

 

 

 

 

Funny to you is not cool to me, What was done defies GE logic.

 

 

 

Grand Exchange was put in place by Jagex not to be manipulated by a few to upset many.

Nemo vir est qui mundum non reddat meliorem..

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I am supposed to keep a month supply of everything.....some people can't afford that. personaly I go through about 3-4 mil worth of pray pots a month alone. I am supposed to keep that much worth of prayer pots as well as everything else..... I don't usually have that much cash lying around.

 

Uhm sorry, but if you use a lot of money each month that means you also make a lot of money each month: try a month to not spend ANYTHING yet do the rest of your stuff.... - You should actually have a spare month now...

First they came to fishing

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

 

Then they came to the yews

and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

 

Then they came for the ores

and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

 

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

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I think it is almost certain that jagex did play a part in these events, and I couldn't be happier. Maybe these clans will stop ruining the experience for hundreds of thousands of players because they are to lazy to earn cash in a fair way.

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I don't see what the fuss is all about. I doubt Jagex is manipulating prices. They have created a GE system which some understand well and use to their advantage. These clans do what they want to do, and I'm sure Jagex won't bring a rule to ban Merchanting clans. I'm not too bothered really.

 

 

 

But of course, it would be pretty cool if someone like MMG is sitting at home and clicking a down arrow to make things cheaper \'

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I am supposed to keep a month supply of everything.....some people can't afford that. personaly I go through about 3-4 mil worth of pray pots a month alone. I am supposed to keep that much worth of prayer pots as well as everything else..... I don't usually have that much cash lying around.

 

Uhm sorry, but if you use a lot of money each month that means you also make a lot of money each month: try a month to not spend ANYTHING yet do the rest of your stuff.... - You should actually have a spare month now...

 

 

 

How do you propose I do that...do you want me to skip every slayer task where I use a cannon, prayer potions or other expensive things like barrows repair, familiar pouches and scrolls. The point I'm trying to make is that I should be able to play the way I want. I shouldn't have to conform to the boundries set in place by these people who think they are special enough to be able to ruin the gaming experience for everybody but themselves....

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I am supposed to keep a month supply of everything.....some people can't afford that. personaly I go through about 3-4 mil worth of pray pots a month alone. I am supposed to keep that much worth of prayer pots as well as everything else..... I don't usually have that much cash lying around.

 

 

 

Then you should join a merchant clan...

 

 

 

btw, it's not like everyone makes easy money...it is very risky, and it brings back an aspect of the game that was around a lot longer than the GE. This can be argued with botting has been around longer than the GE, so please don't bring up that argument, as they are completely different.

 

 

 

Also, I am going to say to hell if Jagex didn't [bleep] with those prices. Someone who dumps early, is going to dump for the max they can get, and definitely wouldn't be dumping for min, which is the only thing that would cause a change in price like that one. The prices don't start to fluctuate until people began to notice, and even then it happens progressively, not suddenly.

 

 

 

Btw, before you get the wrong idea, I don't belong to these merchanting clans, only because I don't watch the game enough to be able to take advantage and I don't have the money to invest in them. So my opinion is completely non-biased.

 

 

 

I am supposed to keep a month supply of everything.....some people can't afford that. personaly I go through about 3-4 mil worth of pray pots a month alone. I am supposed to keep that much worth of prayer pots as well as everything else..... I don't usually have that much cash lying around.

 

Uhm sorry, but if you use a lot of money each month that means you also make a lot of money each month: try a month to not spend ANYTHING yet do the rest of your stuff.... - You should actually have a spare month now...

 

 

 

How do you propose I do that...do you want me to skip every slayer task where I use a cannon, prayer potions or other expensive things like barrows repair, familiar pouches and scrolls. The point I'm trying to make is that I should be able to play the way I want. I shouldn't have to conform to the boundries set in place by these people who think they are special enough to be able to ruin the gaming experience for everybody but themselves....

 

 

 

This makes me laugh because of the irony behind the statement. Lets see if I can try to get you to see the picture:

 

 

 

First, everyone on this side of the argument, quit acting like merchanting clans are a minority. I don't know the statistics, but it seems like in able to get the prices to fluctuate like they do, they would have to be quite a large group of persons.

 

 

 

Second, you're complaining about the fact these people control the way you play the game, and you propose Jagex fix it by controlling the way they play the game. Wait, huh?...

 

 

 

Like I stated before, if Jagex's system represents a real market, then eventually enough of these "investors" will take a slice of the pie, which will cause competition, and cause prices to begin to balance. However, if Jagex intervenes, it becomes more socialist than it already is, and the government(Jagex) will have all sorts of limitations on trade, which will ruin the game for many, which is what you're arguing the current system does. Therefore, your being an hypocrite. And yes, Jagex intervening in ways like Mod K did(and he did) will ruin the economy because it will cause people to be lose their confidence in the value of their money, which was the cause of: The Great Depression! So as you can see, you need to just wait for the system to either correct itself, or by Jagex in a way that doesn't ruin free trade.

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Just remember, we still do not know if Jagex did intervene. I applaud them if they did, though.

 

 

 

And really, if you guys haven't personally checked out the thread.. Mod Mat K is hilarious.

 

 

 

 

 

Funny to you is not cool to me, What was done defies GE logic.

 

 

 

Grand Exchange was put in place by Jagex not to be manipulated by a few to upset many.

 

 

 

 

 

t was put into place to stop RWT. It achieved that.

 

 

 

The irony is, it made it much easier for trading to be abused before as you couldn't facelessly buy out tons of one good and cause prices to skyrocket.

 

However Capitalism was deemed inappropriate so I have no issues with people with money, using it to buy an item in hopes to resale it for a profit.

 

 

 

I'm surprised a merchanting clan makes the secret investment public in the clan chat anyway.

 

 

 

Now on a non related economics note, I miss the "Ruined" economy macro prices where everyone could level and profit by alching. But hey thats me

 

 

 

I should be able to put my money into items with the sole intention of being able to sell them later for a profit. After all, If my GP is sitting in my bank, it's doing me no good.

 

 

 

Do any of you guys sell/buy stocks who are complaining?

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

Abraham Lincoln

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